Free Radical just got dropped

Thats terrible, Timesplitters 1 was my first PS2 game that I got at the time and I still have it today and its still great. So are the other two and whats worse is that its by birthday today and my favourite company closed down on this day:(

How very sad it had to happen, I hope we can still get TS4.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

I would never spin someone losing their job as a good thing. I even state as such in my post.

I've already stated my reason for my distaste for the Timesplitters series. I was used to something better and even with Timesplitters being an arcade shooter, I still feel it wasn't very good. It is unfortunate that people lost their jobs but as a studio they failed to make any real impact and then they went and made a really stupid business decision that cost them. It happens and I hope everyone lands on their feet and can move on to make better games. The Timesplitters games were archaic even back then which is why games like Halo, Medal of Honor and COD came out and had more success. They were just better games, PERIOD.

organic_machine

I can understand why you didn't like them, but don't be so audacious as to say that they were "better, PERIOD." Honestly, the TS series offered me something no other FPS has offered to date. Can you list me any FPS where I can CREATE a match with everyone using only throwing bricks? No? Well then, you can see why I like the TS series: it offered me unique gameplay that I can find nowhere else. If you don't like it, that is perfectly reasonable. But do not go so far as to claim one is "better." The only reason one might be "better" is in terms of production values.

I remember playing a level were you were running around a house where everything was normal scale but you were the size of a mouse.

Well, I hope they go back to Rare. Instead of having two developers making great games, join forces again and make fantastic games!FrozenLiquid

Just because you can make maps where people can only use bricks doesn't make it better either. I'm not interested in throwing bricks when I'm buying an FPS, I just want a good shooter. If it brings other stuff to the table then that's fine. And Unreal Tournament was offering up some amazing mods at the time.

I remember playing a level were you were running around a house where everything was normal scale but you were the size of a mouse.

heretrix

Why are you continuing to combine subjective arguments with factual ones. You are throwing around the term "better" as if it were fact. And you deliberately misinterpreted my reasoning. I don't like TS because you can throw bricks. I like it because it offers me an experience I can have nowhere else. And, also, you are bringing up mods? I am not talking about PC gaming here.

You say you are interested in the core more so than the content. That is reasonable. It's neither better nor worse reasoning than any other. I prefer depth in content over the core. My reasoning is neither better nor worse than yours.

My point is that you ought to STOP trying to argue that one reasoning is better.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

Just because you can make maps where people can only use bricks doesn't make it better either. I'm not interested in throwing bricks when I'm buying an FPS, I just want a good shooter. If it brings other stuff to the table then that's fine. And Unreal Tournament was offering up some amazing mods at the time.

I remember playing a level were you were running around a house where everything was normal scale but you were the size of a mouse.

organic_machine

My point is that you ought to STOP trying to argue that one reasoning is better.

That sucks. They made a very fun series.

[QUOTE="organic_machine"][QUOTE="heretrix"]

Just because you can make maps where people can only use bricks doesn't make it better either. I'm not interested in throwing bricks when I'm buying an FPS, I just want a good shooter. If it brings other stuff to the table then that's fine. And Unreal Tournament was offering up some amazing mods at the time.

I remember playing a level were you were running around a house where everything was normal scale but you were the size of a mouse.

heretrix

My point is that you ought to STOP trying to argue that one reasoning is better.

Wow. Just Wow.

:|

Your avatar looks like Samuel L. Jackson!

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

It's as simple as this. The direction for HD gaming requires more money to develop for since many of these companies want to be like Hollywood with their big budget movies. Games on the 360 and PS3 are requiring bigger and bigger budgets with some being twice as much as the budget for last gen's AAA games. That's why these companies are closing and flopping so hard.

Teufelhuhn

No one is saying that any dev should ignore the PS3 or 360. Where did I make that argument? I'm saying that having big budgets that are twice as big as the AAA budgets of last gen is not a healthy way to grow the gaming industry. You can argue about the poor quality of those games, but what about games like Mirror's Edge and Dead Space that earned high quality reviews? These games didn't sell that well and EA has come out and said that they are scaling back their forecasts for the fiscal quarter as a result. The current gen business model is broken if companies are required to sell 500,000 to 1 million to break even. That doesn't leave a lot of room for failure on their part.

First of all, it sucks when a company goes under, and it's also an extra slap in the face considering it's the holiday season. Hopefully the men and women from this studio go on to find jobs in development.

With that said, Free Radical made on of the worst business decisions this generation. They took Haze, a new unproven IP, as well as ANOTHER FPS, and made it exclusive on the PS3. The PS3 then (and still arguably now) had such a limited install base and it's reputation in the gutter, and the game sold like crap, regardless of what you think of it's quality AND while having a big marketing push. The whole Haze exclusiveness and the game itself was just a bad decision.

First of all, it sucks when a company goes under, and it's also an extra slap in the face considering it's the holiday season. Hopefully the men and women from this studio go on to find jobs in development.

With that said, Free Radical made on of the worst business decisions this generation. They took Haze, a new unproven IP, as well as ANOTHER FPS, and made it exclusive on the PS3. The PS3 then (and still arguably now) had such a limited install base and it's reputation in the gutter, and the game sold like crap, regardless of what you think of it's quality AND while having a big marketing push. The whole Haze exclusiveness and the game itself was just a bad decision.

ZeldaMaster32

Yeah, it was on 360 and PC at 1st.mitu123

And then they made it exclusive on the "worst" platform at the time. Not smart.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]Yeah, it was on 360 and PC at 1st.ZeldaMaster32

And then they made it exclusive on the "worst" platform at the time. Not smart.

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="organic_machine"]

My point is that you ought to STOP trying to argue that one reasoning is better.

FrozenLiquid

Wow. Just Wow.

:|

Your avatar looks like Samuel L. Jackson!

[QUOTE="ZeldaMaster32"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]Yeah, it was on 360 and PC at 1st.mitu123

And then they made it exclusive on the "worst" platform at the time. Not smart.

Tell the truth though lemmings you guys got Halo 3, Gears, COD4, Bad Company and a bunch of other stuff on your system. Are you seriously telling me that any of you would look twice at Haze?MarloStanfield

Nope. I actually can't stand FPSs, I only buy some of them because that's what my friends like to play and I don't want to be left out. If I'm not playing with friends, I get bored to death. The only exceptions are slower, more deliberate shooters like Bioshock, where I have some control over my environment and don't need to be fast paced.

And I'm not a fanboy of any manufacturer. Only Rare.:|

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

Yeah, but with FR we got Timesplitters, Timsplittters 2 and Timesplitters Future Perferct, three of the best FPS games ever made. Now we wont see a real sequel :(. I would rather have TS over an old throwback to the days of the N64. TS was just something else, a truely addictive multiplayer and great sense of humour that would keep you playing for days, even against bots.

Giancar

Three of the best FPS ever made LOL? Don't make me laugh. You look at the FPS games that came out along side each installment of Time Splitters and you will see how truely average the game was. For every Time Splitters game that came out there were alqays a good amount of FPS in that year that were better.

Um the Mega Man series is still going strong my friend. Remember Mega Man 9? Yeah that game was good. Mega Man ZX was a very good game as well. The ability to use Harupuia, Phantom, Fefnir, and Leviathan in ZX combinations makes the gameplay drastically more resourceful compared to past games. Mega Man ZX Advent was even better. Starring a new character unrelated to any Dr. Light creation. With the ability to A-Trans not only do you have the ability to copy other Biometal users but the Psuedoroids as well totaling to about what 12 different transformations you can use to play the game. GS's review was pretty funny though. They thought the game was too hard when it had an easy mode and they said the second game had the same story of the first game yet it had a different main character, boss, competing Mega Men, lots of plot twists, and new holders of the biometals with the addition of the Game of Destiny. The main line of Mega Man games continue to go strong. I jsut started playing the ZX series right now and all I can say is where the hell is the 3rd one.

TimeSplitters 1 = 2000

1. Quake 3 Arena
2. Soldier of Fortune
3. No One Lives Forever
4. Star Trek Voyager
5. Rouge Spear
6. Unreal Tournament
7. Perfect Dark
8. Counter Strike

TimeSplitters 2 = 2002

1. Battle Field 1942
2. No One Lives Forever 2
3. Unreal 2003
4. Medal of Honor Allied Assault
5. Ghost Recon
6. 007 Night Fire
7. Serious Sam
8. Operation Flash Point
9. Soldier of Fortune 2
10. Jedi Outcast 2
11. Medal of Honor Fro =ntline

TimeSplitters 3 =2005

1. Battle Field 2
2. COD 2
3. FEAR
4. Doom 3
5. Half Life 2
6. Far Cry Inctincts
7. Brothers In Arms
8. Swat 4
9. Perfect Dark 0
10. Day of Defeat Source

While yes it sucks that Free Radical is gone the TimeSplitters series has always been overrated and over apprecited imo

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="ZeldaMaster32"]

And then they made it exclusive on the "worst" platform at the time. Not smart.

MarloStanfield

If it had been good, yes. The_Game21x

TimeSplitters 1 = 2000

1. Quake 3 Arena
2. Soldier of Fortune
3. No One Lives Forever
4. Star Trek Voyager
5. Rouge Spear
6. Unreal Tournament
7. Perfect Dark
8. Counter Strike

TimeSplitters 2 = 2002

1. Battle Field 1942
2. No One Lives Forever 2
3. Unreal 2003
4. Medal of Honor Allied Assault
5. Ghost Recon
6. 007 Night Fire
7. Serious Sam
8. Operation Flash Point
9. Soldier of Fortune 2
10. Jedi Outcast 2
11. Medal of Honor Fro =ntline

TimeSplitters 3 =2005

1. Battle Field 2
2. COD 2
3. FEAR
4. Doom 3
5. Half Life 2
6. Far Cry Inctincts
7. Brothers In Arms
8. Swat 4
9. Perfect Dark 0
10. Day of Defeat Source

While yes it sucks that Free Radical is gone the TimeSplitters series has always been overrated and over apprecited imo

Blackbond

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"] If it had been good, yes. MarloStanfield

TimeSplitters 1 = 2000

1. Quake 3 Arena
2. Soldier of Fortune
3. No One Lives Forever
4. Star Trek Voyager
5. Rouge Spear
6. Unreal Tournament
7. Perfect Dark
8. Counter Strike

TimeSplitters 2 = 2002

1. Battle Field 1942
2. No One Lives Forever 2
3. Unreal 2003
4. Medal of Honor Allied Assault
5. Ghost Recon
6. 007 Night Fire
7. Serious Sam
8. Operation Flash Point
9. Soldier of Fortune 2
10. Jedi Outcast 2
11. Medal of Honor Fro =ntline

TimeSplitters 3 =2005

1. Battle Field 2
2. COD 2
3. FEAR
4. Doom 3
5. Half Life 2
6. Far Cry Inctincts
7. Brothers In Arms
8. Swat 4
9. Perfect Dark 0
10. Day of Defeat Source

While yes it sucks that Free Radical is gone the TimeSplitters series has always been overrated and over apprecited imo

Blackbond

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

TimeSplitters 1 = 2000

1. Quake 3 Arena
2. Soldier of Fortune
3. No One Lives Forever
4. Star Trek Voyager
5. Rouge Spear
6. Unreal Tournament
7. Perfect Dark
8. Counter Strike

TimeSplitters 2 = 2002

1. Battle Field 1942
2. No One Lives Forever 2
3. Unreal 2003
4. Medal of Honor Allied Assault
5. Ghost Recon
6. 007 Night Fire
7. Serious Sam
8. Operation Flash Point
9. Soldier of Fortune 2
10. Jedi Outcast 2
11. Medal of Honor Fro =ntline

TimeSplitters 3 =2005

1. Battle Field 2
2. COD 2
3. FEAR
4. Doom 3
5. Half Life 2
6. Far Cry Inctincts
7. Brothers In Arms
8. Swat 4
9. Perfect Dark 0
10. Day of Defeat Source

While yes it sucks that Free Radical is gone the TimeSplitters series has always been overrated and over apprecited imo

mitu123

What does GS's opinion have to do with BlackBond's opinion?

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

TimeSplitters 1 = 2000

1. Quake 3 Arena
2. Soldier of Fortune
3. No One Lives Forever
4. Star Trek Voyager
5. Rouge Spear
6. Unreal Tournament
7. Perfect Dark
8. Counter Strike

TimeSplitters 2 = 2002

1. Battle Field 1942
2. No One Lives Forever 2
3. Unreal 2003
4. Medal of Honor Allied Assault
5. Ghost Recon
6. 007 Night Fire
7. Serious Sam
8. Operation Flash Point
9. Soldier of Fortune 2
10. Jedi Outcast 2
11. Medal of Honor Fro =ntline

TimeSplitters 3 =2005

1. Battle Field 2
2. COD 2
3. FEAR
4. Doom 3
5. Half Life 2
6. Far Cry Inctincts
7. Brothers In Arms
8. Swat 4
9. Perfect Dark 0
10. Day of Defeat Source

While yes it sucks that Free Radical is gone the TimeSplitters series has always been overrated and over apprecited imo

Blackbond

What does GS's opinion have to do with BlackBond's opinion?

:o Im really really sad and shocked of the news, I hope those 180 find jobs asap.

and why are publishers are too harsh? the TS series is highly praised and popular, why didn't they give them a second chance with TS4?

I want official press release to know the whole story, I want to know what their next step after this :(

TimeSplitters 1 = 2000

1. Quake 3 Arena
2. Soldier of Fortune
3. No One Lives Forever
4. Star Trek Voyager
5. Rouge Spear
6. Unreal Tournament
7. Perfect Dark
8. Counter Strike

TimeSplitters 2 = 2002

1. Battle Field 1942
2. No One Lives Forever 2
3. Unreal 2003
4. Medal of Honor Allied Assault
5. Ghost Recon
6. 007 Night Fire
7. Serious Sam
8. Operation Flash Point
9. Soldier of Fortune 2
10. Jedi Outcast 2
11. Medal of Honor Fro =ntline

TimeSplitters 3 =2005

1. Battle Field 2
2. COD 2
3. FEAR
4. Doom 3
5. Half Life 2
6. Far Cry Inctincts
7. Brothers In Arms
8. Swat 4
9. Perfect Dark 0
10. Day of Defeat Source

While yes it sucks that Free Radical is gone the TimeSplitters series has always been overrated and over apprecited imo

Blackbond

Alot of people don't agree with you including me, the TS series is underrated and under appreciated imho.

there are fans here in this very thread and you are bringing unrelated stuff to the situation.

it is like you are waiting for this moment to make the list or something :P

Respect the fans :x

Well Free Radical was responsible for the Cryme Tyme .gifs LOLBlackbond

But that's EXACTLY what you are doing. You want me to believe that your "better" is better than my "better".heretrix

No, I wasn't. You're making things up. I never once told you that you were wrong. My FIRST statement was that I understand why you have that opinion. My main goal in responding was to ask that you seperate opinion from fact and now your rebuttal is accusing me of commiting the same sin. I thought it would have been easier for you to do that if I shared my opinion so that you could see WHY I thought the way I did. That was supposed to make the discussion easier. But I guess that's too reasonable for you. Whatever man. I tried to have a legitimate discussion and you resorted to pointing the finger.

Did not see this coming, cos even Haze has sold about 500K so why would they close? Or better yet what is going to happen to TS4.St_muscat

500K is enough for the PS2 and the Wii to earn a good deal of profit, but it's not NEARLY enough for the HD twins, espeically the PS3 where development cost is through the roof + promotional costs.

500K for the HD twins barely covers up the development cost (slightly more for the PS3), but it doesn't includ the licensing fees and promotional costs, which can run you another 500K units sold needed minimum! You need to sell 1 million sold min. just to make a profit on some projects and I doubt anything is different for Haze! This is why LBP sales are dangerous! At this rate, it will dangerously put the development company in the red like Haze and LBP is infinitly a better game than Haze!

And that's the thing, the HD development business model is broken! This type of thing is not sustaninable! You can't as a developer to folk over THAT kind of money on development cost + licensing fee + promotional cost and expect them to earn profit! Even the larger companies, EA and THQ also closed down some studios and laid-off some people. EA is special example! This year, their revenue has GONE UP, but in the end, they still made a huge lose on their earnings! Burnout, Dead Space, and Mirrior Edge all failed business wise, making a ton of loses for the company! Your business model is broken when it is required that you put 70-80% of your cash into developing for the HD twins! You are just ONE game away from stepping all over in red, ala Free Radicals!

[QUOTE="Theempire30"]Oh god, please dont ruin SWBF3.MarloStanfield

[QUOTE="Zhengi"] Yeah, totally agree. The business model is broken.MarloStanfield

I think it's probably more than that (unless Sony money hated them), also, throw in some promotional costs and stuff, and the money could easily DOUBLE! that's why I agree with Zhengi, the HD business model is broke! You can't ask developers to toss in so much money, then to sell min. 1 million copies to make a buck....Companies can't work that way!

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
More so with them developing a game they are not used to and depending on it to sell well given the large budget. The same would have been for any console, HD or not. The only way they could have avoided the financial problems caused by Haze would have been to make a shovelware game for the Wii... and Free Radical has the dignity not to do that.

They went and made a game they weren't used to. It wasn't Timesplitters, Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, so obviously it was going to fail. I said that ever since I first saw footage.Zhengi

I know he's trolling the Wii, but that just shows he has no idea how business is going on in the gaming industry. Shovelware isn't selling on the Wii and even if it were, it would not cover the costs of an HD bomb like Haze. HD development costs are just too high and any model advocating selling 500,000 to 1 million to break even is a bad, broken model. There will certainly be hits like Gears of War, Metal Gear Solid 4, and other games, but then you also get games like Haze, Too Human, Lair, Dead Space, and Mirror's Edge. All those big budget bombs are killing off these devs.

To give you a different perspective on things....

Now lemmings is all about, "OMG!!!! Look at how much million sellers on the X360! OMG! It's the good! OMG, you are earning MASSIVE $$$$! OMG 3rd party are the happy! OMG!!! I'm gonna cum!!!"

but look at it from the flip side, if you know you need to sell 1 million to earn a profit, what would be your reaction, probably something like this:

"Only 46 games sold 1 million out of how many games!!!! HOLY SHYT!!! The chances of success is THAT LOW! You are asking me to spend TAHT much money with no gurantee of success? Why am I doing this?!?!?!?!?"

This is the biggest reason why so many companies are folding! You have to bring that units sold = success lower or else!

bumping this thread because some Timesplitters 4 artwork just got released by one of the former employees. Enjoy!