G4TV: Opening The Valve, Gabe Newell Interview (MUST READ)

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696431/Opening-The-Valve-The-Gabe-Newell-Interview.html

G4: So, last time we talked at Leipzig, I had asked you why there would be no Left 4 Dead on PS3 and you said because Valve, itself, wasn't big enough to yet support PS3 development in-house. Is that still the case why Left 4 Dead 2 is not announced for the PS3?

Newell: Yes. We haven't done a good job of taking care of our PS3 customers at all for the existing Orange Box customers, and that is very frustrating to me personally. Until we can do a better job than we have, I'm sort of hesitant to go back and screw them again. So, I want to make sure when we have customers on the PS3 they don't end up in the sort of second ****citizen that I feel that they've been by what we did originally with the Orange Box.

:shock:

Hopefully he'll show more love!

LoL BS.Brownesque

I know right?! :lol: I can't believe that Gabe Newell is actually saying this!

hes been reading the hate on these boards......hopefully he will know better now....Supa__Mario

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/09/23/newell-says-valve-needs-to-invest-in-ps3-development/

I wish they would release Episode 3 on the PS3 and actually make it themselves lots of offense to EA. The only reason I wish they would is I would probably have to upgrade my PC because it can barely run TF2 and I would hope that they update the source engine a little for Ep. 3.

They really just need to release some info on Ep. 3 in general.

I really can't belive Gabe said that though.

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/09/23/newell-says-valve-needs-to-invest-in-ps3-development/

mD-

[QUOTE="mD-"]

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/09/23/newell-says-valve-needs-to-invest-in-ps3-development/

Supa__Mario

I wish they would release Episode 3 on the PS3 and actually make it themselves lots of offense to EA. The only reason I wish they would is I would probably have to upgrade my PC because it can barely run TF2 and I would hope that they update the source engine a little for Ep. 3.

They really just need to release some info on Ep. 3 in general.

I really can't belive Gabe said that though.

tman93

Speaking from experience, this card can max TF2 at 1280x1024 resolution (PS3 version being 720p):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130297

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

whitetiger3521

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

Supa__Mario

Kinda agree. Most of the devs are good with the PS3. Why isn't Valve?

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/09/23/newell-says-valve-needs-to-invest-in-ps3-development/

mD-

Fat chance. Look at this quote from Valve when asked why they don't dev for the PS3, taken from this E3.

The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward. We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform. [...] I didn't come into this business in the 90s because of some technical fetish. I came in because I wanted to give people experiences that made them have fun.Valve Game Designer Tom Leonard

It's simply not a cost-effective decision for Valve to spend money there when they could use it for more PC/360 projects, or to further polish and update the titles they already have. The skills gained are more applicable down the line, and it doesn't require as much of an investment.

Anyone who says that Valve doesn't have the technical skill to dev for the PS3, and they are too lazy, doesn't realize quite how monumental an achievement they created with the Source Engine when it debuted in 2003.

[QUOTE="Supa__Mario"][QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

AdoringFan_

Kinda agree. Most of the devs are good with the PS3. Why isn't Valve?

they dont have the skill....Supa__Mario

Kinda agree. Most of the devs are good with the PS3. Why isn't Valve?

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

Kinda agree. Most of the devs are good with the PS3. Why isn't Valve?

Supa__Mario

[QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

[QUOTE="Supa__Mario"] they dont have the skill....pyromaniac223

Kinda agree. Most of the devs are good with the PS3. Why isn't Valve?

You're trying to demolish their discussion with you own unsupported opinions.

Source engine was good, but cryengine 1 and the doom 3 engine did compare, not won but very comparable.

Bolded: Not for the past few years.

[QUOTE="tman93"]

I wish they would release Episode 3 on the PS3 and actually make it themselves lots of offense to EA. The only reason I wish they would is I would probably have to upgrade my PC because it can barely run TF2 and I would hope that they update the source engine a little for Ep. 3.

They really just need to release some info on Ep. 3 in general.

I really can't belive Gabe said that though.

Speaking from experience, this card can max TF2 at 1280x1024 resolution (PS3 version being 720p):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130297

[QUOTE="Supa__Mario"][QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Triple post of fail. They are a small, privately owned company. While they do make a lot of money off of Steam and PC sales, they still don't have enough to take a huge gamble and spend a lot of resources learning how to develop for a system with complicated architecture only to make a game for a system with no established fanbase for their games. Valve doesn't have the skill? Back when the source engine debuted, it was like the second coming of Jesus. Nothing compared. Valve is one of the top developers in the world, Sony first party devs wish they could be as good.pyromaniac223

they dont have the skill....meaning they dont have the people who can do it......for whatever reason....Supa__Mario

Ok wait. Are they trying to keep face or something. Didint they said they hate the PS3 and that it sucks.

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"]

[QUOTE="Supa__Mario"] they dont have the skill....meaning they dont have the people who can do it......for whatever reason....Supa__Mario

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"]Triple post of fail. They are a small, privately owned company. While they do make a lot of money off of Steam and PC sales, they still don't have enough to take a huge gamble and spend a lot of resources learning how to develop for a system with complicated architecture only to make a game for a system with no established fanbase for their games. Valve doesn't have the skill? Back when the source engine debuted, it was like the second coming of Jesus. Nothing compared. Valve is one of the top developers in the world, Sony first party devs wish they could be as good.Supa__Mario

The reasoning is pretty simple.

Valve's strength is PC development. They're very good at it, but they have a development process that takes a lot of time, requires rapidly being able to assemble playable prototypes, and involves a lot of working and reworking existing work. And they're a private company that wants to stay profitable, and they cannot afford to hire a large group of employees temporarily (or permanently) unless they have a damn good reason.

The 360 is easy to work with, because it's basically a PC. They hardly have to rework anything to make their existing products function flawlessly on it, especially given the scalability of the Source Engine. The PS3, on the other hand, is a different beast altogether. It has a very complex and unique architecture that doesn't lend itself well to standard practices of PC development.

For Valve to port to the PS3, they need to hire a large group of employees for a long-term period to work exclusively with a particular platform. The skills they apply to that platform are basically useless or redundant elsewhere. They cannot help the company as efficiently as other employees when they are not working on PS3 games. If the PS3 ever ceases to be a viable platform (say the PS4 is produced), those employees are dead weight unless they get retrained. And even given a team to work exclusively to port titles, they can't guarantee that they will be up to the quality of Valve's work on other platforms (as occurred with Orange Box).

They may as well focus their limited dollars in places where they are guaranteed success, rather than committing to this difficult platform solely because people think they should do it, when the long term opportunity cost is so huge, and the return on the investment so uncertain.

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

Kinda agree. Most of the devs are good with the PS3. Why isn't Valve?

PSdual_wielder

You're trying to demolish their discussion with you own unsupported opinions.

Source engine was good, but cryengine 1 and the doom 3 engine did compare, not won but very comparable.

Bolded: Not for the past few years.

[QUOTE="Supa__Mario"][QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Okay, ignore every valid point of my post just to stick your fingers in your ears and yell " LA LA LA I'M RIGHT I'M RIGHT" They don't want to gamble their resources for something that might not have a payoff at all. Totally valid business decision.

pyromaniac223

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Triple post of fail. They are a small, privately owned company. While they do make a lot of money off of Steam and PC sales, they still don't have enough to take a huge gamble and spend a lot of resources learning how to develop for a system with complicated architecture only to make a game for a system with no established fanbase for their games. Valve doesn't have the skill? Back when the source engine debuted, it was like the second coming of Jesus. Nothing compared. Valve is one of the top developers in the world, Sony first party devs wish they could be as good.pyromaniac223

You're trying to demolish their discussion with you own unsupported opinions.

Source engine was good, but cryengine 1 and the doom 3 engine did compare, not won but very comparable.

Bolded: Not for the past few years.

could you please stop using so much hyperbole?

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"]Valve is one of the top developers in the world, Sony first party devs wish they could be as good.PSdual_wielder

You're trying to demolish their discussion with you own unsupported opinions.

Source engine was good, but cryengine 1 and the doom 3 engine did compare, not won but very comparable.

Bolded: Not for the past few years.

1) If Valve rivalled Crytek and iD in engine development, I'd say that put them in the top tier in terms of engine technology. They are clearly capable if they wish to be.

2) It seems as if you believe that the Orange Box package (containing Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, and Team Fortress 2) and Left 4 Dead aren't two of the most critically acclaimed and publicly loved shooters in the last two years. Given the facts (Left 4 Dead has stuck around on the Xbox Live activity charts for a long time after release, both games have sold millions of copies, Team Fortress 2 is still being played by tens of thousands of people at any given time, the Orange Box is in Gamerankings' top 10 of all time), I'm not sure why you'd think that.

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="Supa__Mario"] your saying my reply failed....im trying to make my reply more clear for you......all of those reasons you gave still boils down to they dont have the manpower who have this skill......Supa__Mario

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

You're trying to demolish their discussion with you own unsupported opinions.

Source engine was good, but cryengine 1 and the doom 3 engine did compare, not won but very comparable.

Bolded: Not for the past few years.

PSdual_wielder

could you please stop using so much hyperbole?

Well first of all, finally a good interview with the right and on spot questions about Ep 3, TF2 and L4d no ass kissing uninformed BS like the rockpapershotgun one, and Gabe gives way better answers than Dough.

Noticed a few things.

About Ep. 3 I think they are preparing some sort of surprise, something like the Spy update kinda thing or maybe a new OB like deal since they are doing the "can't talk about it" deal so much, well I'd hope this is the case.

I see them saying that it's kind of a hassle to get the updates for the 360 version of L4D through, well I just hope this doesn't mean anything to the PC version and why it still doesn't have more updates...Valve. So in case some cows are still wondering why they haven't jumped on the PS3 right away it's because Valve's way of updating their games take a lot of work, it's not just about not having the ability to do so but because valve would also want to keep everyone equally updated.

As for L4d2, sounds more to me like Valve just wanted to do a sequel just for the heck of it. I personally think this is not the best move atm since ppl aren't receiving this very well and also releasing all the content they originally planned for L4D (hoping this is what Gabe meant) while still doing a sequel is clearly gonna devalued L4d2 since not everyone wants to buy a full new game just for a few somewhat significant updates that so far seem to be only the AI director 2.0 and weather.....but we'll see.

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Back when the source engine debuted, the sky fell. It was top of the line, and minds were blown. They had the best engine at the time, and that should at least prove that they have skill in absolute spades. Come back when Sony first party devs make a few groundbreaking games that alter genres.pyromaniac223

could you please stop using so much hyperbole?

Yeah I remember that day, I could still feel the O2 gas from back then.

[QUOTE="Supa__Mario"]hes been reading the hate on these boards......hopefully he will know better now....pyromaniac223

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="Supa__Mario"]hes been reading the hate on these boards......hopefully he will know better now....Jrfanfreak88

So, last time we talked at Leipzig, I had asked you why there would be no Left 4 Dead on PS3 and you said because Valve, itself, wasn't big enough to yet support PS3 development in-house. Is that still the case why Left 4 Dead 2 is not announced for the PS3?Newell: Yes. We haven't done a good job of taking care of our PS3 customers at all for the existing Orange Box customers, and that is very frustrating to me personally. Until we can do a better job than we have, I'm sort of hesitant to go back and screw them again. So, I want to make sure when we have customers on the PS3 they don't end up in the sort of second ****citizen that I feel that they've been by what we did originally with the Orange Box.Hopefully he'll show more love!/AdoringFan_

Why don't interviewers ever ask the folowing question:

"Why do Europeans have to pay (almost) 50% more than Americans on steam ?"

I would really like an answer to that question from Valve.

Why don't interviewers ever ask the folowing question:

"Why do Europeans have to pay (almost) 50% more than Americans on steam ?"

I would really like an answer to that question from Valve.

R4gn4r0k

Cause Europeans have 50% more cash laying around, and its just an industry standard to screw over people whose currency has a higher exchange rate than the USD.

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

whitetiger3521

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

whitetiger3521

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

whitetiger3521

I can live with Gabe's explanation of why they aren't doing ps3 versions of their games. I just didn't like the bashing of the ps3, if he thinks he can't get a quality product to the shelves then so be it, I understand.

"We haven't done a good job of taking care of our PS3 customers at all for the existing Orange Box customers"

Silly Gabe, you havent done good job for 360 Orange Boxcustomers too *cough* TF2 *cough*

"We haven't done a good job of taking care of our PS3 customers at all for the existing Orange Box customers"

Silly Gabe, you havent done good job for 360 Orange Boxcustomers too *cough* TF2 *cough*

sikanderahmed

[QUOTE="mD-"]

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/09/23/newell-says-valve-needs-to-invest-in-ps3-development/

sonicmj1

Fat chance. Look at this quote from Valve when asked why they don't dev for the PS3, taken from this E3.

The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward. We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform. [...] I didn't come into this business in the 90s because of some technical fetish. I came in because I wanted to give people experiences that made them have fun.Valve Game Designer Tom Leonard

It's simply not a cost-effective decision for Valve to spend money there when they could use it for more PC/360 projects, or to further polish and update the titles they already have. The skills gained are more applicable down the line, and it doesn't require as much of an investment.

Anyone who says that Valve doesn't have the technical skill to dev for the PS3, and they are too lazy, doesn't realize quite how monumental an achievement they created with the Source Engine when it debuted in 2003.

If that was true for Valve it would be true for every other developer that has made a PS3 game, and of course its not.skektek

Back when the source engine debuted, the sky fell. It was top of the line, and minds were blown. They had the best engine at the time, and that should at least prove that they have skill in absolute spades. Come back when Sony first party devs make a few groundbreaking games that alter genres.pyromaniac223

Both Team ICO games take a poo on anything Valve has done since HL2 and I class them as "groundbreaking games that alter genres".

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

"We haven't done a good job of taking care of our PS3 customers at all for the existing Orange Box customers"

Silly Gabe, you havent done good job for 360 Orange Boxcustomers too *cough* TF2 *cough*

aaronmullan

did i say anything about the updates? ;) i just want them to fix glitches and server hacks, didnt ask for updates or anything and neither do i care for them.....except that gold cart map would be cool.

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

"We haven't done a good job of taking care of our PS3 customers at all for the existing Orange Box customers"

Silly Gabe, you havent done good job for 360 Orange Boxcustomers too *cough* TF2 *cough*

sikanderahmed

did i say anything about the updates? ;) i just want them to fix glitches and server hacks, didnt ask for updates or anything and neither do i care for them.....except that gold cart map would be cool.