G4TV: Opening The Valve, Gabe Newell Interview (MUST READ)

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Back when the source engine debuted, the sky fell. It was top of the line, and minds were blown. They had the best engine at the time, and that should at least prove that they have skill in absolute spades. Come back when Sony first party devs make a few groundbreaking games that alter genres.theSADmafioso

Both Team ICO games take a poo on anything Valve has done since HL2 and I class them as "groundbreaking games that alter genres".

[QUOTE="theSADmafioso"]

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Back when the source engine debuted, the sky fell. It was top of the line, and minds were blown. They had the best engine at the time, and that should at least prove that they have skill in absolute spades. Come back when Sony first party devs make a few groundbreaking games that alter genres.Danm_999

Both Team ICO games take a poo on anything Valve has done since HL2 and I class them as "groundbreaking games that alter genres".

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="theSADmafioso"]

Both Team ICO games take a poo on anything Valve has done since HL2 and I class them as "groundbreaking games that alter genres".

aaronmullan

[QUOTE="Supa__Mario"][QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

AdoringFan_

Kinda agree. Most of the devs are good with the PS3. Why isn't Valve?

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"] I thought you loved the vanilla TF2 without all the updates? Don't you be going back on your word now ;)aaronmullan

did i say anything about the updates? ;) i just want them to fix glitches and server hacks, didnt ask for updates or anything and neither do i care for them.....except that gold cart map would be cool.

I doubt they will release the DLC, just want the damn patch, they said they will fix server hacks as well and they didnt even fix that yet, lazy devs are lazy....oh yehpc version might be superior to you but not for me*goes back to enjoying TF2 on 360*

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

did i say anything about the updates? ;) i just want them to fix glitches and server hacks, didnt ask for updates or anything and neither do i care for them.....except that gold cart map would be cool.

sikanderahmed

I doubt they will release the DLC, just want the damn patch, they said they will fix server hacks as well and they didnt even fix that yet, lazy devs are lazy....oh yehpc version might be superior to you but not for me*goes back to enjoying TF2 on 360*

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"] Whenever you get a patch, you'll get the update ;) I'd just play the superior PC version if I were you.Dante2710

I doubt they will release the DLC, just want the damn patch, they said they will fix server hacks as well and they didnt even fix that yet, lazy devs are lazy....oh yehpc version might be superior to you but not for me*goes back to enjoying TF2 on 360*

no it doesnt, look how fast gears 2 was patched....Valve is too lazy

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

did i say anything about the updates? ;) i just want them to fix glitches and server hacks, didnt ask for updates or anything and neither do i care for them.....except that gold cart map would be cool.

sikanderahmed

I doubt they will release the DLC, just want the damn patch, they said they will fix server hacks as well and they didnt even fix that yet, lazy devs are lazy....oh yehpc version might be superior to you but not for me*goes back to enjoying TF2 on 360*

no it doesnt, look how fast gears 2 was patched....Valve is too lazysikanderahmed

[QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

I doubt they will release the DLC, just want the damn patch, they said they will fix server hacks as well and they didnt even fix that yet, lazy devs are lazy....oh yehpc version might be superior to you but not for me*goes back to enjoying TF2 on 360*

sikanderahmed

no it doesnt, look how fast gears 2 was patched....Valve is too lazy

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"] Whenever you get a patch, you'll get the update ;) I'd just play the superior PC version if I were you.aaronmullan

I doubt they will release the DLC, just want the damn patch, they said they will fix server hacks as well and they didnt even fix that yet, lazy devs are lazy....oh yehpc version might be superior to you but not for me*goes back to enjoying TF2 on 360*

nope way more then that, not hard to find 16 player matches anytime of the day even though the search game system is broken. playing a 16 player match right now. i think leaderboards reset every month but there are always 60,000 + entries on the leaderboard at the end of da month, i say thats a bit more then 10 players

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"] this has to do more with microsoft than valve Dante2710

no it doesnt, look how fast gears 2 was patched....Valve is too lazy

so what? just coz valve focuses on pc that makes MS responsibile for 360 version and MS is to be blamed for the lack of patches?

so what? just coz valve focuses on pc that makes MS responsibile for 360 version and MS is to be blamed for the lack of patches?sikanderahmed

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]so what? just coz valve focuses on pc that makes MS responsibile for 360 version and MS is to be blamed for the lack of patches?Dante2710

so valve is not releasing the patches coz of approval? :roll: you do know they did release a patch or two for 360 version quite a while back? why didnt the approval hold them back that time :| why does everyone think that MS has some hardcore evil approval process? dude look when gears 2 was released and how many patches that game has recieved and those patches arent just small exploit fixes either, they are big patches...

[QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]so what? just coz valve focuses on pc that makes MS responsibile for 360 version and MS is to be blamed for the lack of patches?sikanderahmed

so valve is not releasing the patches coz of approval? :roll: you do know they did release a patch or two for 360 version quite a while back? why didnt the approval hold them back that time :| why does everyone think that MS has some hardcore evil approval process? dude look when gears 2 was released and how many patches that game has recieved and those patches arent just small exploit fixes either, they are big patches...

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"] here is the difference, patches for the pc do not need approval from microsoft aaronmullan

so valve is not releasing the patches coz of approval? :roll: you do know they did release a patch or two for 360 version quite a while back? why didnt the approval hold them back that time :| why does everyone think that MS has some hardcore evil approval process? dude look when gears 2 was released and how many patches that game has recieved and those patches arent just small exploit fixes either, they are big patches...

the updates if released on 360 will be released as DLC, nothing to do with patch

The Cows hating on Valve is truly a great example of pathetic spiteful fanboyism. Honestly now grow up.skrat_01

cows have the right to hate them because those lazy ass devs cant develop their ugly games on ps3 coz they find it too hard lolz wtf

[QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]so what? just coz valve focuses on pc that makes MS responsibile for 360 version and MS is to be blamed for the lack of patches?sikanderahmed

so valve is not releasing the patches coz of approval? :roll: you do know they did release a patch or two for 360 version quite a while back? why didnt the approval hold them back that time :| why does everyone think that MS has some hardcore evil approval process? dude look when gears 2 was released and how many patches that game has recieved and those patches arent just small exploit fixes either, they are big patches...

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"] here is the difference, patches for the pc do not need approval from microsoft Dante2710

so valve is not releasing the patches coz of approval? :roll: you do know they did release a patch or two for 360 version quite a while back? why didnt the approval hold them back that time :| why does everyone think that MS has some hardcore evil approval process? dude look when gears 2 was released and how many patches that game has recieved and those patches arent just small exploit fixes either, they are big patches...

i do not know about the patch limit but im sure as hell they can fix a few bugs and server exploits while remaining within those limits, patches are NOT included with DLC, in every 360 game ive played, the patch is always seperate from DLC. also yes MS doesnt like free stuff but L4D DLC was free soooooo im sure valve can release TF2 DLC for free too

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

[QUOTE="mD-"]

Fat chance. Look at this quote from Valve when asked why they don't dev for the PS3, taken from this E3.

[QUOTE="Valve Game Designer Tom Leonard"]The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward. We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform. [...] I didn't come into this business in the 90s because of some technical fetish. I came in because I wanted to give people experiences that made them have fun.skektek

It's simply not a cost-effective decision for Valve to spend money there when they could use it for more PC/360 projects, or to further polish and update the titles they already have. The skills gained are more applicable down the line, and it doesn't require as much of an investment.

Anyone who says that Valve doesn't have the technical skill to dev for the PS3, and they are too lazy, doesn't realize quite how monumental an achievement they created with the Source Engine when it debuted in 2003.

It's true for many PC developers. Look at the time that it took Bioshock and Oblivion to get PS3 ports. Look at the RTS ports that the PS3 hasn't received.

Developing for the PS3 can be a cost-effective decision in the right circumstances. Honestly though, I'd suspect that most developers would have to create a PS3 port whether they thought it was cost-effective or not, based on the mandate of certain publishers (EA, Activision) to have a game out for all platforms. For many, this has gotten easier as time has passed due to massive investments in certain middleware to allow cross-platform game-making.

Valve is not a console developer, though, and given their (usually) limited output in a given console cycle, they probably wouldn't see the returns from that as quickly as other console developers would. As a result, I can understand their desire to keep their focus squarely on the skillsets they presently possess in PC development, rather than greatly expand in order to take advantage of PS3 development.

[QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

so valve is not releasing the patches coz of approval? :roll: you do know they did release a patch or two for 360 version quite a while back? why didnt the approval hold them back that time :| why does everyone think that MS has some hardcore evil approval process? dude look when gears 2 was released and how many patches that game has recieved and those patches arent just small exploit fixes either, they are big patches...

sikanderahmed

i do not know about the patch limit but im sure as hell they can fix a few bugs and server exploits while remaining within those limits, patches are NOT included with DLC, in every 360 game ive played, the patch is always seperate from DLC. also yes MS doesnt like free stuff but L4D DLC was free soooooo im sure valve can release TF2 DLC for free too

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"] microsoft has a limit of patches for the 360 if i remember correctly(there is a 20mb limit ) and you can oly release three patches for the game total, and valve most likely wants to include this with the dlc, and there is PLENTY of dlc to start with, Microsoft doesnt like free stuff while valve does, another issue. Dante2710

i do not know about the patch limit but im sure as hell they can fix a few bugs and server exploits while remaining within those limits, patches are NOT included with DLC, in every 360 game ive played, the patch is always seperate from DLC. also yes MS doesnt like free stuff but L4D DLC was free soooooo im sure valve can release TF2 DLC for free too

what patches did L4D DLC have? also MS puting agood fight or not doesnt matter, if MS didnt agree then the DLC would still be released but for a price. Valve has released patch for 360 version before....why didnt they wait for DLC then? it is stupid holding back on patch just to release it with DLC they have been working on for 2 years and will probably not even release.....they can easily release the patch for 360 but i guess they havent even worked on it ;)

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

Valve's credibility as a game developer is completely destroyed. There is no excuse for them to not make a PS3 game that's actually worth a damn.

Supa__Mario

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]The Cows hating on Valve is truly a great example of pathetic spiteful fanboyism. Honestly now grow up.sikanderahmed

cows have the right to hate them because those lazy ass devs cant develop their ugly games on ps3 coz they find it too hard lolz wtf

Who knows, but if he has a change of heart, he might port L4D to PS3 IMO. Either way I'm getting it on PC :)

Even if they did make Left 4 Dead on PS3 they wouldn't bother adding DLC or anything.

Even if they did make Left 4 Dead on PS3 they wouldn't bother adding DLC or anything.

Troqe

How would you know? lol. If Valve has a change of heart, anything is possible.

Who knows, but if he has a change of heart, he might port L4D to PS3 IMO. Either way I'm getting it on PC :)

AdoringFan_

[QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

Who knows, but if he has a change of heart, he might port L4D to PS3 IMO. Either way I'm getting it on PC :)

SimoSays2541

Oh I know that, but thanks anyways lol. PC games are most likely superior when compared to console games.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

[QUOTE="mD-"]

It's simply not a cost-effective decision for Valve to spend money there when they could use it for more PC/360 projects, or to further polish and update the titles they already have. The skills gained are more applicable down the line, and it doesn't require as much of an investment.

Anyone who says that Valve doesn't have the technical skill to dev for the PS3, and they are too lazy, doesn't realize quite how monumental an achievement they created with the Source Engine when it debuted in 2003.

skektek

lol how many more times does this need explaining. They're not 'lazy', to be lazy would imply the can't be bothered getting off their backsides. A better description would be to call them 'overly cautious business plan' or something like that.

Basically, they are PC developer who has a significant amount of their skill-set within the bounds of PC game development. As we already know, this skill-set lends itself well to the 360. It doesn't so much to the PS3. So what do you do from a business planning point of view?

1. Retrain your existing staff
2. Hire additional staff
3. Outsource the development / porting process

Each option requires planning ahead and a new business plan to be developed. Each one also requires an investment in funding and presents certain risks. Training existing staff requires taking them off current projects, hiring new staff requires significant extra costs in terms of workspace, wages, recruitment, equipment and other resources. In planning ahead they way up what possible returns they may get in developing for the platform.

Many businesses, if they have certain strengths that are proving very profitable take a strategic decision not to invest or branch into a new sector if they forecast that doing so will require significant cost and their is a risk of little return. Valve have quite obviously done this. They may well end up being proved wrong but they are not forced to gamble on the PS3 market. They are one of the few developers who can afford not to.

Either way, valve are not lazy. They're just not willing to change their current business model.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand in this. They don't have programmers familiar with PS3, or just don't have enough people to work on so many simultaneous projects, to make a PS3 game they would need to train/re-assign/hire people. It's a huge long term investment that takes money and time. Big investment equals big risk and they are in no way obligated to take it just to appease some fanboys.

Other thing to consider is that they aren't gonna set up a PS3 team just for one game, if they commit to it they'd be making a major long-term investment, source engine is already old so maybe it's just not smart at this point to train people to use it on ps3 just for few games, it might be more efficient to time that kind of investment after a new engine is ready so they can train people directly with that.