Gabe Newell unjustifiably hates next-gen consoles

[QUOTE="Redfingers"][QUOTE="organic_machine"][QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"]

The way i see it, Half-Life 2 has nothing on Gears in the technical department. Or BioShock for that matter. And Cliffy B said himself that a year or two from now games will look waaaay better than Gears. Therefore, i can only conclude that this is a guy talking off-hand who's had his words pulled out of context. It happens all the time.

As Frankie from bungie once said, "Miyamoto said once that he could make a game like Halo... the next day journalists had contorted that into him saying we were nothing special as developers and that he could easily make a game of Halo quality if he wanted to. In actual fact, all he said was that he could make a shooter someday if he put his mind to it. The conclusion? Never speak when some idiot with a camera is in your presence."

organic_machine

Exactly. I think TC is taking things out of context.

Lol....I took things out of context? Wrong, I put the Gabe Newell comment on the Playstation 3 in context. The Valve PSU interview speaks for itself. The Xbox 360 comments do not require further clarification from any other article.

You're completely missing the point.

Yes, you're taking things out of context. You're also the one who's claiming Gabe is biased, yet you tell ninja NOt to pull "teh bias" card. You know nothing of development and you are acting hypocritical.

I never claimed Gabe is biased, I claimed he's a big baby. Which he pretty much is. He complains of the ridiculous complexity of the Cell processor...and yet he is only using the PPU.

Gabe is biased, however. He doesn't like consoles. He said it himself. What do you want me to do, backpedal so that he hasn't said that? It came out of his mouth, don't be ridiculous.

Gabe wasn't even the one who said they're using 93-94% of the Xbox 360. You're taking things out of context and, worse, attributing them to the wrong people. That was during an entirely different interview with PSU to a Valve employee. I agree that the figures are probably bloated or nonsensical. Stop attacking me.

Let me reiterate my point: if you haven't even made a reasonable effort to use a single SPU in developing your game for the Playstation 3 platform, what right do you have to criticize the hardware? Gabe does it excessively. Considering that there are A) developers that are currently making games for the platform utilizing the SPUs and B) literally tools in existence with the code necessary to utilize the SPUs, no sweat

can't he either put up or shut up? I'm not saying he HAS to use the SPUs, just that he has to recognize that there are elements to the question he is willfully ignoring.

I'm not saying the Playstation 3 is difficult to develop for or even unreasonably difficult to develop for. I'm only saying that his comments are unreasonable and extremely excessive. He's a complainer.

I never claimed Gabe is biased, I claimed he's a big baby. Which he pretty much is. He complains of the ridiculous complexity of the Cell processor...and yet he is only using the PPU.

Gabe is biased, however. He doesn't like consoles. He said it himself. What do you want me to do, backpedal so that he hasn't said that? It came out of his mouth, don't be ridiculous.

Gabe wasn't even the one who said they're using 93-94% of the Xbox 360. You're taking things out of context and, worse, attributing them to the wrong people. That was during an entirely different interview with PSU to a Valve employee. I agree that the figures are probably bloated or nonsensical. Stop attacking me.

Redfingers

Okay, first off, this is an internet forum. I am not attacking you. If you think I am attacking you, you need some anger management. None of this should be viewed as an "attack." More like a debate. You're the one getting heated here. Relax. The only one who hurts you on SW is yourself. Moving on. Sure, Gabe can be a baby. But he's done quite a lot for gaming. Cut him some slack. And you know what, the game IS coming to PS3. You have nothing to worry about. It is just a video game. Gabe is just a guy who complains a lot. It's nothing worth wasting the time making threads and getting defensive over.

Gabe-a the Hut is just upset he doesn't have Princess Leia in her slave girl outfit to keep him company. ;)

MUHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

We can sit here and talk about how powerful the Cell is or how they haven't even scratched the surface. . but come on. Don't be a stuck up pig. What good is all the fancy tech if you can't utilize it? What good is the most advanced computer in the world if it doesn't have clearly labelled buttons and we give it to a retard Not a damn thing.

And how long will it take to finally utilize a 100% of the system? Four years? Six years? Eight?! Who knows because we can't see that far. But if it did take that long it'd be worthless. By then I'm sure Nintendo or Microsoft would release a new system to compete. There'd be new processors and new formats and all kinds of new tech. For all the bells and whistles, it could just be useless if it'll take forever to use.

I don't know. I'm just tired of people making half-assed arguments about how the PS3 will be better in the future and how I have to wait until "the next year" for quality gaming. What about now? We are living in the present. If I had to wait so long why didn't they wait until they had a better grasp on the technology before releasing it? For all their faults, at least the Wii and the 360 are delivering at the moment.

AncientDozer

Dude. You don't seem to understand how dramatic the rift between 7 SPUs blazing and 0 SPUs.

It's pretty damn big.

Anyway, I'm not saying the Cell is going to destroy the world or whatever the hell when it finally becomes "unlocked" I'm simply saying this guy is totally gimping it and making fun of it. Like I said, the Edge tools have code that literally allows usage of the SPUs. There's no excuse to not being able to use it, aside from not knowing or not wanting to use it.

He's criticizing something, meanwhile others are enjoying the fruits of the accomplishments of first-party developers.

[QUOTE="swaginator"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="swaginator"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="swaginator"]Some of it's the truth though. The Cell processor was not designed for gaming in mind. Redfingers

So the Playstation 3 wasn't even a faint consideration in this process?

If the Xenon is so mighty, why does it take 93-94% of it to run Half Life 2, of all games on the planet? Why does the wimpy little in-order processing PPU of the Cell seem to not be having any trouble at all with it?

The SPUs destroy physics and simulations and the Cell can act effectively as a GPU, far more so than the Xenon, that much is well proven. If by sheer chance, who'd have guessed, the Cell has significantly more processing power relevant to video games than the Xenon if this is any indication (along with real-time raytracing demonstrations, software rendering demonstrations, GPUvsCell benchmarks, etc).

Think about this though, and this makes you wonder if the optimzation is crap on the 360.

If the ps3 is only using the PPE and the RSX, then how do 3 of same PPE's (Xenons core's slighty more powerful because ofVMX128 + more L2 cache) and and an arguably more powerful GPU running at this supposed 95%?

makes you wonder huh...? If the SPU's really aren't being used, then those numbers don't add for crap. Cell isn't jack without those SPU's...so that whole 95% thing doesn't make a lick of sense.

[QUOTE="Redfingers"]

I never claimed Gabe is biased, I claimed he's a big baby. Which he pretty much is. He complains of the ridiculous complexity of the Cell processor...and yet he is only using the PPU.

Gabe is biased, however. He doesn't like consoles. He said it himself. What do you want me to do, backpedal so that he hasn't said that? It came out of his mouth, don't be ridiculous.

Gabe wasn't even the one who said they're using 93-94% of the Xbox 360. You're taking things out of context and, worse, attributing them to the wrong people. That was during an entirely different interview with PSU to a Valve employee. I agree that the figures are probably bloated or nonsensical. Stop attacking me.

organic_machine

Okay, first off, this is an internet forum. I am not attacking you. If you think I am attacking you, you need some anger management. None of this should be viewed as an "attack." More like a debate. You're the one getting heated here. Relax. The only one who hurts you on SW is yourself. Moving on. Sure, Gabe can be a baby. But he's done quite a lot for gaming. Cut him some slack. And you know what, the game IS coming to PS3. You have nothing to worry about. It is just a video game. Gabe is just a guy who complains a lot. It's nothing worth wasting the time making threads and getting defensive over.

Okay. Sorry for "debating" with too much enthusiasm. I'll make sure to dry my next comment out for you.

People were telling me that I was biased, using biased sources, that I was taking things out of context, etc. That's not debating. That's sidetracking.

People aren't "debating" in this forum when they tell somebody they're a fanboy. They're attacking their credibility. It happens literally every day if not every hour or every minute on system wars. I understand it's part of the forum, that doesn't mean I have to sit here like an idiot and nod every time someone rolls out of an argument by calling someone a fanboy or what have you.

Think about this though, and this makes you wonder if the optimzation is crap on the 360.

If the ps3 is only using the PPE and the RSX, then how do 3 of same PPE's (Xenons core's slighty more powerful because ofVMX128 + more L2 cache) and and an arguably more powerful GPU running at this supposed 95%?

makes you wonder huh...? If the SPU's really aren't being used, then those numbers don't add for crap. Cell isn't jack without those SPU's...so that whole 95% thing doesn't make a lick of sense.

Innovazero2000

I agree. That's why I think their evaluations are sort of unreasonable. I'd be just fine and dandy to pretend they never said any of this. Assuming they of course did, which I do.

[QUOTE="Innovazero2000"]

Think about this though, and this makes you wonder if the optimzation is crap on the 360.

If the ps3 is only using the PPE and the RSX, then how do 3 of same PPE's (Xenons core's slighty more powerful because ofVMX128 + more L2 cache) and and an arguably more powerful GPU running at this supposed 95%?

makes you wonder huh...? If the SPU's really aren't being used, then those numbers don't add for crap. Cell isn't jack without those SPU's...so that whole 95% thing doesn't make a lick of sense.

Redfingers

I agree. That's why I think their evaluations are sort of unreasonable. I'd be just fine and dandy to pretend they never said any of this. Assuming they of course did, which I do.

I would as well, im tired of these developers adding fuel to the fire for mis-informed people to throw around. As long as it runs smoothly on both, I could give a damn how much power each is sucking up.

And another thing. Let's see you people make damn games for the system. Then you can say "it's easy" or "it's hard". Oh, right. You guys haven't so you don't know. You just have their words to go on and who knows if these publishers who say it's easy or not have an agenda.

AncientDozer

All I have to assume are a few things:

A) this is a legitimate publication which is attempting to present information that is as accurate as possible (read: transcribed accurately)

B) this "Valve" employee is a legitimate Valve employee and his information is real

C) Gabe Newell is being quoted accurately

Assuming all of those things, Gabe is really complaining in an unreasonable way given the Edge tools provide code that would make his efforts seem futile, providing performance he's obviously not able to obtain from the Playstation 3. Literally, opening up those SPUs is what he's complaining about. The code is available to him, from my understanding.

[QUOTE="Redfingers"][QUOTE="Innovazero2000"]

Think about this though, and this makes you wonder if the optimzation is crap on the 360.

If the ps3 is only using the PPE and the RSX, then how do 3 of same PPE's (Xenons core's slighty more powerful because ofVMX128 + more L2 cache) and and an arguably more powerful GPU running at this supposed 95%?

makes you wonder huh...? If the SPU's really aren't being used, then those numbers don't add for crap. Cell isn't jack without those SPU's...so that whole 95% thing doesn't make a lick of sense.

Innovazero2000

I agree. That's why I think their evaluations are sort of unreasonable. I'd be just fine and dandy to pretend they never said any of this. Assuming they of course did, which I do.

I would as well, im tired of these developers adding fuel to the fire for mis-informed people to throw around. As long as it runs smoothly on both, I could give a damn how much power each is sucking up.

At the end of the day the Xbox 360 version is optimized correctly and is releasing two weeks prior to the Playstation 3 version. The Playstation 3 version will be optimized during those two weeks. If you've got a 360, you're the one benefitting. That's why I don't see why the question is so hard for some to deal with here.

Granted, there's a few problems with legitimacy, but seeing as the information, legitimate or not, is having no bearing on games like Bioshock, GRAW 2, Rainbow Six, Darkness, etc, I can't understand being entirely annoyed there.

Okay. Sorry for "debating" with too much enthusiasm. I'll make sure to dry my next comment out for you.

People were telling me that I was biased, using biased sources, that I was taking things out of context, etc. That's not debating. That's sidetracking.

People aren't "debating" in this forum when they tell somebody they're a fanboy. They're attacking their credibility. It happens literally every day if not every hour or every minute on system wars. I understand it's part of the forum, that doesn't mean I have to sit here like an idiot and nod every time someone rolls out of an argument by calling someone a fanboy or what have you.

Redfingers

This is getting nowhere and by defending credibilty on the internet, you are actually losing it. We'll end with this: you're actual argument. You said that Gabe should either shut up or put up, did you not? Well, guess what? He IS putting up. THIS GAME IS COMING OUT FOR PS3. It is under development and WILL ship. If that's not putting up, I don't know what is. And it is not as if he's giving up on the PS3 cause he thinks it's too hard. No, you're overreacting and getting defensive on an internet forum. Stop it, give it a rest, the game is coming out, you have nothing to defend. This is not real life, this is SW.

Releasing a game on the Playstation 3 is not the equivalent of putting up. A hackshod port is not putting up. It's ignoring a substantial amount of capacity that there is no reasonable excuse not to use. The code exists for him. He can ignore it, and I could care less. Why is he complaining? Does he not realize?

Redfingers

And what evidence do you even have to back up the "fact" that this is going to be a "hackshod" port? Nothing. you're jumping to irrational conclusions. Once again.

http://pixellove.wordpress.com/2007/06/20/half-life-2-ps3-development-in-uk/

Whoops. The entire premise of my thread is wrong. Why didn't anyone tell me that EA is developing the PS3 version of HL2 OB?

Anyway, I guess you could say Gabe is sort of unjustified in that he isn't developing on the Playstation 3. I guess some of the commenters here are also unjustified in saying that he is "putting up" given they whisked development off to EA instead of doing it in-house.

At the end of the day I'm getting a bad port and I'm not sure if it's Gabe's fault for handing out the contract to the hideous EA of all placed or whether it's EA's fault for being....EA.

Pretty much everything I said about Gabe can easily be explained by the fact that EA is the definition of ignorance and negligence. At least in my experience as a PS3 owner...

[QUOTE="Redfingers"]

Releasing a game on the Playstation 3 is not the equivalent of putting up. A hackshod port is not putting up. It's ignoring a substantial amount of capacity that there is no reasonable excuse not to use. The code exists for him. He can ignore it, and I could care less. Why is he complaining? Does he not realize?

organic_machine

And what evidence do you even have to back up the "fact" that this is going to be a "hackshod" port? Nothing. you're jumping to irrational conclusions. Once again.

Gee. I think it's that A) EA is developing it, not Valve, which explains the "no SPU's" thing

and B) it's been pushed back two weeks whereas the Xbox 360 version of the game is releasing day and date with the PC version of the game.

I suspect poor performance based off my experience with GRAW 2, The Darkness, and Rainbow Six Vegas.

[QUOTE="swaginator"]Some of it's the truth though. The Cell processor was not designed for gaming in mind. Redfingers

That's entirely incorrect.

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

And what evidence do you even have to back up the "fact" that this is going to be a "hackshod" port? Nothing. you're jumping to irrational conclusions. Once again.

Redfingers

Gee. I think it's that A) EA is developing it, not Valve, which explains the "no SPU's" thing

and B) it's been pushed back two weeks whereas the Xbox 360 version of the game is releasing day and date with the PC version of the game.

I suspect poor performance based off my experience with GRAW 2, The Darkness, and Rainbow Six Vegas.

We'll see come review time. I doubt you're going to get a sub par game. I think you're overreacting. But, nobody knows, and we will all find out when the game gets reviewed. Don't jump to conclusions and assume the game will be a suck port. You just don't know until it releases. You are "unjustifiably" complaining.

Gabe use to work for MS and now he hates them so that's why he complained about Vista and the reason he hates the Ps3 is because it's a crap systemSeckzy_Gamer

Yeah. And he has the game running on the RSX and the PPU.

Gabe use to work for MS and now he hates them so that's why he complained about Vista and the reason he hates the Ps3 is because it's a crap systemSeckzy_Gamer

Thanks for playing, but the answer was "Quality system with lackluster lineup."

Better luck next time!

[QUOTE="Redfingers"][QUOTE="organic_machine"]

And what evidence do you even have to back up the "fact" that this is going to be a "hackshod" port? Nothing. you're jumping to irrational conclusions. Once again.

organic_machine

Gee. I think it's that A) EA is developing it, not Valve, which explains the "no SPU's" thing

and B) it's been pushed back two weeks whereas the Xbox 360 version of the game is releasing day and date with the PC version of the game.

I suspect poor performance based off my experience with GRAW 2, The Darkness, and Rainbow Six Vegas.

We'll see come review time. I doubt you're going to get a sub par game. I think you're overreacting. But, nobody knows, and we will all find out when the game gets reviewed. Don't jump to conclusions and assume the game will be a suck port. You just don't know until it releases. You are "unjustifiably" complaining.

Of course I'm overreacting. But then again, so are you.

Let's just shake hands. He said the development was going smoothly, I was just honestly expecting more, and Gabe's comments kind of irked me. Not a big deal. For you, that is. Just let me rage in peace.

Of course I'm overreacting. But then again, so are you.

Let's just shake hands. He said the development was going smoothly, I was just honestly expecting more, and Gabe's comments kind of irked me. Not a big deal. For you, that is. Just let me rage in peace.

Redfingers

Listen, Red, let us walk away from this one. I can let you rage in peace. I wont post any more in this thred. Feel free to vent. ;)

EDIT: Feel free to vent, Red, but just dont Steam!! Get it, STEAM??!!! Huh?!:lol:.......... ugh... :?

[QUOTE="Redfingers"]

Of course I'm overreacting. But then again, so are you.

Let's just shake hands. He said the development was going smoothly, I was just honestly expecting more, and Gabe's comments kind of irked me. Not a big deal. For you, that is. Just let me rage in peace.

organic_machine

Listen, Red, let us walk away from this one. I can let you rage in peace. I wont post any more in this thred. Feel free to vent. ;)

EDIT: Feel free to vent, Red, but just dont Steam!! Get it, STEAM??!!! Huh?!:lol:.......... ugh... :?

Steam is fantastic.

Playstation 3 has more peak performance and theoretical power yes, but as long as development tools don't allow them to fully utilize that power in a efficient way then we will never see it. To be completely honest and I know a lot of ps3 fans don't want to hear it, I see the ps3 as going the same route sega saturn did. Just like sega saturn the ps3 will get half assed ports of 360 games because the developers find it to much trouble to build a game for the ps3 from the ground up. And while the system has a few killer games coming out they won't save it from flopping.

One of the things that keep the saturn a float was 1st party games by sega. Virtua fighter 2, Nights and Virtual On. Those are a few on the top of my head. At any rate, the ps3 really doesn't have strong first party titles to keep it up. What I'm saying is once developers start to pull away from the system then its over. There are so many things the ps3 has in common with the saturn its scary, I guess its the ghost of Sega coming back to hunt Sony.