Game dev said BR is needed for gaming, lemmings said BR isn`t needed for gaming

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Can I just note here that the need for BR depends on the dev? For example Kojima uses lots of CGI in his games, so he needs lots of space for it. Naughty Dog and Insomniac are first party sony (if I'm not mistaken), so you shouldn't give to much value to their words.

I've said it before: PS3 needs blue ray, while it isn't necessary for xbox 360 because of the games coming out for it.

I dunno, I think blu-ray makes blu-ray necessary.

What I'm saying is, the read speed is so much slower on the ps3 that they need to repeat the same data over and over to reduce the load times.

I guess its nice for 1080p fmv's, thats it. 

If you look at games on the PC if they are even close to 9 gb's half of that is usually fmv's that are the same quality and sometimes less than the actual ingame engine. In the end it all depends on how lazy the devs are.

Can I just note here that the need for BR depends on the dev? For example Kojima uses lots of CGI in his games, so he needs lots of space for it. Naughty Dog and Insomniac are first party sony (if I'm not mistaken), so you shouldn't give to much value to their words.

I've said it before: PS3 needs blue ray, while it isn't necessary for xbox 360 because of the games coming out for it.

11Marcel

lol...kojima doesn't use CGI in his games.

Anyone who buys a Wii or a 360 says BR is not needed. Because it's not this gen.

P.S.

How many hundreds of BR is needed threads are there going to be this gen?

My guess is around 10,000 + or - 500.

Anyone who buys a Wii or a 360 says BR is not needed. Because it's not this gen.

P.S.

How many hundreds of BR is needed threads are there going to be this gen?

My guess is around 10,000 + or - 500.

Truth_Hurts_U

lol they need to justify having it...frankly it depends on the game, does anyone here really know what they are filling the disk with? IMO 95% of current games need no more than DVD9 but then again I don't know if certain games are being restricted currently...

What I do know if lets say for instance I have to harddrive(hd) ...hd1 hold 20gigs and hd2 hold 40gigs and lets say I have movies and music on eachone....bare with me here i will make a point...lets say hd1 I have only the essentials like my favorite music and movies but hd2 also has all those plus song I downloaded but I hardly if ever listen to them and movies I watch 1ce but never really need to watch them again...see where I am going with this? it might be a bad analogy

but hd1 will make me clean up that space to make sure I have space for my most watched movies and music make me diligent about what I put on there because I only have so much room to play with so I make sure only my favorite stuff is on there because I have limited space

hd2 I might not care as much and I let files sit on there that airn't really necessary but I have the space so who care if somethings are on there that I don't care about I can let them sit there because I have the space so who cares

its the same with Dev's they will have to work extra hard on optimizing code and compression to make sure there stuff can fit on DVD9

with Blu-Ray they can fill it up quickly with stuff that may or may not even make a difference and they don't need to work or compressing and optimizing...again we have no idea what they are putting on thoses disks

 but when I have all kinds of extra space on my HD i am not as discriminate...was that a bad analogy I am tired and it made sense to me but I have a feeling I am going to get flamed :)

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Heri012

Hmmm. These are devs that only release games the on the playstation!

So without BR we would'nt have Oblivion and Gears.

the lemmings will say anything thats not on Xbox 360 is not needed. :lol:

Blu-ray, Wi-Fi, free online, you name it.

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Heri012

the lemmings will say anything thats not on Xbox 360 is not needed. :lol:

Blu-ray, Wi-Fi, free online, you name it.

 

 

Game13a13y

the only thing x360 needs is more realiable hardware.

the only thing ps3 needs is to be less expensive.

i would buy a ps3 right now but first i am saving money to buy a 1080p television.

[QUOTE="Heri012"]

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Zero-G_basic

Perhaps there's a reason for that? 

the lemmings will say anything thats not on Xbox 360 is not needed. :lol:

Blu-ray, Wi-Fi, free online, you name it.

Game13a13y

not true man its just weird because you guys make it out like the size of games have exponentially exploded 10 fold in like two years...as I stated I am sure some game could uses the extra space but you make it seem like its limiting Dev's its not they can now just go crazy with Blu-Ray but do they "need" too...has it made PS3 games better? In the future there will be a need for BR or someother bigger medium...but Sony forced BR to secure market share not because it was "needed" but you tell yourself whatever you need too to justify your $600 purchase

[QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

the lemmings will say anything thats not on Xbox 360 is not needed. :lol:

Blu-ray, Wi-Fi, free online, you name it.

Medjai

not true man its just weird because you guys make it out like the size of games have expontentially expoloded 10 fold in like two years...as I stated I am sure some game could uses the extra space but you make it seem like its limiting Dev's its not they can now just go crazy with Blu-Ray but do they "need" too...has it made PS3 games better? In the future there will be a need for BR or someother bigger medium...but Sony forced BR to secure market share not because it was "needed" but you tell yourself whatever you need too to justify your $600 purchase

ok, i agree on the forcing blu-ray player on PS 3 part. but so? its not like it cost you tons of money.

do you know how much a typical blu-ray player costs now in the market? about $800, so buying a PS 3 with Blu-ray drive for $600 and it can play game is a steal.

[QUOTE="Medjai"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

the lemmings will say anything thats not on Xbox 360 is not needed. :lol:

Blu-ray, Wi-Fi, free online, you name it.

Game13a13y

not true man its just weird because you guys make it out like the size of games have expontentially expoloded 10 fold in like two years...as I stated I am sure some game could uses the extra space but you make it seem like its limiting Dev's its not they can now just go crazy with Blu-Ray but do they "need" too...has it made PS3 games better? In the future there will be a need for BR or someother bigger medium...but Sony forced BR to secure market share not because it was "needed" but you tell yourself whatever you need too to justify your $600 purchase

ok, i agree on the forcing blu-ray player on PS 3 part. but so? its not like it cost you tons of money.

do you know how much a typical blu-ray player costs now in the market? about $800, so buying a PS 3 with Blu-ray drive for $600 and it can play game is a steal.

Game engines only take up a very small amount of space relative to the assets(pre rendered video(if applicable), models, high bitrate sound, etc) there are things that Dev's can do compression methods at the like to cut down on the excess space theses assets take up...take a game like DMC 4, I guarantee you that the PS version will be larger in terms of size but equal in terms of content to the 360 version but the game will come on 1DVD or 1BD...why because it took them extra work to make it fit on DVD...but does that mean they needed BR?

Game engines only take up a very small amount of space relative to the assets(pre rendered video(if applicable), models, high bitrate sound, etc) there are things that Dev's can do compression methods at the like to cut down on the excess space theses assets take up...take a game like DMC 4, I guarantee you that the PS version will be larger in terms of size but equal in terms of content to the 360 version but the game will come on 1DVD or 1BD...why because it took them extra work to make it fit on DVD...but does that mean they needed BR?

Medjai

alright, don't take me as one of those block heads here in SW. and i'm not a sony fanboy either. :wink:

so i was saying its not needed for ALL games, just a few for now, and more for the future. so eventually games will take up that many space and fitting it all in a DVD will be a tough job.

Game engines only take up a very small amount of space relative to the assets(pre rendered video(if applicable), models, high bitrate sound, etc) there are things that Dev's can do compression methods at the like to cut down on the excess space theses assets take up...take a game like DMC 4, I guarantee you that the PS version will be larger in terms of size but equal in terms of content to the 360 version but the game will come on 1DVD or 1BD...why because it took them extra work to make it fit on DVD...but does that mean they needed BR?

Medjai

alright, don't take me as one of those block heads here in SW. and i'm not a sony fanboy either. :wink:

so i was saying its not needed for ALL games, just a few for now, and more for the future. so eventually games will take up that many space and fitting it all in a DVD will be a tough job.

Can I just note here that the need for BR depends on the dev? For example Kojima uses lots of CGI in his games, so he needs lots of space for it. Naughty Dog and Insomniac are first party sony (if I'm not mistaken), so you shouldn't give to much value to their words.

I've said it before: PS3 needs blue ray, while it isn't necessary for xbox 360 because of the games coming out for it.

11Marcel

If you had played an MGS game of new anything about them you would know that he never uses CGI in his games. 

Listen, we have no clue whether it will be needed or not.  Is it needed right now?  No, without question.  But we all know, at least those of us who have been gaming since before Xbox and PS2, that the games are going to get more intense.

We just started making games that are in HD.  Who knows where the technology will take us.  It takes a lot of data to bring quality to the table.  And compression isn't necessarily quality's friend.  Have you ever compared an uncompressed AVI video file with a highly compressed Mpeg-2 file made for DVD???  Its not even funny how the quality and file size differ.

Lemmings do have the present and past to stand on with this issue.  And as I stated, they're correct in saying BD is not needed, right now.  But you have to be smoking something to not see that soon, not more than 5 years, large capacity disc media will be needed in games or at least the games that are with a crap.

this is where MS has done all the lemmings an injustice.  Because when that happens, whether its BD, HD-DVD or some other new medium, lemmings are going to have to go out and either replace their console or buy an external disc player.  That's why its so hard for lemmings to admit that a new disc media is needed soon.  If they admitted to that, they'd have to admit to making a mistake by buying a console that came out too early.

[QUOTE="Medjai"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

the lemmings will say anything thats not on Xbox 360 is not needed. :lol:

Blu-ray, Wi-Fi, free online, you name it.

Game13a13y

not true man its just weird because you guys make it out like the size of games have expontentially expoloded 10 fold in like two years...as I stated I am sure some game could uses the extra space but you make it seem like its limiting Dev's its not they can now just go crazy with Blu-Ray but do they "need" too...has it made PS3 games better? In the future there will be a need for BR or someother bigger medium...but Sony forced BR to secure market share not because it was "needed" but you tell yourself whatever you need too to justify your $600 purchase

ok, i agree on the forcing blu-ray player on PS 3 part. but so? its not like it cost you tons of money.

do you know how much a typical blu-ray player costs now in the market? about $800, so buying a PS 3 with Blu-ray drive for $600 and it can play game is a steal.

alright, don't take me as one of those block heads here in SW. and i'm not a sony fanboy either. :wink:

so i was saying its not needed for ALL games, just a few for now, and more for the future. so eventually games will take up that many space and fitting it all in a DVD will be a tough job.

Game13a13y

sorry didn't mean to offend wasn't taking you for a "blockhead"  just explaining my case the best my blockheaded self knows how :)

Can I just note here that the need for BR depends on the dev? For example Kojima uses lots of CGI in his games, so he needs lots of space for it. Naughty Dog and Insomniac are first party sony (if I'm not mistaken), so you shouldn't give to much value to their words.

I've said it before: PS3 needs blue ray, while it isn't necessary for xbox 360 because of the games coming out for it.

11Marcel

you lose. 

Listen, we have no clue whether it will be needed or not.  Is it needed right now?  No, without question.  But we all know, at least those of us who have been gaming since before Xbox and PS2, that the games are going to get more intense.

We just started making games that are in HD.  Who knows where the technology will take us.  It takes a lot of data to bring quality to the table.  And compression isn't necessarily quality's friend.  Have you ever compared an uncompressed AVI video file with a highly compressed Mpeg-2 file made for DVD???  Its not even funny how the quality and file size differ.

Lemmings do have the present and past to stand on with this issue.  And as I stated, they're correct in saying BD is not needed, right now.  But you have to be smoking something to not see that soon, not more than 5 years, large capacity disc media will be needed in games or at least the games that are with a crap.

this is where MS has done all the lemmings an injustice.  Because when that happens, whether its BD, HD-DVD or some other new medium, lemmings are going to have to go out and either replace their console or buy an external disc player.  That's why its so hard for lemmings to admit that a new disc media is needed soon.  If they admitted to that, they'd have to admit to making a mistake by buying a console that came out too early.

dubvisions

I agree with everthing you said to a point...but in 3-5years when a new medium is needed xbox 720(or whatever they call it) will be ready and waiting

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Heri012

I believe the point "lems" are trying to make is, game devs that are working on X360 games only have also said BR is not needed....at least to make X360 games.

Do I expect MS devs to admit BR is great and something they would like to have and just might limit what they can do, absolutely not.  But if you are going to quote SOE devs, you also have to consider that MS devs say the opposite.

[QUOTE="Zero-G_basic"][QUOTE="Heri012"]

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Vampyronight

Perhaps there's a reason for that? 

and the reason is they are hyping their gameson their console

Personally I dont think Blu-Ray is needed right now, and I will tell you why. Right now some developers are talking about including full Hi-Def movies bundeled with thier games on one disc for the PS3. For the forciable future I dont see Blu-Ray giving PS3 gamers any major advantage over others. I am sure Blu-Ray is nice and if it wins the format war then almost everyone will follow suit, but right now it is not necessary. If worse comes to worse X-Box will have to resort to the old and trusted method of swapping discs near the end of its life.

I agree with everthing you said to a point...but in 3-5years when a new medium is needed xbox 720(or whatever they call it) will be ready and waitingMedjai

Wow, 3 years and a new Xbox?

Can I just note here that the need for BR depends on the dev? For example Kojima uses lots of CGI in his games, so he needs lots of space for it. Naughty Dog and Insomniac are first party sony (if I'm not mistaken), so you shouldn't give to much value to their words.

I've said it before: PS3 needs blue ray, while it isn't necessary for xbox 360 because of the games coming out for it.

11Marcel

lmao kojima never uses CGI. i take it you never played a MGS game before uh? its all in game

For example Kojima uses lots of CGI in his games, so he needs lots of space for it.

 

11Marcel

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Just ask yourselves one question:  If BR was needed for creating hi-def games...would the Xbox360 have any games? 

nuff said.

Hmmm. These are devs that only release games the on the playstation!

So without BR we would'nt have Oblivion and Gears.

lazerluke

Here is what the maker of gears has to say about dvd9:

"Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going
to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't
know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be
using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks."
--------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=125925

This is coming from the VP of Epic... the company that's making Gears
of War & Unreal Tournament. Not some Japanese developer. Not for a
game full of CGI movies. No, this is a Western developer of FPS-type
games. And even they are complaining about the lack of capacity of the
disks the 360 will be using.

Are there any doubts left that Blu Ray was not only the wise decision,
but a completely necessary one?

You can start the damage control now :lol:

[QUOTE="dubvisions"]

Listen, we have no clue whether it will be needed or not.  Is it needed right now?  No, without question.  But we all know, at least those of us who have been gaming since before Xbox and PS2, that the games are going to get more intense.

We just started making games that are in HD.  Who knows where the technology will take us.  It takes a lot of data to bring quality to the table.  And compression isn't necessarily quality's friend.  Have you ever compared an uncompressed AVI video file with a highly compressed Mpeg-2 file made for DVD???  Its not even funny how the quality and file size differ.

Lemmings do have the present and past to stand on with this issue.  And as I stated, they're correct in saying BD is not needed, right now.  But you have to be smoking something to not see that soon, not more than 5 years, large capacity disc media will be needed in games or at least the games that are with a crap.

this is where MS has done all the lemmings an injustice.  Because when that happens, whether its BD, HD-DVD or some other new medium, lemmings are going to have to go out and either replace their console or buy an external disc player.  That's why its so hard for lemmings to admit that a new disc media is needed soon.  If they admitted to that, they'd have to admit to making a mistake by buying a console that came out too early.

Medjai

I agree with everthing you said to a point...but in 3-5years when a new medium is needed xbox 720(or whatever they call it) will be ready and waiting

You just made my point.  You know, the one you agreed with me up to.  How lame is it that is 3-5 years you're having to replace that $400 system?  So, theoretically, in a ten year span, i will have spent $600 on a PS3 and lemmings will have spent at ;east $800 on two systems.  Nice work ;).

Can I just note here that the need for BR depends on the dev? For example Kojima uses lots of CGI in his games, so he needs lots of space for it. Naughty Dog and Insomniac are first party sony (if I'm not mistaken), so you shouldn't give to much value to their words.

I've said it before: PS3 needs blue ray, while it isn't necessary for xbox 360 because of the games coming out for it.

11Marcel

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH OMFG I have to sig that

"Kojima uses a lot of CGI in his games," omfg have you EVER played MGS in your life? LOL :lol:

BR will be needed down the line trust me it's already starting to show in a few games and down the road you'll see it more in other games. Just look at what people said about the PS2 and DVD and that it wasn't needed and who cares when you could still buy a DVD player now look DVD is the mainstream we've come down the line for that and it's time to move on to the next-gen format of HD which is Blu-Ray and HD-DVD more so Blu-Ray though considering more companies support it.

Hmmm. These are devs that only release games the on the playstation!

So without BR we would'nt have Oblivion and Gears.

lazerluke

So why hasent a dev comes out and said its not needed. You could think that if those saying that just becuase they dev games for the ps3 other devs should come out and said its BS.

[QUOTE="lazerluke"]

Hmmm. These are devs that only release games the on the playstation!

So without BR we would'nt have Oblivion and Gears.

Rip870

So why hasent a dev comes out and said its not needed. You could think that if those saying that just becuase they dev games for the ps3 other devs should come out and said its BS.

Epic has already said dvd9 is too small for the gears and unreal sequels or did ya'll not see my post on the last page. 

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Heri012

looking at your list i'd say devs making exclusive ps3 games say it.  

[QUOTE="Game13a13y"][QUOTE="Medjai"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

the lemmings will say anything thats not on Xbox 360 is not needed. :lol:

Blu-ray, Wi-Fi, free online, you name it.

Zero-G_basic

not true man its just weird because you guys make it out like the size of games have expontentially expoloded 10 fold in like two years...as I stated I am sure some game could uses the extra space but you make it seem like its limiting Dev's its not they can now just go crazy with Blu-Ray but do they "need" too...has it made PS3 games better? In the future there will be a need for BR or someother bigger medium...but Sony forced BR to secure market share not because it was "needed" but you tell yourself whatever you need too to justify your $600 purchase

ok, i agree on the forcing blu-ray player on PS 3 part. but so? its not like it cost you tons of money.

do you know how much a typical blu-ray player costs now in the market? about $800, so buying a PS 3 with Blu-ray drive for $600 and it can play game is a steal.

:lol: there goes the saying of i don't need HDMI,  i don't need Blu-ray, i don't need motion-sensing controller, i don't need a newer chip that don't overheat, i don't need folding@home , i don' tneed Wi-Fi...

everything that is not on Xbox 360, ya thats why you don't need it right?

Which one is true? From the game dev itself who thinking ahead for future or from blind fanboy who don`t know anything but want everything related to Sony is flop?

Note : Kojima said BR is needed, Naughty Dog said BR is needed, Imsoniac said BR is needed. For now I never heard game dev said BR is not needed....

Heri012

Well its not only Kojima..but others too..I just dont listen to lemmings..lol..they dont know anythin.. 

my thing is, PS3 games cost the same as 360 games and yet hold more space on ps3 games. We all know blu ray is expensive so why M$ still overcharges for games? Why do fans continue to get milked by M$?xboxps2cube

well that a good point but still BR is not needed its only better.