Game with the most convoluted story?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Metal gear series for sure. FFVII is another example, if you take the entire compilation as a whole. Xenogears and Xenosaga is another example. Chrono Cross as well. Final Fantasy Tactics toa degree, but the translation to the game was poor. A story gets convoluted when a director does not know how to handle the depth he has.VoodooHak

Xenogears/Xenosaga handled their depth perfectly well. Better than FFT. But you're right in that at times FFVII could be muddled.

Chrono Cross had depth?

No, Xenogears/saga were pretty pretentious. There was little to no subtley with the "message" they were trying to convey. But once you made peace with the pretense, empathy with the characters and the epic journey stole the show.

But yes, it was heavy handed with their overarching themes.

Well, I think there comes a point where a story has to take itself seriously in order to be good. The better the plot is, the more valid it is for the plot to take itself seriously. So yes, maybe we can consider them "pretentious" in that they expect their stories to be taken seriously, but I think it's a bit of a misnomer to use the word on it becuase it has a negative connotation, where the effects of the two plots taking themselves seriously is a good thing.

In other words, the meaning may apply but when conjoined with the connotation the word has it doesn't really accurately describe Xenogears/Xenosaga.

[QUOTE="Sniping_Crowbar"]Metal gears Series, beacasue i loved the firstone first one was great, i played the second one annnnnd...all i got as some crazy stuff some dude was jack the ripper and the rpesident was the other brother or something, im sorry but that story was super super B mvie bad, lol.BigBoss154

Jack the Ripper was Raiden's nick name when he was a child soldier in the Liberian Civil War. And Solidus being the president and orchestrating the Shadow Moses Incident with Ocelot was a great twist, IMO. Hardly B-Movie status.

lol that sounds like a b-movie, and it was

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]I love when you can see a topic title and just know what it's going to be about. I knew this was basically going to boil down to a MGS/Kingdom Hears bash fest. Ding ding ding!hakanakumono

MGS, as flawed as it may be, is leagues ahead of the mess that is KH.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] Because nobody could genuinely not enjoy those stories, of course.felipebo

MGS, as flawed as it may be, is leagues ahead of the mess that is KH.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] Because nobody could genuinely not enjoy those stories, of course.NAPK1NS

MGS, as flawed as it may be, is leagues ahead of the mess that is KH.

That's because the story is utter nonsense.

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

MGS, as flawed as it may be, is leagues ahead of the mess that is KH.

That's because the story is utter nonsense.

What is this message that Xenosaga takes seriously? Sorry I've never played the game but all these arguments about it got me interested.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]Ugg, too true. What is so annoying about KH's story is that it produces all of these spin-offs, giving itself ample opportunities to answer some of the series questions but never takes advantage of it. Instead, it makes all of these other plot threads and layers it on even thicker! Skittles_McGee

That's because the story is utter nonsense.

I think characters can be great even in the midst of a bad story/ no story. Look at Metroid, I can't wait to become Samus again, even though there was little story in the series asa whole. And I love Cid Highwind from FF7, even though I din't understand the overarching plot.

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]I love when you can see a topic title and just know what it's going to be about. I knew this was basically going to boil down to a MGS/Kingdom Hears bash fest. Ding ding ding!Skittles_McGee

Killer 7.

What is this message that Xenosaga takes seriously? Sorry I've never played the game but all these arguments about it got me interested.

g-rash

There is no single "message" in Xenosaga. Think about a universe full of conflict, but without "good" and "evil."

That being said, I just recalled one horribly pretentious scene in the 3rd game, which GS won't let me post due to "HTML" issues. Other than that, solid gold.

Metal Gear Solid as a series has so many moments that are just excessively stupid. I do however admire the series for the following things

-Ambition. I may hate the ending to MGS 4 and the heavy use of nanomachines as a plot device, but how many games go to hell and back to deliver a clear message? Not many so for that Kojima gets props

-Characters. Sure they are silly, wack, and just insane in some cases, but they are also memorable and likeable for those reasons. MGS 4 ruined a few of them for me though(specifically Raiden, Vamp, and Ocelot).

-Gampelay. It was and has always been more action/stealth than the pure stealth that Splintercell and Theif were. You know what. It was fun. MGS was never a boring series to play, the boss fights were memorale, and the gameplay was always enjoyable from start to finish.

-Rebellious Nature. Metal Gear Solid does things in terms of story telling, plot, and design that NO other franchise would ever in a million years get away with. That alone deserves some praise :P

It's still one of my favorite franchises and I still LOVE Metal Gear Solid 1 and Metal Gear Solid 3. 2 and 4 are still very good games(great games even)

Modern Warfare 2.*shakes head*