Game X uses Y% of console Z's power

Please stop with these threads. This is not how programming works people. Every game, on every console, uses 100% of that consoles power to run the game.

The idea of '%' to explain performance is based off ASSUMPTIONS of OPTIMIZATIONS, and even then only to VERY SPECIFIC AREAS. You can speed up something 500% through optimization but in the grand scheme of the game actually offers you very little benefit. If im calculating Ai routines and im capable of speeding up these calculations a great deal it DOES NOT MATTER if the overall system is bottlenecked somehwere else, which isnt affected by this change.

Well, we can tell a big difference in GOW and GOW2 on the PS2. Can we say that GOW was using less of the hardware power than the GOW2 did?King_of_Sorrow

No actually, from a real perspective that is a completely wrong way to say that. They both used the same power of the system. GOW2 was just optimized better. You cant give optimizations a %, as they are very specific codepaths to very specific functions.

[QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"]Well, we can tell a big difference in GOW and GOW2 on the PS2. Can we say that GOW was using less of the hardware power than the GOW2 did?Cali3350

No actually, from a real perspective that is a completely wrong way to say that. They both used the same power of the system. GOW2 was just optimized better. You cant give optimizations a %, as they are very specific codepaths to very specific functions.

I understand. Can we say that the optimization of the game is causing a more efficient use of the hardware?

[QUOTE="Cali3350"]

[QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"]Well, we can tell a big difference in GOW and GOW2 on the PS2. Can we say that GOW was using less of the hardware power than the GOW2 did?King_of_Sorrow

No actually, from a real perspective that is a completely wrong way to say that. They both used the same power of the system. GOW2 was just optimized better. You cant give optimizations a %, as they are very specific codepaths to very specific functions.

I understand. Can we say that the optimization of the game is causing a more efficient use of the hardware?

Absolutely. Thats the truth. But to say GOW used 50% of the PS2's power because in your opinion GOW2 looks100% better is arbitrary and wrong.

Definite %'s give the very wrong impression about how games look and will progress.

Absolutely. Thats the truth. But to say GOW used 50% of the PS2's power because in your opinion GOW2 looks100% better is arbitrary and wrong.

Definite %'s give the very wrong impression about how games look and will progress.

Cali3350

So we can also place a percentage of the efficiency of the hardware for each game? i.e. GOW has a 45% efficient rate, whereas GOW2 has 90%. I know most devs dumb it down and call it "power" for people to understand, but we can still assume that Uncharted is using a 30% efficiency of the hardware, right?

[QUOTE="Cali3350"]

Absolutely. Thats the truth. But to say GOW used 50% of the PS2's power because in your opinion GOW2 looks100% better is arbitrary and wrong.

Definite %'s give the very wrong impression about how games look and will progress.

King_of_Sorrow

So we can also place a percentage of the efficiency of the hardware for each game? i.e. GOW has a 45% efficient rate, whereas GOW2 has 90%. I know most devs dumb it down and call it "power" for people to understand, but we can still assume that Uncharted is using a 30% efficiency of the hardware, right?

Some portion of its code is using 30% (an arbitrary number picked by the dev, not a real number) of the peak efficiency. That doesnt mean optimizing your code to achieve 90% efficiency (again a completely arbitrary number) will result in a better looking game.

Modern game engines are created with multiple threads in mind. If you have 3 threads running, base game code, audio, and AI, and your audio code is running at 30% efficiency (arbitrary) and you optimize it to run better without effecting the other portions your game the bottleneck iss till your other two threads resulting in a game that doesnt run nor look better. Youll just process audio more efficiently.

What the other thread mean is that the PS3's games can be optimized roughly 70% better than what they are now. It's just a matter of time before the devs learn the system fully and can optimize it properly.AIH_PSP

Which in now way promises better looking games. If your rendering engine isnt made to push more pixels your not gonna push more pixels.

Its possible further work on the platform will result in a few gains here and there, but it absolutely DOES NOT MEAN a game will look 70% better.

[QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"][QUOTE="Cali3350"]

Absolutely. Thats the truth. But to say GOW used 50% of the PS2's power because in your opinion GOW2 looks100% better is arbitrary and wrong.

Definite %'s give the very wrong impression about how games look and will progress.

Cali3350

So we can also place a percentage of the efficiency of the hardware for each game? i.e. GOW has a 45% efficient rate, whereas GOW2 has 90%. I know most devs dumb it down and call it "power" for people to understand, but we can still assume that Uncharted is using a 30% efficiency of the hardware, right?

Some portion of its code is using 30% (an arbitrary number picked by the dev, not a real number) of the peak efficiency. That doesnt mean optimizing your code to achieve 90% efficiency (again a completely arbitrary number) will result in a better looking game.

Modern game engines are created with multiple threads in mind. If you have 3 threads running, base game code, audio, and AI, and your audio code is running at 30% efficiency (arbitrary) and you optimize it to run better without effecting the other portions your game the bottleneck iss till your other two threads resulting in a game that doesnt run nor look better. Youll just process audio more efficiently.

Understood. I'm just expressing that it can be a percentage number to express the overall "power" of the game.

Your explaining this weird.

As they get more experienced with the console, Devs can utilize the CPU and GPU to obtain better performance.

Your explaining this weird.

As they get more experienced with the console, Devs can utilize the CPU and GPU to obtain better performance.

Vorserider2

The issue im trying to address here is that when devs say a game is using 30% of the power are:

1) Thats a horrible way to say how well optimized your game is

2) That doesnt mean games will start looking 100% better when they start optimizing better.

Please stop with these threads. This is not how programming works people. Every game, on every console, uses 100% of that consoles power to run the game.

The idea of '%' to explain performance is based off ASSUMPTIONS of OPTIMIZATIONS, and even then only to VERY SPECIFIC AREAS. You can speed up something 500% through optimization but in the grand scheme of the game actually offers you very little benefit. If im calculating Ai routines and im capable of speeding up these calculations a great deal it DOES NOT MATTER if the overall system is bottlenecked somehwere else, which isnt affected by this change.

Cali3350

agreed

Yes, good thread TC, but I'm sure I was told that KillZone 2 is using up only 20.03% of PS3's hardware. I think it's the bit that cures cancer.Optusnet

i just loled :D

[QUOTE="Vorserider2"]

Your explaining this weird.

As they get more experienced with the console, Devs can utilize the CPU and GPU to obtain better performance.

Cali3350

The issue im trying to address here is that when devs say a game is using 30% of the power are:

1) Thats a horrible way to say how well optimized your game is

2) That doesnt mean games will start looking 100% better when they start optimizing better.

In all reailty, they will. As time goes on, Devs will be able to give more code to the CPU and GPU to create better performance.

Dont believe me? Look at a launch PS2 game and compare it with GoW2.

[QUOTE="Cali3350"][QUOTE="Vorserider2"]

Your explaining this weird.

As they get more experienced with the console, Devs can utilize the CPU and GPU to obtain better performance.

Vorserider2

The issue im trying to address here is that when devs say a game is using 30% of the power are:

1) Thats a horrible way to say how well optimized your game is

2) That doesnt mean games will start looking 100% better when they start optimizing better.

In all reailty, they will. As time goes on, Devs will be able to give more code to the CPU and GPU to create better performance.

Dont believe me? Look at a launch PS2 game and compare it with GoW2.

Im more trying to address the issue of "Uncharted uses 30% of PS3's power" or "Gears of War = 20% of Xbox360 used!"

Games will not be leaps and bounds ahead of these games.