gameplay is not about the controller!!! (to sheep)

TC, you need a serious education in gaming.  Changes in controllers were always necessary to advance gameplay, FACT.  When they invented the dpad, guess what? All of a sudden you could have mulidirectional control of characters.  THe snes had more buttons than the genisis and the NES, and that allowed for more options in gaming, involving deeper fighting games and rpgs.   The move to 3D gaming required a new tech, the analog joystick.  That allowed for precision movement that could be pushed softer or harder to move slower or faster. 

 And now, the wii has made a new advancement.  The only argument you could make is that it's not needed for gaming.  The fact is though, that whether its development was organic or not, it will mean that the wii will have a whole different experience than the other consoles.  -also, I for one think that the wiimote is the next advancement in controls.  THe wiimote's cursor pointer in particular, which allows for much quicker aiming and selection and eliminates the need for lock on mechanics.  I always thought of motion sensing as the "gimmick", although wiiisports only uses motion sensing and I love that game.  At any rate, you lose

if i told you that sony may have came up with a way to use the eye toy with conjunction with some games to simulate ur motions within the game, wouldent u say thats more impressive than the wiimote.

dane-cook-sucks

Only if it worked for complete games, not for mini games where it's a picture of you whacking flying objects on the screen.

Eyetoy had terrible content on the PS2.

In any case, weren't you arguing that controls aren't important? 

i hate it when sheep try and justify their system's greatness when compared to ps3 and 360 by playing the same old card of gameplay being more important than graphics. Ya it is, and wii doesent have it, lol.

Gameplay is not about how the game is played, its how the game itself plays. Basically its about immersion, and guess what, greater immersion in games requires greater technical power. something that the wii lacks.

For example, euphoria engine, lifelike movements, advanced ai, unscripted animation, vast enemies on screen, richly detailed (yes im bringing up graphics) environments, those are what make an immersive experience. Why do you think many games come out for 360 and ps3, but not for wii, especially technically intensive ones.

The cpu powers of the ps3 and 360 have what it takes (for now and a few more years) to provide such  an immerisive experience. The wiis overclocked gamecube cpu does not only fail in graphics, but also in every other area as well. Maybe now the graphical suckiness is negligble, but wait a few more years for wii to show how obsolete it is.

Right now the wii is running on price and a controller (well i might add). But remember that a controller is just an input.

AN INPUT!!! Which means that any company can come out with a similar input. What if sony came out with a Piimote ( funny i know) with bluetooth wirless built in so you dont need a stupid motion detection bar on top your tv? then what?

patents aside, any of the rival consoles can make similar or superior motion controllers, after that, all sheep will have left is their precious 1st party titles.

P.s. on another note, most non-hardcore consumers would pick the ps3 if all consoles were similarly price, because of brand recognition and technical superiority.

dane-cook-sucks

1. I'd like to see how trauma center controls on a 360 controller.   It would be far worse than Wii.  

2. Rayman scored higher on Wii than 360 by nearly a full point. 

3. If 360 had Mii creation...creating them would be far more of a hassle on a 360 controller than Wii. 

4. Twilight Princess is highly regarded from most sites as having better controls on Wii. 

5. Wii Tennis and bowling are far more fun than other sports games and more immersive...even if they are simplistic in nature.

Wii has the gameplay capability. I blame developers (Ubisoft...I curse you on most Wii ports!!).  Porting a game from 360 to Wii is not going to work.  Developers are not putting in the effort with ports.  Wii doesn't have the graphics capabilities either, so it might be harder to make a Wii port of a 360 game than a PS3 port of a 360 game. 

What devs need to do is create EXCLUSIVE games on Wii from the ground up to take advantage of the controls.  And if Wii keeps selling at this rate, that is exactly what is going to happen. 

Nintendo has always innovated the industry when it comes to console controls.  Rumble, D-pad, shoulder buttons, 1st "perfect" console wireless controller, true analog, 1st handheld tilt control, underbelly button, etc. 

Nintendo did millions of dollars in research trying to find a way to innovate the industry.  They spent most of the money on the motion contolling.  Is motion sensing new?  No. But on consoles, to have this much freedom for motion-sensing, it is new. 

Bottom line...Nintendo has a new controller innovation EVERY CONSOLE GENERATION.  I'm not about to doubt the capabilities of the wii controller.  Blame the devs, not the controller!

[QUOTE="dane-cook-sucks"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"]

I think this sums it up pretty well:

[QUOTE="dane-cook-sucks"] Gameplay is not about how the game is playedbrightshadow525

... yeah. Think about that one for a bit.

playing baseball, you use a bat, u can change that to a hockey stick, but the game is still the same, u play the game in a different fashion, but the game is still the same old same old. This is a bad example but immersion in games is a better one.

Yea... Terrible example... If anything the hockey stick would break or you'd get as far as a baseball bat could if it bunted...  Either way... You have no idea what you're talking about.  Please, instead of posting here, take this time to look up what the Wii is (Hint: It can play video games), then come back and see if you know what you're saying. 

like im going to take advice from an extremist fanboy (your pathetic wii-code gave you away). Im not a fanboy im just a nintendo and dane cook hater.

[QUOTE="brightshadow525"][QUOTE="dane-cook-sucks"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"]

thats because sony didnt really on a gimick too hard when creating their console, they just came out with that piece of crap to compete with nintendo.

dane-cook-sucks

Then why were you arguing about it in the first place?

please re-read my topic, my point is the controller is an input and all inputs can be copied and if sony and microsoft could legally copy the wiimote, the wii would be rendered weak in every which way.

Guess what. Nobody can legally copy the Wiimote. Nintendo thought up of it. You just said that if Sony thought up of better ideas then they would be better.

if i told you that sony may have came up with a way to use the eye toy with conjunction with some games to simulate ur motions within the game, wouldent u say thats more impressive than the wiimote.

What does that have to do with this argument? 

like im going to take advice from an extremist fanboy (your pathetic wii-code gave you away). Im not a fanboy im just a nintendo and dane cook hater.

dane-cook-sucks

Which means that you're not here to give or receive advice, you're here to spread stupid, uninformed, biased opinions about a company you hate.

"p.s. on another note, most non-hardcore consumers would pick the ps3 if all consoles were similarly price, because of brand recognition and technical superiority."

Well, I must say, that was a pretty dumb statement to throw in there...

Ganon_919

the brand recognition part wasn't stupid...and most non-hardcore gamers would look at the games.

[QUOTE="brightshadow525"][QUOTE="dane-cook-sucks"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"]

I think this sums it up pretty well:

[QUOTE="dane-cook-sucks"] Gameplay is not about how the game is playeddane-cook-sucks

... yeah. Think about that one for a bit.

playing baseball, you use a bat, u can change that to a hockey stick, but the game is still the same, u play the game in a different fashion, but the game is still the same old same old. This is a bad example but immersion in games is a better one.

Yea... Terrible example... If anything the hockey stick would break or you'd get as far as a baseball bat could if it bunted... Either way... You have no idea what you're talking about. Please, instead of posting here, take this time to look up what the Wii is (Hint: It can play video games), then come back and see if you know what you're saying.

like im going to take advice from an extremist fanboy (your pathetic wii-code gave you away). Im not a fanboy im just a nintendo and dane cook hater.

If you are calling me an extremist fanboy (which I am not, Just proving you wrong all the time...), then aren't you basically the same if you are just on the other side of the spectrum? Me=fanboy You=hater. You're just as bad (probably worse) if you hate something extremely than if you love something extremely.

the reason the wiimote sucks is  cuz it can do light gun games . cuz with light gun games u point at the screeen  and not the  ir bar . another reason is cuz the controller wigzzz out alot .  rockstar183

The contoller won't wig out a lot if you have proper placement of the sensor bar.  The sensor bar really does allow a good range of motion.  Poor 3rd party ports can cause controller issues as well.  And people wonder why 3rd parties don't sell well on Nintendo consoles?  Make some good games with good contols.  It is not rocket science.  Instead, 3rd parties complain. 

Somebody just sounds angry because their system is flopping....and Wii is selling like Burgers at McDonalds (Soon to be over 99 Million sold)coltonnaslund

Umm... 99 million burgers or Wiis....? 

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"]

actually bluetooth is what they use in the ps3 controller for wireless communication with the ps3, and whatever motion sensing device is in the ps3 controller is transmitted via blue tooth so  u dont need to point at the screen. U can stand 10 feet away pointing at the oposite direction of ur tv and the motion will still move.

So sir, i have not been owned, u have ;)

dane-cook-sucks

         

It doesn't have an optical sensor, just an accelerometer which detects speed and a tilt sensor which detects, well, tilt.

but the fact that u have to point it at the tv and put a sensor bar on top is what would makes it less superior to a similar device which works through frequencies. remember that the wii mote only works at certain angles, but a wireless non IR device would work which ever direction u point it, so if u wanna use the end of a wii mote to bud a person in the head with the end of a gun like in an fps, u can do so without restriction.

[QUOTE="dane-cook-sucks"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"]

actually bluetooth is what they use in the ps3 controller for wireless communication with the ps3, and whatever motion sensing device is in the ps3 controller is transmitted via blue tooth so u dont need to point at the screen. U can stand 10 feet away pointing at the oposite direction of ur tv and the motion will still move.

So sir, i have not been owned, u have ;)

anasbouzid

It doesn't have an optical sensor, just an accelerometer which detects speed and a tilt sensor which detects, well, tilt.

but the fact that u have to point it at the tv and put a sensor bar on top is what would makes it less superior to a similar device which works through frequencies. remember that the wii mote only works at certain angles, but a wireless non IR device would work which ever direction u point it, so if u wanna use the end of a wii mote to bud a person in the head with the end of a gun like in an fps, u can do so without restriction.

Thank you for making it very clear so even dane-cook-sucks can read this. BTW nice Wiis in your sig... 

I think wii Sports is a good arguement against the TC. It has very poor graphic, but it is incredibly fun to play because of the wii mote. On any other console it would be the crappiest game of all time.

Also on gamespot you will notice that the reviews they split the ratings up into like 5 categories. Gameplay and graphics are two seperate categories and obviously are not connected.  

You are wrong.

Its not "just an input" ; its the means by which players IMPOSE their will on the gameplay. Its how they interact and engage in gameplay. To put it more simply its the gateway to gameplay. The smaller the gate the less gameplay you can attain/interact with.

Imagine being a scientist trying to interact with some substance through a protective casing, you've seen it; its like a glass box with these "gloves" attached that allow the scientist to interact with the materials. They stick there arms in and do their work without having to worry about radiation or other adverse effects.  

Now imagine instead of having arm-length gloves to utlize you only have room for your thumb; you can only access and manipulate the substance (this stands for gameplay) in a very small amount of ways.    Thats what it is like to play a game with a ps3/ps2/xbox/xbox360 controller.  Whereas with the wii you get full "arm-length" gloves that allow you to do FAR more.

Gameplay is like a substance we are trying to interact with in a glass box, much like scientists do in experiments. Standard old-gen gaming platforms only let you use your thumbs to interact with this "substance" (gameplay) and as such the gameplay design is limited. But the wii lets you do WORLDS more and as such the possible gameplay design for developers is MUCH more broad and not nearly as limited as traditional consoles like the ps3/360. 

i never said wiimote does not have bluetooth built-in, i said it should be used to wirelessly transmit the data stream from the motion sensing technology itself, like the six axis does. that way all pointing can be calibrated within the remote itself, instead of having to use an IR and sensor bar.

I have yet to be owned.

i never said wiimote does not have bluetooth built-in, i said it should be used to wirelessly transmit the data stream from the motion sensing technology itself, like the six axis does. that way all pointing can be calibrated within the remote itself, instead of having to use an IR and sensor bar.

I have yet to be owned.

dane-cook-sucks

the sensor bar is used to tell you where your screen is..

the six axis has no pointer, so it doesn't need a sensor bar

what exactly are you saying they need to "build in" to the wiimote

if you're tilting the wiimote, all the "motion sensing" is "calibrated" within the remote itself... considering tilt doesnt use the sensor bar

am i still misunderstanding you? because you're not exactly clear... 

ok dane-cook-sucks (your name is an abomination, btw)... im going to explain the things wrong with this thread to you in small words that aare easy for your tiny brain to comprehend (that means understand).

the wii remote HAS BLUE TOOTH. that is how it is connected to the system.  

the sensor bar is what makes it so the wii can pick up where the wii remote is pointing. without it, the wii remote cant point... BUT but controller STILL HAS MOTION SENSING. more than the six axis without its sensor bar. for games like excite truck and sonic, you dont even need the sensor bar plugged in, and the motion sensing still works.

us sheep havent brought up anything but the wii remote because THAT WAS YOUR ARGUEMENT.

and the wii graphics are 2x the gc, which was very close behind the xbox.

AND. the wii is selling very well. sales bring 3rd party support. 3rd party support brings games. games bring sales. its a neverending circle, where you get owned at every turn. 

ok dane-cook-sucks (your name is an abomination, btw)... im going to explain the things wrong with this thread to you in small words that aare easy for your tiny brain to comprehend (that means understand).

 

 

the wii remote HAS BLUE TOOTH. that is how it is connected to the system.  

 

the sensor bar is what makes it so the wii can pick up where the wii remote is pointing. without it, the wii remote cant point... BUT but controller STILL HAS MOTION SENSING. more than the six axis without its sensor bar. for games like excite truck and sonic, you dont even need the sensor bar plugged in, and the motion sensing still works.

 

us sheep havent brought up anything but the wii remote because THAT WAS YOUR ARGUEMENT.

 

and the wii graphics are 2x the gc, which was very close behind the xbox.

 

AND. the wii is selling very well. sales bring 3rd party support. 3rd party support brings games. games bring sales. its a neverending circle, where you get owned at every turn. 

HappySunnGuy

2x the gc and still close behind the original xbox, wow thats impressive (sarcasm)

i have yet to be owned

[QUOTE="HappySunnGuy"]

ok dane-cook-sucks (your name is an abomination, btw)... im going to explain the things wrong with this thread to you in small words that aare easy for your tiny brain to comprehend (that means understand).

 

 

the wii remote HAS BLUE TOOTH. that is how it is connected to the system.

 

the sensor bar is what makes it so the wii can pick up where the wii remote is pointing. without it, the wii remote cant point... BUT but controller STILL HAS MOTION SENSING. more than the six axis without its sensor bar. for games like excite truck and sonic, you dont even need the sensor bar plugged in, and the motion sensing still works.

 

us sheep havent brought up anything but the wii remote because THAT WAS YOUR ARGUEMENT.

 

and the wii graphics are 2x the gc, which was very close behind the xbox.

 

AND. the wii is selling very well. sales bring 3rd party support. 3rd party support brings games. games bring sales. its a neverending circle, where you get owned at every turn.

dane-cook-sucks

2x the gc and still close behind the original xbox, wow thats impressive (sarcasm)

i have yet to be owned

you have also yet to bring up my other points, and you took what i said out of contents. the gc was close behind the xbox, and the wii is damn far ahead of it. you said that it has gc like graphics... i cant wait for graphics whores like you to get owned by brawl, galaxy and corruption.

if your gonna try and deny ownage, deny all the points instead of taking what they said out of context and still failing,

lol, did u just say ps3 and 360 will be owned by graphics of mp3, smg and brawl, lol

gears will own them when they come out, and in the future, 360 and ps3 games will become more graphically superior as developers work with them more and even if the wii gets the same treatment, it will still lag behind.

so, again, i have yet to be owned, oh and any clear insults against me have been reported ;) , and one has been dealt with

How about...    2 8800 gtx's + 4 gig RAM  +  AMD 64 dual core + mouse and keyboard + Crysis

Okay, everyone here just got owned.

How about...    2 8800 gtx's + 4 gig RAM  +  AMD 64 dual core + mouse and keyboard + Crysis

Okay, everyone here just got owned.

rbush101a

no, thats super ownages, if thats ur system, i envy you very very much

long live hermits

How about...    2 8800 gtx's + 4 gig RAM  +  AMD 64 dual core + mouse and keyboard + Crysis

Okay, everyone here just got owned.

rbush101a

...

so, again, i have yet to be owned, oh and any clear insults against me have been reported ;) , and one has been dealt with

dane-cook-sucks

Yeah, tricky thing is, it still counts as an insult if it's true.

But if they banned the guy who insulted you the most it would be yourself.

Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea as you've shown several times that you're not ready to be involved in something like a discussion by any means. I know, that's not that big of a handicap in System Wars, but, excuse me, I'll discuss a bit with that wall over there, as it's probably a better discussion partner than you could possibly be, ever.

(You're just a troll, aren't you?)

Gameplay is not about how the game is played, its how the game itself plays. Basically its about immersion, and guess what, greater immersion in games requires greater technical power. something that the wii lacks.dane-cook-sucks

Immersion is separate from gameplay.  Many puzzle games have nothing to immerse you in the game, yet their gameplay is high.  I'm not sure you understand what gameplay is.  As far as immersion...

For example, euphoria engine, lifelike movements, advanced ai, unscripted animation, vast enemies on screen, richly detailed (yes im bringing up graphics) environments, those are what make an immersive experience.

They probably help, but Grim Fandango is still a very immersive game.  By today's standards, it is severly lacking in every one of the immersive examples you present.  Yes, eye-candy helps, but things like sound, art direction, and story often have a significant impact.

As far as "advanced AI", how many games even have it?  It's seems like many developers spend much more time making sure the grass reacts correctly from a breeze than they do putting in "advanced AI".

Which means that any company can come out with a similar input.

And with it not being the standard controller it'll have little support.  It'd be like the SNES mouse that came with Mario Paint.  There were what, like 3 games that supported it. 

ur name rids you of any credibility.Ospi

Dane Cook does suck! 

auctually, its ALL about the controller.

What part of a gaming system gets touched the most?

PS3/360 gameplay kills Wii's gameplay even more so then they do in graphics. Stronger hardware grants stronger gameplay.Silvereign

So that means Fuzion Frenzy is better than Zelda because it's on the 360?

so hows your next gen gameplay using that atari paddle? oh wait, it doesn't work... because input devices have evolved

"the six axis controller uses blue tooth to wirelessly transmit data, all pointing and motion sensing is done in the controller itself. "

tell me, do you really believe the sixaxis has pointing functionality?

TC, you need a serious education in gaming. Changes in controllers were always necessary to advance gameplay, FACT. When they invented the dpad, guess what? All of a sudden you could have mulidirectional control of characters. THe snes had more buttons than the genisis and the NES, and that allowed for more options in gaming, involving deeper fighting games and rpgs. The move to 3D gaming required a new tech, the analog joystick. That allowed for precision movement that could be pushed softer or harder to move slower or faster.

And now, the wii has made a new advancement. The only argument you could make is that it's not needed for gaming. The fact is though, that whether its development was organic or not, it will mean that the wii will have a whole different experience than the other consoles. -also, I for one think that the wiimote is the next advancement in controls. THe wiimote's cursor pointer in particular, which allows for much quicker aiming and selection and eliminates the need for lock on mechanics. I always thought of motion sensing as the "gimmick", although wiiisports only uses motion sensing and I love that game. At any rate, you lose

GunSmith1_basic

hm, that was actually a really good point, can see why the topic creater didn't reply to it. 

[QUOTE="Ospi"]ur name rids you of any credibility.miss_kitt3n

Dane Cook does suck!

Indeed. 

[QUOTE="BigBadButters"]you have showed your intelligence... first off, blue tooth has NOTHING to do with motion sensing. a "Piimote" would need some sort of sensing device to be as accurate as Wiis for pointing. Secondly, Wiimotes DO have Blue Tooth lol. it is just a wireless technology that sends information really quickly and efficiently. double owned.dane-cook-sucks

you have showed your intelligence... first off, blue tooth has NOTHING to do with motion sensing. a "Piimote" would need some sort of sensing device to be as accurate as Wiis for pointing. Secondly, Wiimotes DO have Blue Tooth lol. it is just a wireless technology that sends information really quickly and efficiently. double owned.BigBadButters

actually bluetooth is what they use in the ps3 controller for wireless communication with the ps3, and whatever motion sensing device is in the ps3 controller is transmitted via blue tooth so  u dont need to point at the screen. U can stand 10 feet away pointing at the oposite direction of ur tv and the motion will still move.

So sir, i have not been owned, u have ;)

Man you are a n00b. Bluetooth is wireless technology, get that through your head, it is used to communicate with the console as a source of input, as opposed to running a wire to the system. The Wiimote sensors are detected by the sensor bar, and the controller does not have to be pointed directly at it in order for it to work half the time since the motion sensing technology allows for the controller to be detected on any axis in existance. As opposed to the PS3 controller which only has tilt function in 6 different directions, left, right, up, down and rolling forwards or backwards, hence Sixaxis. The Wiimote can move in any direction humanly possible and is not limited to 6 motions.

[QUOTE="rbush101a"]

How about...    2 8800 gtx's + 4 gig RAM  +  AMD 64 dual core + mouse and keyboard + Crysis

Okay, everyone here just got owned.

dane-cook-sucks

no, thats super ownages, if thats ur system, i envy you very very much

long live hermits

nope, sadly it's not my system... i wish it was though!:P  Just that it's better than everything that everyone else is saying!:D