Games keep dropping like flies from digital stores! ayy lmao

@roler42: one is legal, the other isnt... dont even compare the two.

I'm sorry, wtf are you talking about? Nothing of that has any relevance towards the availability of games through DD.

And what would you have them do? Spend twice as many resources and way more than twice as much time investing into physical distribution means in the offchance some guy will be pissed off at them for not having the game available "through legal means" years after everyone else (including the developers themselves) stopped giving a shit, just to appease people who have a stick up their ass when it comes to "consumer rights" and "not resorting to piracy"?

Why don't *YOU* guys offer developers and publishers to take the process of getting physical media on the market, off their hands, just as conveniently as DD does?

You can still download the game you just can't purchase it, well I can only speak for steam and xbox live because I haven't ever needed to find out on the PS3 (I assume its the same though?).

To be fair I still own a ton of snes cartridges but I never use them when I play snes games -- which is a few times every year -- so I don't see much of an issue here.

I would have them continue to support retail releases for as long as it is profitable, which will be for a long time considering retail is still popular enough to exist in the movie and even the music business ffs.

Seems like people have a hard time accepting that the push for DD only is not one done out of desperation, but out of the thirst to control every single aspect of what a consumer buys, when he/she buys it and for how much.

I'm arguing in favor of continuing to have the same choices we've had so far and others keep having in other mediums... and you and others are arguing against it? Wtf?

The gaming industry makes a lot of money and corporations STILL throw anti-consumer shit at the wall to see if it sticks. Why defend this nonsense?

"as long as it is profitable" I'd say the guys in charge of making a profit know how to do that better than you ever will ever hope to, but that's just me. Music and movie industries still rely on physical distribution because the DD is not nearly as capillary as it is with games, and the industries themselves have been traditionally different. The second hand market for music doesn't get slammed in your face every time you try to buy a new disk two days after it's released like with games and selling disks is not even the main source of income anymore, and movies have regulated rents much better than games have. It's not even apples and oranges that you're doing here, it's more like apples and rocket launchers.

Keep your conspiracy theories for yourself please. Indie devs who don't even have a publisher for themselves or whose projects were funded through crowdfunding don't give two shits about being control freaks over their consumers and guess what, you'd be hard pressed to find a single one who isn't DD exclusive. WIth DD you have a much more reliable and permeating service that gives half as many headaches as physical distribution does, that's all there is to it. Period.

No, I'm not arguing against it, I'm saying the tradeoff isn't worth it for them from any and every point of view. Learn 2 read.

What an idiotic example. Half of those games wouldn't even exist if it weren't for digital gaming and license expiring would still have happened if they were physical which means they'd still be impossible to find.

To be fair, physical copies go out of print all the time.

dammit, i knew i should have bought origins.

How many of these games can you actually walk into a store and buy? Silly peeps being silly.

Oh noes my disk got scratched, why didn't i buy it digitally?!?!?! I WARNED EVERYONE TO BUY DIGITALLY! OH WOE IS ME!

lol ffs catch a grip.

I like physical copies.....can't see why anyone goes the "rent" route with digital but to each his own. I only hope it never becomes the standard.

MVC3 is next for sure. I own two copies. One I keep in the shrink wrap.

If that's the only difference you can bring up, then my point still stands, the used game market is preety much legal piracy, you can thank the used game market as part of why we have paywalls and DRM today :)

I'll never go all DD and to this day buy physical disks whenever I can.

yup, definitely. But with MVC3 i can still go to my nearest Gamestop and purchase the game. with MVC Origins im shit out of luck beacuse its digital Only :'(

they should really let people know a couple days/weeks in advance what games they're removing from PSN/XBL/Steam so people can still have a chance to buy it before its gone forever!

I'm pretty sure it's profitable seeing as how it's still being done.

You're acting like people are overreacting.

Yet, how are we supposed to know in which time period we can buy a game ? How long, for example, do we have the chance to buy Alien Isolation via DD before the license expires ?

It's still being done on consoles where a similar problem to the movie industry still lingers as far as I know - digital distribution has restraints that don't make it an obvious choice. Traditionally, consoles have always been extremely slow to adapt to new concepts, the distributor in this case has a monopoly over the network which means: a faulty service stays faulty until they feel like it's time to fix it, if a costumer doesn't like that service for any reason he'll have to deal with not having access to DD, and a similar thing goes for publishers who will simply have to deal with their game not being in the DD network if they don't like something about said network (unlike PC games, not every game can be found on the online store, can it?). Also, having the game on your console is space-consuming and space isn't as conveniently available as it is on PC (correct me if I'm wrong here - I'm going by how last gen used to be).

Oh look. The conversation killing argument of "they're the experts shut up, consumer".

@N30F3N1X said:

Music and movie industries still rely on physical distribution because the DD is not nearly as capillary as it is with games, and the industries themselves have been traditionally different. The second hand market for music doesn't get slammed in your face every time you try to buy a new disk two days after it's released like with games

What the **** do the business practices of american GameStops have to do with the merits of retail game sales? Around here I have NEVER been pressured to buy second hand games or even suggested on what to buy at the counter. Ever. Now what?

Dumb argument that only fits your experience.

@N30F3N1X said:

and selling disks is not even the main source of income anymore, and movies have regulated rents much better than games have. It's not even apples and oranges that you're doing here, it's more like apples and rocket launchers.

Doesn't matter how different these services are. In fact, despite being so much better and convenient, retail still exists for both.

@N30F3N1X said:

Keep your conspiracy theories for yourself please. Indie devs who don't even have a publisher for themselves or whose projects were funded through crowdfunding don't give two shits about being control freaks over their consumers

....what? Who said anything about indies who find it financially more advantageous to distribute their product digitally?

Way to cherry pick your battles here.

@N30F3N1X said:

WIth DD you have a much more reliable and permeating service that gives half as many headaches as physical distribution does, that's all there is to it. Period.

No, I'm not arguing against it, I'm saying the tradeoff isn't worth it for them from any and every point of view. Learn 2 read.

Why do I have a feeling that in your head this thread is about "DD VS Retail", when I'm CLEARLY arguing against one of those options being dropped, not the existence of the other.

wtf

Just saw this on Buzzfeed thought it was rather relevant ... http://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelzarrell/over-2000-ms-dos-games-like-oregon-trail-can-now-be-played-o#.qewemv8M0

Thank you, PC gaming.

I did nerdgasm an awful lot looking through all those games and bringing back so many memories :P

Hey, check it out. They have The Lost Vikings by Silicon & Synapse

I wonder whatever happened to those devs...

We may never know.

oh man Bruce Lee! **** I remember playing that little bitch on the commodore 64. boulder dash! oh dude! STUNTS! my god that game was awesome. and i haven't even scrolled down yet.

whoa, even metal gear's on that list. holy ****, i hope blue hazy basic never ever dies.

@Thunderdrone

Oh look. The conversation killing argument of "they're the experts shut up, consumer".

Yes. What you "would rather have" does not in any way reflect how the rest of the market works.

What the **** do the business practices of american GameStops have to do with the merits of retail game sales? Around here I have NEVER been pressured to buy second hand games or even suggested on what to buy at the counter. Ever. Now what?

Dumb argument that only fits your experience.

Again, learn to read. What I said meant that you don't have a second hand market competing with new game sales as soon as people start finishing a game, because music disks have greater lasting value and aren't turned back in as soon as a new customer is done listening to one.

Doesn't matter how different these services are. In fact, despite being so much better and convenient, retail still exists for both.

Still exists doesn't mean it's going to continue indefinitely, at least for games. Selling music disks doesn't have the same purpose as selling games so again, wrapping everything up as "retail" means you don't have the first clue of how markets work.

....what? Who said anything about indies who find it financially more advantageous to distribute their product digitally?

Way to cherry pick your battles here.

Oh that's funny. I could've sworn it was you who tried to make it seem like pushing DD was something done by evil and corrupt people who lust for world domination.

Seems like people have a hard time accepting that the push for DD only is not one done out of desperation, but out of the thirst to control every single aspect of what a consumer buys, when he/she buys it and for how much.

What do you think this is if not cherry picking?

Why do I have a feeling that in your head this thread is about "DD VS Retail", when I'm CLEARLY arguing against one of those options being dropped, not the existence of the other.

Because it is inevitably a DD vs Retail argument. Your points against the dropping of physical distribution have exactly 0 advantages for everyone but the retailers and a few cavemen like you, to which I answered by explaining some of the reasons why everyone else wants the market to move towards DD only.

LOL

I don't see the issue, this is the DD equivalent of a game going out of print.

*sniff* nicest thing anyone has ever said to me

@N30F3N1X:

Everyone else wants DD only future? People who buy blurays and retail games are cavemen now? Are you for fucking real lol

And movies or music don't have a huge second hand market? Pull your head out of your ass for two seconds, head to Amazon and learn what the market has to offer before acting like a self-proclaimed "progressive expert consumer".

You sound like one of those sad hipsters that walk past book stores and feel sorry people still buy books instead of reading on iPads, Kindles or whatever. You know, the insufferable type that feels the world should keep up with his own consumer preferences and nothing else. I mean, **** cultural habits or even the limitations that some regions have to access this stuff, N30F3N1X has spoken!!

lol pretty much. Music has a 2nd hand market? Who the hell still buys non-digital music these days, other than hipsters (buh buh vinyl is the best!) and yes cavemen :P

I'm sure you love your betamax and VHS collections and vast array of cassette tapes and 8 tracks too!

"You know, the insufferable type that feels the world should keep up with his own consumer preferences and nothing else" hmmm cos it feels a little like the anti-DD lobby is arguing exactly this. "WE DON'T WANT DA CHANGES!"

Physical stuff isn't forever either. Consoles die, disks scratch, multiplayer servers shut down, old PC games can't be installed on newer OSs. A lot of shit can happen to your games. Nothing is permanent.

At least with emulation we can preserve old games in digital formats forever and with emulators you can play your old physical games if you break the console.

How bout this?

Used game market:

1 person buys game = 1 person sells game = 1 person buys used game

Piracy:

1 person buys game = 1 person pirates game = millions of persons download the pirated game

yeah... completely the same

*rolls eyes*

Yes, I'd say that any consumer in their right mind would see content delivered to their platform of choice as quickly as allowed by current technology, when they want, where they want, without having to lift your ass off your chair, as the best option you could hope for. And for developers? There are no other middle man - you create your content, you give it to the DD service, and once you get the bureaucracy out of the way your content is instantly available everywhere for everyone, with any information you could want readily available through online tracking, without having to wait for every store to report through the grapevine.

I didn't say they have a huge second hand market, I said that their second hand market doesn't compete with new sales and that sales themselves aren't as relevant to their respective markets as opposed to the gaming one where you either sell a game, sell content inside that game, or nothing. This is the second time I reiterate this, since you already tried this dumbass argument and I already clarified what I meant. Good job on showing you have the reading comprehension of a 4 years old.

And you sound like one of those sad hipsters who are whining because they just bought a new iPhone and the new one has just been announced. On top of being a caveman.

what exactly are you rolling your eyes about? in your example the devs/pubs would get 'the same' revenue. one copy sold in both your examples.

my counter argument is, the one used copy you mentioned was sold - that buyer of the used copy was willing to part with money to get the game. therefore, if a used copy didn't exist - would they have bought a new copy? well they had money, didn't they? a new copy feeds money back to the devs/pubs, a used copy does not. (at least, it already fed that money back)

the millions of people who spent $0 pirating the game, can it be proven they would have ever spent money on the game?

just a quick note - i don't necessarily agree with "the used game market is pretty much legal piracy", because of my devil's advocate position I mentioned before: the seller of a used game can use money earned from the sale of a used game to buy new games.

This is strange. I remember searching the PSN for Scott Pilgrim two weeks ago and I found an empty store page without a purchase option. I assumed it had already been removed. I should have jumped on it a few months ago when it was available for only $5.

I'm lucky that I got most of the ones I wanted, like Scott Pilgrim, TMNT 1989, X-Men and The Simpsons. Shame they have to go so early.

I still have every digital game I've "rented" all the way back to the first. I've lost several physical games I've "owned".

@Vatusus: And devs still didn't make money off that 1 used sale, and that's pretending that used games are sold only once and the buyer of the used game didn't trade it into his gaming store to be re-sold again

It's still no different, just imagine how many times a single used game changes hands, not to mention the retailers that discourage new game purchases and try to make their customers buy it used instead

You can spin it around all you want, in the end it doesn't make any money for developers, it's still one of many reasons consoles are embracing digital, and I still stand by it no matter how angry you or others may get at me, piracy and the used game market still have the same effect

Why are you throwing Sony and or fans of Sony into this?

which I think you mean Playstation fans, which means you are referring to cows. Since when have cows wanted a digital future?

Why are you making shit up about cows?

This topic has nothing to do with SONY or cows. Why are you linkingcows tothis?

Why?

All hail the physical copy master race

Used games bring up whole another topic of developers not getting the money. And some games just doesn't get circulated because people hold on to them.

And yes, you should've gotten Radiant Dawn

Thats just bullshit of the highest grade. You took the wrong part of my example to convey with your argument but that was not the point of it. My example shows that one game was bought yes but it also shows there is a way bigger loss of potential buyers due to piracy than a used game. And dont come with "you cant prove a person who pirated a game is a loss buy" cause thats just bullshit. If a person pirated the game its because it was interested in it and if there was no piracy he would have no other option than to buy it. Sure it may not apply to all due to mainly the financial situation of the person but it'll apply to the vast majority, I'm sure of it.

see answer above ^^^^

everyone on the planet has an infinite capacity for piracy in terms of how much piracy they can 'afford' to do. they could pirate every game available.

nobody has an infinite capacity for money, everyone's money supply is finite. so each individual will be restricted in how much they can spend on games.

so how can you be so certain of your position that the vast majority of pirated copies are lost sales when the potential for piracy is essentially unlimited, yet the ability for people to buy games is not? a bankrupt individual can pirate games.

are some lost sales? sure. but i also disagree that people pirate games because they must have been interested in them. some folk will just be trying them out, to see if the game generates any interest with them - after all, they're free to try!

If you bought the game digitally and they remove it for whatever reason, you can still play it/download it. They did that on PS3 as well. The issue of removing from sale has to do with the Publisher not the digital provider.