GamesIndustry: Why do people want Nintendo dead?

@osan0: What a lame way to look at things. Companies should just do as they please. Freedom to innovate and create experiences we don't expect. None of this crap about "rules" and what they should be doing.

I don't understand why it's hard to believe.

We could take a similar company like Apple.

In the 90s they made just about everything, and they nearly went bankrupt. Steve Jobs returned, axed everything, but the Mac line, and then created the iPod which went on to be far more successful than Mac ever was. Now Apple is more successful than almost every other company on the planet, and it's all thanks to their focus on music players which then led to smartphones.

That's essentially Sega, but with different products.

We all have fond memories of our Sega consoles, but as successful as any of those consoles were, Sega not making consoles/console games today doesn't mean they're doing poorly.

Actually, slot machines are their biggest money-maker, but when it comes to home video games PC is their biggest platform.

Companies cut unsuccessful products all the time. It doesn't mean a company isn't doing well.

I don't want Nintendo to die (they wouldn't anyway even if I did), but I do want Nintendo to struggle because I believe them to currently be incredibly arrogant, elitist, stubborn, and clueless, even to the point of their own detriment. They're so insistent on living in their own little world that it's infuriating to watch. A company can exist, cognizant of what's going on around them, and still go their own direction. Nintendo seems to necessitate self-induced delusion, insulation, and denial in order to feel that they can do so. They are willingly out of touch, extremely conservative, and I'd be flat out lying if I said I don't enjoy seeing them get kicked over and over in the head as long as they remain so in the (fast fading) hope that they will one day wake up.

I care for them greatly as a company.....they're part of my childhood. They've inarguably made some of the best games this medium's ever seen, many of which encompass my all-time favorites lists. But they are also a largely different company than they once were that now seem to proudly embrace characteristics that aren't admirable and that aren't doing them any good, and from what has happened over the past few years, this is evident enough.

Nintendo's suffering. Do I wish for a suffering Nintendo to die? Yes, because I want a better one to live.

I agree. In a time, I felt this way, then got a Wii (thank you Jessica) and discovered (Flight of the Valkyries plays) there ARE great games to be enjoyed on it. Then, I got a 3DS in a time (deployment training) when I couldn't enjoy console gaming. And I discovered (Beethoven's 9nth) that there are games to be played. My mind, my very soul expanded. I asked for advice from our very TC as to games to be played. I learned joy, love. This company, with its many business flaws now, deserve some honor. I give it and will continue, to.

I think wanting Nintendo dead would be taking it a bit far.

When it comes to handhelds, those things are pretty much money machines for Nintendo, plain and simple. Generally huge successes with libraries that people adore.

Consoles, on the other hand, seem to be a more hit-and-miss scenario. The Wii raked in huge sales and the casual crowd. But the casual crowd is quite fickle, and, imo, one of the hardest ones to appeal to. They can buy you in droves one generation, and ditch you in the next. The Wii U right now is facing a lot of issues that Nintendo could have resolved before launch (name issue and marketing for casuals, online, accounts, etc.). At this point, the Wii U is facing an uphill struggle, but perhaps some struggle for Nintendo will get them to reevaluate a few issues and try to resolve them.

Casuals and gamers have turned their back on the Wii U and its already looking a gen behind and many devs are skipping on the Wii U.
The casualistation of the industry was a cancer and needs to be put out.... with the some stunning next gen hardware and games.
Kids, soccer moms to elderly, a lot of them have turned to tablets, iOS and android.

Less risky and going cheap was Wii U worse move... 'ultra max crysis graphics and unreal 4 engine some said...'

That wasn't my point. My point was that SEGA had talent that easily rivaled Nintendo, and that quickly dissipated after leaving the hardware business due to internal restructuring.

I'm happy that they're slowly, but surely, climbing back up. They also recently got the talent of Atlus, which they let do their own thing. But as a gamer, i couldn't give a **** how successful they are now if they're not going to make the games i love. Which is highly improbable because the teams that made these games in the past no longer exist.

Everyone loves picking on the little guy...

I badly miss Sega....

So Because a Nintendo goes to Xbox or Playstation, Donkey Kong Country Returns would be ENTIRELY DIFFERENT because it's on something that has more Ram and a more powerful CPU and GPU and the sound will be different and the Game would be in HD and OMG it's way better than it ever was been and it's not even the Same because I'm on a Xbox or Playstation and I don't have to use Crappy Motion Controls!

You obviously don't get what I'm saying if you believe that Nintendo games would be completely different than what they were on a Nintendo system.

If Pikmin 3 were on a PS4, I would bet it would look pretty much how it is on the WiiU, might have better resolution, but the sound and the actual game would primarily be the same.

Mario Games won't suddenly become Sand Box Games like Mario 64 or Super Mario Sunshine simply because you can buy them on the Xbox now. You'd still get Super Mario 3D World.

Only thing you might not get in the games if they were on a Playstation or Xbox is the loss of Miiverse integration which isn't that big of a loss and it could probably just sync with Facebook or PS4's Share button which wouldn't harm gameplay at all.

Atari was the biggest video game company in the world in the early 80's, yet look what happened to them. Sega was the biggest video game company in the world in the early 90's, yet look what happened to them. Just because you're on top of the world at any one point in time, that doesn't mean you will always be at the top. All it takes is a few mishaps along the way to change that. And exiting the hardware business, especially when you're the most profitable hardware manufacturer of them all, is one of the worst decisions you could ever make. Gaming is a business, not a charity.

Nintendo's hardware is not profitable, the Wii U is losing 60 dollars a unit and the 3DS is only making its money back.

Their hardware sucks and is overpriced. We rather play their games without the gimmicks, so that means going 3rd party or making a virtual console box. Plus their games are overpriced for what they are.

But would it have happened regardless?

They made some stellar games on their consoles, but their console business failed, and low software sales share a part of that blame. Games like Shenmue were not money-makers. They were pretty much financial blunders.

After the collapse of the Dreamcast they put out great games on all the other consoles (yes, I assume many were in development for the Dreamcast at one point). Super Monkey Ball, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Shenmue 2, Jet Set Radio Future, etc. (among various ports, and other games).

Did any of them sell well? Not really.

More recently they announced they'd no longer localize Yakuza because nobody bought that, nor did many people buy Valkyria Chronicles.

I have to imagine that internal restructuring would have happened anyways even if the Dreamcast managed to stay alive. No company can just continuously pump tens, if not hundreds of millions into game development to have nothing make a profit.

The fact that Nintendo hasn't made a loss in over 30 years, whereas Sony and Microsoft have made numerous losses, speaks for itself. Whatever losses Nintendo may be making with the Wii U currently, the huge success of the 3DS is more than enough to balance it out. Going third-party would not only be a disaster for the Wii U, but it would also seriously hurt Nintendo's handheld business along with it. Once again, it would be an absolutely terrible decision. Like I said, gaming is a business, not a charity.

I don't know, maybe you're right.

I have a OG Xbox for the SEGA exclusives, i know how much of a financial failure they where, which is depressing because they truly are brilliant games. Pretty much some of the best of that generation. Super Monkey Ball sold well tho, it was a successful, and very popular franchise that spawned many sequels on many systems.

Anyway, that's why SEGA is the only company that i have a little of a soft spot for. Anyone can say what they want, and rightfully so, but no one can deny how crazy they where to pump out completely unique games and IPs on a frequent basis. Not just on the Dreamcast, but on their other consoles as well.

At least now thanks to the internet and the retro-scene, a lot of these games are getting the attention they deserve. There are a lot of Sega Saturn fans out there, me included.

Wait a minute, Super Monkey Ball didn't sell well? How did that happen when the game became an established franchise... that quickly fell apart starting with Super Monkey Ball Adventure (and how everybody hated that game) ending with the Vita game?

@charizard1605: I don't care either way, I haven't played a Nintendo game in over 5 years.

Sega is an odd company, and I just wish they were more focused.

They have a pretty distinct Japanese side, and Western side, and I wish they'd collaborate more. They see the success of the PC platform, but outside of their Western studios, they don't put much out on the PC. Granted they don't put much out on the consoles either, but it'd be nice to see them at least make an attempt at the market with some of their Japanese titles.

It's a shame they gave Playstation gamers Yakuza, and Valkyria Chronicles, and when neither sold they just scrapped the idea of bringing more over here. Meanwhile you see something like Recettear pop up on Steam without notice, and it just completely shattered the devs expectations by over-selling their 6 month estimates in 20 days, and sold over a hundred thousand copies in 4 months (the game was expected to sell 10,000 copies in 6 months). There's a market for Japanese games on the PC, and it's showing by how much support the platform has been getting recently. Sega's got their foot in the door in that market, but they do nothing.

This goes for some of their other games too. They're having Nintendo publish Platinum games which imo is a huge opportunity lost to build the Platinum brand even more. Then they buy Atlus, and announce exclusives for the PS3, PS Vita, and 3DS.

Their Western side is doing phenomenal. Their Japanese side is just trudging through the same rut that most every other Japanese dev has been going through this gen. Seemingly uncaring of pursuing new markets, and making odd decisions on which systems to support which provides no opportunity for long-term success.

Why thank you sir. Really I tend to be a very "mainstream" person, I tend to love that which everyone else loves :P

I don't think they'd be 100% different. They would be better. If you want to pretend you liked playing standard def, stereo sound games in 2011, or that lacking a hard drive and achievements is awesome, or that having online cut out of your games is acceptable, or that having your downloadable content tied to your console is fine and you don't mind losing EVERYTHING if it breaks, go right the **** ahead. But don't think you can spread your lies without someone calling you on it.

Mario Galaxy in HD, and surround sound, with a normal control pad, with achievements, with a harddrive for extra downloadable levels, with Xbox Live leaderboards and possibly "ghosts" to see your friends route through levels, would factually be a superior game. I accept I have to deal with Nintendo's backwards ass bullshit to play their great games, it just sickens me to see fanboys like you accepting their bulshit and calling it tasty chocolate and claiming to love it!

I honestly think it's because people want Nintendo to go 3rd party. There are tons of gamers that would enjoy Nintendo exclusives but they won't ever buy a Nintendo console.

I seriously think Nintendo fans are holding them back form greatness. People make excuses and defend their every wrong. Here we are in 2013 and their hardware is underpowered, online is crap and basic features are missing. Their main focus are controllers rather than an overall great experience. For me it's getting old and tired. Nintendo is completely out of of touch with gamers and it shows.

I don't wish death in ANY company but I expect a lot better from Nintendo.

All the previous hardware killed Sega not the Dreamcast. Dreamcast was a great console but it was too late by then.

So Super Mario 3D World, then?

Nintendo has said, countless times, that without Nintendo hardware there will be no Nintendo software. Truthfully if Nintendo leave the hardware business (which they won't, not any time soon anyway, because they have far too much spare cash to give it in) I actually think their games WILL suffer as a result. Nintendo hardware is always built around the ideas they have for their software. Ultimately this has resulted in Nintendo alienating third-parties, but it has also produced a lot of the best games ever made. I don't want Nintendo software to suffer, and I can't help but feel it would if they go third party. The same thing happened to Sega. Despite the commercial failures of the Saturn and Dreamcast some fantastic Sega games were still released for their systems. Hell, the Dreamcast has arguably the best first-party line up of any console in history. But since they left the hardware business they have gone majorly down hill. For the first two years or so they were fine, as they released fantastic games like Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio and Super Monkey Ball. But those games probably started life as Dreamcast titles, and once these games were done the quality quickly dropped.

So in short, I don't want Nintendo to die. I don't think anyone does really, they just want to play Nintendo games on the other hardware. If Nintendo ever did go third party though, I'd rather they sided with Sony.

Achievements, DLC and leader boards are just extras. Mario Galaxy is a fantastic game without them, it doesn't need them. What about those gamers who hate DLC, and don't care for achievements or leader boards? No game is 'factually superior' with these features. It's all subjective. You may think games are superior with these features, others won't. Personally achievements are pointless to me. I don't care for them at all. They added nothing to my experiences playing my 360. Leader boards are the same. And DLC is a neat concept that is hugely exploited by most of the big devs and publishers.

because modern gamers that grew up playing on Nintendo consoles are tired of playing the same shit over and over each generation from them. We moved on to other consoles.

The only one's that seem to still be attached to them are the hardcore Nintendo fans that dont want to let go of their Nostalgic memories of Mario/Zelda.

Nintendo sucks at hardware so that part is what needs to go away. They are good at software and could do well as a 3rd party dev.

Foolishness. Nintendo themselves have proved your logic wrong with Super Mario 3D Land. Something that would never look that good or run that good on the Wii or its 3DS counterpart 3D Land. If Nintendo had not obsolete hardware, they could do so much more. By your logic why even jump ahead into a new gen? Since according to you, nothing changes.

Nintendo won't let their 1st Party games go multiplatform even if they did bow out of the console race they have said it for a while unlike SEGA that did.

Anyway I think it would be bad for the industry if Nintendo didn't make consoles because they always try to give the consumer a different type of console than just more powerful graphics.

we can't have different machines. unfortunately for some strange reason everybody wants every game to be on a sony console

Well who's fault is that? Tell Nintendo to step their game up and people might shut up about it.

@locopatho: i don't think your getting it loco. tech only goes as far as the developers make it. nintendo will still be making games the same way they do now even if they were third party. to think because said console is stronger thus game would be stronger is kind of silly.

To relive the glory days of the PS2? How awesome was that having every single AAA game on one system?! I loved it and It should happen again.

@crimsonman1245: or we can just you know…have variety? i mean thats not to much to ask for right?

it would be cool and save money but I'm a collector so i enjoy buying new tech

Overreliance on gimmicks with weak hardware. The Wii U's hardware is what the original Wii should've been a facsimile of.

"Nintendo's extraordinary track record of innovation and creativity"

I just want Nintendo stop make hardware...

GT is basically the embodiment of what he is talking about.

Nintendo will never go 3rd party. EVER. They've come out and said that if they go under, all their games go with them. This is a matter of pride and ego to Nintendo. To put their games on competitors' hardware would be seen as a great dishonor and shameful. I've no doubt Nintendo views Sony and MS with contempt and condescension. It's not going to happen and I wish everyone would stop talking about it.

If only Sony and MS would stop making hardware. People would buy a PC or a Steambox and a Nintendo system and they would have all the games.

I never want them dead. They are the best developers of all time in my opinion, but they suck at making hardwares.

How so? They make the most innovative forward thinking efficient, coolest running most silent hardware for the lowest price with the least amount of problems but they suck at making hardwares.

People want them dead because they are idiots. It's that simple. I can't figure out why anyone who calls themselves a gamer wants Nintendo, or any other company in gaming, dead.

That is a massive generalization. Millions of people still love Mario, Zelda, Metroid and the rest without a shred of nostalgia. Do you know why? Because they are great games. What would be the point in Nintendo retiring old franchises that are still popular just for the sake of making new ones? I'm one of those that really want to see some new Nintendo IPs, but there's nothing wrong with how they treat their current big IPs. Compare Mario and Zelda to something like Gears of War and God of War. Nintendo have managed to keep Mario and Zelda relevant for nearly 30 years, yet franchises such as Gears and God of War, which are still relatively new, are already creatively dead and irrelevant. And that's not to say I dislike these franchises. I've enjoyed my time spent playing Gears and God of War, but their time is up already. What Nintendo do to keep their franchises relevant is beyond me, but they have managed to do it.

And why is it wrong for Nintendo to keep relying on 20 or so year old franchises but it isn't for anyone else? Konami's biggest franchises are still Castlevania and Metal Gear, which have been around since the 80's. Capcom's biggest is Street Fighter, which has been around since the 80's. Square Enix's are Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, which have been around since the 80's. It's pure ignorance to suggest Nintendo are the only ones that rely on their proven successes.

Because, apparently, hardware has to be 'powerful' to be good. People just forget about how good the Game Boy was despite its poor hardware. Or how good the DS was. Funny thing though is that the GameCube, which was WAY more powerful than the PS2, lost considerably. People think that Nintendo need to make their hardware more powerful, but when they did that with the N64 and GameCube they got their arses kicked. No matter what Nintendo try it won't ever be enough simply because it is Nintendo.