Gamespot's PS4 Pro PC build is so wrong its funny

Digitasl foundry actully did a pretty good GPU power simulation downclocking a rx-480

Nobody said the Gamespot staff were the swiftest when it comes to PC gaming.

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro:

@GoldenElementXL said:

TLDR

-They used a CPU that is far too strong

-They used a 8GB VRAM GPU and 8GB system memory. The PS4 Pro shares at most 6GB for games total. What?!?!?

-The GPU they used has 5.8 teraflops. The PS4 Pro Gpu has 4.2

-They were running the PC games at a NATIVE 4K and bitching about the performance. We've known since the day of the reveal that the PS4 Pro will be upscaling the games from a near 1440p resolution. Why even run a native 4K benchmark?

-Their PC costs $630.

These "journalist" need to go some where and take a class... And they need to take Colin Moriarty with them!

PS4 has unified memory with zero copy while PCs with dGPU doesn't have this feature.

the ps4 pro has 6 cores for games at 2.3 so it should score exactly like the amd x4 on your bench image, what is this zero copy thing? you still thin things go fronm system ram to vram all the time?

Yes. The CPU usually unbundles the stored texture data prior to GPU VRAM load. Textures are usually not stored in a naked Direct3D data format. Art assets are usually secured against normal end-user's poking.

AMD's HSA PR is wasn't adopted in desktop PCs.

1. The data is uploaded into system memory pool.

2. GPU can read system memory pool. CPU has no access to GPU's memory locations.

Both XBO and PS4 are AMD based APU boxes without any considerations for Intel/NVidia/x86 legacy's memory model limitations.

The 7th CPU core was unlocked for both XBO and PS4 game developers.

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro:

@GoldenElementXL said:

TLDR

-They used a CPU that is far too strong

-They used a 8GB VRAM GPU and 8GB system memory. The PS4 Pro shares at most 6GB for games total. What?!?!?

-The GPU they used has 5.8 teraflops. The PS4 Pro Gpu has 4.2

-They were running the PC games at a NATIVE 4K and bitching about the performance. We've known since the day of the reveal that the PS4 Pro will be upscaling the games from a near 1440p resolution. Why even run a native 4K benchmark?

-Their PC costs $630.

These "journalist" need to go some where and take a class... And they need to take Colin Moriarty with them!

PS4 has unified memory with zero copy while PCs with dGPU doesn't have this feature.

the ps4 pro has 6 cores for games at 2.3 so it should score exactly like the amd x4 on your bench image, what is this zero copy thing? you still thin things go fronm system ram to vram all the time?

Yes. The CPU usually unbundles the stored texture data prior to GPU VRAM load. Textures are usually not stored in a naked Direct3D data format. Art assets are usually secured against normal end-user's poking.

so youre saying that if im running battlefield 4 on a 4gb system ram PC with a 3gb vram graphics card, all the 3gb vram data will first be loaded on my system ram then loaded to the vram?

bf4 uses 2,5 sysram ram and windwos 8 took another 1, there is only 500mb left of ram

the game will move all the 3gb of vram data on the system ram first, then load it to the graphics card?

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro:

PS4 has unified memory with zero copy while PCs with dGPU doesn't have this feature.

the ps4 pro has 6 cores for games at 2.3 so it should score exactly like the amd x4 on your bench image, what is this zero copy thing? you still thin things go fronm system ram to vram all the time?

Yes. The CPU usually unbundles the stored texture data prior to GPU VRAM load. Textures are usually not stored in a naked Direct3D data format. Art assets are usually secured against normal end-user's poking.

so youre saying that if im running battlefield 4 on a 4gb system ram PC with a 3gb vram graphics card, all the 3gb vram data will first be loaded on my system ram then loaded to the vram?

bf4 uses 2,5 sysram ram and windwos 8 took another 1, there is only 500mb left of ram

the game will move all the 3gb of vram data on the system ram first, then load it to the graphics card?

The data gets uploaded into system memory pool then the GPU can read it..

@leandrro said:

if im running battlefield 4 on a 4gb system ram PC with a 3gb vram graphics card, all the 3gb vram data will first be loaded on my system ram then loaded to the vram?

Flawed reasoning, it's not 1 units of system mem to 1 units of GPU mem as you didn't factoring dynamically created frame buffers.

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro said:

the ps4 pro has 6 cores for games at 2.3 so it should score exactly like the amd x4 on your bench image, what is this zero copy thing? you still thin things go fronm system ram to vram all the time?

Yes. The CPU usually unbundles the stored texture data prior to GPU VRAM load. Textures are usually not stored in a naked Direct3D data format. Art assets are usually secured against normal end-user's poking.

so youre saying that if im running battlefield 4 on a 4gb system ram PC with a 3gb vram graphics card, all the 3gb vram data will first be loaded on my system ram then loaded to the vram?

bf4 uses 2,5 sysram ram and windwos 8 took another 1, there is only 500mb left of ram

the game will move all the 3gb of vram data on the system ram first, then load it to the graphics card?

The data gets uploaded into system memory pool then the GPU can read it..

i see, but it wont happen during the gameplay, because it wold be impossible to have 3gb of textures in 500mb of system ram for the gpu to read it while the game is running,

so it only happens before the game is loading, another way to see this is that if i get out of vram, dx tries to store some vram data on my system ram (used to happen when i had a 2gb card) my system ram used to peak while my vram hit 2048mb and then my fps goes down to 5fps,its because system ram is so much slower,

so its clear that this only affects the loading times of the game, in my case is faster then any console loading time using my old i5-2400 from 2011

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

Yes. The CPU usually unbundles the stored texture data prior to GPU VRAM load. Textures are usually not stored in a naked Direct3D data format. Art assets are usually secured against normal end-user's poking.

so youre saying that if im running battlefield 4 on a 4gb system ram PC with a 3gb vram graphics card, all the 3gb vram data will first be loaded on my system ram then loaded to the vram?

bf4 uses 2,5 sysram ram and windwos 8 took another 1, there is only 500mb left of ram

the game will move all the 3gb of vram data on the system ram first, then load it to the graphics card?

The data gets uploaded into system memory pool then the GPU can read it..

i see, but it wont happen during the gameplay, because it wold be impossible to have 3gb of textures in 500mb of system ram for the gpu to read it while the game is running,

so it only happens before the game is loading, another way to see this is that if i get out of vram, dx tries to store some vram data on my system ram (used to happen when i had a 2gb card) my system ram used to peak while my vram hit 2048mb and then my fps goes down to 5fps,its because system ram is so much slower,

so its clear that this only affects the loading times of the game, in my case is faster then any console loading time using my old i5-2400 from 2011

Your Sandybridge's 8 GB/s PCI-E link would be a massive bottleneck if frame buffers and immediate textures usage are located in system memory while the GPU is located on a separate video card.

Direct3D uses system memory for any less used texture data spill over, but it needs to be copied over to GPU's VRAM when it used (needs to be predicted to avoid stalls).

PS4's HDD was connected to the USB port instead of SATA port and game console's cheap 5400 RPM hard drives are slower than 7200 RPM hard drives. Sony was stupid.

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro said:

so youre saying that if im running battlefield 4 on a 4gb system ram PC with a 3gb vram graphics card, all the 3gb vram data will first be loaded on my system ram then loaded to the vram?

bf4 uses 2,5 sysram ram and windwos 8 took another 1, there is only 500mb left of ram

the game will move all the 3gb of vram data on the system ram first, then load it to the graphics card?

The data gets uploaded into system memory pool then the GPU can read it..

i see, but it wont happen during the gameplay, because it wold be impossible to have 3gb of textures in 500mb of system ram for the gpu to read it while the game is running,

so it only happens before the game is loading, another way to see this is that if i get out of vram, dx tries to store some vram data on my system ram (used to happen when i had a 2gb card) my system ram used to peak while my vram hit 2048mb and then my fps goes down to 5fps,its because system ram is so much slower,

so its clear that this only affects the loading times of the game, in my case is faster then any console loading time using my old i5-2400 from 2011

Your Sandybridge's 8 GB/s PCI-E link would be a massive bottleneck if frame buffers and immediate textures usage are located in system memory while the GPU is located on a separate video card.

Direct3D uses system memory for any less used texture data spill over, but it needs to be copied over to GPU's VRAM when it used (needs to be predicted to avoid stalls).

PS4's HDD was connected to the USB port instead of SATA port and game console's cheap 5400 RPM hard drives are slower than 7200 RPM hard drives.

so, if the developers decided to put all the data on vram before the map/level is loaded there would be no difference between desktops and consoles

if developers decided to put some least used vram data on the system ram to be loaded back to vram before its needed, there also would not be any performance decrease,

if developers put some data on system ram and while it is loaded to vram there is a noticiable perofromance loss, any developer would rather load everything in the vram before the game starts for those users with a larger vram card instead of crippling the performance to save some vram,

in any case, a system with 3gb vram and 3 gb system ram has about the same total ram available as ps4 pro, if you have 8gb ram + 4gb vram there wold always be more ram to work with on this cheap pc than on ps4 pro, all the data would be loaded in the right place before the level stars and a ram bandwidth bottleneck would never happen

CowSpot gonna cow..

remember what x360/ps3 gen did with 512mb ram? Keep comparing closed and open systems

remember all the compromises made because of the lack of ram?

@04dcarraher: i would love a pc with same specs as ps3, that can run games like tlou

Right.... I had a PC back in 2007 that creamed the PS3...... naming Sony exclusives is not warranted. even the better exclusives like Uncharted and TLOU made quite a few compromises because of limitations of the hardware.

@04dcarraher: don't make me laugh. You had a pc with 512mb ram that could run games better looking than uncharted 3 or TLoU? I don't give a shit if you had a powerful pc in 2007, I'm talking about same identical specs of ps3, but with a pc

A $400 PC isn't beating the pro... nice try though.

uncharted 3 or TLOU looked amazing with effects, detail and resolution? not really..... that 512mb buffer was split 256mb and 256mb had to rely on constant dumping and streaming new data to make it work..... loading maps in cells to conserve memory. While NG did amazing work with what they had to work with but to say the PS3 was a power house is hilarious. And the X1 and PS4 moved to PC's conventional storage methods with memory, because its allows more options with scalability in almost every area.

Current consoles X1, PS4/PS4 pro follows PC architecture standards, same base hardware and its usage. So you can compare hardware from pc and current consoles and get a close estimate in ability since many games can be tested on all platforms.

Uncharted 3 used quite abit of 2d sprites with vegetation and fire effects(aka compromises) , and even TLOU got downgraded as well.

@04dcarraher: congrats, still not what I'm talking about. Why are you bringing up ps4? Did you have Pc with ps3 specs that could run games like tlou or not? If not, don't bother replying to me dude, as you change the topic each time for some reason. It's annoying dude

:/

@trollhunter2:

lol why would you get a a pc with equal specs of the PS3? when you could get something 2-3x faster for the same price as the 80gb model..... in 2007

what was the purpose of your reply then? I said pc specs similar to ps3 wont to the same output, which is true. I dont get your point here

Asking to compare a game that was a PS3 exclusive to its non existent PC release it's kind of a mind fvck.

between consoles, the ps4 pro will be outdated badly when the xbox scorpio comes out.

But in the end both these will be outdated always since PC hardware is so much more powerful and easy to swap in and out of your system. Im not sure the point of getting a console anymore, they don't last. My video card in my pc outlasted the entire ps4 life cycle and i can max games at 1080p at 60-80 fps still, yet their console is already out of date.

It makes no sense to me why people would want to buy inferior hardware that costs a bit less than PC hardware, but in doing so that hardware is badly out of date the moment you buy it... all to see that same hardware just getting replaced by still outdated but slightly faster hardware a couple years later... its like watching the way PC people upgrade except its if PC gamers upgraded their pcs with junk yard hardware that was only 5% faster each time (cpu generations excluded lol because literally they are only 5%-10% difference in gaming per generation).

A better match would probably be an i3 6100 coupled with a Radeon RX 470. Maybe we'll see many comparisons between the ps4 pro and that i3/RX 470 combo.

The original ps4 was often compared (and traded some blows) with an i3/GTX 750ti combo (usually i3-4340 since it was released the same year as the ps4)

Heres a video of an i3 6100 coupled with a Radeon RX 470 running The Witcher 3. Considering the cpu increase is not that great in the ps4 pro, it will most likely have a hard time keeping up in cpu demanding situations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39XRrwMv6h4