Gametrailer.com Editor Speaks Up

[QUOTE="maabus99"]

Seriously, do you all know what digital vibrance is? Been on PC's forever. This is the same thing...

If you use it on full on MOST TV's, you are going to crush your black levels and while you may "think" it looks better because you are causing "super whites" and it looks brighter/more vibrant, but in reality you are destroying a lot of the detail in the black area.

If you properly calibrate your HDTV, you should for the most part a.) see no difference with it on or off, save contrast change and/or b.) if the dynamic contrast is too low on the TV, lose details in your blacks.]

There is a reason this is "off" by default.

DaddyLongCaddy

Ditto. I've been trying to tell people this since the feature came out. Nobody listens. The feature is mainly to be used for computer monitors(that support full range color), not tvs. Your colors will be more vibrant, but you WILL lose shadow detail. Anybody who thinks this feature miraculously makes the graphics look better is kidding themselves. There are some tvs that can benefit from the feature though.

For the PS3 being A.) the most expensive console and b.) the only true HD "movie" player as is, I am amazed how big an uproar this is causing over what is a non issue to anyone who really knows what their kit can do. Truly shows the ignorance of folks and how much they walk the party line when a mob forms. Scary actually...

this also should answer questions of people that ask: what is better, component or HDMI?.. for video, virtually no difference.Always-Honest

[QUOTE="zeeerrr"]

what does this mean exactly?

Always-Honest

it means PS3 games look much better with FULL RGB on.

... What? The apparent conclusion to me would bethat for the PS3 HDMI is better since it allows FULL RGB. I've only seen my ps3 using hdmi and composite though, didn't bother with component cables.

Earlier GameTrailers caused an uproar with their confession in regards to how they video capture for multiplatform games from the PlayStation 3. Daniel Bloodworth, an Associate Editor of GameTrailers, protested that:

...we currently cannot capture in HDMI. The handshaking prohibits us from doing it, and there is currently not a satisfactory solution. We will gladly do so when we can. All comparison vids are done in 720p through component cables. The equipment and settings we use for each system are identical...

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showpost.php?p=7357921&postcount=34

Always-Honest

Doesn't make a difference since they are still comparing apples with apples. HDMI doesn't provide any noticeable difference over component.

They should have a disclaimer or sumthing. I mean just cause they are too cheap too update their biz, doesnt mean the rest of us are. Maybe sumthing that says "We are comparing these videos on the crappiest settings, So if you happen to have a decent HDTV with HDMI, it will look alot better!" ...or maybe they should start showing PC game previews/reviews on crappy PCs they buy straight from the store without changing or adding any hardware to achieve "default" mode...that way its all "fair".II_Seraphim_II

Or, you know, they can't record the output when it's on RGB mode because the HDMI cable has built in copy protection which is illegal to try to circumvent and makes it so you can't record the output. If you want, I'm sure they can turn on full RGB mode and record it with a camcorder pointed at the TV, but I'm pretty sure that will just make the game look worse.

[QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

Earlier GameTrailers caused an uproar with their confession in regards to how they video capture for multiplatform games from the PlayStation 3. Daniel Bloodworth, an Associate Editor of GameTrailers, protested that:

...we currently cannot capture in HDMI. The handshaking prohibits us from doing it, and there is currently not a satisfactory solution. We will gladly do so when we can. All comparison vids are done in 720p through component cables. The equipment and settings we use for each system are identical...

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showpost.php?p=7357921&postcount=34

RaveRabbid

Doesn't make a difference since they are still comparing apples with apples. HDMI doesn't provide any noticeable difference over component.

The whole point of this and the other threads was thathdmi DOES make a difference for the PS3. It can't output Full RGB over component for god knows what reason, and it looks worse over component as a result. I had thought before that GT was just buddy f***ing us, but it hadn't occured to me that hdmi couldn't be directly recorded due to the dang hdcp. This is really Sony's fault. Until they release a firmware update that allows full rgb over component, there's nothing they (GT) can do.

[QUOTE="RaveRabbid"][QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

Earlier GameTrailers caused an uproar with their confession in regards to how they video capture for multiplatform games from the PlayStation 3. Daniel Bloodworth, an Associate Editor of GameTrailers, protested that:

...we currently cannot capture in HDMI. The handshaking prohibits us from doing it, and there is currently not a satisfactory solution. We will gladly do so when we can. All comparison vids are done in 720p through component cables. The equipment and settings we use for each system are identical...

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showpost.php?p=7357921&postcount=34

mbrockway

Doesn't make a difference since they are still comparing apples with apples. HDMI doesn't provide any noticeable difference over component.

The whole point of this and the other threads was thathdmi DOES make a difference for the PS3. It can't output Full RGB over component for god knows what reason, and it looks worse over component as a result. I had thought before that GT was just buddy f***ing us, but it hadn't occured to me that hdmi couldn't be directly recorded due to the dang hdcp. This is really Sony's fault. Until they release a firmware update that allows full rgb over component, there's nothing they (GT) can do.

I have my PS3 connected through HDMI and my X360 over component. As far as I know, there is no discernable difference. Games I've compared are : The Darkness and COD 4. Never connected my PS3 through component.

[QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

Earlier GameTrailers caused an uproar with their confession in regards to how they video capture for multiplatform games from the PlayStation 3. Daniel Bloodworth, an Associate Editor of GameTrailers, protested that:

...we currently cannot capture in HDMI. The handshaking prohibits us from doing it, and there is currently not a satisfactory solution. We will gladly do so when we can. All comparison vids are done in 720p through component cables. The equipment and settings we use for each system are identical...

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showpost.php?p=7357921&postcount=34

RaveRabbid

Doesn't make a difference since they are still comparing apples with apples. HDMI doesn't provide any noticeable difference over component.

depends on what settings. HDMI doesn't provide any noticeable difference when full rgb is ON.... but HDMI looks worse when it's off..

What the...

As a Lemming, I loved rubbing in the 360's superiority, Im surprised they admit this.

Even though I thought it a possibility, my fanboyism didn't like to admit to it. I more or less laughed at cows for being paranoid.

Somehow, the Cows were right on this issue. Either way, so what, the PS3 games look better, you would think the PS3 games would BLOW away the 360, but they don't. That means my 360 is just fine.

Good job Cows, at being right for once.

The whole point of this and the other threads was thathdmi DOES make a difference for the PS3. It can't output Full RGB over component for god knows what reason, and it looks worse over component as a result. I had thought before that GT was just buddy f***ing us, but it hadn't occured to me that hdmi couldn't be directly recorded due to the dang hdcp. This is really Sony's fault. Until they release a firmware update that allows full rgb over component, there's nothing they (GT) can do.mbrockway

I agree, and i think this issue should really be addressed by Sony. However, the one thing that does annoy me is that GT has made little attempt to make this clear in their comparissons and reviews. Why are we being told this now? Would it not have made more sense to mention this when they actually made the "washed out" criticisms against assassins creed? Rather than simply say "its washed out" and act like theres nothing that can be done about it, thats just how it is. Like i said before, the people i feel really sorry for are the devs. The crash FM podcast mkaes it clear how hard it is to make a multiplat game run well on both systems, and the last thing you'd want to hear is a reviewer saying you got it wrong on one version because tehy didnt have the right settings.

Lame. They should have said this a long time ago so people viewing the videos wouldn't be so mislead.Chutebox

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]Lame. They should have said this a long time ago so people viewing the videos wouldn't be so mislead.zero9167

Because default settings favor 360, using component cables does the same.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying they did it on purpose.

[QUOTE="chikenfriedrice"]

they are both running 720P on component right? so what's the big deal? they are even comparisions

flashattackfina

They should display each console's highest possible settings

Why display the highest when at the very least everyone who owns one can run the standard ?

I don't see any Lemmings having a fit that 360 games aren't reviewed in HDMI :roll:

They should do the comparison from the cables straight out of the box. In which case they couldnt even show ps3 in hd.Bazfrag

Exactly, unless they showed them going out and purchasing them separately before every comparison, which woul dbe just as amusing.

They should do the comparison from the cables straight out of the box. In which case they couldnt even show ps3 in hd.Bazfrag

You really want to bring up the "out of the box" arguement here?

[QUOTE="flashattackfina"][QUOTE="chikenfriedrice"]

they are both running 720P on component right? so what's the big deal? they are even comparisions

BambooBanger

They should display each console's highest possible settings

Why display the highest when at the very least everyone who owns one can run the standard ?

I don't see any Lemmings having a fit that 360 games aren't reviewed in HDMI :roll:

Yeah, but Cows have been complaining about GT for how long...6 months or so? Since I am a Lemming, I know I laughed at them, and finally this turns out to actually be real. They cry conspiracy all the time, but this was real.

As far as your lemming arguement, HDMI in the 360 is only HDMI 1.2, not the PS3's HDMI 1.3. That may not be a good move, also most 360's sold in the world don't have a HDMI port.

[QUOTE="Bazfrag"]They should do the comparison from the cables straight out of the box. In which case they couldnt even show ps3 in hd.Chutebox

You really want to bring up the "out of the box" arguement here?

(I just ordered a ps3 from amazon, and that comes with a free hdmi cable)

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="Bazfrag"]They should do the comparison from the cables straight out of the box. In which case they couldnt even show ps3 in hd.Bazfrag

You really want to bring up the "out of the box" arguement here?

(I just ordered a ps3 from amazon, and that comes with a free hdmi cable)

haha, Awesome man.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="Bazfrag"]They should do the comparison from the cables straight out of the box. In which case they couldnt even show ps3 in hd.Bazfrag

You really want to bring up the "out of the box" arguement here?

(I just ordered a ps3 from amazon, and that comes with a free hdmi cable)

Still should have already been in the box thoughEmpCom

Although I tend to agree, there are A LOT of things already in the PS3 box that isn't in our 360's boxes.

PLay and Charge Kit, WiFi, Internet Browser Software, Blu-Ray Player, Progress Scan DVD playback, PS2 BC(In the Higher End models, right out of the box, 360=update thru LIVE)etc.

How much is too much?

I think sometimes we forget just how much stuff is crammed pack in the PS3, and just seem to want more, more more.

arent all games that are in HD programmed to be in 720p? it was my understanding the hdmi ports on both the 360 and ps3 were for HD VIDEO MOVIES not for games (yet, until the developers make the transition in programming games for 1080p)

if what i thiought is true, then the only difference in 720p and 1080p in a video game at the moment is the screensize and not the quality.

arent all games that are in HD programmed to be in 720p? it was my understanding the hdmi ports on both the 360 and ps3 were for HD VIDEO MOVIES not for games (yet, until the developers make the transition in programming games for 1080p)

if what i thiought is true, then the only difference in 720p and 1080p in a video game at the moment is the screensize and not the quality.

gearsofhalogeek

No one even mentioned resolution here and has nothing to do with it...I think.

[QUOTE="gearsofhalogeek"]

arent all games that are in HD programmed to be in 720p? it was my understanding the hdmi ports on both the 360 and ps3 were for HD VIDEO MOVIES not for games (yet, until the developers make the transition in programming games for 1080p)

if what i thiought is true, then the only difference in 720p and 1080p in a video game at the moment is the screensize and not the quality.

Chutebox

No one even mentioned resolution here and has nothing to do with it...I think.

ummm, i think your in the wrong thread, or, give me whatever your on right now...

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="gearsofhalogeek"]

arent all games that are in HD programmed to be in 720p? it was my understanding the hdmi ports on both the 360 and ps3 were for HD VIDEO MOVIES not for games (yet, until the developers make the transition in programming games for 1080p)

if what i thiought is true, then the only difference in 720p and 1080p in a video game at the moment is the screensize and not the quality.

gearsofhalogeek

No one even mentioned resolution here and has nothing to do with it...I think.

ummm, i think your in the wrong thread, or, give me whatever your on right now...

Right thread lol. This issue has nothing to do with resolution.

You people who are now discrediting the validity of these comparisons need to realize that they are still completely fair. Capturing footage through HDMI and native 1080p is not going to make colors look any less washed out or textures any better. Suddenly people think that HDMI and 1080p automatically means better graphics when really most people won't even be able to tell the difference.ChevelleFan

EXACTLY

high definition has nothing to do with color, its only resolution, sharpness and screensize that hd effects......

i dont know where people come up with some of these ideas....

You people who are now discrediting the validity of these comparisons need to realize that they are still completely fair. Capturing footage through HDMI and native 1080p is not going to make colors look any less washed out or textures any better. Suddenly people think that HDMI and 1080p automatically means better graphics when really most people won't even be able to tell the difference.ChevelleFan

Why are you bringing resolution into this? If you don't have a Ps3 you won't know why itmakes such a big difference have RGB on. When I turned it on, I saw a really big and good difference.

ummm whats the problem if its not the resolution? the TC said that gametrailers only use 720p when they capture the vids.gearsofhalogeek

Because with Ps3 you have to use HDMI to get RGB on, which enhances the display.

[QUOTE="ChevelleFan"]You people who are now discrediting the validity of these comparisons need to realize that they are still completely fair. Capturing footage through HDMI and native 1080p is not going to make colors look any less washed out or textures any better. Suddenly people think that HDMI and 1080p automatically means better graphics when really most people won't even be able to tell the difference.Chutebox

Why are you bringing resolution into this? If you don't have a Ps3 you won't know why itmakes such a big difference have RGB on. When I turned it on, I saw a really big and good difference.

All I am saying is that it is a completely fair comparison. Hell the 360 now has HDMI capabilities and can scale to 1080p so their really should be no argument. Give me a specific reason as to why RGB makes such a difference that the gametrailer comparisons are not reliable. If the argument isn't resolution then let me know what the real problem is. If everyone read the whole GT article their would be no problem.

whats RGB option do on the ps3 do anyway? same thing the color option on your TV does? or is it the something else?

and why would sony add this to a 1080p resolution and not the lower resolutions? (that sucks) when games use 720p at highest res unless its for hd movies? theres no difference between 720p and 1080p at this time because no game is made to use 1080p.

but i have been seeing alot of people posting all over the boards implying high resolution automatically means better graphics.....resolution is screensize, and sharpness, it has nothing to do with graphics (just puting that out there)

whats RGB option do on the ps3 do anyway? same thing the color option on your TV does? or is it the something else?

and why would sony add this to a 1080p resolution and not the lower resolutions? (that sucks) when games use 720p at highest res unless its for hd movies? theres no difference between 720p and 1080p at this time because no game is made to use 1080p.

but i have been seeing alot of people posting all over the boards implying high resolution automatically means better graphics.....resolution is screensize, and sharpness, it has nothing to do with graphics (just puting that out there)

gearsofhalogeek

it's at all resolutions. and it makes colors and black values much better. and it's called FULL RGB.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="ChevelleFan"]You people who are now discrediting the validity of these comparisons need to realize that they are still completely fair. Capturing footage through HDMI and native 1080p is not going to make colors look any less washed out or textures any better. Suddenly people think that HDMI and 1080p automatically means better graphics when really most people won't even be able to tell the difference.ChevelleFan

Why are you bringing resolution into this? If you don't have a Ps3 you won't know why itmakes such a big difference have RGB on. When I turned it on, I saw a really big and good difference.

All I am saying is that it is a completely fair comparison. Hell the 360 now has HDMI capabilities and can scale to 1080p so their really should be no argument. Give me a specific reason as to why RGB makes such a difference that the gametrailer comparisons are not reliable. If the argument isn't resolution then let me know what the real problem is. If everyone read the whole GT article their would be no problem.

Read two posts below yours for the answer. There are some pictures that also show the difference and it is very noticable to say the least.

oh so its kinda like the the 360s black level option that you can only use at 480p (and only used for movies and not games)

oh so its kinda like the the 360s black level option that you can only use at 480p (and only used for movies and not games)

gearsofhalogeek

basicly. Component cables also make for much better black values and beter color separation.

HDMI gives the option for full RGB. Most people will tuen that option ON (screen has to be able to support it though).

It makes quite the difference.

[QUOTE="gearsofhalogeek"]

oh so its kinda like the the 360s black level option that you can only use at 480p (and only used for movies and not games)

Always-Honest

basicly. Component cables also make for much better black values and beter color separation.

HDMI gives the option for full RGB. Most people will tuen that option ON (screen has to be able to support it though).

It makes quite the difference.

Yes, HUGE difference.

oh so its kinda like the the 360s black level option that you can only use at 480p (and only used for movies and not games)

gearsofhalogeek

I only discovered the 360 had some colour enhancing options today (called something totally different) whens omeone mentioned on SW.

I use 1080p over VGA and I could tell the difference immediately, I don't even think it's used for the 360 reviews.

[QUOTE="ChevelleFan"]You people who are now discrediting the validity of these comparisons need to realize that they are still completely fair. Capturing footage through HDMI and native 1080p is not going to make colors look any less washed out or textures any better. Suddenly people think that HDMI and 1080p automatically means better graphics when really most people won't even be able to tell the difference.gearsofhalogeek

EXACTLY

high definition has nothing to do with color, its only resolution, sharpness and screensize that hd effects......

i dont know where people come up with some of these ideas....

Cows desperately trying to defend inferior PS3 multi-plats, as per.

[QUOTE="gearsofhalogeek"]

[QUOTE="ChevelleFan"]You people who are now discrediting the validity of these comparisons need to realize that they are still completely fair. Capturing footage through HDMI and native 1080p is not going to make colors look any less washed out or textures any better. Suddenly people think that HDMI and 1080p automatically means better graphics when really most people won't even be able to tell the difference.BambooBanger

EXACTLY

high definition has nothing to do with color, its only resolution, sharpness and screensize that hd effects......

i dont know where people come up with some of these ideas....

Cows desperately trying to defend inferior PS3 multi-plats, as per.

You delusional people are the ones who brought up resolution.

The equipment and settings we use for each system are identical...

GameTrailers

Meaning, if the 360 doesn't have it, PS3 can't use it either

the question is not why GT doesnt use full RGB

the question is why the 360 uses it Directly, and the PS3 needs HDMI

whoody12

I'm willing to bet that what you are trying to say is false. That 360's best settings (HDMI or not) are not as clear as PS3's with the HDMI.

I've done it same game multi plat back to back and in most instances the 360 was graphically better. It's not like a huge difference but, a noticable difference. Most of the multi plat ps3 games seam to usually have more jaggies. btwI have a sony 1080p 60" sxrd rear projection t.v. both through hdmi.

carsales

Dude, all that tells us is what we already know; Games dev'd early in PS3's life as ports to the PS3 aren't good. And it has nothing to do with the PS3's abilities.

Its the games like Assassins, CoD4, and such, where dev'ing was done on the PS3 the right way, that can show us a more true comparison between the consoles. That hasn't been happening. That's the issue.

[QUOTE="gearsofhalogeek"]

oh so its kinda like the the 360s black level option that you can only use at 480p (and only used for movies and not games)

BambooBanger

I only discovered the 360 had some colour enhancing options today (called something totally different) whens omeone mentioned on SW.

I use 1080p over VGA and I could tell the difference immediately, I don't even think it's used for the 360 reviews.

no need to. it runs on component cables. it looks good allready

[QUOTE="gearsofhalogeek"]

[QUOTE="ChevelleFan"]You people who are now discrediting the validity of these comparisons need to realize that they are still completely fair. Capturing footage through HDMI and native 1080p is not going to make colors look any less washed out or textures any better. Suddenly people think that HDMI and 1080p automatically means better graphics when really most people won't even be able to tell the difference.BambooBanger

EXACTLY

high definition has nothing to do with color, its only resolution, sharpness and screensize that hd effects......

i dont know where people come up with some of these ideas....

Cows desperately trying to defend inferior PS3 multi-plats, as per.

Don't get it twisted. No one is saying that its the resolution change when connecting HDMi that will make the difference. Its the color setting you can make once the HDMI is connected that makes the difference.

Don't get it twisted.

you guys are really silly. HDMI doesn't make that much damn difference. Dreams-Visions

When the comparrison videos start turning out like this you know something is wrong, left is PS3 version with RGB turned off right is the 360 version. This really isnt a fair comparrison at all.

When the comparrison videos start turning out like this you know something is wrong, left is PS3 version with RGB turned off right is the 360 version. This really isnt a fair comparrison at all.

Dahaka-UK

Oh well, atleast I know my Ps3 version is going to look stellar.