GeOW2>>>R2 at gamerankings is a thorougly flawed and invalid argument.

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jessesalinas

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#51 jessesalinas
Member since 2007 • 2935 Posts
who cares? just enjoy them. both games are awesome.
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SpruceCaboose

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#52 SpruceCaboose
Member since 2005 • 24589 Posts

Resistance 2 average 88% at gamerankings based on 47 media outlets.

Gears of war 2 average 94% at gamerankings based on 64 media outlets.

Ah so notice the incredible flaw in this whole analogy?Gears 2 has 40% more reviews than R2.Thinker_reborn

Statistically, you could still make the case, regardless of the number of reviews.

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HarryCrackage

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#53 HarryCrackage
Member since 2004 • 1426 Posts
I realize that this is System Wars and arguments like this are inevitable but, cheese and rice, I think it is time to stop beating the dead horse. Both games are great and worthy of a purchase. Once their Gamespot reviews were complete this type of discussion should have died off after a couple of days. If you love the game, by all means, play it but are you all so insecure about your purchasing decisions that you need an internet message board pat on the back to assure you that your choice is better than someone else's? Is it so unfathomable to some of you that a title on a system other than yours is great?
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Ridlyz

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#54 Ridlyz
Member since 2008 • 58 Posts

Dude get over it

Gears 2 killed Resistance 2

If you wanna blame someone blame insomniac for making a flop

sorry but resistance 2 never stood a chance against gears 2

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Silverbond

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#55 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts

Dude get over it

Gears 2 killed Resistance 2

If you wanna blame someone blame insomniac for making a flop

sorry but resistance 2 never stood a chance against gears 2

Ridlyz

Dude, get over it. R2 and Gears 2 are equal.

If you wanna blame someone blame Cliffy B and Epic for making a game worse than the original.

Where do I get to that conclusion?

Gears 1=9.6 RFOM=8.6

G2=9.0 R2=9.0

"Standards change over time" is not a good argument because that allows R2 to reach higher standards than it normally would. G2's quality would have went down.

"The rating system is different!" That's even worse. Why not just give G2 a 9.5?

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Ridlyz

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#56 Ridlyz
Member since 2008 • 58 Posts
[QUOTE="Ridlyz"]

Dude get over it

Gears 2 killed Resistance 2

If you wanna blame someone blame insomniac for making a flop

sorry but resistance 2 never stood a chance against gears 2

Silverbond

Dude, get over it. R2 and Gears 2 are equal.

If you wanna blame someone blame Cliffy B and Epic for making a game worse than the original.

Where do I get to that conclusion?

Gears 1=9.6 RFOM=8.6

G2=9.0 R2=9.0

"Standards change over time" is not a good argument because that allows R2 to reach higher standards than it normally would. G2's quality would have went down.

"The rating system is different!" That's even worse. Why not just give G2 a 9.5?

No they arent equal not even close Last I checked 94% does not = 87% All your moaning and crying wont change the fact that Resistance 2 flopped and its not even in Gears 2 league
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Ridlyz

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#57 Ridlyz
Member since 2008 • 58 Posts
[QUOTE="Ren_eko"]Metacritic-- MGS4--94 with 80 reviews Gears2--93 with 74 reviews Does this mean MGS4 is better than Gears?Just because of a score?Grow some opinions people. PS-I do think MGS4 is waaaay better than Gears2

Um MGS4 has a 92% review ratio Gears 2 has a 94% BTW mgs4 sucked
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Silverbond

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#58 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts
[QUOTE="Silverbond"][QUOTE="Ridlyz"]

Dude get over it

Gears 2 killed Resistance 2

If you wanna blame someone blame insomniac for making a flop

sorry but resistance 2 never stood a chance against gears 2

Ridlyz

Dude, get over it. R2 and Gears 2 are equal.

If you wanna blame someone blame Cliffy B and Epic for making a game worse than the original.

Where do I get to that conclusion?

Gears 1=9.6 RFOM=8.6

G2=9.0 R2=9.0

"Standards change over time" is not a good argument because that allows R2 to reach higher standards than it normally would. G2's quality would have went down.

"The rating system is different!" That's even worse. Why not just give G2 a 9.5?

No they arent equal not even close Last I checked 94% does not = 87% All your moaning and crying wont change the fact that Resistance 2 flopped and its not even in Gears 2 league

Last I checked, this is Gamespot. Accept it and move on. ;)

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Ridlyz

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#59 Ridlyz
Member since 2008 • 58 Posts

You can hide behind GS all you want but face it

Resistance 2 was a failure

All your crying wont change that fact

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xion1234

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#60 xion1234
Member since 2007 • 235 Posts

You can hide behind GS all you want but face it

Resistance 2 was a failure

All your crying wont change that fact

Ridlyz
then go over there your such a baby you go cry over there i think you hate metal gear solid 4 for getting a 10 and your gear could not dont cry
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WasntAvailable

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#61 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

You can hide behind GS all you want but face it

Resistance 2 was a failure

All your crying wont change that fact

Ridlyz

Either you don't know what the definition of failure is, or you are a troll. My guess is the latter.

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Ninja-Hippo

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#62 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
To be fair, i think it's very reasonable to say Gears 2 is better than Resistance 2. I dont want to say "only fanboys would say otherwise" because obviously everyone has their own opinions, but i'd say there's no contest, really. Gears 2 is a better game overall but a decent margin.
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WasntAvailable

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#63 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

To be fair, i think it's very reasonable to say Gears 2 is better than Resistance 2. I dont want to say "only fanboys would say otherwise" because obviously everyone has their own opinions, but i'd say there's no contest, really. Gears 2 is a better game overall but a decent margin.Ninja-Hippo

I disagree. I felt Resistance 2 had a greater variety of enviroments, set peices and weapons. On top of that the multiplayer component is in my opinion is alot better. Besides, Chicago level > All. The only things I felt gears had over R2 were the graphics, length and the characters.

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Ridlyz

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#64 Ridlyz
Member since 2008 • 58 Posts

Resistance 2 isnt even close to Gears 2 league and the reviews prove it

Cows need to get over it

R2 was a generic and incredibly average shooter

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Leo-Magic

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#65 Leo-Magic
Member since 2005 • 3025 Posts
R2 is a ugly game man, getting a 9.0 is flawed.
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TREAL_Since

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#66 TREAL_Since
Member since 2005 • 11946 Posts
GR and Meta suck. Over the years they count more and more fan sites. And on top of that... they count the ones they want. Try IGN's GameStats :). Not perfect, but MUCH better.
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TREAL_Since

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#67 TREAL_Since
Member since 2005 • 11946 Posts

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]To be fair, i think it's very reasonable to say Gears 2 is better than Resistance 2. I dont want to say "only fanboys would say otherwise" because obviously everyone has their own opinions, but i'd say there's no contest, really. Gears 2 is a better game overall but a decent margin.WasntAvailable

I disagree. I felt Resistance 2 had a greater variety of enviroments, set peices and weapons. On top of that the multiplayer component is in my opinion is alot better. Besides, Chicago level > All. The only things I felt gears had over R2 were the graphics, length and the characters.

They are equal in terms of quality and fun factor IMO. Both have pros over the other. In the long run R2 has more content. But it's down to preference for most of us. Some sites have been very critical of R2 for no legitimate reason. I don't know why though. Gamepsot, IGN, and GT laid it down though (review wise)!
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Dynafrom

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#68 Dynafrom
Member since 2003 • 1027 Posts
[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

I don't agree, and neither does Gamespot.

hopesfall2own

Halo 2 received a 9.4 and Half Life 2 received a 9.2. Which do you think is better?

PC has higher standards.

PS3/360 have pretty much the same.

Why all the sudden do hermits keep bringing this up? :roll:[/QUOTE And why must you console gamers ignore this fact?
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Ridlyz

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#69 Ridlyz
Member since 2008 • 58 Posts

Gears 2 is pretty much better in every way

94%>>>>87%

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naruto7777

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#70 naruto7777
Member since 2007 • 8059 Posts
no i think Gears 2 was better bacuse of the story
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kaigani

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#71 kaigani
Member since 2004 • 50 Posts
oh yeah well my dad can beat up your dad
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LOXO7

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#72 LOXO7
Member since 2008 • 5595 Posts
360 shooters have more attention than PS3 shooters? no way man, no way. This thread proves the 360's definition.
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InsaneBasura

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#73 InsaneBasura
Member since 2005 • 12591 Posts

Resistance 2 average 88% at gamerankings based on 47 media outlets.

Gears of war 2 average 94% at gamerankings based on 64 media outlets.Thinker_reborn

Resistance 2 average 87% at Metacriticbased on 64 media outlets.

Happy?

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Ren_eko

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#74 Ren_eko
Member since 2008 • 764 Posts
[QUOTE="Ridlyz"][QUOTE="Ren_eko"]Metacritic-- MGS4--94 with 80 reviews Gears2--93 with 74 reviews Does this mean MGS4 is better than Gears?Just because of a score?Grow some opinions people. PS-I do think MGS4 is waaaay better than Gears2

Um MGS4 has a 92% review ratio Gears 2 has a 94% BTW mgs4 sucked

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/metalgearsolid4gunsofthepatriots?q=Metal Gear Solid 4 http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/gearsofwar2?q=Gears of war Making **** up FTW?
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Dreams-Visions

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#75 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts

Resistance 2 average 88% at gamerankings based on 47 media outlets.

Gears of war 2 average 94% at gamerankings based on 64 media outlets.

Ah so notice the incredible flaw in this whole analogy?Gears 2 has 40% more reviews than R2.Whether having more reviews is an advantage or disadvantage is irrelavent.Fact is that with that much disparity in the no. of reviews,it is simply illogical to directly compare the 2 averages and then declare the winner.

Going deeper in the reviews,it seems like using gamerankings for comparing games in general is just pointless.Let's see the no. of review outlets for gears that are instantly recognisable as biased.

X360 Magazine UK

Planet Xbox 360

TeamXbox

Official Xbox Magazine

XboxZone

Xbox Addict

MS Xbox World

Talk Xbox

Xbox World 360 Magazine UK

Xbox World Australia

Official Xbox Magazine UK

Totally360

So ya 12 reviews out of the 64 comprise of these sites/magazines.:|

Now lets look at R2 reviews.

PSX Extreme

Playstation Offcial Magazine UK

Playstation Offcial Magazine AU

PSM3 Magazine UK

So ya only 4 for R2.

So ya lemmings,gears 2 is not better in your "real world" as you think it is cuz gamerankings is no real world.

The only thing gears 2 tops R2 is sales and you can say gears 2 is more popular all you want but to say that it has been percieved as better by the overall media is laughable and just grasping for staws.

Thinker_reborn
the more reviews you have, the more difficult it is to maintain a high score. having more scores has always been a bad thing for a game aspiring to score really high. Resistance 2 will probably go LOWER with more reviews counted; not higher. I would have left this issue alone, as fewer review scores are actually helping R2's score more than hurting it. I will say this, though: *biased scoring* represents one of the reasons I've always been a staunch opponent of using GR scores for "which game is better than which" debates, because they include so many reviews...some of which may be biased. then again, I think the impact of certain scores is less than other, major sites and magazines...so I think they actually take that issue into account. Bottom line: stop whining. R2's scoring is probably higher now than it will be 2 months from now. and when we revisit this thread, Gears of War 2 will still be several points ahead of R2. and Cows will have to make due with the popular consensus being that Gears is a better, more polished, better presented product. Take heart. KillZone 2 cometh.
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Dreams-Visions

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#76 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts
[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

Resistance 2 average 88% at gamerankings based on 47 media outlets.

Gears of war 2 average 94% at gamerankings based on 64 media outlets.InsaneBasura

Resistance 2 average 87% at Metacriticbased on 64 media outlets.

Happy?

they'll find out the hard way that it will get WORSE...not better.
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3picuri3

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#77 3picuri3
Member since 2006 • 9618 Posts
have you played them both? i'm not a gears fan - but it blows R2 out of the water imho.
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Ren_eko

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#78 Ren_eko
Member since 2008 • 764 Posts
have you played them both? i'm not a gears fan - but it blows R2 out of the water imho. 3picuri3
Have you played them both? I think R2's weapons alone blow Gears out of the water.
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3picuri3

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#79 3picuri3
Member since 2006 • 9618 Posts
[QUOTE="3picuri3"]have you played them both? i'm not a gears fan - but it blows R2 out of the water imho. Ren_eko
Have you played them both? I think R2's weapons alone blow Gears out of the water.

weapons don't make a game for me. and yes, unlike some people around here i play things before saying i have... R2 had potential with the massive multiplayer matches, the concept was neat, but it didn't pan out as well as they'd planned imho.
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FirstDiscovery

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#80 FirstDiscovery
Member since 2008 • 5508 Posts
[QUOTE="3picuri3"]have you played them both? i'm not a gears fan - but it blows R2 out of the water imho. Ren_eko
Have you played them both? I think R2's weapons alone blow Gears out of the water.

Have you played on an XBOX 360? You are a known Cow...:|
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Ren_eko

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#81 Ren_eko
Member since 2008 • 764 Posts
[QUOTE="Ren_eko"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]have you played them both? i'm not a gears fan - but it blows R2 out of the water imho. FirstDiscovery
Have you played them both? I think R2's weapons alone blow Gears out of the water.

Have you played on an XBOX 360? You are a known Cow...:|

I have played Gears2 on my cousins place(not that much though) and i played Gears1 when i owned a 360(i owned a 360 from release date until the release of MGS4), like you say i have no problem admiting i have bias in favour of Sony , but i am not anti-360 or anti-anything else for that matter.
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Ren_eko

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#82 Ren_eko
Member since 2008 • 764 Posts
[QUOTE="Ren_eko"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]have you played them both? i'm not a gears fan - but it blows R2 out of the water imho. 3picuri3
Have you played them both? I think R2's weapons alone blow Gears out of the water.

weapons don't make a game for me. and yes, unlike some people around here i play things before saying i have... R2 had potential with the massive multiplayer matches, the concept was neat, but it didn't pan out as well as they'd planned imho.

I disagree in shooters weapons matter a lot , but like i said i think weapons alone make R2 better , add the game itself and in my eyes Gears has no chance.
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Senor_Kami

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#83 Senor_Kami
Member since 2008 • 8529 Posts

Ren_eko
You do realize that 5 of those 12 XBOX only sources rated GEOW2 below the average, while 3/4 of those PS sources rated R2 above the average, right?Shafftehr
More reviews LOWER the score:?FirstDiscovery
All of this plus the fact that these are averages. The more data in your sample set, the less each individual point affects the average.

Cows are reaching. If Gamespot is really God to you guys, bowdown and admit that the crapfest known as Perfect Dark Zero = Resistance 2

/thread

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EuroMafia

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#84 EuroMafia
Member since 2008 • 7026 Posts

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]More reviews LOWER the score:?heretrix

LOL. Beat me to it. More scores increase the chances of it skewing lower. It seems like the Gamerankings argument isn't the only one that's flawed.

"Hey, let's assume R2 will score higher than its percentage, that means it will increase" Disclaimer: TC did not actually say that.
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pi3m4ster

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#85 pi3m4ster
Member since 2008 • 522 Posts

[QUOTE="Ren_eko"] [QUOTE="Shafftehr"]You do realize that 5 of those 12 XBOX only sources rated GEOW2 below the average, while 3/4 of those PS sources rated R2 above the average, right?Senor_Kami

More reviews LOWER the score:?FirstDiscovery
All of this plus the fact that these are averages. The more data in your sample set, the less each individual point affects the average.

Cows are reaching. If Gamespot is really God to you guys, bowdown and admit that the crapfest known as Perfect Dark Zero = Resistance 2

/thread

well played well played
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StewieZim101

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#86 StewieZim101
Member since 2007 • 1081 Posts
Fanboys: Use Gamespot when your game wins, but use some other far-flung site when it doesn't.
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Snowboarder99

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#87 Snowboarder99
Member since 2006 • 5460 Posts

Well I just made some calculations. I took the average of the scores from places that only reviewed both games and here is what I got:

Based on 38 reviews:

Gears of War 2: 9.4

Resistance 2: 8.76

I may have missed a couple but I doubt it will make too much of a difference. In fact, to compensate I took out a very low score given to Resistance 2. You can do it yourself if you wish.

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Jamiemydearx3

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#88 Jamiemydearx3
Member since 2008 • 4062 Posts
More reviews usually mean lower scoer. o_O
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Pimpshigity21

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#89 Pimpshigity21
Member since 2005 • 1896 Posts

Yep, and that's exactly why we use Gamespot here. Floppy_Jim

LMFAO.

Cows love to live on planet Gamespot right now...but there will be an exodus of galactic proportions from the tiny planet when some anticipated PS3 game receives a low score in GS, but the combined scores from different sites add up to a higher and more palatable score.

Yeah, cows will journey to either Spacestation Metacritic or Starship Gamerankings faster than you can say "Ratchet and Clank".
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3picuri3

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#90 3picuri3
Member since 2006 • 9618 Posts
[QUOTE="Ren_eko"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Ren_eko"] Have you played them both? I think R2's weapons alone blow Gears out of the water.

weapons don't make a game for me. and yes, unlike some people around here i play things before saying i have... R2 had potential with the massive multiplayer matches, the concept was neat, but it didn't pan out as well as they'd planned imho.

I disagree in shooters weapons matter a lot , but like i said i think weapons alone make R2 better , add the game itself and in my eyes Gears has no chance.

they matter, but they don't make the game imo. the sp campaign for Gears 2 is significantly better than the R2 campaign in my mind... and like i said, not a huge gears fan. just found there were more epic 'wow' moments, and better core gameplay. R2 does have neat weapons, but its just not enough for people to consider it better imo. what are weapons with a sub-par campaign? they're basically just fun in MP.
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Ren_eko

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#91 Ren_eko
Member since 2008 • 764 Posts

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]Yep, and that's exactly why we use Gamespot here. Pimpshigity21

LMFAO.

Cows love to live on planet Gamespot right now...but there will be an exodus of galactic proportions from the tiny planet when some anticipated PS3 game receives a low score in GS, but the combined scores from different sites add up to a higher and more palatable score.

Yeah, cows will journey to either Spacestation Metacritic or Starship Gamerankings faster than you can say "Ratchet and Clank".

Both si....hell all sides do that (cows,lemmings,hermits and even....sheep?).
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Ren_eko

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#92 Ren_eko
Member since 2008 • 764 Posts
[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Ren_eko"][QUOTE="3picuri3"] weapons don't make a game for me. and yes, unlike some people around here i play things before saying i have... R2 had potential with the massive multiplayer matches, the concept was neat, but it didn't pan out as well as they'd planned imho.

I disagree in shooters weapons matter a lot , but like i said i think weapons alone make R2 better , add the game itself and in my eyes Gears has no chance.

they matter, but they don't make the game imo. the sp campaign for Gears 2 is significantly better than the R2 campaign in my mind... and like i said, not a huge gears fan. just found there were more epic 'wow' moments, and better core gameplay. R2 does have neat weapons, but its just not enough for people to consider it better imo. what are weapons with a sub-par campaign? they're basically just fun in MP.

The SP isnt sub-par ...its average with a few "wow" moments(Chicago FTW) and it has a cliffhanger handing that leaves wanting for more(gears SP is still better though).
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Floppy_Jim

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#93 Floppy_Jim
Member since 2007 • 25933 Posts

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]Yep, and that's exactly why we use Gamespot here. Pimpshigity21

LMFAO.

Cows love to live on planet Gamespot right now...but there will be an exodus of galactic proportions from the tiny planet when some anticipated PS3 game receives a low score in GS, but the combined scores from different sites add up to a higher and more palatable score.

Yeah, cows will journey to either Spacestation Metacritic or Starship Gamerankings faster than you can say "Ratchet and Clank".

I've just realized that you're completely right. After MGS4's 10 and Resistance 2 matching Gears of War 2, I did not see ANY Xbox fans try to downplay the scores or mention Gamerankings instead. And I mean NONE whatsoever, it's a fact. If you compare that to the Ratchet and Lair situations, it really shows us that there is only 1 group in here that act like hypocrites.

Honestly, I don't know what the hell is wrong with Cows. Why can't they be more like the Xbox fans? Like you, Mr Pimpshigity, you're a shining example of how people on this site should act.

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-TheSecondSign-

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#94 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9303 Posts

Gears of War 2: 9.0

Resistance 2: 9.0

And gamerankings SUCKS.

Find the first two Fallouts and Planescape: Torment and Baldurs Gate 2. Where are they?

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Silverbond

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#95 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]Yep, and that's exactly why we use Gamespot here. Pimpshigity21

LMFAO.

Cows love to live on planet Gamespot right now...but there will be an exodus of galactic proportions from the tiny planet when some anticipated PS3 game receives a low score in GS, but the combined scores from different sites add up to a higher and more palatable score.

Yeah, cows will journey to either Spacestation Metacritic or Starship Gamerankings faster than you can say "Ratchet and Clank".

Like how lemmings did when MGS 4 outscored Halo 3? It doesn't matter. Either way we only use GS.

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Floppy_Jim

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#96 Floppy_Jim
Member since 2007 • 25933 Posts
[QUOTE="Pimpshigity21"]

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]Yep, and that's exactly why we use Gamespot here. Ren_eko

LMFAO.

Cows love to live on planet Gamespot right now...but there will be an exodus of galactic proportions from the tiny planet when some anticipated PS3 game receives a low score in GS, but the combined scores from different sites add up to a higher and more palatable score.

Yeah, cows will journey to either Spacestation Metacritic or Starship Gamerankings faster than you can say "Ratchet and Clank".

Both si....hell all sides do that (cows,lemmings,hermits and even....sheep?).

No no no, Lemmings and Sheep would NEVER do that. It's only Cows who do it and that is a FACT. Pimpshigity21 can prove this, I'm sure he has a lot of evidence and links he can show you.
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Pimpshigity21

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#97 Pimpshigity21
Member since 2005 • 1896 Posts
[QUOTE="Pimpshigity21"]

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]Yep, and that's exactly why we use Gamespot here. Ren_eko

LMFAO.

Cows love to live on planet Gamespot right now...but there will be an exodus of galactic proportions from the tiny planet when some anticipated PS3 game receives a low score in GS, but the combined scores from different sites add up to a higher and more palatable score.

Yeah, cows will journey to either Spacestation Metacritic or Starship Gamerankings faster than you can say "Ratchet and Clank".

Both si....hell all sides do that (cows,lemmings,hermits and even....sheep?).

True, but cows are more sensitive when it comes to scores. The 360 has so many AAA and AA titles available that a few lower than expected scores do not ruffle a lemming's feathers that much. Great titles are a dime a dozen on the PC, so Hermits just get all amused from any attemp to chest pound by console owners...and sheep, well, all they care about is waving their little controllers around.

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Ren_eko

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#98 Ren_eko
Member since 2008 • 764 Posts
[QUOTE="Ren_eko"][QUOTE="Pimpshigity21"]

LMFAO.

Cows love to live on planet Gamespot right now...but there will be an exodus of galactic proportions from the tiny planet when some anticipated PS3 game receives a low score in GS, but the combined scores from different sites add up to a higher and more palatable score.

Yeah, cows will journey to either Spacestation Metacritic or Starship Gamerankings faster than you can say "Ratchet and Clank".Floppy_Jim
Both si....hell all sides do that (cows,lemmings,hermits and even....sheep?).

No no no, Lemmings and Sheep would NEVER do that. It's only Cows who do it and that is a FACT. Pimpshigity21 can prove this, I'm sure he has a lot of evidence and links he can show you.

Damn youre right , im sorry for disturbing his pinnacle of righteousness that is pimpshigity21 , forgive for my ignorant comments , floppy_Jim lets praise this man who is a shining beacon for humanity.
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Pimpshigity21

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#99 Pimpshigity21
Member since 2005 • 1896 Posts

Like you, Mr Pimpshigity, you're a shining example of how people on this site should act.

Floppy_Jim

Oh no, you've hurt my feelers. If I go out and buy 20 copies of LBP and Resistance2...you know, to pad the embarasing sales figures a little bit...will you promise to love me again?

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deactivated-5e7be39d87e0b

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#100 deactivated-5e7be39d87e0b
Member since 2005 • 4624 Posts
PimpShigity21= New leader of the Lemming Army