Good A.I vs Bad A.I

I'm making this thread because I saw in another thread someone said that the enemies in Uncharted 2 had bad A.I. I thought this was false because it's not like the enemies stay there and try to shoot you. They actually try to flank you and throw bombs at you.

Then I thought maybe i haven't been playing games with "good" A.I. Or maybe the qualiity of the A.I. is subjective based on the games the gamer has played.

So tell me system wars, what is A.I. to you, and which system has the games with the better A.I?

Which system has the best AI? Wut. SilverChimera

I'm making this thread because I saw in another thread someone said that the enemies in Uncharted 2 had bad A.I. I thought this was false because it's not like the enemies stay there and try to shoot you. They actually try to flank you and throw bombs at you.

Then I thought maybe i haven't been playing games with "good" A.I. Or maybe the qualiity of the A.I. is subjective based on the games the gamer has played.

So tell me system wars, what is A.I. to you, and which system has the games with the better A.I?

Tweetie-Pot

;) Of course they systems can't have better than each other.

They actually try to flank you and throw bombs at you.

Tweetie-Pot

Hey!

That's what the marines do in Half Life!

And everyone who's played that game knows how good the AI is 8)

Depends on what the bad A.I is causing an NPC to do & how sober I am at the time of playing.

It's stuff like this that makes gaming that little bit sweeter. NSFW (language)

Games I typically compare to demonstrate good and bad AI are God of War and Kingdom Hearts II. God of War's AI demands you actually utilize all your abilities and fine-tune your techniques before being able to kill off baddies, while KHII has abilities you'll never need to learn because you can literally press the "win button" on your controller and watch the credits roll.

As far as Uncharted goes, I disagree that it has bad AI, I think it's AI level is well-balanced. Many of the enemies don't really vary their moves, but when set against you as a unit, there is a steep challenge at times.

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Good AI = FEAR. Even 2-3 of them can suppress and flank you.

Gears and Uncharted 2 have decent AI that never feels cheap and keeps the pacing going.

Halo CE still has some of the best AI of all time. I think it's mainly due to the different races of aliens that gives it so much variety.

Games I typically compare to demonstrate good and bad AI are God of War and Kingdom Hearts II. God of War's AI demands you actually utilize all your abilities and fine-tune your techniques before being able to kill off baddies, while KHII has abilities you'll never need to learn because you can literally press the "win button" on your controller and watch the credits roll.

As far as Uncharted goes, I disagree that it has bad AI, I think it's AI level is well-balanced. Many of the enemies don't really vary their moves, but when set against you as a unit, there is a steep challenge at times.

Basinboy

There's a lot of games that have 'good' AI, but not so many with 'great' AI, then there's a lot with 'bad' AI.

From what I've heard/stories my friends have told me (I'm terrible at them so I haven't been able to really experience it), the NHL games (09 and up?) have pretty good AI.

I don't know about good A.I. I don't think I ever played a game where it just blew me away. FEAR was really cool, but the A.I got really predictable to the point where I played through the entire game on hard mode without using slow-motion and mopped the floor (granted that was on my fourth playthrough).

I don't think any A.I is that great yet, because no one is "unpredictable". That would revolutionize the experience.

Bad A.I, for me is probably the kind found in games like Borderlands (someone mentioned this problem above me) where the A.I isn't very good, so they just throw a bunch of hard to kill enemies at you.
Also, Metro 2033 (and I love this game) has some pretty shotty A.I with enemies that don't entire hide themselves when they look for cover.

The only A.I that has really impressed me, because I haven't seen it anywhere else since the game came out, Is RE4. The enemies maybe be mindless zombies, but they use the enviroment to get to you and, most importantly, they sidestep and duck out of the way of your aiming redicle. This is the only game where enemies will dodge you based on who you're aiming your gun at. Shootsers need to do this, so enemies don't just run for cover when they start being hit.

I don't know about good A.I. I don't think I ever played a game where it just blew me away. FEAR was really cool, but the A.I got really predictable to the point where I played through the entire game on hard mode without using slow-motion and mopped the floor (granted that was on my fourth playthrough).

vadicta

You can't really blame the game for that. If you play any game a certain number of times enought to memorize the enemies moves, of course the A.I. will seem bad.

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Good AI = FEAR. Even 2-3 of them can suppress and flank you.

Gears and Uncharted 2 have decent AI that never feels cheap and keeps the pacing going.

Halo CE still has some of the best AI of all time. I think it's mainly due to the different races of aliens that gives it so much variety.

Wasdie

Agreed 100%. I remember watching the Marines, Covenant and Flood battle it out while I just sat back, and saw different outcomes every time. Still awesome.

One of reasons CoD has never impressed me and the love it's campaigns get baffles me.

There's only one answer. The best AI in a game is the Goombas in Super Mario Bros. Or, the second best AI in a game is the opponents in Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

Depends on what the bad A.I is causing an NPC to do & how sober I am at the time of playing.

It's stuff like this that makes gaming that little bit sweeter. NSFW (language)

Twin-Blade

Stalkers AI is incredible, but can be stupid at times. :lol: I've seen a pack of dogs drag a dead body away and started eating it which was awesome. :)

From Wikipedia:

_____

The X-ray engine uses GSC Game World's proprietary ALife artificial intelligence engine. ALife supports more than one thousand characters inhabiting the Zone. These characters are non-scripted, meaning that AI life can be developed even when not in contact with the player.

The NPCs have a full life cycle (task accomplishment, combat, rest, feeding and sleep) and the same applies to the many monsters living in the Zone (hunting, attacking stalkers and other monsters, resting, eating, sleeping). These monsters migrate in large groups. The non-scripted nature of the characters means that there are an unlimited number of random quests. For instance, rescuing stalkers from danger, destroying stalker renegades, protecting or attacking stalker camps or searching for treasure. The AI characters travel around the entire zone as they see fit.

Numerous tactics can be employed to complete the game, such as rushing or using stealth and sniping. The NPCs will react in a different way to each of them. S.T.A.L.K.E.R.'s NPCs plan ahead by "Goal-Oriented Action Planning" to achieve this.

____

The Crysis human AI can be impressive too, if you haven't screwed up the game with mods.

Did someone say bad A.I.?T3H_1337_N1NJ4

:lol: This ones better. :P

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

moose_knuckler

MW2 doesn't have good AI. They sit behind cover, throw nades, and shoot.

None of the CoD games have had good AI ever. They have always relied on numbers.

[QUOTE="moose_knuckler"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Wasdie

MW2 doesn't have good AI. They sit behind cover, throw nades, and shoot.

None of the CoD games have had good AI ever. They have always relied on numbers.

To each his own, I guess. Playing on vet. was a bit more than your description of it.moose_knuckler

Playing on vet they just shoot more accurately and throw more grenades at your feet.

The ai in Reach with some activated skulls was decent, The elites were pretty aggressive would even rush at you. But I didnt like that they could spot you even from places that would have been impossible for then to spot me, and still be able to get a perfect shot at me. Also when I stick you with a grenade in your face I expect you to die, not live on and still kill me.

Even though if it tends to be buried beneath clumsy animation and bugginess, the AI of the Stalker games is actually really impressive. Especially in Call of Pripyat they just do what you do, it's really impressive to even observe the AI.

Another obvious game to mention is F.E.A.R.: it was one of the first games I remember that made enemy AI act as a team, and this added a huge amount of replay value to an incredibly linear game.

Crysis human AI can be both impressive and retarded, but I cherish it because it's one of the few modern shooters in which stealth actually works.

Bad AI is CoD, but that's mostly because the game relies more on arcade type gameplay, and smart AI would probably add too much depth to the gameplay for it to maintain its straightforward, no-nonsense character. AI in old GTA games was really bad (it's passable in IV), and Mirror's Edge also has some extremely sloppy combat AI, but it must say that 95% of that game consisted of platforming rather than action.

God of War's AI demands you actually utilize all your abilities and fine-tune your techniques before being able to kill off baddies,Basinboy

I've only played1 and 2, but I got through those using my basic attacks 90% of the time. I think I didn't even use most attacks more than a few times, so I'm gonna have to disagree with that statement.

[QUOTE="moose_knuckler"]To each his own, I guess. Playing on vet. was a bit more than your description of it.Wasdie

Playing on vet they just shoot more accurately and throw more grenades at your feet.

Good AI: Killzone 2 , gears 2, uncharted 2 , batman arkham asylum ( on hard). Bad AI: Fear 2 , Assassins creed 2, Yakuza 3 (sometimes) , fallout 3 , farcry 2 , GTA IV.johny300

I thought Gears 1 / 2 had pretty mediocre AI. It was like playing Locust Whack-A-Mole. Fear 2 AI was fairly decent, but was dissapointing when taking Fear 1s AI in consideration. It was a step back imo.

[QUOTE="johny300"]Good AI: Killzone 2 , gears 2, uncharted 2 , batman arkham asylum ( on hard). Bad AI: Fear 2 , Assassins creed 2, Yakuza 3 (sometimes) , fallout 3 , farcry 2 , GTA IV.WhenCicadasCry

I thought Gears 1 / 2 had pretty mediocre AI. It was like playing Locust Whack-A-Mole. Fear 2 AI was fairly decent, but was dissapointing when taking Fear 1s AI in consideration. It was a step back imo.

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Good AI = FEAR. Even 2-3 of them can suppress and flank you.

Gears and Uncharted 2 have decent AI that never feels cheap and keeps the pacing going.

Halo CE still has some of the best AI of all time. I think it's mainly due to the different races of aliens that gives it so much variety.

Wasdie

Killzone 2, Geow 1 and 2 have pretty good AI. Arma 2 is good in places considering its complexity. Crackdown has always had some of the most embarrassing AI, they literally just stand there waiting to die. Saints rows AI is also pretty stupid but it actually seems to fit in with the rest of the game.

An honourable mention goes to Mass Effect 2 on (Insanity mainly); i don't think i've ever experienced AI so eager to jump over cover the player is crouched behind, and ofcourse the only way to survive is to do the same, which just made the end battle truely absurd. The friendly AI has a hard enough time trying to cover on the right side of a wall. I'm guessing its the AI trying to out-flank you but the level design meaning they just end up climbing over you. i'm not sure if that makes the AI good or bad. it depends on the difficulty.

Good AI: Killzone 2 enemy ai at higher difficulties. (I'm sick of people who have only played med difficulty or less in Kz2 who say the AI is bad. PLAY THE HARDER DIFFICULTIES. Enemies get smarter, not just stronger like in most games)

[QUOTE="johny300"]Good AI: Killzone 2 , gears 2, uncharted 2 , batman arkham asylum ( on hard). Bad AI: Fear 2 , Assassins creed 2, Yakuza 3 (sometimes) , fallout 3 , farcry 2 , GTA IV.WhenCicadasCry

I thought Gears 1 / 2 had pretty mediocre AI. It was like playing Locust Whack-A-Mole. Fear 2 AI was fairly decent, but was dissapointing when taking Fear 1s AI in consideration. It was a step back imo.

Yeah, FEAR 2 as a whole had the problem that it was overshadowed by its predecessor in many ways. The AI was actually pretty impressive in its own right: there certainly are worse games out there.

[QUOTE="T3H_1337_N1NJ4"]Did someone say bad A.I.?WhenCicadasCry

:lol: This ones better. :P

Single-player is what's important to me, so AI is everything.

Borderlands has decent AI...if you're not careful, skags will try to flank you and attack from behind.

FEAR 1 AI is epic

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Good AI = FEAR. Even 2-3 of them can suppress and flank you.

Gears and Uncharted 2 have decent AI that never feels cheap and keeps the pacing going.

Halo CE still has some of the best AI of all time. I think it's mainly due to the different races of aliens that gives it so much variety.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="moose_knuckler"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Wasdie

MW2 doesn't have good AI. They sit behind cover, throw nades, and shoot.

None of the CoD games have had good AI ever. They have always relied on numbers.

i agree waw had the cheapest difficulty in a game i ever saw,the grenade spamming was unreal

Good AI: FEAR

Bad AI: Gears of War PC with the dead AI bug:P or any CoD(well maybe the original was still on the standard).

Anyways what about games that have good AI(as in enemies and allies have a big set of actions they can perform individually and in group) but are degraded by bugs that may happen? Such things happen in games like GRAW PC and ARMA 2. Would these games be considered good AI or bad AI?

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Good AI = FEAR. Even 2-3 of them can suppress and flank you.

Gears and Uncharted 2 have decent AI that never feels cheap and keeps the pacing going.

Halo CE still has some of the best AI of all time. I think it's mainly due to the different races of aliens that gives it so much variety.

Michael0134567

Gears 2 had good AI.

now Gears 1's AI was pretty bad. they'd bum rush and stand out of cover a lot. Gears 1 is still the better game as a whole, though.

[QUOTE="Michael0134567"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Bad AI = Call of Duty. Solution? Throw tons of them at you.

Good AI = FEAR. Even 2-3 of them can suppress and flank you.

Gears and Uncharted 2 have decent AI that never feels cheap and keeps the pacing going.

Halo CE still has some of the best AI of all time. I think it's mainly due to the different races of aliens that gives it so much variety.

HavocV3

Gears 2 had good AI.

now Gears 1's AI was pretty bad. they'd bum rush and stand out of cover a lot. Gears 1 is still the better game as a whole, though.

Games I typically compare to demonstrate good and bad AI are God of War and Kingdom Hearts II. God of War's AI demands you actually utilize all your abilities and fine-tune your techniques before being able to kill off baddies, while KHII has abilities you'll never need to learn because you can literally press the "win button" on your controller and watch the credits roll.

As far as Uncharted goes, I disagree that it has bad AI, I think it's AI level is well-balanced. Many of the enemies don't really vary their moves, but when set against you as a unit, there is a steep challenge at times.

I always define bad AI not by how challenging they are, but how they break immersion and reming you that you're playing a game. A good AI will make you forget that it's a bot. This is especially obvious in sports games. Bad AI will cheat to stay competitive with you. That also goes for Civ 2 versus Civ4. Civ 2 has a lot of cheating AI (civ 3 can be really bad). Anyone who played the original Street Fighter 2 can attest to how bad that AI was. Guile was really bad. He was extremely difficult to beat and he did it by doing things that no human player could do.

I always define bad AI not by how challenging they are, but how they break immersion and reming you that you're playing a game. A good AI will make you forget that it's a bot. This is especially obvious in sports games. Bad AI will cheat to stay competitive with you. That also goes for Civ 2 versus Civ4. Civ 2 has a lot of cheating AI (civ 3 can be really bad). Anyone who played the original Street Fighter 2 can attest to how bad that AI was. Guile was really bad. He was extremely difficult to beat and he did it by doing things that no human player could do.

GunSmith1_basic

I dont like AI that cheats real blatantly.

Also, I dont plat the Civilization games, but Civ AI cheats??? That must really be upsetting for the type of game that it is. Did they solve it for Civ 5?

I always define bad AI not by how challenging they are, but how they break immersion and reming you that you're playing a game. A good AI will make you forget that it's a bot. This is especially obvious in sports games. Bad AI will cheat to stay competitive with you. That also goes for Civ 2 versus Civ4. Civ 2 has a lot of cheating AI (civ 3 can be really bad). Anyone who played the original Street Fighter 2 can attest to how bad that AI was. Guile was really bad. He was extremely difficult to beat and he did it by doing things that no human player could do.

GunSmith1_basic

Balrog was the worst. I remember trying to get the achievement for my little bro on SF2 Turbo on hardest difficulty (I'm a godly SF player 8)), and I swear, he must have done his rushing punch special move like 10 times in a row without even charging. I couldn't stop lol'ing at how bad the AI was cheating. :lol: Here's a vid of it.