Gran Turismo vs. Forza

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crunchUK

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#51 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"][QUOTE="leejohnson7"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

I hate emotional arguments and GT vs. Forza may possibly be the ultimate SW emotional argument.

GT is the past folks, no damage, no ability to chat to the other racers, not even online until a short time ago.

In almost every respect that can be measured logically GT is behind the times and the only thing proping up this game now is sentimentality and nostalgia.

Graphics are more important than features and those graphics are only achieved at the expense of realtime cosmetic changes to the cars? People may want to start upgrading their priorities.

I'm a pretty big GT fan and even own the coffee table book Driving the Game but when every other race game raised the standard and GT did not follow they lost me.

leejohnson7

No damage is subjective here, and personally I could care about it, but it's just a casual selling point to me. Online experience with sims can be bad, especially on XBL. Lag, disconnections, unsporting behavior and racing backwards are things you don't see in single player (at least not intentionally).

If they actually do want to implement damage, then I want to see them do it right as well; my feelings are that this game is meant to be a simulator, and therefor it either simulates the race with a decent collision penalty system as well or it can stay out of GT.

Every online race game I've played for the last 3 years makes the guy driving backwards collision detector not go off and renders him as a wireframe or ghost that you drive through.

My experences online are not negative because I contol who gets booted in my games. If someone is a jerk then they are gone, it's as simple as that.

This whole people hurt my feelings online argument has been done to death and that is the responsibilty of the host.

I'm a good host and work hard to protect the people I game with and as a result of that have piles of great gamers on my friends list that have fun while racing and playing any other type of game online.

We need to start placing the blame where the blame is due, online gaming is not inherently broken.

lol, but that kind of detaches you from the sense of realism these simulators are supposed to have, hence I play offline. Why risk ruining the experience right?

to see how well you match up against other players :roll:. although in racers i only really play ranked matches because well people don't mess around

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leejohnson7

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#52 leejohnson7
Member since 2007 • 2909 Posts
[QUOTE="leejohnson7"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"][QUOTE="leejohnson7"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

I hate emotional arguments and GT vs. Forza may possibly be the ultimate SW emotional argument.

GT is the past folks, no damage, no ability to chat to the other racers, not even online until a short time ago.

In almost every respect that can be measured logically GT is behind the times and the only thing proping up this game now is sentimentality and nostalgia.

Graphics are more important than features and those graphics are only achieved at the expense of realtime cosmetic changes to the cars? People may want to start upgrading their priorities.

I'm a pretty big GT fan and even own the coffee table book Driving the Game but when every other race game raised the standard and GT did not follow they lost me.

crunchUK

No damage is subjective here, and personally I could care about it, but it's just a casual selling point to me. Online experience with sims can be bad, especially on XBL. Lag, disconnections, unsporting behavior and racing backwards are things you don't see in single player (at least not intentionally).

If they actually do want to implement damage, then I want to see them do it right as well; my feelings are that this game is meant to be a simulator, and therefor it either simulates the race with a decent collision penalty system as well or it can stay out of GT.

Every online race game I've played for the last 3 years makes the guy driving backwards collision detector not go off and renders him as a wireframe or ghost that you drive through.

My experences online are not negative because I contol who gets booted in my games. If someone is a jerk then they are gone, it's as simple as that.

This whole people hurt my feelings online argument has been done to death and that is the responsibilty of the host.

I'm a good host and work hard to protect the people I game with and as a result of that have piles of great gamers on my friends list that have fun while racing and playing any other type of game online.

We need to start placing the blame where the blame is due, online gaming is not inherently broken.

lol, but that kind of detaches you from the sense of realism these simulators are supposed to have, hence I play offline. Why risk ruining the experience right?

to see how well you match up against other players :roll:. although in racers i only really play ranked matches because well people don't mess around

Fair enough but you are still more likely to get a better experience out of the single players AI unless you are with very skilled players or something.

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ColdScorpion

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#53 ColdScorpion
Member since 2005 • 506 Posts
Even with GT5 being incomplete it still beats Forza 2. Forza 2 and GT is like Warhawk compared to Ace Combat.
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SecretPolice

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#54 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45558 Posts

@ leejohnson7

Sooooo, ya think from these past talks on Forza2 Vs GT5P ( :lol: oops :oops: ) sorry, your answers when debated are so compelling the thread ends ?

Oh I hate to be the one who NEEDS to tell you this.

When members such as myself stop debating with you - it's true they (me) have given up trying to have a rational conversation with someone like yourself who no matter what is said - is lost. :?

Good Day & Happy gaming.

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Makari

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#55 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"]to see how well you match up against other players :roll:. although in racers i only really play ranked matches because well people don't mess aroundleejohnson7
Fair enough but you are still more likely to get a better experience out of the single players AI unless you are with very skilled players or something.

I'd disagree about the experience with the SP AI, especially when you're talking about Forza online vs. GT single-player.. the AI in GT doesn't really react to you and follows what seems to be a programmed path. The only really bad part about racing online against people is that other humans are very, very unforgiving, and when you're up against someone that's just plain better than you, you're pretty much screwed. Especially in Forza, where the margin for error is pretty much razor-thin with a lot of high-horsepower cars or anything with over 200hp and narrow tires, and inopportune damage pretty much puts you out of the race. A lot of the griefing stuff you mentioned just plain doesn't exist in multiplayer, like the driving backwards - it's disabled by default every time you create a race, so someone has to specifically go into a menu to DISable it, and i think that might also disqualify the race from being ranked.
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bakalhau90

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#56 bakalhau90
Member since 2004 • 2264 Posts

Forza wins by default since there is no PS3 GT game.

-GhostMLD-

He didn't specifically say Forza 2, so I think he's just comparing the whole series. I was ready to declare /thread, but I don't think it can win by default.

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The_Game21x

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#57 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

lol... so you actually enjoy the game more having been told about the physics engine. And this one persons opinion is more important because?

Let's clarrify, the damage can take up two 0.5 seconds to calculate in forza, which looks silly and isn't even accurate at that, which doesn't vary between the severity of crashes.

That pun doesn't make sense in the slightest. You can keep making GT out to be ridge racer as well if you want but it just makes you sound like a fanboy when you quote all that information and telling me I have to do the same and then exaggerating about how GTs physics suck with silly jokes.

Cold hard facts don't really exist for subjective issues such as which game is a more realistic racer. That said you could quote that hyped up information or some golden balls journolist, but I could argue whether at the end of the day it made any difference because the physics in forza don't look right, the cars don't behave correctly, the AI makes the same mistakes over and over if you retry on certain races, they ignore your position and crash you off the road, the AI has became stuck in forza twice while I was playing (on the new york level to be precise).

Posting features of Forza; again I don't care about because 1. I played the game long enough to know about all of the features 2. most of them arent things we are even discussing, and it will just broaden this arguement even further. Another "feature" is how much they are supposed to have researched AI using learning AI and universities knowledge to help them, but again this experimental choice just made one or two flaws in the CPU controlled vehicles (in certain vehicles, on certain maps). At least GT's AI was consistantly mundane (if that is how you would discribe it, I would simply say that they had no preset driving **** different than proffessional, and stick to the driving line when not overtaking).

All that said, most none fanboys around here would agree that GT feels spot on with the cars in how the handle, particularly with the wheel.

leejohnson7

Ooooh Goodie.

*Ahem* Sorry tosound so childish there but I just love arguments like these in Forza vs GT threads. Now, let's get down to business.

Yes, the damage can take up to a half second to calculate, that much is true, but to say it doesn't vary based on the severity of the impact is laughable at best and smacks of someone who hasn't played the game long enough to know what they're talking about. Forza 2's damage system is at its best on a non cosmetic level. Granted, Forza 2's damage system doesn't look entirely realistic on the surface due to limitations imposed upon the development team by the world's automakers. Sim racing developers have to fight hard for the right to implement any type of damage system whatsoever and even then, there are restrictions. Cars cannot be flipped, and the chassis cannot be mangled or twisted.

Now I know GRID just recently allowed for serious chassis damage and rollover accidents, but they were able to skirt the bounds of what's acceptable by not using licensed cars. What they did was use heavily modified GT racing versions of licensed cars.

Turn 10 does not have that luxury. So, there are limits on the damage they can show.

But I'm getting away from my earlier point. Forza 2's damage system has more of an impact (pun not intended) on vehicle handling and performance. With the damage modeling set to Simulation, even small impacts can have a noticable impact on your car's performance and handling. Slamming into a barrier at 150 mph will leave your car completely totaled. No, don't believe the fanboys that say you can drive away from it. It's not true, it never was, and I'm appalled at the number of people who buy into it.

I hardly belive that a developer commenting on his game's physics engine is irrelevant or based on subjectivity, especially since we are talking about simulation racers, games that live and die based on their physics calculations. So when a guy says they spent three months perfecting tire physics, you'd better belive there was a good reason behind it.

And since you're saying Forza "doesn't feel right" and the cars "don't behave correctly", I suggest you take a look at this article featured in Popular Science in which they hire a professional race car driver to come out and test the game's realism by pitting his lap times in the game versus his times in real life on the same track using the same car. The times were virtually identical, give or take a few seconds.

Better yet, it might be interesting for you to know that Turn 10 is one of the sponsors of the Risi Competizone Ferrari which competed in the 12 hours of Sebring. Take a look at this article to see how various members of that team used Forza 2 to practice for the big race. Of course, it would be foolish to assume that Forza 2 was their primary source of practice time, but for them to even be able to use the game is a testament to its realism, otherwise, it would've been highly inadvisable, giving them a false sense of what to expect on the track.

Personally, given the dozens of hours I've invested in Forza 2, I've only rarely encountered these AI problems you mention. In fact, I've seen more problems in the much shorter time I've had with GT5 Prologue than I have with Forza, including things you mentioned such as the drivers making the same mistakes over and over. I started a race on the Suzuka track to see a black Lancer Evo X drive off the road and spin out going into a relatively easy turn. I retarted the race after making an error of my own only to see the exact same car make the exact same mistake in the exact same place. In GT, cars regulalry drive off the road during races and slam into me from behind, (much to my great annoyance when I'm penalized for it. GT5's AI is at best, on par with Forza's but it's sure as hell not better.

I personally own the Microsoft racing wheel for the Xbox 360 and based on my time with Forza and GT5: Prologue, Forza 2 is the more realistic simulator. It's damage model isn't perfect, but as far as I'm concerned, what Forza does have is far better than having nothing at all. I may invest in a wheel for GT5: Prologue, but that would be hard to justify given how much more I enjoy Forza 2. I'm a simulation racer fan and while GT5 is far from bad, it's not touching Forza 2 in my opinon.

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The_Game21x

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#58 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts
Holy crap I did not realize I'd written that much until I saw it posted. Damn, I guess I am passionate about this. :P
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masiisam

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#59 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts

I am a fan of both...But.... IMO FM2 has a deeper level of immersion then GT5P...Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)..GT5P felt hollow and meaningless....Which really sucks as I have been a GT fan from day 1..

I truly hope Poly can set up and bring a deeper level of gamplay and immersion to the GT series..

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#60 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45558 Posts

Holy crap I did not realize I'd written that much until I saw it posted. Damn, I guess I am passionate about this. :PThe_Game21x
This be a PGR thing but.......

Kudos lol for your patience and well done.:)

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Gamer556

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#61 Gamer556
Member since 2006 • 3846 Posts

I don't think anyone can make a valid argument for why Gran Turismo is the better game. Bar graphics, the Forza series (as well as others) has passed GT in just about every concievable way.

Oh, and Forza's livery editor is pretty much the most awesome thing ever put into a game.

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Makari

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#62 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
Holy crap I did not realize I'd written that much until I saw it posted. Damn, I guess I am passionate about this. :PThe_Game21x
And completely true. In line with what I said about the AI following a preset path at all costs - they'll ignore your car's presence when it comes to braking or passing (unlike Forza's), and if you see an AI car go off-track, he's pretty much guaranteed to do it at the same point on every lap to come. I had my butt saved in a lot of GT4's longer series races by things like the purple JGTC NSX (what was its name again?) consistently spinning off the track every lap, where otherwise he'd be able to beat me. It's still very fun to race against the AI in GT, but it's more like a PC strategy game's comp-stomp that we're all so fond of. Like playing Civ4 against Chieftain AI or something. edit:
IMO FM2 has a deeper level of immersion then GT5P...Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)masiisam
and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics. A year later or no, Polyphony are indisputably gods when it comes to that, and i'm pretty sure even GT4 - resolution aside - hangs with Forza 2 or still beats it when it comes to looking 'real.'
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BayCitytRollers

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#63 BayCitytRollers
Member since 2007 • 96 Posts

Forza2 is the closest the consoles have come to a Simbin game, at least until Simbin releases Race Pro this fall (360 exclusive btw) http://www.simbin.se/

Even Grid beats GT5!

PROOF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP1Q6sxNJoY

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masiisam

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#64 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]Holy crap I did not realize I'd written that much until I saw it posted. Damn, I guess I am passionate about this. :PMakari
And completely true. In line with what I said about the AI following a preset path at all costs - they'll ignore your car's presence when it comes to braking or passing (unlike Forza's), and if you see an AI car go off-track, he's pretty much guaranteed to do it at the same point on every lap to come. I had my butt saved in a lot of GT4's longer series races by things like the purple JGTC NSX (what was its name again?) consistently spinning off the track every lap, where otherwise he'd be able to beat me. It's still very fun to race against the AI in GT, but it's more like a PC strategy game's comp-stomp that we're all so fond of. Like playing Civ4 against Chieftain AI or something. edit:
IMO FM2 has a deeper level of immersion then GT5P...Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)masiisam
and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics. A year later or no, Polyphony are indisputably gods when it comes to that, and i'm pretty sure even GT4 - resolution aside - hangs with Forza 2 or still beats it when it comes to looking 'real.'

Yea really!!!...you think GT5 is the "peak" of sim grafx??..

So you think when I say "immersion" I automatically mean just grafx? Wow......by using that logic....then I guess GTR2 with it's horrible grafx is not on par with GT5p because it's over 2 years old...

..Think about that just for one sec...GT5P>GTR2 ...you really think that?

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dz8t2t

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#65 dz8t2t
Member since 2004 • 318 Posts

Forza2 is the closest the consoles have come to a Simbin game, at least until Simbin releases Race Pro this fall (360 exclusive btw) http://www.simbin.se/

Even Grid beats GT5!

PROOF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP1Q6sxNJoY

BayCitytRollers

LOL!!!! at :37 the car just ricochets off another car like a tennis ball! This is realism?

I'd be suprised if theres ever a console game that could beat GTR2 by Simbin. Thats the ultimate racing game.

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lowe0

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#66 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts

In almost every respect that can be measured logically GT is behind the times and the only thing proping up this game now is sentimentality and nostalgia.

Riverwolf007
Almost. GT does have one major advantage over Forza: the G25. MS' wheel sucks ass.
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ReaperV7

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#68 ReaperV7
Member since 2008 • 6756 Posts
gran tursimo...im hooked on prologue...
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masiisam

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#69 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

In almost every respect that can be measured logically GT is behind the times and the only thing proping up this game now is sentimentality and nostalgia.

lowe0

Almost. GT does have one major advantage over Forza: the G25. MS' wheel sucks ass.[/QUOTE]

How so?

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Makari

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#70 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]Holy crap I did not realize I'd written that much until I saw it posted. Damn, I guess I am passionate about this. :Pmasiisam

And completely true. In line with what I said about the AI following a preset path at all costs - they'll ignore your car's presence when it comes to braking or passing (unlike Forza's), and if you see an AI car go off-track, he's pretty much guaranteed to do it at the same point on every lap to come. I had my butt saved in a lot of GT4's longer series races by things like the purple JGTC NSX (what was its name again?) consistently spinning off the track every lap, where otherwise he'd be able to beat me. It's still very fun to race against the AI in GT, but it's more like a PC strategy game's comp-stomp that we're all so fond of. Like playing Civ4 against Chieftain AI or something. edit:
IMO FM2 has a deeper level of immersion then GT5P...Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)masiisam
and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics. A year later or no, Polyphony are indisputably gods when it comes to that, and i'm pretty sure even GT4 - resolution aside - hangs with Forza 2 or still beats it when it comes to looking 'real.'

Yea really!!!...you think GT5 is the "peak" of sim grafx??..

So you think when I say "immersion" I automatically mean just grafx? Wow......by using that logic....then I guess GTR2 with it's horrible grafx is not on par with GT5p because it's over 2 years old...

..Think about that just for one sec...GT5P>GTR2 ...you really think that?

In terms of graphics, unilaterally and with no reservations hell yes GT5P > GTR2, and i'll toss in a 'duh' for good measure. GT5 looks incredible in ways that are impossible to quantify with technical terms. The game LOOKS amazing even compared to PC racers, and there's no getting around that. It's just the actual driving that falls short to me. And yeah, the G25 is > every other consumer-level wheel in existence. 6-speed gated shifter and a clutch is pretty much automatic victory for plug and play solutions we can pick up at any old store, and the MS wheel in particular does feel cheap compared to logitech's nicer offerings.
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masiisam

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#71 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts
[QUOTE="masiisam"]

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]Holy crap I did not realize I'd written that much until I saw it posted. Damn, I guess I am passionate about this. :PMakari

And completely true. In line with what I said about the AI following a preset path at all costs - they'll ignore your car's presence when it comes to braking or passing (unlike Forza's), and if you see an AI car go off-track, he's pretty much guaranteed to do it at the same point on every lap to come. I had my butt saved in a lot of GT4's longer series races by things like the purple JGTC NSX (what was its name again?) consistently spinning off the track every lap, where otherwise he'd be able to beat me. It's still very fun to race against the AI in GT, but it's more like a PC strategy game's comp-stomp that we're all so fond of. Like playing Civ4 against Chieftain AI or something. edit:
IMO FM2 has a deeper level of immersion then GT5P...Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)masiisam
and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics. A year later or no, Polyphony are indisputably gods when it comes to that, and i'm pretty sure even GT4 - resolution aside - hangs with Forza 2 or still beats it when it comes to looking 'real.'

Yea really!!!...you think GT5 is the "peak" of sim grafx??..

So you think when I say "immersion" I automatically mean just grafx? Wow......by using that logic....then I guess GTR2 with it's horrible grafx is not on par with GT5p because it's over 2 years old...

..Think about that just for one sec...GT5P>GTR2 ...you really think that?

In terms of graphics, unilaterally and with no reservations hell yesGT5P > GTR2, and i'll toss in a 'duh' for good measure. GT5 looks incredible in ways that are impossible to quantify with technical terms. The game LOOKS amazing even compared to PC racers, and there's no getting around that. It's just the actual driving that falls short to me.And yeah, the G25 is > every other consumer-level wheel in existence. 6-speed gated shifter and a clutch is pretty much automatic victory for plug and play solutions we can pick up at any old store, and the MS wheel in particular does feel cheap compared to logitech's nicer offerings.

So I say again....So you think when I say "immersion" I automatically mean just grafx? you seem to skip that part...Clearly I am not taking about grafx...I am talking about "immersion"...do you know the difference between the two?

In regards to the underlined part I will just throw in "duh" for good measure...

Who said the G25 was not a great wheel?

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foxhound_fox

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#72 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
After playing the Forza 2 demo I'd lost all faith in the GT series.
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#73 Ironhorse001
Member since 2002 • 648 Posts
[QUOTE="masiisam"]

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]Holy crap I did not realize I'd written that much until I saw it posted. Damn, I guess I am passionate about this. :PMakari

And completely true. In line with what I said about the AI following a preset path at all costs - they'll ignore your car's presence when it comes to braking or passing (unlike Forza's), and if you see an AI car go off-track, he's pretty much guaranteed to do it at the same point on every lap to come. I had my butt saved in a lot of GT4's longer series races by things like the purple JGTC NSX (what was its name again?) consistently spinning off the track every lap, where otherwise he'd be able to beat me. It's still very fun to race against the AI in GT, but it's more like a PC strategy game's comp-stomp that we're all so fond of. Like playing Civ4 against Chieftain AI or something. edit:
IMO FM2 has a deeper level of immersion then GT5P...Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)masiisam
and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics. A year later or no, Polyphony are indisputably gods when it comes to that, and i'm pretty sure even GT4 - resolution aside - hangs with Forza 2 or still beats it when it comes to looking 'real.'

Yea really!!!...you think GT5 is the "peak" of sim grafx??..

So you think when I say "immersion" I automatically mean just grafx? Wow......by using that logic....then I guess GTR2 with it's horrible grafx is not on par with GT5p because it's over 2 years old...

..Think about that just for one sec...GT5P>GTR2 ...you really think that?

In terms of graphics, unilaterally and with no reservations hell yes GT5P > GTR2, and i'll toss in a 'duh' for good measure. GT5 looks incredible in ways that are impossible to quantify with technical terms. The game LOOKS amazing even compared to PC racers, and there's no getting around that. It's just the actual driving that falls short to me. And yeah, the G25 is > every other consumer-level wheel in existence. 6-speed gated shifter and a clutch is pretty much automatic victory for plug and play solutions we can pick up at any old store, and the MS wheel in particular does feel cheap compared to logitech's nicer offerings.

I agree. MS wheel does feel cheap compared to Logitechs wheel. Guess that's why MS chased them off.

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deactivated-58b6232955e4a

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#74 deactivated-58b6232955e4a
Member since 2006 • 15594 Posts
both suck
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l0ve

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#75 l0ve
Member since 2005 • 3178 Posts
GT 100% and for only one reason, the tracks in Forza SUCK!! GT has more variety and some muddy tracks too.
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masiisam

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#76 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts

GT 100% and for only one reason, the tracks in Forza SUCK!! GT has more variety and some muddy tracks too.l0ve

:|

Mugello

Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca

Nürburgring Nordschleife

Road Atlanta

Sebring International Raceway

Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit

Suzuka

Road America

Tsukuba Circuit

These are all real world tracks found in FM2...Not to big into racing I guess...Mehh.. to each there own

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Tobin09

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#77 Tobin09
Member since 2006 • 1579 Posts
I don't think it's fair to judge forza until you have played it with the wheel, with the controller it's dumbed down a bit and seems really arcadey, but as soon as I turn on the wheel it's a completely different game, I gotta admit, before I had the wheel for both I thought gt5p was better, but with a wheel forza is a better sim, even all the cars that I have driven hard in real life are close to the game.
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Nintendo_Man

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#78 Nintendo_Man
Member since 2003 • 19733 Posts
I have to go for the hardcore racer, that being Forza.
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Makari

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#79 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
[QUOTE="masiisam"]So I say again....So you think when I say "immersion" I automatically mean just grafx? you seem to skip that part...Clearly I am not taking about grafx...I am talking about "immersion"...do you know the difference between the two? In regards to the underlined part I will just throw in "duh" for good measure... Who said the G25 was not a great wheel?

Pretty simply, I referred the graphics specifically, when I said "and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics." I don't really know wtf else you're talking about, honestly. I mentioned GT's graphics are insane, and it doesn't matter whether they come out earlier or later, nobody else is going to beat them. Are you trying to disagree with that or not? Because that's all I said. The wheel comment wasn't so much that the MS wheel is bad, but the Logitech wheel is so, so much better that the MS one starts to suck in comparison. The G25 is a PC wheel intended for people with too much money, and the PS3 happens to be able to use it.
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mavven

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#80 mavven
Member since 2005 • 560 Posts
GT FTW!! I think you should compare Forza to Grid for the SIM they have or NFS PS por the modified cars part.
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The_Game21x

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#81 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

GT FTW!! I think you should compare Forza to Grid for the SIM they have or NFS PS por the modified cars part. mavven

Oh dear...

You haven't played Forza 2 or GRID have you?

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angelkimne

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#82 angelkimne
Member since 2006 • 14037 Posts

Well GT used to rule the racing market no doubt about it for me. But PD have really screwed up now.

The graphics anfd long lists usually end up being better/longer in GT, but in Forza i probably prefer the gameplay and co0ntrols, coupled with the fact that i can get 3 games ever 6 years, not 1 and 2 demo's means that i think T10 have taken the lead......

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cosmostein77

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#83 cosmostein77
Member since 2004 • 7043 Posts

Well,

Its really that quantity debate,

I loved the GT series, but the gap between GT4 and GT5 will see the release of three Forza games. With that said Forza has filled the need I have had for racing sims over the last few years and as such I think I have to lean in that direction.

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masiisam

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#84 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts

[QUOTE="masiisam"]So I say again....So you think when I say "immersion" I automatically mean just grafx? you seem to skip that part...Clearly I am not taking about grafx...I am talking about "immersion"...do you know the difference between the two? In regards to the underlined part I will just throw in "duh" for good measure... Who said the G25 was not a great wheel?Makari
Pretty simply, I referred the graphics specifically, when I said "and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics."I don't really know wtf else you're talking about, honestly. I mentioned GT's graphics are insane, and it doesn't matter whether they come out earlier or later, nobody else is going to beat them. Are you trying to disagree with that or not? Because that's all I said. The wheel comment wasn't so much that the MS wheel is bad, but the Logitech wheel is so, so much better that the MS one starts to suck in comparison. The G25 is a PC wheel intended for people with too much money, and the PS3 happens to be able to use it.

You quoted me???...:| ....and you replied with GT5 has better Grafx..I never said it did not...I said FM2 has a deeper level of "immersion" in which it has nothing to do with grafx...it has to do with all the other deeper levels of gamplay that I feel makes FM2 a more realistic game. It really is as simple as that..

If you quote somebody and challenge what they are saying... at least give some respect in regards to WTF they are taking about....

I am a fan of both...But.... IMO FM2 has a deeper level of immersion then GT5P...Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)..GT5P felt hollow and meaningless....Which really sucks as I have been a GT fan from day 1..

I truly hope Poly can set up and bring a deeper level of gamplay and immersion to the GT series..

masiisam

As for the MS wheel...my comment "How so" was directed to the poster stated the MS wheel "Sucks @@@"..I was trying to better understand why he thought the wheel sucks..

I have both the G25 and V2 MS wheel...Do I believe the G25 is a better wheel.......yea I do.....Do I believe the MS wheel "Sucks @@@" no I don't.....The MS wheel is 1/3 of the price of the G25 and I would not expect the materials to be the same as the G25.....but the MS wheel is just as accurate in both steering and pedals as the G25....

Let me put it this way...in no way will your lap times improve because you use a G25 VS a V2 MS wheel

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rt23

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#85 rt23
Member since 2006 • 68 Posts

http://youtube.com/watch?v=styYbRWQYP8

^^^^^

my answer

p.s. please linkify

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angelkimne

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#86 angelkimne
Member since 2006 • 14037 Posts

http://youtube.com/watch?v=styYbRWQYP8

p.s. please linkify

rt23
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balindos

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#87 balindos
Member since 2003 • 2424 Posts

Well GT used to rule the racing market no doubt about it for me. But PD have really screwed up now.

The graphics anfd long lists usually end up being better/longer in GT, but in Forza i probably prefer the gameplay and co0ntrols, coupled with the fact that i can get 3 games ever 6 years, not 1 and 2 demo's means that i think T10 have taken the lead......

angelkimne

I agree with you on that also. I love GT but the release date for GT5 is somewhere around either 2009 or 2010 as said by PD. I will have forgotten the GT series by then because Forza 3 will be out before then and my fix will be done. Also I wish I had the money to get the steering wheel and at least 2 more 360s and 2 HDTVS, so I could get that multiple screen action going in Forza. Everybody talks about GTs cockpit view but you are forgetting Forza supports up to 5 screens with 5 360s, yeah its pricey but if you are a hardcore race fan then that would be butter. I could get it but I dont think it is worth my money for it since I am not that hardcore and I have better things to spend my money on.

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Makari

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#88 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
[QUOTE="masiisam"]I said FM2 has a deeper level of "immersion" in which it has nothing to do with grafx...it has to do with all the other deeper levels of gamplay that I feel makes FM2 a more realistic game. It really is as simple as that.. If you quote somebody and challenge what they are saying... at least give some respect in regards to WTF they are taking about....

...and i referred to the graphics. what is the problem here? lol, learn to read what i'm saying before you go off, PLEASE. the point is, i wasn't even challenging what you were saying. "Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)" - this is something you wrote. you quoted it in your post right here. i quoted it in my post and nearly every other post made. i referred specifically to the graphics verbatim, and noted in EVERY SINGLE POST that i'm talking about the graphics alone.
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Grive

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#89 Grive
Member since 2006 • 2971 Posts

But I'm getting away from my earlier point. Forza 2's damage system has more of an impact (pun not intended) on vehicle handling and performance. With the damage modeling set to Simulation, even small impacts can have a noticable impact on your car's performance and handling. Slamming into a barrier at 150 mph will leave your car completely totaled. No, don't believe the fanboys that say you can drive away from it. It's not true, it never was, and I'm appalled at the number of people who buy into it.

The_Game21x

Liar. You can almost always drive away.

At the blazing speed of a couple tenths of a mile per hour, but at a speed. Sometimes in reverse.

... I'm just kidding. Excellent post. I was about to start on a rather long rant with basically the same message before I decided to read previous posts.

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Makari

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#90 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

But I'm getting away from my earlier point. Forza 2's damage system has more of an impact (pun not intended) on vehicle handling and performance. With the damage modeling set to Simulation, even small impacts can have a noticable impact on your car's performance and handling. Slamming into a barrier at 150 mph will leave your car completely totaled. No, don't believe the fanboys that say you can drive away from it. It's not true, it never was, and I'm appalled at the number of people who buy into it.

Grive

Liar. You can almost always drive away.

At the blazing speed of a couple tenths of a mile per hour, but at a speed. Sometimes in reverse.

... I'm just kidding. Excellent post. I was about to start on a rather long rant with basically the same message before I decided to read previous posts.

No no, you're right. If you get into a pretty nasty crash, you CAN drive away (really really really really slowly), as long as you don't have to go uphill. If you keep it in neutral, rev the engine up and drop the clutch, you might be able to hit 1-2mph downhill if and when the clutch/transmission works and the car makes it into 1st gear, which might take a few tries. If there's an uphill slope at all, you're screwed though. :D
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The_Game21x

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#91 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

But I'm getting away from my earlier point. Forza 2's damage system has more of an impact (pun not intended) on vehicle handling and performance. With the damage modeling set to Simulation, even small impacts can have a noticable impact on your car's performance and handling. Slamming into a barrier at 150 mph will leave your car completely totaled. No, don't believe the fanboys that say you can drive away from it. It's not true, it never was, and I'm appalled at the number of people who buy into it.

Grive

Liar. You can almost always drive away.

At the blazing speed of a couple tenths of a mile per hour, but at a speed. Sometimes in reverse.

... I'm just kidding. Excellent post. I was about to start on a rather long rant with basically the same message before I decided to read previous posts.

He he. I was hoping someone would catch that. :P

You got me though. You can indeed drive away from most severe crashes. Just...not very quickly.

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mtron32

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#92 mtron32
Member since 2006 • 4450 Posts

What!? No love for Grid?dreman999

yeah, I prefer Grid. The damage alone is reason to play it.

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marklarmer

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#93 marklarmer
Member since 2004 • 3883 Posts

[QUOTE="Grive"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

But I'm getting away from my earlier point. Forza 2's damage system has more of an impact (pun not intended) on vehicle handling and performance. With the damage modeling set to Simulation, even small impacts can have a noticable impact on your car's performance and handling. Slamming into a barrier at 150 mph will leave your car completely totaled. No, don't believe the fanboys that say you can drive away from it. It's not true, it never was, and I'm appalled at the number of people who buy into it.

The_Game21x

Liar. You can almost always drive away.

At the blazing speed of a couple tenths of a mile per hour, but at a speed. Sometimes in reverse.

... I'm just kidding. Excellent post. I was about to start on a rather long rant with basically the same message before I decided to read previous posts.

He he. I was hoping someone would catch that. :P

You got me though. You can indeed drive away from most severe crashes. Just...not very quickly.

...and usually depending on the angle of the road. Downhill FTW ;)

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SambaLele

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#94 SambaLele
Member since 2004 • 5552 Posts
has GT ever lost a poll in SW?
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masiisam

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#95 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts

[QUOTE="masiisam"]I said FM2 has a deeper level of "immersion" in which it has nothing to do with grafx...it has to do with all the other deeper levels of gamplay that I feel makes FM2 a more realistic game. It really is as simple as that.. If you quote somebody and challenge what they are saying... at least give some respect in regards to WTF they are taking about....Makari
...and i referred to the graphics. what is the problem here? lol, learn to read what i'm saying before you go off, PLEASE. the point is, i wasn't even challenging what you were saying. "Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...(well it better the game is a year older)" - this is something you wrote. you quoted it in your post right here. i quoted it in my post and nearly every other post made. i referred specifically to the graphics verbatim, and noted in EVERY SINGLE POST that i'm talking about the graphics alone.

Nice backtrack...Why did you even quote me in the first place??..

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Hoferman_PS3

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#96 Hoferman_PS3
Member since 2008 • 126 Posts
im a GT guy
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Makari

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#97 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
Nice backtrack...Why did you even quote me in the first place??..masiisam
Because I was AGREEING WITH YOU. Jesus. Do me a favor and find the backtrack. I'll make it simple for you, and cut each quote down to the bare minimum.
[QUOTE="masiisam"]Other than the absolute stunning grafx GT has over Fm2...Makari
and really, i don't think we'll ever see another racing sim catch up to what GT does with graphics.

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lowe0

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#98 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts

As for the MS wheel...my comment "How so" was directed to the poster stated the MS wheel "Sucks @@@"..I was trying to better understand why he thought the wheel sucks..

I have both the G25 and V2 MS wheel...Do I believe the G25 is a better wheel.......yea I do.....Do I believe the MS wheel "Sucks @@@" no I don't.....The MS wheel is 1/3 of the price of the G25 and I would not expect the materials to be the same as the G25.....but the MS wheel is just as accurate in both steering and pedals as the G25....

Let me put it this way...in no way will your lap times improve because you use a G25 VS a V2 MS wheel

masiisam

Lemme jump in here. You nailed part of it - the materials just aren't there, even compared to the Driving Force Pro, let alone a G25. Then there's the lack of 900 deg. rotation (900 is more than enough, but 270 doesn't really cover it), the lack of a clutch and shifter (though this needs a little extra force feedback in the pedal unit to be truly effective), the single-point clamping mechanism (the DFP's dual clamps or the G25's threaded receivers are much more solid), the crappy pedal base (no carpet spikes), the weak brake pedal (a DFP is much firmer, as is a G25), etc.

I was fine with the MS wheel until I tried Logitech's stuff. I can't go back. I won't go back.

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crunchUK

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#99 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="masiisam"]

As for the MS wheel...my comment "How so" was directed to the poster stated the MS wheel "Sucks @@@"..I was trying to better understand why he thought the wheel sucks..

I have both the G25 and V2 MS wheel...Do I believe the G25 is a better wheel.......yea I do.....Do I believe the MS wheel "Sucks @@@" no I don't.....The MS wheel is 1/3 of the price of the G25 and I would not expect the materials to be the same as the G25.....but the MS wheel is just as accurate in both steering and pedals as the G25....

Let me put it this way...in no way will your lap times improve because you use a G25 VS a V2 MS wheel

lowe0

Lemme jump in here. You nailed part of it - the materials just aren't there, even compared to the Driving Force Pro, let alone a G25. Then there's the lack of 900 deg. rotation (900 is more than enough, but 270 doesn't really cover it), the lack of a clutch and shifter (though this needs a little extra force feedback in the pedal unit to be truly effective), the single-point clamping mechanism (the DFP's dual clamps or the G25's threaded receivers are much more solid), the crappy pedal base (no carpet spikes), the weak brake pedal (a DFP is much firmer, as is a G25), etc.

I was fine with the MS wheel until I tried Logitech's stuff. I can't go back. I won't go back.

wow how do you turn more than 2 full circles for a fast corner :shock:

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lowe0

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#100 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts

wow how do you turn more than 2 full circles for a fast corner :shock:

crunchUK

More than 2 circles would be lock-to-lock. If you're going lock-to-lock on a single corner, you've done something very wrong. It's a full turn and a quarter from center to lock in each direction; that's the most you should be turning the wheel at any given time.

And if you're in a set of tight esses where you really do need that kind of steering, you'd better be going slow and moving your hands FAST. ;) That's why stability matters - my G25 secured to my Playseats Evolution via threaded receivers and bolts is WAY more stable than my old MS wheel on my old Playseats Classic. I don't have to worry about any wobble while turning.