GTA 4 and Assasins Creed have something very much in common....

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Javy03

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#1 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts

They were both very hyped Sandbox style games that spent more time building up the size that they forget about the gameplay.

Maybe I sound jaded but I am very dissappointed in the sandbox genre as a whole. I mean it sounds like a great idea in theory, you have a wide open area to explore and do anything. A living breathing city to interact with that reacts to your actions. But in execution it always mostly ends up dissappointing and repetitive.

I am a person that likes a fluid story in my single player games and I am a fan of cutscenes. However I hear alot of complaints that cutscenes slow down the gameplay and story and kind of takes the gamer out of the game. I can respect that opinion, but I have noticed that with sandbox games devs feel the need to fill it with fetch quests, assasination quests, and other trivial missions that just fluff up the gameplay time. Not to mention that they like to force you to drive, fly , web or ride from one side of the map to the other just to finish or start your next mission to once again fluff up the time. IMO when I have a freakin commute from one mission to the other that very much slows down the gameplay and for me and takes me out of the game. I know linear games can get annoying but heck, I am honestly preferring them over commute, fetch quest driven sandbox games.

So what do you guys think? What are your opinions on sandbox games and how they are being used?

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-Mad_Rhetoric-

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#2 -Mad_Rhetoric-
Member since 2008 • 1765 Posts
I enjoyed AC more than gta
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mmirza23

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#3 mmirza23
Member since 2004 • 3457 Posts
I enjoyed AC more than gta-Mad_Rhetoric-
I would have but the screen tearing and the framerate drops were killer, GTA4 framerate was fantastic
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Angry_PolarBear

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#4 Angry_PolarBear
Member since 2008 • 961 Posts
despite all the hate it gets, i loved AC. Cant wait for the next one.
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heretrix

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#5 heretrix
Member since 2004 • 37881 Posts

Not to mention that they like to force you to drive, fly , web or ride from one side of the map to the other just to finish or start your next mission to once again fluff up the time. IMO when I have a freakin commute from one mission to the other that very much slows down the gameplay and for me and takes me out of the game.

Javy03
Most sandbox games have ways to speed travel from one point to the next.
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deactivated-5a84f3399aa1c

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#6 deactivated-5a84f3399aa1c
Member since 2005 • 6504 Posts
They are very much alike in that I really like both of them.
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Jack-o-Thompson

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#7 Jack-o-Thompson
Member since 2007 • 2166 Posts
Speed travel helps, last time I had to do the work of getting to one area to the next was san andreas.
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Bread_or_Decide

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#8 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts
*stands up and applauds*
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joopyme

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#9 joopyme
Member since 2008 • 2598 Posts
[QUOTE="Javy03"]

Not to mention that they like to force you to drive, fly , web or ride from one side of the map to the other just to finish or start your next mission to once again fluff up the time. IMO when I have a freakin commute from one mission to the other that very much slows down the gameplay and for me and takes me out of the game.

heretrix

Most sandbox games have ways to speed travel from one point to the next.

Taxis for GTAIV and ZOMG how'd-i-get-here portals for Assassin's Creed ... :P

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Bread_or_Decide

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#10 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts
[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Javy03"]

Not to mention that they like to force you to drive, fly , web or ride from one side of the map to the other just to finish or start your next mission to once again fluff up the time. IMO when I have a freakin commute from one mission to the other that very much slows down the gameplay and for me and takes me out of the game.

Most sandbox games have ways to speed travel from one point to the next.

How much later in the game? Look at WOW. Takes alot of levels to finally get a beast you can ride on.
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BioShockOwnz

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#11 BioShockOwnz
Member since 2006 • 52901 Posts
GTA IV and Crackdown made all other sandbox games obsolete.
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Master-Thief-09

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#12 Master-Thief-09
Member since 2009 • 2534 Posts
AC has loading between areas, GTA IV is a true sandbox game. I also found AC boring and the free running got old fast, GTA IV was more enjoyable.
[QUOTE="-Mad_Rhetoric-"]I enjoyed AC more than gtammirza23
I would have but the screen tearing and the framerate drops were killer, GTA4 framerate was fantastic

I played AC on 360 and screen tearing/framerate wasn't that bad to me.
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Verge_6

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#13 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
The first Mercenaries is the absolute best sandbox game I have ever played. There are no boring parts like in the GTA games, action is abound, a plethora of combat vehicles, and, of course, airstrikes. Pure win.
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mmirza23

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#14 mmirza23
Member since 2004 • 3457 Posts
AC has loading between areas, GTA IV is a true sandbox game. I also found AC boring and the free running got old fast, GTA IV was more enjoyable. [QUOTE="mmirza23"][QUOTE="-Mad_Rhetoric-"]I enjoyed AC more than gtaMaster-Thief-09
I would have but the screen tearing and the framerate drops were killer, GTA4 framerate was fantastic

I played AC on 360 and screen tearing/framerate wasn't that bad to me.

Well compared to GTA4 it was bad, not sure how much worse the framerate was on the PS3 version than 360 though so maybe that's it. Oh well I enjoyed GTA4 more anyway.
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FirstDiscovery

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#15 FirstDiscovery
Member since 2008 • 5508 Posts
GTA IV and Crackdown made all other sandbox games obsolete.BioShockOwnz
Tell the kiddies that, the ones who cant appreciate a fine game But yeah, GTASA is like the greatest game ever, i dont think anything will come close
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WasntAvailable

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#16 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]GTA IV and Crackdown made all other sandbox games obsolete.FirstDiscovery
Tell the kiddies that, the ones who cant appreciate a fine game But yeah, GTASA is like the greatest game ever, i dont think anything will come close

Kiddies as in people who disagree with your opinion? How ironic. Also he said GTA4 > GTASA.

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tbone802

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#17 tbone802
Member since 2006 • 1195 Posts
I like both games alot, the thing they both have in common is that if you get bored doing missions you can just start wreaking havoc on the civilians and then run from the authorities.
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FirstDiscovery

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#18 FirstDiscovery
Member since 2008 • 5508 Posts

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"][QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]GTA IV and Crackdown made all other sandbox games obsolete.WasntAvailable

Tell the kiddies that, the ones who cant appreciate a fine game But yeah, GTASA is like the greatest game ever, i dont think anything will come close

Kiddies as in people who disagree with your opinion? How ironic. Also he said GTA4 > GTASA.

Sorry games are as good as they get, if you dont agree with the critics on a general level (Terrible, Bad, Good, Very Good, Superb) than youre too casual to appreciate the qualities or you own a Wii
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WasntAvailable

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#19 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts
[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]Tell the kiddies that, the ones who cant appreciate a fine game But yeah, GTASA is like the greatest game ever, i dont think anything will come closeFirstDiscovery

Kiddies as in people who disagree with your opinion? How ironic. Also he said GTA4 > GTASA.

Sorry games are as good as they get, if you dont agree with the critics on a general level (Terrible, Bad, Good, Very Good, Superb) than youre too casual to appreciate the qualities or you own a Wii

I didn't say I didn't enjoy GTA4 or AC, I did, but I'm not going to go about denouncing people who disagree with my own opinion. That's like how a very casual (In general, not limited to gamers.) person would aproach debate. Stick your fingers in your ears and start flaming everyone until people start to ignore you.

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carljohnson3456

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#20 carljohnson3456
Member since 2007 • 12489 Posts
GTA Vice City>GTA San Andreas>>GTAIV=GTA3 My opinion, although I love them all. I think the gameplay in IV was ok... the missions just werent very varied.
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station124

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#21 station124
Member since 2008 • 176 Posts
[QUOTE="Master-Thief-09"]AC has loading between areas, GTA IV is a true sandbox game. I also found AC boring and the free running got old fast, GTA IV was more enjoyable. [QUOTE="mmirza23"] I would have but the screen tearing and the framerate drops were killer, GTA4 framerate was fantasticmmirza23
I played AC on 360 and screen tearing/framerate wasn't that bad to me.

Well compared to GTA4 it was bad, not sure how much worse the framerate was on the PS3 version than 360 though so maybe that's it. Oh well I enjoyed GTA4 more anyway.

360 has more memory and more effcient set up. All MPs are better on 360.
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Javy03

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#22 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
I enjoyed AC more than gta-Mad_Rhetoric-
As did I but only because I could platform my way around the city.
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Javy03

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#23 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Javy03"]

Not to mention that they like to force you to drive, fly , web or ride from one side of the map to the other just to finish or start your next mission to once again fluff up the time. IMO when I have a freakin commute from one mission to the other that very much slows down the gameplay and for me and takes me out of the game.

Most sandbox games have ways to speed travel from one point to the next.

Even so, you still have to commute to the homebase, teleporter or whereever. And of course there is no way to avoid commuting from one mission to the other or in GTA's case sometimes you would commute during the mission.
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mo0ksi

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#24 mo0ksi
Member since 2007 • 12337 Posts
The first Mercenaries is the absolute best sandbox game I have ever played. There are no boring parts like in the GTA games, action is abound, a plethora of combat vehicles, and, of course, airstrikes. Pure win.Verge_6
I wouldn't say that it was better than the GTA games, but the first Mercs was not only excellent but very surprising. I can at the least firmly say that it has the best action in any sandbox game period.
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Javy03

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#25 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
Look I think the sandbox genre has so much potential but so far devs arent using it. I don't care if a taxi can get me from one place to another a little faster or if I can jump to a portal. I feel the sandbox genre is losing alot of creativiity. Its like they spend so much time building the environment and then when its there and ready they give you repetitive missions, or other pointless sidequests. Give me a more enjoyable way of getting around the city. Assasins Creed allowed me to platform which was fantastic but then when I got to my destinations I would do the same three things, pick pocket, listen in, assasinate. GTA was drive or ride from one place to the other and then when I get to the mission chase, fetch, or kill my objective around an area. It gets very old very fast. Are these worlds too big for devs to find relevant ways to make you interact with the entire map?
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blue_hazy_basic

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#26 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts
I'm a gamer and I like to game not watch cutscenes. I felt AC was VERY repetitive but I really enjoyed GTA, thumbs up rockstar.
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Javy03

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#27 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
I'm a gamer and I like to game not watch cutscenes. I felt AC was VERY repetitive but I really enjoyed GTA, thumbs up rockstar.blue_hazy_basic
OK, I understand that mentality, but I am a gamer and I want my gaming experience to be entertaining. I want my video game to give me a reason to care about my characters and events, not just mindlessly plow through it. Thats why when a game has a great story I don't mind cutscenes. I recognize that some events can be better expressed via cutscenes. I mean you say you like to game but do you consider sitting in Nikko's apartment watching commercials gaming, or driving from one mission to the other flipping through the channels relevant gaming. And what about when you finally get there and they send you on an errand to the other side of the city. I can have the same mentality as you and say, "I'm a gamer I like to game not commute like I do every morning to work." Gaming to me is entertainment, and that can be achieved in many ways. If I want a relevant story I like cutscenes, they are a reward to me after accomplishing something worthwhile, if I want to mindlessly hack and slash or shoot my enemies I am fine with no cutscenes. However Sandbox games are falling into a predicatable amount of repetition in their gameplay.
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blue_hazy_basic

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#28 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]I'm a gamer and I like to game not watch cutscenes. I felt AC was VERY repetitive but I really enjoyed GTA, thumbs up rockstar.Javy03
OK, I understand that mentality, but I am a gamer and I want my gaming experience to be entertaining. I want my video game to give me a reason to care about my characters and events, not just mindlessly plow through it. Thats why when a game has a great story I don't mind cutscenes. I recognize that some events can be better expressed via cutscenes. I mean you say you like to game but do you consider sitting in Nikko's apartment watching commercials gaming, or driving from one mission to the other flipping through the channels relevant gaming. And what about when you finally get there and they send you on an errand to the other side of the city. I can have the same mentality as you and say, "I'm a gamer I like to game not commute like I do every morning to work." Gaming to me is entertainment, and that can be achieved in many ways. If I want a relevant story I like cutscenes, they are a reward to me after accomplishing something worthwhile, if I want to mindlessly hack and slash or shoot my enemies I am fine with no cutscenes. However Sandbox games are falling into a predicatable amount of repetition in their gameplay.

A good game should let you see characters develop without the need for cutscenes (have you ever played Baldurs Gate 2?!?! or Planescape? - wow) but I digress. Yes I consider driving in GTA gaming. I really enjoy speeding across the city and you can go anywhere in the city in 3 or 4 minutes absolute tops if you know where you're going. I commute every day, but not at 100 mph with cops chasing me! As for character development you didn't think that GTA did a good job with that? I felt attached, annoyed by and even hated certain people (**** you Brucie).
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Javy03

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#29 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
A good game should let you see characters develop without the need for cutscenes (have you ever played Baldurs Gate 2?!?! or Planescape? - wow) but I digress. Yes I consider driving in GTA gaming. I really enjoy speeding across the city and you can go anywhere in the city in 3 or 4 minutes absolute tops if you know where you're going. I commute every day, but not at 100 mph with cops chasing me! As for character development you didn't think that GTA did a good job with that? I felt attached, annoyed by and even hated certain people (**** you Brucie).blue_hazy_basic
Yes I totally agree with the Brucie part. Man was he a nag. But I never said that characters can't be develped without the aid of cutscenes, I just said that some events can be better expressed via a cutscene. Its another way of telling the story rather then hasseling everyone in a villiage for all the pieces like in some RPGs. I am a visual person and love it when a well crafted cutscene allows for a deeper telling of the story with visual images rather then reading it in text or having someone tell you over the radio. I just think me and you differ on GTA. Going fast with no real consequences wasnt really that exciting to me after the first 3 hours and being sent around the city got old for me. I don't honestly believe that the characters in GTA were very well developed and in reality your releationship with them was irrelevant and didnt really impact the story too signifiacantly, (I mean some of the smaller characters like the guy that wanted you to kill his friend or the chick you worked for who introduced you to that guy). In fact I got frustrated that those so called decisions didnt really matter story wise. Choosing to kill one person didnt significantly impact the game at all, it just allowed that person to hastle me on the phone about hanging out.
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blue_hazy_basic

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#30 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] A good game should let you see characters develop without the need for cutscenes (have you ever played Baldurs Gate 2?!?! or Planescape? - wow) but I digress. Yes I consider driving in GTA gaming. I really enjoy speeding across the city and you can go anywhere in the city in 3 or 4 minutes absolute tops if you know where you're going. I commute every day, but not at 100 mph with cops chasing me! As for character development you didn't think that GTA did a good job with that? I felt attached, annoyed by and even hated certain people (**** you Brucie).Javy03
Yes I totally agree with the Brucie part. Man was he a nag. But I never said that characters can't be develped without the aid of cutscenes, I just said that some events can be better expressed via a cutscene. Its another way of telling the story rather then hasseling everyone in a villiage for all the pieces like in some RPGs. I am a visual person and love it when a well crafted cutscene allows for a deeper telling of the story with visual images rather then reading it in text or having someone tell you over the radio. I just think me and you differ on GTA. Going fast with no real consequences wasnt really that exciting to me after the first 3 hours and being sent around the city got old for me. I don't honestly believe that the characters in GTA were very well developed and in reality your releationship with them was irrelevant and didnt really impact the story too signifiacantly, (I mean some of the smaller characters like the guy that wanted you to kill his friend or the chick you worked for who introduced you to that guy). In fact I got frustrated that those so called decisions didnt really matter story wise. Choosing to kill one person didnt significantly impact the game at all, it just allowed that person to hastle me on the phone about hanging out.

I think alot of it is simply down to personal tastes as you say. Maybe I don't have the patience to sit through some cutscenes (I absolutely HATED the ones in Halo for example but in GTA they really didn't bother me). And yea there were some side characters not flushed out at all as they were pretty much thrown in to add an achievement and comedy for the most part.
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-DrRobotnik-

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#31 -DrRobotnik-
Member since 2008 • 5463 Posts
Yeah, they do have something in common. They are both games i loved, yet get hated on by so many people despite getting good reviews pretty much everywhere. If it is just all personal disappointment, then you guys can blame no-one but yourselves.
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HoldThePhone

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#32 HoldThePhone
Member since 2007 • 3364 Posts
I heard GTA was an awesome game and that AC was terrible. I've only played AC and it is definitely a boring game. Ima guess that people just like hating on big name games.
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LOXO7

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#33 LOXO7
Member since 2008 • 5595 Posts
Sandbox games is my game of choice. Exploring is most of the game for me. Missions/story all a bonus. I liked the special killing animations for AC and the world. GTAIV was very poor than the rest of the GTA's except the graphics. I dont race through to finish games and my opinions are very different than yours.