GTA IV: Killing The Xbox 360, Boosting The PlayStation 3

[QUOTE="bforrester"]

Well, there's one reason to laugh...as the person that chalked the TS as, "cowws these days". What makes me laugh is what passes for reasonable debate on Gamespot. "Oh, the PS3 won't sell because it's expensive." "Oh, the PS3 has no good exclusives." "Oh, this system will do this for this reason." None of it really makes any sense. The reason? Because we've got a bunch of kids on Gamespot saying things like it's truth. Kids with no notion of how the business or marketing world works. You think the PS3 is expensive when people are buying up ever 400 and $500 iPhone they can find? And $500 is too expensive for a video game / multi media center? Give me a freakin' break! These folks on here have no concept of how important Brand loyalty and trust is in the consumer world.

As a casual gamer (you know, the bulk of the video gamer population), here is how I see this generation of gaming. Keep in mind, out of boredom at work, I spend time on gaming sites to kill time and to entertain. I also enjoy video games, so it gives me a way to keep up on new games, etc.

Xbox 360: I did my research online before buying a system, much like any parent will when researching a purchase for their kids. Okay, the reasonably intelligent parents, at least. What's the first thing you find out when you put Xbox 360 into ANY search engine? The hardware is crap. Casual gamers don't know about the Falcon chip. They aren't going to put THAT much research into it. They're going to see 'Hardware Failure' on Google (or Amazon too...Xbox has lousy reviews there)and they'll stop there. I'm not buying something for myself, or my kids, that is likely to break down in a relatively short period of time. Why do you guys think Toyota overtook Ford and GM in North American auto sales? Let's not forget to mention that most adults like myself, working in the real world, have plenty of experience with Microsoft products. Let's just say that doesn't often paint them in the most flattering light.

Wii: Man, I can't find one of these things ANYWHERE. If I find one, I'm scooping it up because as rare as they are, there must be something to it!

PS3: Well, it's pretty expensive, but man does it have some neat bells and whistles. I've got an HD-TV...this blu-ray stuff sounds alright. I've already / my kid already has a PS2, so my/their old games will still play, I/they'll get the new version of the games they already love to play, the conroller is the same...everyone leaves happy. Yeah, we might just wait until the price is lower. The kid's / my PS2 can last a little longer.

Is it any wonder PS2 outsells Xbox 360 and PS3? Yeah, it's cheaper. Yeah, it's got one heck of an established library. It's the gem of the video game console world, quite frankly. When those folks (us casuals) get ready to make the leap to next gen (and when the price is right), the PS3 is going to fly off the shelves.

You sheltered Hardcore gamers only see things through the narrow world perspective of the Hardcore gamer. You guys live in this Gamespot vaccuum, talking to other Hardcores. You guys see gaming through this weird prism that most of us do not see. We don't care about Bioshock, Mass Effect, Lair, Heavenly Sword, or any of those other arcane games that the Hardcores scoop up. Until I started researching Video games at work, I had never heard of Metal Gear Solid or God of War, or Elder Scrolls, or any of the other hyped big name games. My point is, you guys have NO concept of what really sells systems. Hell, most of you have never attended a college course (let alone hold a degree), so you have very little concept of business and marketing practices that work in the real world. You have very little concept of consumer trends. Basically what I'm saying is that I have very little respect for anything that is said on these forums because I don't believe many of you have the requisite real-world knowledge to back up any of your half-cocked assertions.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

maabus99

For someone who "brags" about having better business sense then these so called kids, you should did yourself a favor by comparing the iPhone to a PS3 for basic economic spending. In fact you couldn't be more wrong sir, there is a huge, fundamental difference between the two items set price versus value.

And I can answer it in one word: competition. If you can't figure it out, well you shouldn't have posted.

Now that your arrogant yet flawed statement has been debunked, please continue as I doubt you will apologize to everyone here.

That is all, please resume folks.

For someone that 'debunked' my thesis, you sure included very little information that contradicts anything in my post. Please, educate me as to the fundamental differences between the iPhone / PS3 analogy. Care to put a little bit of effort into that, or would you like to just make a statement, claim it as fact, and produce nothing whatsoever in the means of a supporting argument?

Dude, you basically just summarized my post (about brand recognition), all the while DISAGREEING with me. Let me know which institution of higher learning you attended so that I don't mistakingly admit any of my future children to said institiution. I didn't say I understood the gaming industry more so than a hardcore gamer....um, reading comprehension must not have been important at your apparent community college...., only that I had a better understanding of business and marketing that your run-of-the-mill, Gamespot poster. Did you even bother reading the entire contents of my post?

[QUOTE="DA_B0MB"][QUOTE="hobbit93"][QUOTE="GarchomPro"]Remember i didnt write this.

bforrester

There's no reason to laugh. You are justshowing you're the bigger fanboy here. Besides, he didn't even write that, it came from somewhere else.

Well, there's one reason to laugh...as the person that chalked the TS as, "cowws these days". What makes me laugh is what passes for reasonable debate on Gamespot. "Oh, the PS3 won't sell because it's expensive." "Oh, the PS3 has no good exclusives." "Oh, this system will do this for this reason." None of it really makes any sense. The reason? Because we've got a bunch of kids on Gamespot saying things like it's truth. Kids with no notion of how the business or marketing world works. You think the PS3 is expensive when people are buying up ever 400 and $500 iPhone they can find? And $500 is too expensive for a video game / multi media center? Give me a freakin' break! These folks on here have no concept of how important Brand loyalty and trust is in the consumer world.

As a casual gamer (you know, the bulk of the video gamer population), here is how I see this generation of gaming. Keep in mind, out of boredom at work, I spend time on gaming sites to kill time and to entertain. I also enjoy video games, so it gives me a way to keep up on new games, etc.

Xbox 360: I did my research online before buying a system, much like any parent will when researching a purchase for their kids. Okay, the reasonably intelligent parents, at least. What's the first thing you find out when you put Xbox 360 into ANY search engine? The hardware is crap. Casual gamers don't know about the Falcon chip. They aren't going to put THAT much research into it. They're going to see 'Hardware Failure' on Google (or Amazon too...Xbox has lousy reviews there)and they'll stop there. I'm not buying something for myself, or my kids, that is likely to break down in a relatively short period of time. Why do you guys think Toyota overtook Ford and GM in North American auto sales? Let's not forget to mention that most adults like myself, working in the real world, have plenty of experience with Microsoft products. Let's just say that doesn't often paint them in the most flattering light.

Wii: Man, I can't find one of these things ANYWHERE. If I find one, I'm scooping it up because as rare as they are, there must be something to it!

PS3: Well, it's pretty expensive, but man does it have some neat bells and whistles. I've got an HD-TV...this blu-ray stuff sounds alright. I've already / my kid already has a PS2, so my/their old games will still play, I/they'll get the new version of the games they already love to play, the conroller is the same...everyone leaves happy. Yeah, we might just wait until the price is lower. The kid's / my PS2 can last a little longer.

Is it any wonder PS2 outsells Xbox 360 and PS3? Yeah, it's cheaper. Yeah, it's got one heck of an established library. It's the gem of the video game console world, quite frankly. When those folks (us casuals) get ready to make the leap to next gen (and when the price is right), the PS3 is going to fly off the shelves.

You sheltered Hardcore gamers only see things through the narrow world perspective of the Hardcore gamer. You guys live in this Gamespot vaccuum, talking to other Hardcores. You guys see gaming through this weird prism that most of us do not see. We don't care about Bioshock, Mass Effect, Lair, Heavenly Sword, or any of those other arcane games that the Hardcores scoop up. Until I started researching Video games at work, I had never heard of Metal Gear Solid or God of War, or Elder Scrolls, or any of the other hyped big name games. My point is, you guys have NO concept of what really sells systems. Hell, most of you have never attended a college course (let alone hold a degree), so you have very little concept of business and marketing practices that work in the real world. You have very little concept of consumer trends. Basically what I'm saying is that I have very little respect for anything that is said on these forums because I don't believe many of you have the requisite real-world knowledge to back up any of your half-cocked assertions.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

1) most people buy a console for games

2) price is a huge issue, why is the Wii selling so damned well, while the PS3 gets outsold most months by the GBA?

3) If brand loyalty is so important where's theSega console? Why did the GC do so badly last gen?

4) Last I heard the iPhone was underperforming in sales too, maybe its not such a bad comparison?

5) every hard gamer started out as a casual. Casuals might not buy as many games but word gets around for the great ones - how do you think a new IP like Gears sells so many copies?

6) something about half cocked assertions ....

[QUOTE="maabus99"]

[QUOTE="bforrester"]

Well, there's one reason to laugh...as the person that chalked the TS as, "cowws these days". What makes me laugh is what passes for reasonable debate on Gamespot. "Oh, the PS3 won't sell because it's expensive." "Oh, the PS3 has no good exclusives." "Oh, this system will do this for this reason." None of it really makes any sense. The reason? Because we've got a bunch of kids on Gamespot saying things like it's truth. Kids with no notion of how the business or marketing world works. You think the PS3 is expensive when people are buying up ever 400 and $500 iPhone they can find? And $500 is too expensive for a video game / multi media center? Give me a freakin' break! These folks on here have no concept of how important Brand loyalty and trust is in the consumer world.

As a casual gamer (you know, the bulk of the video gamer population), here is how I see this generation of gaming. Keep in mind, out of boredom at work, I spend time on gaming sites to kill time and to entertain. I also enjoy video games, so it gives me a way to keep up on new games, etc.

Xbox 360: I did my research online before buying a system, much like any parent will when researching a purchase for their kids. Okay, the reasonably intelligent parents, at least. What's the first thing you find out when you put Xbox 360 into ANY search engine? The hardware is crap. Casual gamers don't know about the Falcon chip. They aren't going to put THAT much research into it. They're going to see 'Hardware Failure' on Google (or Amazon too...Xbox has lousy reviews there)and they'll stop there. I'm not buying something for myself, or my kids, that is likely to break down in a relatively short period of time. Why do you guys think Toyota overtook Ford and GM in North American auto sales? Let's not forget to mention that most adults like myself, working in the real world, have plenty of experience with Microsoft products. Let's just say that doesn't often paint them in the most flattering light.

Wii: Man, I can't find one of these things ANYWHERE. If I find one, I'm scooping it up because as rare as they are, there must be something to it!

PS3: Well, it's pretty expensive, but man does it have some neat bells and whistles. I've got an HD-TV...this blu-ray stuff sounds alright. I've already / my kid already has a PS2, so my/their old games will still play, I/they'll get the new version of the games they already love to play, the conroller is the same...everyone leaves happy. Yeah, we might just wait until the price is lower. The kid's / my PS2 can last a little longer.

Is it any wonder PS2 outsells Xbox 360 and PS3? Yeah, it's cheaper. Yeah, it's got one heck of an established library. It's the gem of the video game console world, quite frankly. When those folks (us casuals) get ready to make the leap to next gen (and when the price is right), the PS3 is going to fly off the shelves.

You sheltered Hardcore gamers only see things through the narrow world perspective of the Hardcore gamer. You guys live in this Gamespot vaccuum, talking to other Hardcores. You guys see gaming through this weird prism that most of us do not see. We don't care about Bioshock, Mass Effect, Lair, Heavenly Sword, or any of those other arcane games that the Hardcores scoop up. Until I started researching Video games at work, I had never heard of Metal Gear Solid or God of War, or Elder Scrolls, or any of the other hyped big name games. My point is, you guys have NO concept of what really sells systems. Hell, most of you have never attended a college course (let alone hold a degree), so you have very little concept of business and marketing practices that work in the real world. You have very little concept of consumer trends. Basically what I'm saying is that I have very little respect for anything that is said on these forums because I don't believe many of you have the requisite real-world knowledge to back up any of your half-cocked assertions.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

bforrester

For someone who "brags" about having better business sense then these so called kids, you should did yourself a favor by comparing the iPhone to a PS3 for basic economic spending. In fact you couldn't be more wrong sir, there is a huge, fundamental difference between the two items set price versus value.

And I can answer it in one word: competition. If you can't figure it out, well you shouldn't have posted.

Now that your arrogant yet flawed statement has been debunked, please continue as I doubt you will apologize to everyone here.

That is all, please resume folks.

For someone that 'debunked' my thesis, you sure included very little information that contradicts anything in my post. Please, educate me as to the fundamental differences between the iPhone / PS3 analogy. Care to put a little bit of effort into that, or would you like to just make a statement, claim it as fact, and produce nothing whatsoever in the means of a supporting argument?

[QUOTE="myke2010"] WOW, I guess that college diploma I got must be my imagination. You make a lot of assumptions about hardcore games, most of which are untrue. I have a lot of hardcore gaming friends, the vast majority have college degrees in many varying fields. These include, but aren't limited to, education, computer engineering, counter-terrorism, international relations and telecommunications. I am a parent and am friends with many parents. The majority of non-gaming parents don't care much about what systems can and can't do. They buy a product based on brand recogniction and price. The two most popular picks for them lately have been the Wii and PS2. Don't assume you are the only one here with any credible knowledge of the gaming industry and what makes it really work. If you have as little experience with gaming as you claim then how can you reaslitically claim to understand the field better then a hardcore gamer. Finally, if you are arguing on the SW forums you aren't a casual gamer, you are now hardcore. Casual gamers don't care enough to argue about this nonsense.

Dude, you basically just summarized my post (about brand recognition), all the while DISAGREEING with me. Let me know which institution of higher learning you attended so that I don't mistakingly admit any of my future children to said institiution. I didn't say I understood the gaming industry more so than a hardcore gamer....um, reading comprehension must not have been important at your apparent community college...., only that I had a better understanding of business and marketing that your run-of-the-mill, Gamespot poster. Did you even bother reading the entire contents of my post?

[QUOTE="rdo"]

remember you didn't write it? why? you posted it. you are aware that in one part it claims the 360 lost the system seller, then later says that ms released all it's first party too early, implying that the 360 had alot more than gta4. the author, and poster of the drivil might as well printed in bold "i even call my self a liar".

bioshock is comming out soon, very soon. then halo3. assins creed and many more.

what does the ps3 have? well they still have the waiting game. when gta4 does eventually release half the game will be on the ps3, the full game will be on the 360.

that "there is no such thing as a console exclusive" sig shows fanboy desperation. it is ms exclusive. if the game requires windows it is still an ms exclusive. the ps3 has flop. accept it and move on with your life.

Stall0wn3d

It doesn't matter.

GTAIV will have more customers from both consoles so its win for them and the customers.Especially the lemming that like GTA becuase the downloadable content is going to be like 2 extra mini games , about 20 hrs each.

So I don't know why it would be an advantage for Sony and disadvantage for MS, I say fanboyism got the best of you.

[QUOTE="kevy619"]another rant, last time i checked the xbox 360 has a better lineup this year than the ps3.GarchomPro

Simply a matter of opinion. Personally, I'll take Halo 3, Bioshock, and Mass Effect over anything the PS3 offers this year.

For someone that 'debunked' my thesis, you sure included very little information that contradicts anything in my post. Please, educate me as to the fundamental differences between the iPhone / PS3 analogy. Care to put a little bit of effort into that, or would you like to just make a statement, claim it as fact, and produce nothing whatsoever in the means of a supporting argument?

bforrester

*Sigh*

Ok, I will make this easy. How many phones actually compete directly with the iPhone? Zero.

How many products compete with the PS3 for consumers dollars?? Minimum 2(360, Wii), arguably 4 (360, Wii, PC, PS2).

If you have zero competition, the price is there for your choosing.How they choose is a bunch of analysts who predict# of sales for each price target, and find the largest possible profit.I guarantee that the iPhone does not cost near 600 dollars to produce, unlike the PS3, and they are milking phone fanatics. However, as someone else posted, it is still under-performing at that price level, with zero competition. I'll hold a beer bet that within a fiscal year, a new iPhone will emerge at 1/2 to 2/3 the cost, and most likely explode as it hits the magic spot. They have to if they want to succeed before other phone manufacturers make clones (competition).

Now if you have competition, what happens? Competitive pricing.While Apple makes a full market share of the folks looking at an iPhone-esque phone currently, Sony does not. In fact they probably (estimating) make up10%-20% of all hardware andmore sosoftware sales of the "4 systems" I mentioned. I include software sales as a comparisononly because a PC makes hardware comparisons extremely difficult to figure out in a gamingdemographic.

So before you keep on bashing folks about their education, you may want to stop stereotyping folks in this forum before you find out that many have education equivalent or even higher then your own. I will also take a beer bet on the latter being true due to the overall maturity of your post, but this is the Internet, so you will win in your mind every time;)

Well, there's one reason to laugh...as the person that chalked the TS as, "cowws these days". What makes me laugh is what passes for reasonable debate on Gamespot. "Oh, the PS3 won't sell because it's expensive." "Oh, the PS3 has no good exclusives." "Oh, this system will do this for this reason." None of it really makes any sense. The reason? Because we've got a bunch of kids on Gamespot saying things like it's truth. Kids with no notion of how the business or marketing world works. You think the PS3 is expensive when people are buying up ever 400 and $500 iPhone they can find? And $500 is too expensive for a video game / multi media center? Give me a freakin' break! These folks on here have no concept of how important Brand loyalty and trust is in the consumer world.

As a casual gamer (you know, the bulk of the video gamer population), here is how I see this generation of gaming. Keep in mind, out of boredom at work, I spend time on gaming sites to kill time and to entertain. I also enjoy video games, so it gives me a way to keep up on new games, etc.

Xbox 360: I did my research online before buying a system, much like any parent will when researching a purchase for their kids. Okay, the reasonably intelligent parents, at least. What's the first thing you find out when you put Xbox 360 into ANY search engine? The hardware is crap. Casual gamers don't know about the Falcon chip. They aren't going to put THAT much research into it. They're going to see 'Hardware Failure' on Google (or Amazon too...Xbox has lousy reviews there)and they'll stop there. I'm not buying something for myself, or my kids, that is likely to break down in a relatively short period of time. Why do you guys think Toyota overtook Ford and GM in North American auto sales? Let's not forget to mention that most adults like myself, working in the real world, have plenty of experience with Microsoft products. Let's just say that doesn't often paint them in the most flattering light.

Wii: Man, I can't find one of these things ANYWHERE. If I find one, I'm scooping it up because as rare as they are, there must be something to it!

PS3: Well, it's pretty expensive, but man does it have some neat bells and whistles. I've got an HD-TV...this blu-ray stuff sounds alright. I've already / my kid already has a PS2, so my/their old games will still play, I/they'll get the new version of the games they already love to play, the conroller is the same...everyone leaves happy. Yeah, we might just wait until the price is lower. The kid's / my PS2 can last a little longer.

Is it any wonder PS2 outsells Xbox 360 and PS3? Yeah, it's cheaper. Yeah, it's got one heck of an established library. It's the gem of the video game console world, quite frankly. When those folks (us casuals) get ready to make the leap to next gen (and when the price is right), the PS3 is going to fly off the shelves.

You sheltered Hardcore gamers only see things through the narrow world perspective of the Hardcore gamer. You guys live in this Gamespot vaccuum, talking to other Hardcores. You guys see gaming through this weird prism that most of us do not see. We don't care about Bioshock, Mass Effect, Lair, Heavenly Sword, or any of those other arcane games that the Hardcores scoop up. Until I started researching Video games at work, I had never heard of Metal Gear Solid or God of War, or Elder Scrolls, or any of the other hyped big name games. My point is, you guys have NO concept of what really sells systems. Hell, most of you have never attended a college course (let alone hold a degree), so you have very little concept of business and marketing practices that work in the real world. You have very little concept of consumer trends. Basically what I'm saying is that I have very little respect for anything that is said on these forums because I don't believe many of you have the requisite real-world knowledge to back up any of your half-cocked assertions.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

bforrester

Well first of all, a lot of casual gamers want to play their games, and Microsoft has done a good job of keeping all of these games on their systems. The average consumer could get turned off by price about as much as hardware failures. And if the buyer would search on the consoles hardware failures (on most search engines the first thing you see is not actually hardware failures), they would also see that there is also a 3 year warranty. Toyota does have some of the best sales in the nation due to reliability, but you aren't dropping $15,000 on a gaming console.

Now what you fail to mention is how much marketing is put into the 360. The iPod has dominated the market, mostly because of other companies inability to dominate media as they did; I don't think I've ever seen commercials for any other mp3 player. Most people bought an iPod because it was the only mp3 player they've heard of. That, and their friends had it. The same goes for the last generation of consoles. The ps2 was on the market first (minus the dreamcast, which no one bothered to buy), a lot bought it and recommended it to friends. Last generation, (as I was a casual gamer then) I bought a ps2 due to all of my friends buying it. Now, the XBOX360 comes out with some good marketing, and it sold decently. These casual gamers buy it as they see most of their beloved games were on it, with the next gen experience first. Most of my friends (casual and hardcore alike) bought a 360. When asked about the ps3, most said "I already have the 360", or "It's too expensive". I know this can't reflect on the rest of the world, but it can make a decent genralization.

I do agree with you on the fact that hardcore games don't sell consoles. But this is system wars where 99% of the community are hardcore gamers. I may not have experience in college, but I don't appreciate acting superior to those without college diplomas.

EDIT: I think this was the first serious post I've made on system wars.

If I were MS I would seriously consider forcing Rockstar to release the 360 version on the 10/16/07 date. By all accounts, it's the PS3 version of the game that's holding things up. Seeing as how all of the screens and demos have been shown on the 360 version it's pretty safe to say that the 360 version is near completion.

Why should MS and 360 owners have to suffer because of the awesomeness of teh cell? While there will be plenty of game for 360 owners to play, I think that the author of this article makes a few good points namely that what's to stop Rockstar from releasing downloadable content that was exclusive to the 360 before?