Hailed games, Terrible Legacies

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texasgoldrush

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#51 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

@killered3 said:

@texasgoldrush: I'm not so sure if I'd say Final Fantasy 6's story works better than 7. FF7 wasn't exactly hard to follow or anything. It was just poorly written where 6 just didn't bother trying to complicate things. In general, 8, 9 and 10 had better stories so I'd hardly consider them a flaw. The lack of inspiration for creativity is why Final Fantasy went down the drain along with Square Enix's obsession to overcomplicate the level up system.

In the RPG genre, not holding the player's hand is where the player loses focus and the story loses direction. Especially for rookie RPG players like me in the PS1 days. If the story doesn't progress fast enough, you're going to lose interest. Unless you're an RPG veteran, the elements of the gameplay aren't enough to keep you wanting to play if you don't feel like there's a point to do it. You gotta think for the rookies too, make it user-friendly so no one will feel uncomfortable playing it. That's where Final Fantasy 7 got me. Regardless of the weak narrative, the story tries its damnedest to suck you in and keep your attention. Things exploded, girls were kidnapped, there was always something to see. It was thanks to that, that I fell in love with RPG games in general. First love the story then you'll care about the elements to strengthen your party members. With 6, I just had a hard time wanting to continue because I kept losing track of where to go and I was completely oblivious to RPG games back then. It wasn't until recently that I was able to really play 6 because I now understand how RPG games work whereas before, I didn't even know how to switch equipment.

Final Fantasy 7 was the perfect beginner's JRPG for me and for many others who consider it their favorite over all. That alone is why it deserves the praise. It took enough inspiration from 6 like the strategy combat system and certain characters like Terra and had that same level of enchantment 6 gave us with its score. It was the conclusion to where 6 was heading and capitalized on its strengths like exploration, combat, creativity, atmosphere, and tried to better themselves as storytellers. 6 was great at showing everyone's side of the story but it lacked the depth to really make them feel important. Terra and Locke were some of the few who felt really fleshed out. And Terra clearly inspired them to make Aeris in 7. Terra was mysteriously powerful but she wasn't strong enough as a character to be a protagonist. That was one thing I realized playing 6 again. But it definitely felt like it was leading to 7 and felt very close in other ways. If anything, let's blame Final Fantasy 6 for Enix's failures.

FFVI didn't bother to complicate things because simply put, it doesn't need to. It was a low fantasy for a Final Fantasy game. The concept of low fantasy, in gaming terms, is the emphasis on realism over fantasy, and FFVI, especially in the second half, does this. FFVIII story goes of the rails in the last third and FFIX and FFX have memorable characters, but weak plots. They are not better than FFVI. You can make a case that Final Fantasy Tactics is the best story in the series, however. And sorry, a simple story that works is far better than a complex story that doesn't. That's how FFVI's story is among the best in the series.

Terra doesn't need to be a protagonist, she isn't. If anything, its Celes that ends up the protagonist in the end. That's okay. And no, FFVI characters had depth. You had to find the depth however with characters such as Shadow and Gau. It wasn't spoonfed to you. The only characters that lacked depth are the hidden ones. FFVII on the other had, is spoonfeeding. It was more linear. Sure you had some of the path stories like Yuffie's side quest, but FFVII was more linear. It was to its detriment. The game has serious pacing issues that the series never fixed and only got worse from there. FFVI, being a story of two halves, doesn't have the pacing issues the series has.

The problem with FFVII is that while it had strong influence and direction from FFVI, it lacked the cohesiveness and direction of FFVI.

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texasgoldrush

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#52  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

@khoofia_pika said:

@texasgoldrush: Dude, get over yourself. ME3 is a great game, I love it, but accept its glaringly obvious flaws, of which it has a few. Not doing so just makes you look like a blinded biased fool.

You get over yourself, you are attacking one of the games biggest strengths as a weakness. Yes, ME3 has flaws; the journal system was weak, Javik should have never been DLC, cutscene errors (causing some minor non writer plot holes), and being downright horrible for new players....but choice and consequence is not one of them.

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nepu7supastar7

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#53 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@texasgoldrush: You keep saying that but it sounds like we're talking about two different games. Keeping it simple doesn't mean better, it means playing it safe and settling for less. I think we both can agree that story is a very important factor in RPG's which is why simplicity is not exactly a good thing, it's just lazy. Final Fantasy 7 was at the turning point of games hitting a new gen. Hitting a new gen is scary for older developers which is why it's only natural to wanna go bigger and better. I know you don't like hearing it but the sales talk a great deal of whether or not you're on the right track.

Fans are sometimes greedy, self-concerned little pricks. We tell them when a game sucks or when something is wrong with the game. Our opinions are what matters most and what determines a game's success. What some of us lack is the empathy that allows us to acknowledge the reason why developers do what they do in terms of setting games to new directions. The answer simple, every movie, comic, book and videogame goes against time. Time is everyone's enemy and you can either fight it to stay alive or die and get left behind.

Final Fantasy 7, Resident Evil 4, Elder Scrolls Skyrim..they're all the byproduct of modernization. Whether or not they can keep up with the ever-changing market from there is up to the developers. But the amount of success these certain games have achieved is enough to call them successes. It's not their fault their franchises got as low as they are today, the decisions made within the companies many years after is the problem.

The original writer for Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9 and 10 left before 11 which is why Final Fantasy is just garbage today. The creative director of Resident Evil 4 left before 5 and went on to another studio to make games like Evil Within. It's hard to pick yourself up when the main source of inspiration is gone. So then you get desperate and do stuff you said you'll never do like remake Final Fantasy 7. God only knows how long these companies can piggyback off older games but you can't blame them for fighting tooth and nail to stay relevant.

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AsadMahdi59

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#54  Edited By AsadMahdi59
Member since 2005 • 7226 Posts

COD4 - every game wanted to be the next CoD for awhile it seemed

Uncharted/Uncharted 2 - helped popularize the cinematic emphasis (along with CoD) in gaming

Out of curiosity can you guys pinpoint some of the games that helped popularize the trends of microtransactions/ FTP , excessive DLC / season passes etc - for dlc I think it was a fairly gradual process, the amount of DLC being released went up, so they introduced season passes as a sneaky way to pay more. As for microtransactions, I'm less sure, mobile gaming played a large role I'm sure.

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Heil68

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#55 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60819 Posts

Resident Evil 4 for sure,.

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Kenny789

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#56 Kenny789
Member since 2006 • 10434 Posts

I agree with Assassin's Creed II. Amazing game that made Ubisoft a little crazy on the series.

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texasgoldrush

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#57 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

@killered3 said:

@texasgoldrush: You keep saying that but it sounds like we're talking about two different games. Keeping it simple doesn't mean better, it means playing it safe and settling for less. I think we both can agree that story is a very important factor in RPG's which is why simplicity is not exactly a good thing, it's just lazy. Final Fantasy 7 was at the turning point of games hitting a new gen. Hitting a new gen is scary for older developers which is why it's only natural to wanna go bigger and better. I know you don't like hearing it but the sales talk a great deal of whether or not you're on the right track.

Fans are sometimes greedy, self-concerned little pricks. We tell them when a game sucks or when something is wrong with the game. Our opinions are what matters most and what determines a game's success. What some of us lack is the empathy that allows us to acknowledge the reason why developers do what they do in terms of setting games to new directions. The answer simple, every movie, comic, book and videogame goes against time. Time is everyone's enemy and you can either fight it to stay alive or die and get left behind.

Final Fantasy 7, Resident Evil 4, Elder Scrolls Skyrim..they're all the byproduct of modernization. Whether or not they can keep up with the ever-changing market from there is up to the developers. But the amount of success these certain games have achieved is enough to call them successes. It's not their fault their franchises got as low as they are today, the decisions made within the companies many years after is the problem.

The original writer for Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9 and 10 left before 11 which is why Final Fantasy is just garbage today. The creative director of Resident Evil 4 left before 5 and went on to another studio to make games like Evil Within. It's hard to pick yourself up when the main source of inspiration is gone. So then you get desperate and do stuff you said you'll never do like remake Final Fantasy 7. God only knows how long these companies can piggyback off older games but you can't blame them for fighting tooth and nail to stay relevant.

Final Fantasy VI did NOT play it safe. It changed the direction of the entire series from its medieval "4 elemental crystal" fantasy roots to a dark low fantasy storyline, and other than Tactics Ogre, it was the most mature JRPG at the time. In fact FFVI baffled Japanese gamers because it didn't follow the formula of the first five games.

Sakaguchi only directed the first five games. Kitase and Itoi both did VI. Kitase did VII, VIII, and X. Itoi did IX and XII. Sakaguchi didn't write the later FF games at all, he was only the producer. And FFXII was far from terrible.

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#58  Edited By WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

Earthbound Amazing game.

just got done with mother 3.....Oh my god was that complete crap, the ending sealed it for me.