Halo Reach and the Nonsensecial Graphics King Idea (56k No)

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Panther501

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#1 Panther501
Member since 2007 • 1990 Posts

I'm sure many of you have been witness to this debate being exaserbated by the 360 fanboys. The groundings of this debate is complete and utter nonsense and let me explain why.

This idea started out when Aaron Greenberg, the director of product management for the 360, openly stated in a destructorid interview (http://www.destructoid.com/aaron-greenberg-on-npd-modern-warfare-2-and-halo-reach-157596.phtml) that Halo Reach will be the biggert game of 2010. While that statement is probably true, this excited 360 fanboys to the point where rumors started to turn up about the game, one of which being that it would boast a new graphics engine.

The source of this rumor stems from the imfamous leaked image of gameplay that was posted on the internet.

f

This is an image of Halo 3 in-game

ff

To me, it looks to be the same graphics engine with some minor upgrades (notably to the textures and resolution) but it is nowhere near the quailty of a game such as Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2 (or crysis for that matter).

For reference:

***

At the VGA's, the new Halo Reach Trailer was released to the happiness of the 360 owners everywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbrN0PsYko

Bungie stated after the video's release that the video was meant to be their graphical bar they wanted to achieve.

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=news&cid=24158

Now thats all good but if you examine the differences between the leaked screenshot and the trailer, you'll notice that there is a significant difference in terms of graphical prowess. This reminds of the E305 Killzone 2 trailer that sparked such huge controversy as it was stated that that was what the game would look like. It took Gurrilla Games 4 years from that video to actually make the game look that good. Given that Halo Reach is going to be released in Fall and hasn't been in development as long as other games in the series, I have doubts that they can actually achieve that goal. They also stated on their site that the footage was all in-game and they used a frame drop technique for the video. That is basically taking very-low framerate video and combining to look 60fps. That means that there is a serious need to optimize the engine to make the game run smoothly with that kind of quality of video. Also noted is the extra AA used in the video which Bungie says won't be there when the game is released.

Even if the video from the VGA is an exact replica of what the game will look like, it doesn't even come close to the kind of quality seen in games today such as Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/train-gameplay-uncharted-2/57341

As of now, the argumentfor Halo Reach being graphics king is really out of the question (a big fat No). Whether Bungie can make the game look as good as it did in the trailer is up for speculation. Maybe the beta might finally answer that question but we will see in time.

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DarkLink77

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#2 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

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Panther501

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#3 Panther501
Member since 2007 • 1990 Posts

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

DarkLink77

Thats exactly my point. maybe not on medium but it certainly does when the settings are cranked up.

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thepoop7

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#4 thepoop7
Member since 2003 • 1391 Posts
That trailer takes places at some point in the game. Not just a made up trailer like they had for Halo 3 . And they have stated ( I thought they did ) that they are using a different engine. So why are you arguing that?
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BlindfireMcgee

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#5 BlindfireMcgee
Member since 2010 • 323 Posts
I agree man. Remember their old Announcement trailer interview: "This is the game. This is the engine. This is what Halo 3 is going to look like." LOL, such BS. Anyway, Halo: Reach won't touch Killzone 2 or Uncharted 2. GUARANTEED.
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CanYouDiglt

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#6 CanYouDiglt
Member since 2009 • 8500 Posts
OMG who cares. A PS3 user making a thread saying that Halo graphics bad blah blah blah. MY god there has been one trailer and the game is a year away. I have seen so many PS3 users making anti-Halo threads lately are they really that threatened by a game a year away?
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Panther501

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#7 Panther501
Member since 2007 • 1990 Posts
That trailer takes places at some point in the game. Not just a made up trailer like they had for Halo 3 . And they have stated ( I thought they did ) that they are using a different engine. So why are you arguing that?thepoop7
No its the same engine Taken from their site: A: The Halo: Reach trailer was produced directly in our new game engine using real game assets. Because the game is still in the midst of development, which means things like framerate are still in flux, we do something called a "frame dump" that lets us spit out the content, frame by frame, and then compile it back as the video you all saw on Saturday. We can actually run this same cinematic right now, within the latest game build, but it's not always at the consistent smooth framerate of the final game (yet).
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DarkLink77

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#8 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

Panther501

Agreed, maybe not on medium but it certainly does when the settings are cranked up.

I dunno. I just got it yesterday. My comp will only run it on medium with a solid frame rate, but it's still the best looking game I've ever seen. The point stands though. Crysis is still king.

On another note, am I the only one who feels sorry for Epic and id and other engine licensers when Crytek starts licensing the CryEngine?

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windsquid9000

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#10 windsquid9000
Member since 2009 • 3206 Posts
That trailer takes places at some point in the game. Not just a made up trailer like they had for Halo 3 . And they have stated ( I thought they did ) that they are using a different engine. So why are you arguing that?thepoop7
They also said footage from the trailer was taken from the 360 and touched up with AA.
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BlindfireMcgee

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#11 BlindfireMcgee
Member since 2010 • 323 Posts
[QUOTE="Panther501"][QUOTE="CanYouDiglt"]OMG who cares. A PS3 user making a thread saying that Halo graphics bad blah blah blah. MY god there has been one trailer and the game is a year away. I have seen so many PS3 users making anti-Halo threads lately are they really that threatened by a game a year away?

And are lemmings that nervous that they have nothing that can compete against the PS3's amount of visually amazing games that they are toting this game graphics king?

Halo's levels are usually really large so there is no way that the engine will be able to sustain such graphics level while keeping the scale in size. Maybe it'll be on par with Bioshock ONE.
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DarkLink77

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#12 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
[QUOTE="thepoop7"]That trailer takes places at some point in the game. Not just a made up trailer like they had for Halo 3 . And they have stated ( I thought they did ) that they are using a different engine. So why are you arguing that?Panther501
No its the same engine Taken from their site: A: The Halo: Reach trailer was produced directly in our new game engine using real game assets. Because the game is still in the midst of development, which means things like framerate are still in flux, we do something called a "frame dump" that lets us spit out the content, frame by frame, and then compile it back as the video you all saw on Saturday. We can actually run this same cinematic right now, within the latest game build, but it's not always at the consistent smooth framerate of the final game (yet).

It is a different engine from Halo 3. Halo 3 used a modified Halo 2 engine, and this one uses the X-engine, which is developed specifically for the 360.
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CanYouDiglt

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#13 CanYouDiglt
Member since 2009 • 8500 Posts
[QUOTE="Panther501"][QUOTE="CanYouDiglt"]OMG who cares. A PS3 user making a thread saying that Halo graphics bad blah blah blah. MY god there has been one trailer and the game is a year away. I have seen so many PS3 users making anti-Halo threads lately are they really that threatened by a game a year away?

And are lemmings that nervous that they have nothing that can compete against the PS3's amount of visually amazing games that they are toting this game graphics king?

Hey you are the one making your Halo bash thread so seems your the one that is somehow threatened by a game almost a full year away.
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topgunmv

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#14 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

Saying you know the game will not be a "console graphics king" is no better than saying it will. All you have to go on is a trailer.

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monkeytoes61

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#15 monkeytoes61
Member since 2005 • 8399 Posts
Who cares about graphics? Gameplay is far more important, is it not?
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omarguy01

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#16 omarguy01
Member since 2004 • 8139 Posts

basing this off a blurry off-screen image? really?

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painguy1

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#17 painguy1
Member since 2007 • 8686 Posts

The trialer was prerendered, Crysis is still graphics king. /thread

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Panther501

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#18 Panther501
Member since 2007 • 1990 Posts
[QUOTE="CanYouDiglt"][QUOTE="Panther501"][QUOTE="CanYouDiglt"]OMG who cares. A PS3 user making a thread saying that Halo graphics bad blah blah blah. MY god there has been one trailer and the game is a year away. I have seen so many PS3 users making anti-Halo threads lately are they really that threatened by a game a year away?

And are lemmings that nervous that they have nothing that can compete against the PS3's amount of visually amazing games that they are toting this game graphics king?

Hey you are the one making your Halo bash thread so seems your the one that is somehow threatened by a game almost a full year away.

I'm not trying to bash Halo, I'm just making a point that its not going to be a graphics king. I like Halo, I think its a fun game. But the idea that a game that is from a series that has never been known for graphics is trying to become this new paragon of graphics is stupid to me.
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Panther501

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#19 Panther501
Member since 2007 • 1990 Posts

basing this off a blurry off-screen image? really?

omarguy01
Partly my point. Why are 360 fanboys basing an arguement that Halo Reach will be graphics king off this when the image is this contorted. You can however get an idea about what kind of textures and resolution you can expect.
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topgunmv

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#20 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

[QUOTE="CanYouDiglt"][QUOTE="Panther501"] And are lemmings that nervous that they have nothing that can compete against the PS3's amount of visually amazing games that they are toting this game graphics king?Panther501
Hey you are the one making your Halo bash thread so seems your the one that is somehow threatened by a game almost a full year away.

I'm not trying to bash Halo, I'm just making a point that its not going to be a graphics king. I like Halo, I think its a fun game. But the idea that a game that is from a series that has never been known for graphics is trying to become this new paragon of graphics is stupid to me.

The first two, the second one especially, were well known as being among the xbox's best looking games. This gen the ball has definitely been dropped thus far, but that's only accounting for half the series.

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Vaasman

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#21 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

[QUOTE="omarguy01"]

basing this off a blurry off-screen image? really?

Panther501

Partly my point. Why are 360 fanboys basing an arguement that Halo Reach will be graphics king off this when the image is this contorted. You can however get an idea about what kind of textures and resolution you can expect.

No you can't. Even if this picture is legit it contains several noticable placeholder textures. And resolution? Can you honestly make a judgement to whether it's HD or not by that picture?

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topgunmv

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#22 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

[QUOTE="omarguy01"]

basing this off a blurry off-screen image? really?

Panther501

Partly my point. Why are 360 fanboys basing an arguement that Halo Reach will be graphics king off this when the image is this contorted. You can however get an idea about what kind of textures and resolution you can expect.

Not to sound like I'm trying to harass you with all my comments, but wouldn't a blurry off-screen image be the exact opposite of giving an idea as to textures and resolution? Even if the pictures were clear, the fact that they're off screen would hide aliasing, making the image appear to be higher res/higher AA than it really is.

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rolo107

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#23 rolo107
Member since 2007 • 5469 Posts
Bungie confirmed that it is on a new engine, lol. Plus those shots don't look anything like an engine upgrade, completely different style(not artstyle) and much higher quality.
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Blue-Sky

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#24 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

You cannot compare Uncharted 2 to Halo: Reach.

Both game engines are tailored around contrasting gameplay (open & Corridor) and both games have contrasting art directions (realistic & fanciful).

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jettpack

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#25 jettpack
Member since 2009 • 3192 Posts

Good thread. We know Halo Reach wont be as good looking as uncharted 2 or Crysis, the 360 just doesnt have the horse power. However, Im wondering if HALO REACH is going to be the best looking 360 game. Right now Gears of war 2 i think holds that record.

Heres my Graphics List

1. Crysis

2.Uncharted 2

3.Arma 2

4.Killzone 2

5. Shattered Horizon

6.Stalker Clear Sky

7.Modern Warfare 2 (pc version)

8.Resident Evil 5 (pc Version)

9.Gears of war 2

10.Dirt 2

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#26 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 50068 Posts
No console game will achieve "graphics king". The argument rests behind Halo Reach looking the best game on consoles, which is plausible. Bungie sure has a nice engine behind their game, that's for sure.
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G-O-M-J

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#27 G-O-M-J
Member since 2009 • 1520 Posts

If all the gun models look as awesome as this one and the envirnments look good too then it will be one of the best looking games of 2010, alongside mass effect 2, allan wake, crysis 2, metro 2033, brink, rage and final fantasy 13 which will all be competing for graphics king next year.

imo

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mayceV

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#28 mayceV
Member since 2008 • 4633 Posts

uhhhh...yeah why don't you use the best pics of the pre alpha build?

Image 1this is Halo reach pre alpha.this is Halo ODSTImage 16the weapon models are atleast 5X times better. and halo reach is in pre alpha, with place holder textures in the following pics.how do I know its pre alpha?Image 1look at the objtives, go to place here...... yeah nothing, its no where near done.Image 1heres another nice pic.and btw its not the same graphics engine watch Halo reach's reveal in the e3 2009. they state its a new engine. and you are judgin by the worst of alpha pics. wait till the game is done, in september thats 9 months from now. Not only that but these pics were taken back before september, since bungie stated that they finished Map layout around that time and are starting to add textures.
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awuilfj

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#30 awuilfj
Member since 2009 • 409 Posts

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

DarkLink77
I have to agree, pc is the graphics king, lemmings have to get used to that idea. :)
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opex07

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#31 opex07
Member since 2007 • 2236 Posts

[QUOTE="thepoop7"]That trailer takes places at some point in the game. Not just a made up trailer like they had for Halo 3 . And they have stated ( I thought they did ) that they are using a different engine. So why are you arguing that?Panther501

No its the same engine Taken from their site:

A: The Halo: Reach trailer was produced directly in our new game engine using real game assets. Because the game is still in the midst of development, which means things like framerate are still in flux, we do something called a "frame dump" that lets us spit out the content, frame by frame, and then compile it back as the video you all saw on Saturday. We can actually run this same cinematic right now, within the latest game build, but it's not always at the consistent smooth framerate of the final game (yet).

The first line of your quote says new game engine so I don't understand why you are trying to make the argument that its not using a new engine.

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GhoX

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#32 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts
I have super-unnecessarily-HD texture packs installed on my Crysis and Warhead, just to spray salt on the wounds of these self-claimed graphics kings.
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awuilfj

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#33 awuilfj
Member since 2009 • 409 Posts
I have super-unnecessarily-HD texture packs installed on my Crysis and Warhead, just to spray salt on the wounds of these self-claimed graphics kings.GhoX
Post the screens. I wanna see.
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GhoX

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#34 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts
Mm, fine. I wonder where would be a good spot.
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agff9

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#35 agff9
Member since 2006 • 514 Posts

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

DarkLink77
Stalker says no
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shawn7324

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#36 shawn7324
Member since 2006 • 8690 Posts

Wow I guess only 360 fanboys come up with stupid debates. TC get over yourself man.

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GhoX

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#37 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

agff9
Stalker says no

Stalker's and Crysis's graphics aren't even on the same level. Stalker Clear Sky   Crysis with texture pack and some tweaks.
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awssk8er716

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#38 awssk8er716
Member since 2005 • 8485 Posts

Who cares about graphics? Gameplay is far more important, is it not?monkeytoes61

You are 100% right, but 360 fanboys kept saying that Halo Reach's graphics were going to be better than anything we've ever seen, then once some footage is released, they totally switched sides and started saying stuff like:

OMG who cares. A PS3 user making a thread saying that Halo graphics bad blah blah blah.

MY god there has been one trailer and the game is a year away. I have seen so many PS3 users making anti-Halo threads lately are they really that threatened by a game a year away?CanYouDiglt

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shawn7324

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#39 shawn7324
Member since 2006 • 8690 Posts

[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]Who cares about graphics? Gameplay is far more important, is it not?awssk8er716

You are 100% right, but 360 fanboys kept saying that Halo Reach's graphics were going to be better than anything we've ever seen, then once some footage is released, they totally switched sides and started saying stuff like:

OMG who cares. A PS3 user making a thread saying that Halo graphics bad blah blah blah.

MY god there has been one trailer and the game is a year away. I have seen so many PS3 users making anti-Halo threads lately are they really that threatened by a game a year away?CanYouDiglt

Wow fanboys going back & forth saying different crap. Why are you acting like this was some new behavior? Fanboys, 360, PS3, all do stupid crap like that.
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awuilfj

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#40 awuilfj
Member since 2009 • 409 Posts
[QUOTE="awssk8er716"]

[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]

You are 100% right, but 360 fanboys kept saying that Halo Reach's graphics were going to be better than anything we've ever seen, then once some footage is released, they totally switched sides and started saying stuff like:

[QUOTE="CanYouDiglt"]OMG who cares. A PS3 user making a thread saying that Halo graphics bad blah blah blah.

MY god there has been one trailer and the game is a year away. I have seen so many PS3 users making anti-Halo threads lately are they really that threatened by a game a year away?shawn7324

Wow fanboys going back & forth saying different crap. Why are you acting like this was some new behavior? Fanboys, 360, PS3, all do stupid crap like that.

He is not acting like that...
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SpinoRaptor24

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#41 SpinoRaptor24
Member since 2008 • 10316 Posts

Holy hell why don't we just make a Halo Reach sticky thread right now? (though I doubt that would stop cows from posting more anti-Halo threads)

The fact is this; Reach isn't going to win graphics king. That's not going to stop it from being a AAA game. But of course we'll get the usual "MS payed off the reviewers" and "teh biased" comments from anti-halo fanboys. They'll whine and bash and point out the small flaws of the game while blowing them out of proportion.

At the end of the day it's going to be another quality game from Bungie.

Deal with it.

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bobbetybob

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#42 bobbetybob
Member since 2005 • 19370 Posts
People trying to prove it's not graphics king are just as bad as people who are claiming it is. THE GAME IS NOT OUT WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY IN GAME FOOTAGE. So just stop trying, both sides, please.
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BloodSeeker1337

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#43 BloodSeeker1337
Member since 2009 • 1278 Posts
Crysis > ALL But Halo Reach Do Have An Improvement :)
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awuilfj

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#44 awuilfj
Member since 2009 • 409 Posts
[QUOTE="BloodSeeker1337"]Crysis > ALL But Halo Reach Do Have An Improvement :)

Yes, Crysis>Uncharted2/KZ2>Reach>wii
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shawn7324

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#45 shawn7324
Member since 2006 • 8690 Posts
[QUOTE="awuilfj"][QUOTE="BloodSeeker1337"]Crysis > ALL But Halo Reach Do Have An Improvement :)

Yes, Crysis>Uncharted2/KZ2>Reach>wii

Who cares about Reach right now anyways? We got Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell Conviction, MAG, Bad Company 2, etc etc right around the corner.
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ToScA-

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#46 ToScA-
Member since 2006 • 5783 Posts
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

awuilfj
I have to agree, pc is the graphics king, lemmings have to get used to that idea. :)

Indeed. However, moreso do cows. Rarely do I see 'Gears of War 2 vs Crysis' - threads as opposed to the redundant 'Uncharted 2 vs Crysis'.
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awuilfj

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#47 awuilfj
Member since 2009 • 409 Posts
[QUOTE="awuilfj"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

ToScA-
I have to agree, pc is the graphics king, lemmings have to get used to that idea. :)

Indeed. However, moreso do cows. Rarely do I see 'Gears of War 2 vs Crysis' - threads as opposed to the redundant 'Uncharted 2 vs Crysis'.

You rarely see that,because they keep saying *a game not yet released and 360 exclusive* vs Crysis. While Cows stick to UC2 or KZ2. Both are fanboys, ignore :)
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halo_wars86

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#48 halo_wars86
Member since 2009 • 1505 Posts

plz dont post bullshots. uncharted 2 does not look like the photo u posted i dont know what tv u hav but the game does not look that good.

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surrealnumber5

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#49 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

It's irrevelent, because Crysis on Medium blows away just about anything on the market.

Panther501

Thats exactly my point. maybe not on medium but it certainly does when the settings are cranked up.

if that were your point you would have made it your point
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WilliamRLBaker

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#50 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

Fake Fact 1# pre alpha fuzzy camera phone screenies of halo reach= 100% confirmation of its graphics, before, now and after....*laughs*

True Fact 2# the VGA trailer was all ingame, regardless of the fact they removed the frames from the buffer because of fps, it still shows the game is capable of matching uncharted 2.

thats all i have to say really, im off to rip more of my cds an put them on my zune hd 32 gig.