Has blizzard lost it?

[QUOTE="STurn21"]

[QUOTE="Hewkii"] when all but two of those are expansion packs, yes it is reasonably insignificant.Birdy09

If you have actually played those "expansion packs" you would realize that they are significantly ahead of most standalone titles.

But they are ahead because of grind mechanics... not acual content quality/variety. I lvoe MMO's, but that arguement is always ridiculous, the time comes with the style of game in MMOs case, not the "sheer ammount of content compared to stand alone games" which is a laughable idea.

The same argument can be made for any game. The majority of the time you spend isn't experiencing new content, but retrudging old content (whether it be through MP or replaying SP).

In Halo, you play the same maps, for example. In Arkham Asylum, from replaying sections of the game in Challenge mode. In Super Mario Galaxy, re-collecting all stars.

People are trying to argue Blizzard are lazy for making expansions. Yet these expansions are so comprehensive, there's no reason to consider WoW any less of an effort on Blizzard's part; they've spent the time creating just as much content as a developer on any other game would have. More, really.

As WoW progresses the game just gets more casual. It's far too easy to gain rewards, and is way too accessible to bad players, and as such the game is nowhere near as great as the first game was PvP/PvE-wise.

treedoor

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="STurn21"]

If you have actually played those "expansion packs" you would realize that they are significantly ahead of most standalone titles.

Danm_999

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

As WoW progresses the game just gets more casual. It's far too easy to gain rewards, and is way too accessible to bad players, and as such the game is nowhere near as great as the first game was PvP/PvE-wise.

Hewkii

Those ranks were awesome, and also imbalanced arena fighting is pretty bad itself.

Mainly pre-bc pvp was awesome because pre-mades.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] But they are ahead because of grind mechanics... not acual content quality/variety. I lvoe MMO's, but that arguement is always ridiculous, the time comes with the style of game in MMOs case, not the "sheer ammount of content compared to stand alone games" which is a laughable idea.Birdy09

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="treedoor"]

As WoW progresses the game just gets more casual. It's far too easy to gain rewards, and is way too accessible to bad players, and as such the game is nowhere near as great as the first game was PvP/PvE-wise.

treedoor

Those ranks were awesome, and also imbalanced arena fighting is pretty bad itself.

Mainly pre-bc pvp was awesome because pre-mades.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

As WoW progresses the game just gets more casual. It's far too easy to gain rewards, and is way too accessible to bad players, and as such the game is nowhere near as great as the first game was PvP/PvE-wise.

Hewkii

I find people are generally far too optimistic about Vanilla WoW.

The calls for Vanilla servers are pretty misguided, given how many improvements the expansions brought.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

[QUOTE="Hewkii"] Bull. PvP pre-BC was horrible, unless constantly grinding to keep your rank and dishonorable kills appeal to you.Danm_999

Those ranks were awesome, and also imbalanced arena fighting is pretty bad itself.

Mainly pre-bc pvp was awesome because pre-mades.

Arathi was pretty awesome too.

I remember one time having around at least 40 alliance, and 40 horde all fighting there. That was fun.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="treedoor"]

Those ranks were awesome, and also imbalanced arena fighting is pretty bad itself.

Mainly pre-bc pvp was awesome because pre-mades.

treedoor

Arathi was pretty awesome too.

I remember one time having around at least 40 alliance, and 40 horde all fighting there. That was fun.

Those ranks were awesome, and also imbalanced arena fighting is pretty bad itself.

treedoor

[QUOTE="Aku101"]

[QUOTE="naval"] except that in the last 10 years they have made 8 games 6 of which have been AAA and 2 AA and that their games are still played till the next iteration is outDanm_999

Expansions don't count. They're practically game patches with a price tag.

Quality over quantity.

What's so good about blizzard? They make a game like every 10 years.

Aku101

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="treedoor"]

As WoW progresses the game just gets more casual. It's far too easy to gain rewards, and is way too accessible to bad players, and as such the game is nowhere near as great as the first game was PvP/PvE-wise.

I find people are generally far too optimistic about Vanilla WoW.

The calls for Vanilla servers are pretty misguided, given how many improvements the expansions brought.

Funny that the console gamers here are criticizing expansions. Just a FYI, consoles get expansion packs also. Only difference is that the devs don't call it an expansion pack and charge you $60 for it.

Quality over quantity.

topgunmv

It's a good thing Blizzard provides both then. Why do idiots who haven't even played WoW try to bash it?

Funny that the console gamers here are criticizing expansions. Just a FYI, consoles get expansion packs also. Only difference is that the devs don't call it an expansion pack and charge you $60 for it.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

Quality over quantity.

Materia_Ashes

It's a good thing Blizzard provides both then. Why do idiots who haven't even played WoW try to bash it?

I cleared ulduar with exception to algalon or whatever is name is about a month after it released. Try again.

[QUOTE="kate_jones"]

blizzard dont release much, is taking them forever to what is basically update the graphics on starcraft.Danm_999

I'd hardly call tbc wtlk a new game. You cant compare the time spent in an mmo to a console game.kate_jones

if Killing 3000 elementals or flying around trying to beat farmers to mining nodes or herbs is gives you pleasure than so be it, or perhaps doing the same instance over and over hoping for some obscure loot drop, dancing in whatever city is currently the hot spot, getting welfare epics in the arena, ugh *shivers*

kate_jones

and why would I, the game just gets easier and easier with every expansion, I'd happily still play the game pre tbc.

faction transfers? pve to pvp transfers? multiple talent tree's? welfare epics? no 40 man raids?

I'm content remembering my 40 man naxx raids and real world pvp, than whatever sesame street version your playing now

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="kate_jones"]

blizzard dont release much, is taking them forever to what is basically update the graphics on starcraft.kate_jones

I'd hardly call tbc wtlk a new game. You cant compare the time spent in an mmo to a console game.kate_jones

if Killing 3000 elementals or flying around trying to beat farmers to mining nodes or herbs is gives you pleasure than so be it, or perhaps doing the same instance over and over hoping for some obscure loot drop, dancing in whatever city is currently the hot spot, getting welfare epics in the arena, ugh *shivers*

kate_jones

and why would I, the game just gets easier and easier with every expansion, I'd happily still play the game pre tbc.

faction transfers? pve to pvp transfers? multiple talent tree's? welfare epics? no 40 man raids?

I'm content remembering my 40 man naxx raids and real world pvp, than whatever sesame street version your playing now

I have to agree with this person. I basically only played the game for world PvP, and yes I logged in a total of 5800 hours into WoW before I finally quit a few months ago >_______________> TBC and WoTLK stretched out the land too much when there aren't that many players per server. Then, the terrible advent of the flying mount and welfare epics totally killed any world PvP left for me. I felt meh through TBC, then double meh when I came back from a long break to play WoTLK. PvE game is PvE.......and now it's catering to an extremely casual fanbase. Lethalhazard

yep welfare epics seriously killed pvp and pretty much made raiding pointless too. In the end for me there was no point even playing the game for more than 10 mins, log in do arena log out.

glad youre free of it, lifes much better without it, im ashamed of how much of my life I wasted in that game

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Aku101"]

Expansions don't count. They're practically game patches with a price tag.

Aku101

Uncharted 2. Co-op, multiplayer singleplayer, cinema mode plus a slew of other content.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"]I have to agree with this person. I basically only played the game for world PvP, and yes I logged in a total of 5800 hours into WoW before I finally quit a few months ago >_______________> TBC and WoTLK stretched out the land too much when there aren't that many players per server. Then, the terrible advent of the flying mount and welfare epics totally killed any world PvP left for me. I felt meh through TBC, then double meh when I came back from a long break to play WoTLK. PvE game is PvE.......and now it's catering to an extremely casual fanbase. kate_jones

yep welfare epics seriously killed pvp and pretty much made raiding pointless too. In the end for me there was no point even playing the game for more than 10 mins, log in do arena log out.

glad youre free of it, lifes much better without it, im ashamed of how much of my life I wasted in that game

[QUOTE="Aku101"]

[QUOTE="naval"] except that in the last 10 years they have made 8 games 6 of which have been AAA and 2 AA and that their games are still played till the next iteration is outnaval

Expansions don't count. They're practically game patches with a price tag.

Also

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="Aku101"]

What's so good about blizzard? They make a game like every 10 years.

Aku101

Expansions don't count. They're practically game patches with a price tag.

If expansion like WoW ones don't count then neither does Uncharted2 as it's far more of a "patch with a price tag" than WoW add-ons in every way,

i dont have anything to say about wow but d3 looks like d2 but better.

10MP

and since we get so many hundreds of iso view dungeon crawlers that are AAAA quality each year that its a bad thing??? Did you expect them to turn it into a FPS? They added physics, new class's, the graphics look sweet, I dont get it. They are on the verge of 2 massive game releases, not exactly the time to say they have lost it?! lol

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="treedoor"]

As WoW progresses the game just gets more casual. It's far too easy to gain rewards, and is way too accessible to bad players, and as such the game is nowhere near as great as the first game was PvP/PvE-wise.

treedoor

Those ranks were awesome, and also imbalanced arena fighting is pretty bad itself.

Mainly pre-bc pvp was awesome because pre-mades.

wow arena right now is better than most games on its own. And i saw someone say welfare epics come from pvp? they did when merciless gear was handed out to every noob in the game and thats all you could see was a sea of merciless shoulders and weapons. Things have changed, my fairly average guild one shots there way through T9 content, and everyone has T9, its very easy and you dont feel good at all wearing it because everyone in the game looks like twins. The high rated pvp gear is the last bastion of identifying a skilled player by looking at his gear.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

[QUOTE="Hewkii"] Bull. PvP pre-BC was horrible, unless constantly grinding to keep your rank and dishonorable kills appeal to you.chrion133

Those ranks were awesome, and also imbalanced arena fighting is pretty bad itself.

Mainly pre-bc pvp was awesome because pre-mades.

wow arena right now is better than most games on its own. And i saw someone say welfare epics come from pvp? they did when merciless gear was handed out to every noob in the game and thats all you could see was a sea of merciless shoulders and weapons. Things have changed, my fairly average guild one shots there way through T9 content, and everyone has T9, its very easy and you dont feel good at all wearing it because everyone in the game looks like twins. The high rated pvp gear is the last bastion of identifying a skilled player by looking at his gear.

they used to be one of my favorite companies. I know they got bought out by activision. But watching the diablo 3 footage i'm actually quite unimpressed. I'm surprised actually because i'm usually the first person to say if it's blizzard it's awesome. Same with alot of the recent changes to wow. They used to have a real knack for marketing to the masses but it almost seems to me like theya re getting too big for their britches or something and are doing things that didn't make them the company they were in the first place suddenly. Plus ive had issues with their support and everything in between.

Walker34

D3 looks great btw, and SC2 will be epic, you can count on that.

[QUOTE="Aku101"]

[QUOTE="naval"] except that in the last 10 years they have made 8 games 6 of which have been AAA and 2 AA and that their games are still played till the next iteration is outnaval

Expansions don't count. They're practically game patches with a price tag.

Yea cuz multiplayer, new graphics, new campaign and a couple of new guns arent worht a new game...

But yeah i agree i cant wait for Diablo 3, but i just dont care bout release dates. They just push evreything back each time or something...

[QUOTE="Walker34"]

well they've been milking wow with expansions for the last 5 years. that much is apparent.

Danm_999

Praise from the press is totally different from the actual gaming community, sorry but the Blizzard we knew for Diablo and Starcraft is long gone and its been gone for awhile (what they've been doing for WoW is nothing original anymore and making it to casual friendly where my 86 year old grandma can make a DK and kill anyone in her path with ease).

Lets talk outside of WoW for a moment, lets talk about Starcraft 2.I was very hyped when i first heard about it tell they basically pulled a Valve and put SC2 in a episodic format.....are you kidding me?, I got wait god only knows how long just to play as the Protos?.

D3 looks very interesting but the classes that you can play don't really look interesting (at least to me) except the monk and wizard which look very promising while the shaman/witch doctorand barb look very bland.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Walker34"]

well they've been milking wow with expansions for the last 5 years. that much is apparent.

Ballroompirate

Praise from the press is totally different from the actual gaming community, sorry but the Blizzard we knew for Diablo and Starcraft is long gone and its been gone for awhile (what they've been doing for WoW is nothing original anymore and making it to casual friendly where my 86 year old grandma can make a DK and kill anyone in her path with ease).

Lets talk outside of WoW for a moment, lets talk about Starcraft 2.I was very hyped when i first heard about it tell they basically pulled a Valve and put SC2 in a episodic format.....are you kidding me?, I got wait god only knows how long just to play as the Protos?.

D3 looks very interesting but the classes that you can play don't really look interesting (at least to me) except the monk and wizard which look very promising while the shaman/witch doctorand barb look very bland.

What's interesting if you don't count expansions they used to release a new game like every year. They havent released a new game in like 5 years now. They used to come up with new games. They had warcraft. They came out with diablo and then starcraft.

Not counting expansions

Warcraft 1994

Warcraft II 1995

Diablo 1996

Starcraft 1998

Diablo 2 2000

Warcraft 3 2002

World of Warcraft 2004

They haven't released a completely new game in like 5 years. It will be 6 when they come out. It's been 11 years and 9 years respectively since they expanded on starcraft and diablo. They havent come up with a new franchise in 11 years. I sense milkage a bit.

Lets talk outside of WoW for a moment, lets talk about Starcraft 2.I was very hyped when i first heard about it tell they basically pulled a Valve and put SC2 in a episodic format.....are you kidding me?, I got wait god only knows how long just to play as the Protos?.

Ballroompirate

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"] Why is it consistently receiving critical praise then?mirgamer

Praise from the press is totally different from the actual gaming community, sorry but the Blizzard we knew for Diablo and Starcraft is long gone and its been gone for awhile (what they've been doing for WoW is nothing original anymore and making it to casual friendly where my 86 year old grandma can make a DK and kill anyone in her path with ease).

Lets talk outside of WoW for a moment, lets talk about Starcraft 2.I was very hyped when i first heard about it tell they basically pulled a Valve and put SC2 in a episodic format.....are you kidding me?, I got wait god only knows how long just to play as the Protos?.

D3 looks very interesting but the classes that you can play don't really look interesting (at least to me) except the monk and wizard which look very promising while the shaman/witch doctorand barb look very bland.

Sorry but if you actually believe 11 million subs is amazing then try to subtract all the gold farmers,un active accounts,people with more than one accounts, which ain't gonna be some punny number.

I would suggest go over to the offical WoW forum and see how many bash threads they get daily (take your pick i've seen them all)

I would suggest go over to the offical WoW forum and see how many bash threads they get daily (take your pick i've seen them all)

Ballroompirate

What's interesting if you don't count expansions they used to release a new game like every year. They havent released a new game in like 5 years now. They used to come up with new games. They had warcraft. They came out with diablo and then starcraft.

Not counting expansions

Warcraft 1994

Warcraft II 1995

Diablo 1996

Starcraft 1998

Diablo 2 2000

Warcraft 3 2002

World of Warcraft 2004

They haven't released a completely new game in like 5 years. It's been 11 years and 9 years respectively since they expanded on starcraft and diablo. They havent come up with a new franchise in 11 years. I sense milkage a bit.

[QUOTE="mirgamer"][QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]

Praise from the press is totally different from the actual gaming community, sorry but the Blizzard we knew for Diablo and Starcraft is long gone and its been gone for awhile (what they've been doing for WoW is nothing original anymore and making it to casual friendly where my 86 year old grandma can make a DK and kill anyone in her path with ease).

Lets talk outside of WoW for a moment, lets talk about Starcraft 2.I was very hyped when i first heard about it tell they basically pulled a Valve and put SC2 in a episodic format.....are you kidding me?, I got wait god only knows how long just to play as the Protos?.

D3 looks very interesting but the classes that you can play don't really look interesting (at least to me) except the monk and wizard which look very promising while the shaman/witch doctorand barb look very bland.

Ballroompirate

Sorry but if you actually believe 11 million subs is amazing then try to subtract all the gold farmers,un active accounts,people with more than one accounts, which ain't gonna be some punny number.

I would suggest go over to the offical WoW forum and see how many bash threads they get daily (take your pick i've seen them all)

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

[QUOTE="Hewkii"] Bull. PvP pre-BC was horrible, unless constantly grinding to keep your rank and dishonorable kills appeal to you.sSubZerOo

I find people are generally far too optimistic about Vanilla WoW.

The calls for Vanilla servers are pretty misguided, given how many improvements the expansions brought.

And what happened after BC came out?

Umm, hunters were broken in PvP, Shamans were broken in PvP...

Then WotLK launches, and what happens? Druids are broken, warlocks are broken, mages/rogues can two shot people, deathknight/paladin is unstoppable.....

The game has never had balanced c|asses.

The reason people are optimistic about Pre-BC was because raiding meant something (in b4 lol pixel dragons). People wanted to progress, and tried hard at all the boss fights to get to where they did. In WotLK what happened? I remember my guild. I raided all of Naxx, Malygos, and I got up to 2 drake Sartharion with a guild coated in.......BLUES!!!!!!! We complete all the raids in two/three weeks time in blues? And Ulduar didn't change any of that. I remember watching my friends bad guild get through that place in blues too.....

The game is far too simple nowadays. There's no "mastering" the game, there's no incentive to get better. Playing with bad players is not my idea of a fun game experience.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Danm_999"]

I find people are generally far too optimistic about Vanilla WoW.

The calls for Vanilla servers are pretty misguided, given how many improvements the expansions brought.

treedoor

And what happened after BC came out?

Umm, hunters were broken in PvP, Shamans were broken in PvP...

Then WotLK launches, and what happens? Druids are broken, warlocks are broken, mages/rogues can two shot people, deathknight/paladin is unstoppable.....

The game has never had balanced c|asses.

The reason people are optimistic about Pre-BC was because raiding meant something (in b4 lol pixel dragons). People wanted to progress, and tried hard at all the boss fights to get to where they did. In WotLK what happened? I remember my guild. I raided all of Naxx, Malygos, and I got up to 2 drake Sartharion with a guild coated in.......BLUES!!!!!!! We complete all the raids in two/three weeks time in blues? And Ulduar didn't change any of that. I remember watching my friends bad guild get through that place in blues too.....

The game is far too simple nowadays. There's no "mastering" the game, there's no incentive to get better. Playing with bad players is not my idea of a fun game experience.

Easy game is easy.

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]

[QUOTE="mirgamer"] You're saying gaming community thinks differently about Blizzard than the the press? Erm, 11 million + subs in WoW + SC and D2 still being one of the most popular online games even now = pretty positive attitude towards Blizzard from gaming communities.Lethalhazard

Sorry but if you actually believe 11 million subs is amazing then try to subtract all the gold farmers,un active accounts,people with more than one accounts, which ain't gonna be some punny number.

I would suggest go over to the offical WoW forum and see how many bash threads they get daily (take your pick i've seen them all)

also , to Ballroompirate : Do you have any way of calculating the numbers ? if not, then your comments really don't proove anything/ I don't think the numbers would be more than 1 million, so there would be around 11 million subs

What changes in WoW bugged you?Danm_999

Everything. The game got destroyed basically the first week of 2009.

Leveling in Wrath of the Lich King was great, but after that, everything was just awful.

O_______________O

Wow, it still is growing.

Then again, they made everything a lot easier so it's more accessible >_> I wish it still just appealed to a more niche of MMO players.....with some of the casual elements of the original WoW, + the conveniences in interface with the current WoW.

O_______________O

Wow, it still is growing.

Then again, they made everything a lot easier so it's more accessible >_> I wish it still just appealed to a more niche of MMO players.....with some of the casual elements of the original WoW, + the conveniences in interface with the current WoW.

Lethalhazard

Well that's what I don't get.

Didn't the game have like 8 million subs pre-bc? And after making it a casual-dominated game it's only grown by 3 million people in the last 3-4 years when it gained those original 8 million in two years. They really had a great thing going originally imo.

But Blizzard did state their next MMO is supposed to have even more mass-appeal, so bleh. That's already crossed off my list of games to ever care about.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"]

O_______________O

Wow, it still is growing.

Then again, they made everything a lot easier so it's more accessible >_> I wish it still just appealed to a more niche of MMO players.....with some of the casual elements of the original WoW, + the conveniences in interface with the current WoW.

treedoor

Well that's what I don't get.

Didn't the game have like 8 million subs pre-bc? And after making it a casual-dominated game it's only grown by 3 million people in the last 3-4 years when it gained those original 8 million in two years. They really had a great thing going originally imo.

But Blizzard did state their next MMO is supposed to have even more mass-appeal, so bleh. That's already crossed off my list of games to ever care about.

The reason people are optimistic about Pre-BC was because raiding meant something (in b4 lol pixel dragons). People wanted to progress, and tried hard at all the boss fights to get to where they did. In WotLK what happened? I remember my guild. I raided all of Naxx, Malygos, and I got up to 2 drake Sartharion with a guild coated in.......BLUES!!!!!!! We complete all the raids in two/three weeks time in blues? And Ulduar didn't change any of that. I remember watching my friends bad guild get through that place in blues too.....

The game is far too simple nowadays. There's no "mastering" the game, there's no incentive to get better. Playing with bad players is not my idea of a fun game experience.

treedoor

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

The reason people are optimistic about Pre-BC was because raiding meant something (in b4 lol pixel dragons). People wanted to progress, and tried hard at all the boss fights to get to where they did. In WotLK what happened? I remember my guild. I raided all of Naxx, Malygos, and I got up to 2 drake Sartharion with a guild coated in.......BLUES!!!!!!! We complete all the raids in two/three weeks time in blues? And Ulduar didn't change any of that. I remember watching my friends bad guild get through that place in blues too.....

The game is far too simple nowadays. There's no "mastering" the game, there's no incentive to get better. Playing with bad players is not my idea of a fun game experience.

Hewkii

Yah, I raided, I PvPed, I farmed like the rest of them.

In 2007 I did the same thing, 2008 the same, 2009 yep, I did the same.