Holy crap Mortal Kombat X is IMMENSE! slowclap* NetherRealm

Mortal Kombat's animations since MK9 are the opposite of "unnatural". For the most part they are rooted in motion captured performances instead of the japanese animation style of "frame/movement skipping" (for the lack of a better term) you see in most other fighters, including SF.

Not saying its better or worse, just that you are either used to it or not. It is very natural looking actually.

On the plus side.... Mortal Kombat and Injustice, for better or worse, do have the most dynamic and interactive stages in the 2D fighting game genre......

@Pikminmaniac:

Isn't street fighter just more complex........ I wouldn't call it deep.

Yeah, its harder to be a pro at Street Fighter.

I dont necessarily see why this is a good thing, but gamers do seem to love measuring their e-dicks according to how far they can get in games that lock end-game stuff behind massive learning curve spikes.
The harder it is to pull off something the better... I never understood this mentality tbh.

It's a great game and I'm glad I got the CE.

@Thunderdrone:

In DoA5 Vanilla they locked away one of the most powerful characters behind a "grind wall" you needed to get 300 titles to get her......

realising their mistake, for the next game they just decided to put the character behind a $5 pay wall.

@Lulu_Lulu: Who? Was it

?

@freedomfreak:

Don't you remember..... it was Alpha...... I managed to get like 200 titles before I just gave up.......

@Thunderdrone: what dnd style collectable mode? I didn't see that in the menus. I seen a lot of stuff for online only and didn't even see a tower section, plus less characters. I don't own the game and am genuinely curios. Can u please elaborate on the dnd style thing and is there an actual offline tower?

If so I may pick it up as mk9 was amazing on both ps3 and vita.

@Lulu_Lulu: Only played a little of DOA5 vanilla.

@freedomfreak:

I don't blame you..... it had a shitty tutorial..... you could only button mash for so long before you get bored.......

You don't happen to visit any DoA specific forums do you ?

@Lulu_Lulu: None at all :p

There's System Wars and... That sums it up.

@freedomfreak:

LoL.... I've been rubbing shoulders with the Pros over at Free Step Dodge.......

Its like being in GD.... except every topic is about DoA...... no talk of RPGs and Cutscenes.... :)

@Lulu_Lulu: Hmm.. Is there talk about Gamergate? That's about the only thing I see in GD.

@freedomfreak:

That stupid thread just won't go away.... its annoying.

And as for Free Step Dodge..... I didn't see any talk about anything else.... let alone gamer gate

@Thunderdrone:

Well I: am not purchasing. Just read that the tower mode is now called 'Living Tower' and is an ONLINE ONLY mode... screw that. So in a year when they cut the servers because population drops, then you don't even get to play the mode that doesn't require other people. Bullshit right there. Why must these devs put in Online requirements to single player modes? If anything they should update the tower if you are online but have an offline version by default if your not.

i DON'T have enough time to get through games like others here. My life prevents more than 1-2 hours game time a night so a game may take me months to beat, plus a large backlog. By the time I got to this that mode may not even exist anymore... Screw that.

Why is it not a deep fighting game?

If the only thing special about SF was the input complexity the games would have been exposed awhile ago, beyond the basic motions there is plenty to the fighting metagame as a whole between match ups, footsies, mind games, etc. Plus there are multiple characters in that game that are incredibly user friendly with their inputs -Ryu, Ken, Juri, etc, only real difficult command in that game that is universal is probably one frame links, and that I could see argued both ways.

MKX's Krypt is a cute mini-DnD style map where you move around to unlock art, music, fatalities, modifiers, etc and collect MK artifacts to access new areas with new stuff.

Its a glorified menu tbh, but a very charming distraction to **** around with in between tense maches. The attention to detail and love for the MK world comes through in a big bad way because of these little touches.

They didnt need to create these big, unique set pieces for you to "explore" and basically unlock stuff. But it says a lot about the team that they went through the trouble of dressing it up so nicely for you, in a genre that mostly neglects this extra stuff.

Huh?

There are plenty of Tower modes that have nothing to do with online. There are more offline towers than online ones, actually.

Living Towers is a separate thing altogether.

I didnt even touch this mode yet

@Thunderdrone:

Thanks for clearing that up. The krypt was in mk9 and was a cool feature. Looks about the same.

As for tower mode, when I was looking at screenshots and googleing about it, I couldn't find any mention of OFFline tower modes, only article after article on "Living tower modes" which made me think that's all that was there for tower modes. With the inclusion of OFFline "KLASSIC" tower mode, it is back on my radar again. Thank you.

I'm not knocking SF because of where it puts its priorities. I'm arguing against the idea that this is the only correct path fighters can take in order to be "top tier" or whatever the **** people call the Virtua Fighter/Street Fighter metagame.

Its not, and its a good thing that not all companies lock metagame stuff behind a huge skill level requirement. I'm happy it exists for that super small segment of enthusiasts that commited enough time and money to learn all that stuff, but games that welcome a larger number of people by lowering these skill caps should not be automatically disregarded as inferior for doing it.

No problem.

They even went through the trouble of making all the pre-match dialog encounter specific instead of random one-liners. Really cool.

Injects personality and helps us care for the characters.

Like I said I don't think what MK does is bad, but I also do get why one game gets more reverence. It's not incorrect to call what MK does from a fighting engine standpoint to be inferior, because it's accessibility isn't a product of it made frame linking easier, it made inputs easier, it made anything like that, it's no different than any other fighting game. The only thing it really did was shave off the richer aspects that other fighting games have, well shave off is the wrong term considering it wasn't until MK9 the series actually had a good fighting engine, but you get the point.

Lowering the skill floor isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if that's all you did that's not exactly special either. Bayonetta and Super Mario Sunshine are great examples of where the skill floor itself is lowered for a broader audience, while adding enough new wrinkles for the enthusiast to find how deep that system is. Mk9 and X mostly work in that frame work, but they are out classed as a fighting engine. And if you are into this genre, and you get how this genre works, you're going to end up appreciating that stuff more in the long run. It's no different than any other genre.

MK's entire premise to how it stacks against all the other fighters is gameplay per square inch, which if you're into judging your games that way, by me guest. But I give way more of a damn about the mechanics and the overall system, and in that regard I admire what Street Fighter does, what Virtua Fighter does, what Guilty Gear does, and as recent as Skull Girls does in comparison to MK. Shit I'll take DoA4 over MK9.

@jg4xchamp:

Because street fighter is about winning by taking away all your opponents options.

Its not exactly a proper Yomi enviroment.

Edit: its also a game were half of everything you're given is useless until you learn to weave into some convoluted cancel combo.

That's any fighting game is to find a way to take away their strengths, and punish them on gheir glaring weaknesses, and the last one is the most contrived ass complaint I've read. Plenty of moves I use for Juri are useful, and none of them require me to learn some convoluted ass combo. Maybe if I was going to Evo, but it goes without saying people at Evo are playing the game at a significantly higher level, which of course would be the ultimate argument for Street Fighter's depth, but I'm sure LolLululogic will come into play there as well.

@jg4xchamp:

Yes.... every fighting game except Smash, DoA and Killer Instinct...... these games are about winning despite your opponents options..... these are Yomi intensive games.

SF and Tekken are just a game of footsies..... one dude makes a mistake and the other punishes that mistake by yanking away all of his opponents autonomy, in Tekken its as simple as juggling.... in Street Fighter its getting a knock down and using an Option Select technique that beats Back Dashes, Reversals, Ultra Wake Ups, etc.... and following that up with a combo.

Thats what pros are doing at Evo..... its not a higher level of play.... its about exploiting the system to avoid executing any actual strategies.

When you compare a game with MKX with say, Killer Instinct, the amount of content in this makes KI seasons look pathetic. Season 1 and 2 are combined for $79.99 and is still less characters and costumes than what comes in MKX day one.

I haven't played MKX yet, but it seems like they did a good job with it. I'm looking forward to trying it really soon, but I'm more hyped to see SF5 action and hopefully we get that at e3.

Sadly, the game is kind of boring after a while (i admit, i don't own it since i'm waiting for a Komplete edition) i've been watching Arturo Sanchez and Justin Wong stream and while fun for some matches...i don't see myself playing it that much like i have done with BB, KOF XIII and SF4, honestly i rather buy a great figthing game that does the figthing right like UNIEL or Xrd than MKX no mather how many high production values it has.

Whats wrong with that screen?

Dante vs Deadpool > Eveything else

@iambatman7986:

And then putting it back down again after month once you've experienced all the content..... I mean all that's gonna be left is the gameplay....... which other games do so much better.

@Lulu_Lulu: That could very well be true, definitely not arguing it, but that can be said for most games really. I used to like MK in the arcades, but the last MK I played was MK3 so it's been many years since I've touched one. I won't buy MKX until a Komplete Edition comes out, but my cousin has it, so I'll try his copy out next time we have a get together.

My favorite fighters are SF and VF, all else pale in comparison to me.

@iambatman7986:

Even Smash ? :0

@Lulu_Lulu: I hang my head in shame, I forgot to include Smash. Please forgive me.

I think his point is that fighting mechanics are the most important things, but i little TLC in the non-gameplay elements would go a long way. Think of it this way, If you have a great director, they can usually take a pretty stupid concept of a movie and make it entertaining but at the end of the day, you would still be disappointed that the story was a bit irrelevant. With games, you could have amazing gameplay but a lackluster story, production values, etc... While the core game would be fun, the other neglected features can still negatively affect your gameplay experience.

A. KI is still a work in progress

B. The KI Complete Collection is $60

A. It's a very expensive "Work in progress" that has been released for 17 months and still only has 16 fighters. By the time this is a fully fledged game, it'll cost +$100.00 and still won't have more content than the competition.

B. https://store.xbox.com/en-US/Xbox-One/Bundle/Killer-Instinct-Complete-Collection/a2e59812-9cc7-488e-b37a-a43b1f0c4487 --------- $79.99 on the Xbox Marketplace

And I am aware that there is a cheaper version but why does it cost an extra $30 for the costumes and the old game that is 20 years old? It's a bad business model and I worry it will become the norm because people for some reason are just accepting this as okay.

I tried the demo for Season 1 and it just wasn't worth the money they wanted for characters that are to be released at some point during this season. Just me though, unfortunately.

A. Because it's being handled by a much smaller team compared to NRS that since taking over the game have been focusing on releasing 7 characters each month. You're making a baseless assumption that KI won't have more content then MKX, it could happen since there is A LOT of content the devs want to do but just don't have the time to do right now.

B. I'm looking at the game on my Xbox One store and the price is slashed down to $60

It's $20 extra if you want everything and you don't have to buy everything if you don't want to.

@iambatman7986:

Its okay Sweetness. Lulu forgiveth thine transgression

I should maybe make a different point. People do crap on Halo, but it doesn't matter in the end. Halo and CS will still live on side by side. The difference is that fighting games are on the edge of being niche, but shooters and RPGs aren't. The fighting game community should be more welcoming to people who play in the genre. Instead, many have this mentality that top tier fighting games like Street Fighter and Tekken are the only things that matter. That isn't healthy for the genre, and will only continue to push more people away from experiencing it.

@JangoWuzHere:

Exactly !!! :)

Actually when it comes to Fighting Game Enthusiasts theres a whole host of weird behavoir and mentality regarding how these games should be handled.

Yeah, but that's the internet in general.

It's not like Injustice wasn't at Evo, it's not like MK hasn't been at Evo, it's not like Smash isn't covered twice, it's not like Virtua Fighter isn't out right skipped while having a beautiful fighting engine. The elitists are elitists, but it's not as close minded as everyone reacts. That's the general gaming forum. I think saying one game should exist and have an audience vs this game is great are two different. The former is easily shown as not being an issue, the elitist comes for the latter. Which is a giant argument on the subjective quality of two games.

@jg4xchamp:

DoA wasn't at Evo........ :(

I mean how do Spammy NRS games make it to evo and the Yomi Intensive DoA doesn't ?

ITS NOT FAIR !!! it was at TFC and thats great but damn I feel like people are going to keep undermining it until it shows up in Evo.

You cannot compare a NRS game to a Capcom or Namco series. They all play differently. They may share some things in common, such as whiff punishing, anti airing, etc, but the core is different. Spam occurs when one player lacks the fundamentals to change up their playstyle and will continue to mash out 1 specific move, despite being punished over and over. You do not see that during high level play.

DoA is not that popular, so it's only natural to include a game like MKX which will have more entrants and viewers. MKX will be the biggest tournament game for NRS to date. Big tournaments such as ECT have already announced it as the main game over SFIV.

I for one, love MK, but MKX has turned out to be weird. Half of the cast has 50/50's and vortexes while the other half doesn't. It feels odd to me. It even has me looking forward to Tekken 7, SFV, and hopefully SCVI even more.

@intotheminx:

I don't know about that.... but I do know that Spanming Works in Injustice..... Pig of The Hut got pretty damn far thanks to his Zod...... who has every single type of Projectile for some reason.... green arrow and death stroke are a huge pain in the ass but you can win against them with.... say Aquaman or Even Doomsday...... but Zod is so fucking frustrating.

I mean if you give a character a high, low and air projectiles of varying speeds plus an Ex Version with short recovery frames then you're just begging people to abuse it and spam it at full screen distance.

How does NRS fix this ? By adding a Stamina bar. Doesn't even fix the problem

Has to do with audience man. It's like anything else, the game that draws the crowd is going to get a spot. I also think that in general some of the main pubs help fund stuff at Evo, so naturally more of an effort is made to get those games on. The pot is bigger, so it draws more players to play. etc.

DoA is generally appreciated enough from my understanding, just criticized because it's apparently really easy to exploit that entire system.

@jg4xchamp:

Its definitely not perfect but to exploit it you have to meet a few conditions......

Yeah conditions all the pro players are going to meet, because they are going to be playing that game at a high level.

@jg4xchamp:

Not exactly..... the stage you fight on is one of those conditions. infact its a big one...... and you know they always chose those randomly.....

The other condition is you need to spring it on them out of the blue...... which is kinda hard to do since the fear of being hit by this exploit far exceeds the risk their willing to take to use the exploit.

The other Condition is you need Phase 4...... shes not the only character who can do it but shes the best at it.

MKX is a great fighting game that I hate b/c I suck at it.

The one thing that is broken is the matchmaking or fight connections. Numerous times I went to the KOTH beginners lobby and could never join a game even when said game was available to join.

Then I'd do matchmaking and I'd get in some game with a dude that has 6k rep, 46 win streak, and plays like the computer AI on "**** you, you'll never win difficulty".

@mr_huggles_dog:

What exactly are you struggling with ? Is it stringing your combos together ? Fuzzy Guarding ? Getting past you opponents guard ?

I'm pretty sure someone here is eager to off tips to improve your game (if only because it boosts their ego)

Edit: I forgot... fuzzy guarding doesn't apply to 2D fighters.

The first part is a non issue given that they are pros, they naturally have an understanding of all the arenas, because it's part of what helps them stay competitive.

That exact thing you described is a part of mind games, which for whatever reason you like downplaying footsies as not strategy, when it absolutely is a viable, so that's a contrived ass duck. Don't know what Phase 4 is, don't really play DoA 5, only one I really got into was DoA4, and that games larger issue was that the counter system was overkill. Taking out any of the nuance of the combos. Regardless they'll play as Phase 4, and if she is that overpowered the entire competition will come down to people picking phase 4 or her out right being banned.

Regardless boring fighters with easy exploits aren't exactly unheard of on the Evo stage. The Killer Instinct tournament for instance was fucking boring and highlighted how unimpressive the fighting engine was, Injustice ultimately was better in year 2, as it wasn't Superman dictating the fight the video game this past year, but it was still fairly dull. But those games have the benefit of NRS and Warner spending some money and in general those franchises having a larger audience.

Dead or Alive popularity wise was WAY below Tekken, and maybe above Virtua Fighter? With a lot of the general opinion being "Oh, it's that titty game" unfair opinion, but that's always been there for that series. So you combine that with Tecmo not spending money because they poverty, and you get in general the community not digging the engine you get DoA5 not really there on the main stages. Although I thought Last Round would be up this year? Might be wrong on that one.