How and why does anyone think the PS5 is even remotely as capable as the Series X

How did this bit of nonsense take hold?

• At worst the Series X's fixed GPU is 18% more powerful than the PS5's variable GPU, at best it's 32%. This is the GPU difference of 1.5PS4 GPU's to 2PS4 GPU's in total compute.

• At worst the Series X CPU is 100Mhz faster, the best isn't known but I would wager it's 300-400Mhz.

• The Series X GPU has 16 more CU's, the intersection engines for Ray Tracing are tied to shader count which is directly related to CU's. This means in terms of physical hardware for RT the Series X GPU has 44% more hardware for the task in the die than the PS5.

• The Series X GPU has 18 additional ROP's, 1mb of additional L2 cache, and 64 more TMU's. Its texel and pixel fill rate capabilities are considerably higher.

• Memory bandwidth could be argued to the high heavens but I see the value in Microsoft's approach more than Sony's. Exceptionally high 560GB/s GDDR6 can feed priority access for things such as the GPU or the SSD while the more mundane such as CPU bandwidth, audio, the OS and other background functions can be perfectly handled by the 336GB/s DIMM's within the pool. That is the ailing of Sony's 448GB/s, its equal bandwidth for everything regardless of what it is. It will provide more than needed to what doesn't need it and not enough to what does.

• While the PS5 SSD on paper seems worlds apart the differences will be much less pronounced because of BCpack and Zlib compression which are used via the Velocity Architecture. Combined they're a much more adept method than Kraken in terms of compression and streaming. With them the Series X can store and has instantaneous access to 100-110GB's of data which can be supplied through the larger 320-bit bus nearly to the point of negligible difference with Sony's SSD.

I'm greatly struggling to see any real advantage to the PlayStation 5, I'm failing to see a more efficient system, I'm failing to see an ace in the hole. What I see is Sony putting too much work into the technology surrounding their SSD and too little in the subsystems surrounding it, and the rest of the system as a whole. The SSD is incredible but it's attached to something which simply isn't.

i have a nvme and i dont see a big difference compared to a ssd. same speeds despite it being 3gb/s

it wasnt the same as going from hdd to ssd.

also they need to bring back warhawk

It's not necessarily just the speed of the drives, it's how they interface with the rest of the system which really matters, what forms of compression and streaming they're using, how large the actual system bus is. As I said Sony's SSD is excellent, but the way and what it's interfacing with isn't so miraculous.

btw, my motherboard has something called intel optane memory. it basiclly works like ram or storing the stuff you use the most to boot it faster. i think these new consoles will have AMD's answer to that

While less capable, the specs are clearly "remotely" as capable. Give Cows all the shit you can give. But lets not misrepresent the facts. Next Gen looks closer than this current Gen was at any point.

In some ways yes, in other ways no. There's no getting around the RT capability difference, that's pretty stark. Also if you think 1 1/2 to 2 PS4 GPU's of difference is basically nothing then there's no helping you come to terms with what's being said.

@goldenelementxl: in actual GPU on average the XSX will have 25-30% in raw power. That is almost a extra PS4 Pro in performance.

@kazhirai:

The comparison is like RTX 2070 OC to 2230 Mhz with 448GB/s (note 1) memory bandwidth against MSI RTX 2080 Super Gaming X Trio with 496 GB/s memory bandwidth (note 2) .

Note 1. Needs special treatment e.g. heavy fusion link usage and respect CPU cache boundaries. PS5 GPU needs PS4 style heavy fusion link optimizations for optimal GPU access to memory bandwidth.

Note 2. The remaining 64 GB/s memory bandwidth for CPU. XSX can brute force like a similar spec gaming PC with RTX 2080 class GPU. PS5's CPU-to-GPU fusion link optimizations can benefit XSX.

MS designed XSX similar to gaming PC with PS4 style heavy fusion link optimization option. Might as well rename Xbox Series X as Xbox Surface PC.

@kazhirai:

It wasn’t the warriors,Ps butthurt fanboys did it

Sounds like the differences are world's apart. The differences has been bigger in the past. The original Xbox was like 3x more powerful, the PS2 had more and better games. The differences between the X1 and PS4 made me think we'd get almost different games, but basically it's just resolution on the X1 that's lower. They are using the same architecture, different approach this time as well, but the power difference is less. Both will do 4k 60fps with current gen tech. With full Ray tracing and other next gen tech we'll see locked 30fps anyways.

Being a close 2nd is still 2nd

#bothconsoles #allthepowerallthegames #winning

Tell that to the developers who are making games for next generation. Devs are the ones glowing over PS5 development advantages while XSX just seems like a simple power increase.

https://pureplaystation.com/developers-explain-why-ps5-ssd-is-going-to-be-a-game-changer/2020/03/

https://www.psu.com/news/ps5-devs-agree-sonys-new-hardware-is-a-beast-one-of-the-coolest-pieces-of-hardware-ever/

All the things you're speculating about will come down to the games, no?

You can project whatever you think with your limited knowledge about game development, but it's next gen development and it all comes down to what the developers do.

If you think a simple Tflop rating advantage is going to equal a instant win for XSX well...again just wait for the games.

Because ps5 players will be "in the matrix".

Seeing as you asked:

No GPU scales 100% perfectly, so the 18% advantage Series-X has theoretically will be lucky to get to 10% in the real world.

The CPU is only 100mhz faster with SMT enabled and 300mhz faster with it disabled, but with SMT adding 30% (using PC test results) developers would be stupid to not use it

We still don't know how much memory and CPU performance PS5's OS uses, Series-X looses a whole CPU core to the OS so if the rumours of PS5 being able to dump it's whole OS in to the stupid fast SSD when switching to a game are true then PS5 will have an extra core for gaming over Series-X.

The back end, Mark Cerny is absolutely correct when he said it's easier to keep a smaller amount of CU's busy with work then it is a load of them. CU's are always never 100% utilized which is why a-sync compute came around to use up them when the game wasn't.

Also relating the back end, fill rate, texel rate, texturing, geometry set-up is all likely to be faster on PS5 due to the higher clock speed .

The SSD can pull data in quick enough to enable a whole new method of culling, saving a huge chuck of objects being drawn outside of the players frustrum and freeing up a lot of resources. Series-X's SSD is NO WHERE CLOSE TO PS5's.....

Having to damage control because BASE PS5 isn't far off the ENHANCED next-gen Xbox is laughable as there IS a Series-S and people are going to look very silly when it releases at it's rumored 6tflops......only for Sony to release a 20tflop PS5 Pro a few years from now.

All I read was, “blah, blah, blah, I’m really scared of Sony right now.”

@scatteh316: Lol so Mark Cerny convinced you that having less CU's is better? Cool bro.

You think Sony is going to release a 20TF console 2yrs after the release of the PS5...

You are shook big time, I mean you're not taking the news that the SeX is more powerful very well :(

1. CPU game world simulation is independent from texture loading.

2. Contrary to Mark Cerny's only ALU increase with TFLOPS increase argument, XSX GPU's TFLOPS increase also scales TMU (Texture Mapper Unit), TFU (Texture Filter Unit), RT cores, and on-chip SRAM storage.

Microsoft's large scale game world simulation demonstrated via Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020.

Microsoft has Bing world map data which is second to Google world map data.

Cerny said the frequencies of the CPU and GPU are capped. Could that mean they can raise the cap if they determine real-world games don't stress the thermals as much as they anticipated?

1. Try overclocking RTX 2070 (TU106) at 2230Mhz (10.28 TFLOPS) with memory bandwidth and compared it against RTX 2080 Super with 12.147 TFLOPS and 496 GB/s memory bandwidth.

2. XSX GPU's TFLOPS 18% to 20% (note 1) increase is backed by 18% to 20% (note 1) Texture units increase which is then backed by 25% memory bandwidth increase.

3. Based on XSX's 2 weeks raw Gears 5 benchmark port results, XSX GPU rivals RTX 2080 class GPU, hence it's XSX's TFLOPS is scaling.

4. Microsoft can texture blending and image enhancing AI (compute) to enhance tiled resource loads. There are more TFLOPS for AI on XSX GPU.

XSX's SSD would need almost twice the time when compared PS5's SSD when loading similar texture size, XSX's hence predictive texture loads have to be slightly aggressive.

5. CPU gameworld simulation can operate independently from texture loads. Remember tiled resource functions.

6. PS4/XBO has higher async compute feed due to weaker CPU. On PCs with stronger CPU power, async compute feed has less gain.

----

Note 1, PS5 GPU with -2% clock speed throttle.

Mark Cerny's argument is correct for Vega 56 at 1710 Mhz vs Vega 64 at 1590 Mhz when both SKUs have the same front/back ends and memory bandwidth, but RDNA v2 56 CU scaled could be TU104 like version instead.

@CrumUnderMe: A new Warhawk would be welcome. Not Starhawk... but a proper Warhawk.

As for being on topic... I really don't care about the marginal power difference of the next gen systems. I'm still rocking my launch PS4 so buying a PS5 will be a massive leap. Considering the games running on my launch PS4 are already gorgeous... it's going to be pretty awesome seeing what's next.

Also... even if the next Xbox was as powerful as what the PS6 would be... I still wouldn't buy it. They don't have the games I like.

Games are the only thing that matters to me.

I just reach that bold part and is odvious you don't know shit,you analsis is based on the PS5 dropping to 9.2TF which will not happen,the PS5 runs all the time at 2.23ghz it has a power budget asing to it aloneside the CPU,so if the CPU needs more power, a 10% drop in power consumption not in performance will occur at worse, which will drop frequency by a few megahertz which will reduce performance slightly.

Some of you are truelly clueless about this.

That is some real premium nonsense. You believe in a rumor that gives games access to all 8 cores thus relinquishing the OS because of the SSD. Are you proof reading what you are writing?

That is false and was clearly stated not to be true in Mark Cerny's own words.

All I read was Tormentos saying "I'm not bothered because Sony will release a 20tflp console in a few years".

Just curious.....what are we afraid of again? Getting stuck in the "Matrix"? Photos of our ears getting leaked?

These technologies are not exclusive to the Series X. PS5 would be using technologies that would further improve its SSD just as the Series X. So, you can't trivialize the PS5 SSD because Series X is using this tech to compensate for its slower SSD performance.

I doubt either consoles can raise their frequencies at this moment.

Tormy didn't say that.

@Chutebox: Quite right, I stand corrected. Not even he is that misinformed.

Yup, crazy ass people haha

What I do like about what sony has done is with expandable memory MS seemed to have gone for only allowing their branded SSD which will be very costly.

The PS5 is a 9.2 TF console boosted to 10.3 TF's.

The 7nm process can only sustain speeds around 1.8 Ghz and 7nmE Process can sustain speeds up to 2 Ghz not above 2 Ghz. MS already told us XSX is 7nmEnhanced.

Unless the PS5 is built on the expensive and fairly new 7nm+ process those 2.23Ghz claims are not realistic.

I highly doubt the PS5 was designed around a different process than XSX. More likely both are probably built on the 7nmE process with 2 Ghz sustained clocks being the safe clock speeds for those GPU's.

GitHub was correct with their information. 9.2 TF's is likely the sustained output of PS5's GPU with it able to boost to 10.3 TF's when power allows.

We don't know if a repackaged NVMe drive is going to be very costly but a SSD that is at least 5.5GB/s is not going to be cheap.

🤣🤣🤣

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-specs-and-tech-that-deliver-sonys-next-gen-vision

All that is already know is not our fault that you don't want to read or worse want to pretend that you don't know to serve your biass self.😊

The controller supports hardware decompression for the industry-standard ZLIB, but also the new Kraken format from RAD Game Tools, which offers an additional 10 per cent of compression efficiency. The bottom line? 5.5GBs of bandwidth translates into an effective eight or nine gigabytes per second fed into the system. "By the way, in terms of performance, that custom decompressor equates to nine of our Zen 2 cores, that's what it would take to decompress the Kraken stream with a conventional CPU," Cerny reveals.

The customizaion is heavy,this machines will be more appart in loading speed than in power for sure,the PS5 is more than twice as fast.

Remember as well that while ssd had been for years on PC they are hold back by older hdd.

On PS5 that is not the case all games are made over a standard.

In the end sony will win as always. Because for one Sony will have ps now streaming off the SSD and have ps 1-ps5 games like game pass because they been working with micro to have xcloud. And all the exclusive on ps 5. Load faster as well. Plus Microsoft first games will be made with a hdd in mind to play on Xbox one x

@EG101: No, it's not. But keep saying that to further your little narrative.

@gifford38: Sony is gonna have XCloud? LOL

Name 1 other stock AMD GPU running above 2Ghz right now on a 7nmE process.

If you can I'll admit I'm wrong

One thing the PS4 is much more capable at than XB1X.............games :D

Who knows if that will repeat again, haha.

@gifford38: Its been a long time since I've seen a post like yours...literally everything you said was nonsense.

Have to ask....you on the bottle pal?

@EG101: the 5700xt has been overclocked to 2.2ghz without issues. There will be no problem to run the PS5 GPU at those speeds consistently if needed. Or else Cerny wouldn't have told devs that. But keeping the power consumption down if games don't utilize all the power is important, especially these days where the environment is so important. There is no point for the X1X to use 300watt running Netflix.

The small differences between these consoles isn't much to argue over. The X1 ran most games at 720 to 900p at 25-30fps, no Xbox fans complained then. Both these next gen consoles are impressive, but Sony looks like to have the best combination of power, innovation, and cost. People who really misses some pixels will have a gaming PC anyways.

@getyeryayasout:

Being a ps pro and xb1x owner hellblade(xb1x) looks better than god of war,FH4 is the best looking open world console exclusive(xb1x) and RDR2(xb1x)is the best looking multiplat

Gears 5 and metro exodus(xb1x) are as good if not better looking than God of war and HZD,

I cannot comment on death stranding visuals as I haven’t played it

All the games in this post are stunning and god of war HDR colours are stunning,but the blurry backgrounds hurt my eyes

Xbox Series X is more powerful than Playstation 5.

@Martin_G_N:

PS5's higher TFLOPS over RX-5700 didn't come with higher memory bandwidth.

Sony loaded Navi 10's existing 448 GB/s memory bandwidth with CPU which has 896 GFLOPS.

On PC, 128bit DDR4-3800 has 60 GB/s.

PS5 still has PS4 style conserve CPU's IO memory access programming regime while XSX can brute force like a comparable spec gaming PC.

Aiming for 120 fps would be like four times PS4 CPU memory access hit rates with 30 fps.

Yeah it's one of those things that a lot of my fellow PC brethren fail to grasp.

Having higher end technical graphics is great of course, not something I'd want to sacrifice at all. One of the reasons why I buy all multiplats for PC.

But Sonys 1st party employs some of the top talent in the industry, and gives them time to flex those skills. And I don't just mean "Oh yeah, they're very good", some of these guys are basically celebs in their respective fields, the guys who are teaching the rest of the industry how to do it.

Like for God of War, they had the best character/creature artist in the business, Rafael Grassetti, spend the better part of a year on Kratos alone. Then him and another dude nearly on his level, Glauco Longhi, split the bill on the rest of the characters/creatures. And they didn't go straight to digital modeling either, they took the film approach of working up clay maquettes first to truly nail their designs. That level of talent and those practices aren't commonplace in gaming at all, these are film industry standards.

And that's only one very specific aspect, much of their production is treated with the same level of care.

Again, not dismissing technical graphics, obviously very important as well. It's all a balance. But that top notch talent and attention to detail will always shine through.

PC has Fakefactory.

I think Sony is trying something new to advance games with minimal/no loading times. I think that's going to be their gimmick for the new gen. HOWEVER

They've obviously put a lot of R&D into that new SSD, it's a custom component and it's probably not cheap. Sony has to save costs, thus a less powerful GPU/CPU. I think Sony is trying really hard to release a $400 console or at best be $50 less expensive than the Series X.