how can consoles come from 60 frames 8 bit awesomeness to 30 frames poorness

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jhcho2

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#51 jhcho2
Member since 2004 • 5103 Posts

[QUOTE="HelloMoto56"]

i've debated this before but -

not all games benefit from 60 FPS believe it or not.

infact, some look better overall when locked at 30.

Gue1

Don't make me laugh dude... :lol:

He is actually right. This is something a lot of console boys do not know about because they never played around with settings before. But most hermits can tell you that you CAN'T run Crysis at 60fps without severely sacrificing something. You'll need to downgrade your resolution from 1920x1080 to 1280x720, and at the same time turn off AA to achieve 60fps. But if you can tolerate say...35-45 fps, you can keep all of those. And believe me, most people would rather do that.

And it's upsetting reading posts in threads like these. People always talk as if they know about framerates when they actually do not. Some people are even claiming that there isn't much difference between 60fps and 30fps. There is actually a HUGE difference between 60 and 30. It's just that if you end up getting 15fps, it becomes virtually less playable, so devs lock games at no less than 30fps, but that isn't saying that the difference between 60 and 30 is not so perceivable. It's very perceivable.

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Skittles_McGee

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#52 Skittles_McGee
Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"][QUOTE="HFkami"]

youre wrong like i said in pal regions were most games slower it wouldnt be the case if all the games would run on 30 frames

HFkami

I'd wager Teuf would know more about this than you do.

you would lost your money sry

I dunno, between someone who works for a game developer (Teuf) and some random person on a forum (you), I'd think Teuf is the safer wager when discussing how games run.

Call me crazy though.

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Skittles_McGee

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#53 Skittles_McGee
Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

most people probably cant tell the difference between 30 anf 60 fps.

what they do notice is the slowdown... if you hit a large area and your fps halves the drop from 30 to 15 is alot more noticeable than the drop form 60 to 30.

I doubt most the gamers here would be able to tell the difference between a game running at a consistent 30fps and a consistent 60fps.

most people can tell, they just dont know why the game feels smoother.

yes but that smoother feeling could likely be the result of less noticeable fps drops. At 30 fps... even just a 5-10 drop is quite noticeable. Thats really the only time i have been able to notice the difference, is when there is slowdown.

Not really. You can definitely tell the difference. An animation in 60FPS shows more frames, so it appears more fluid since there's less frames of it being skipped as there are with 30FPS.
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SilverChimera

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#54 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"][QUOTE="HFkami"]

youre wrong like i said in pal regions were most games slower it wouldnt be the case if all the games would run on 30 frames

HFkami

I'd wager Teuf would know more about this than you do.

you would lost your money sry

I'm just gonna sit back and laugh.
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SilverChimera

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#55 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"] I'd wager Teuf would know more about this than you do.Skittles_McGee

you would lost your money sry

I dunno, between someone who works for a game developer (Teuf) and some random person on a forum (you), I'd think Teuf is the safer wager when discussing how games run.

Call me crazy though.

Gtho, you're being crazy. Random SW poster #2238934 knows more than a developer. Get your **** together.
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SilverChimera

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#56 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
Why are console games running at resolutions lower than 10 year old pc games? SAGE_OF_FIRE
Because theres a cost for the games looking better than those 10 year old PC games.
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Skittles_McGee

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#57 Skittles_McGee
Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts
[QUOTE="SilverChimera"][QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"]

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

you would lost your money sry

I dunno, between someone who works for a game developer (Teuf) and some random person on a forum (you), I'd think Teuf is the safer wager when discussing how games run.

Call me crazy though.

Gtho, you're being crazy. Random SW poster #2238934 knows more than a developer. Get your **** together.

I may as well just call it quits :(
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markinthedark

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#58 markinthedark
Member since 2005 • 3676 Posts

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"] most people can tell, they just dont know why the game feels smoother. Skittles_McGee

yes but that smoother feeling could likely be the result of less noticeable fps drops. At 30 fps... even just a 5-10 drop is quite noticeable. Thats really the only time i have been able to notice the difference, is when there is slowdown.

Not really. You can definitely tell the difference. An animation in 60FPS shows more frames, so it appears more fluid since there's less frames of it being skipped as there are with 30FPS.

dont tell me i can tell the difference. As i most certainly cant, ive tested it before :P

maybe alot of people can actually tell the difference.. but im sure some people out there probably base their opinion off of fps drops... because i definitely notice the difference in that regard... and its a good argument for aiming for 60fps instead of 30.

and i will throw this little possibility into the discussion....

there are plenty of people online that swear a $100 HDMI monster cable produces a better quality image than their old $3 bargain bin HDMI cable (check reviews online). I remember seeing some guy say he even brought over his neighbor and plugged in his old crappy cable, then the new monster cable to test the difference... and they could both totally see the improvement in picture quality even though its scientifically impossible to increase the quality of a digital image with a cable.

Expectations can mess with your head and possibly distort your view.... while i dont doubt some people can tell the difference in scenarios like quickly panning your view in an FPS that doesnt have motion blur... i dont think the difference between 30fps and 60fps is as night and day as some make it out to be.

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Skittles_McGee

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#59 Skittles_McGee
Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

yes but that smoother feeling could likely be the result of less noticeable fps drops. At 30 fps... even just a 5-10 drop is quite noticeable. Thats really the only time i have been able to notice the difference, is when there is slowdown.

Not really. You can definitely tell the difference. An animation in 60FPS shows more frames, so it appears more fluid since there's less frames of it being skipped as there are with 30FPS.

dont tell me i can tell the difference. As i most certainly cant, ive tested it before :P

maybe alot of people can actually tell the difference.. but im sure some people out there probably base their opinion off of fps drops... because i definitely notice the difference in that regard... and its a good argument for aiming for 60fps instead of 30.

and i will throw this little possibility into the discussion....

there are plenty of people online that swear a $100 HDMI monster cable produces a better quality image than their old $3 bargain bin HDMI cable (check reviews online). I remember seeing some guy say he even brought over his neighbor and plugged in his old crappy cable, then the new monster cable to test the difference... and they could both totally see the improvement in picture quality even though its scientifically impossible to increase the quality of a digital image with a cable.

Expectations can mess with your head and possibly distort your view.... while i dont doubt some people can tell the difference in scenarios like quickly panning your view in an FPS that doesnt have motion blur... i dont think the difference between 30fps and 60fps is as night and day as some make it out to be.

But this is nothing like cables. There are literally more frames being shown at 60FPS than there are 30FPS. There is actually a difference. A digital cable either works or doesn't. It's a static value. Framerate is not a static value. It changes. And one can certainly see a difference between 60 and 30. How do I know? I played DMC4 on the PC, and found out later on that cutscenes were way higher than 60FPS (which the game normally runs at). Before I knew the exact number, I could certainly tell the framerate was higher because I could see more of the animations, they were more fluid. Think about this from a logical perspective. When a character does an animation, there are frames. Each frame is a part of the animation. The more frames you're showing in a single second, the less the animation "skips" (i.e. part of the character jumps from one point in space to the other). You see more of the animation's frames, and thus it looks more fluid.
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markinthedark

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#60 markinthedark
Member since 2005 • 3676 Posts

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] Not really. You can definitely tell the difference. An animation in 60FPS shows more frames, so it appears more fluid since there's less frames of it being skipped as there are with 30FPS.Skittles_McGee

dont tell me i can tell the difference. As i most certainly cant, ive tested it before :P

maybe alot of people can actually tell the difference.. but im sure some people out there probably base their opinion off of fps drops... because i definitely notice the difference in that regard... and its a good argument for aiming for 60fps instead of 30.

and i will throw this little possibility into the discussion....

there are plenty of people online that swear a $100 HDMI monster cable produces a better quality image than their old $3 bargain bin HDMI cable (check reviews online). I remember seeing some guy say he even brought over his neighbor and plugged in his old crappy cable, then the new monster cable to test the difference... and they could both totally see the improvement in picture quality even though its scientifically impossible to increase the quality of a digital image with a cable.

Expectations can mess with your head and possibly distort your view.... while i dont doubt some people can tell the difference in scenarios like quickly panning your view in an FPS that doesnt have motion blur... i dont think the difference between 30fps and 60fps is as night and day as some make it out to be.

But this is nothing like cables. There are literally more frames being shown at 60FPS than there are 30FPS. There is actually a difference. A digital cable either works or doesn't. It's a static value. Framerate is not a static value. It changes. And one can certainly see a difference between 60 and 30. How do I know? I played DMC4 on the PC, and found out later on that cutscenes were way higher than 60FPS (which the game normally runs at). Before I knew the exact number, I could certainly tell the framerate was higher because I could see more of the animations, they were more fluid. Think about this from a logical perspective. When a character does an animation, there are frames. Each frame is a part of the animation. The more frames you're showing in a single second, the less the animation "skips" (i.e. part of the character jumps from one point in space to the other). You see more of the animation's frames, and thus it looks more fluid.

that is probably the animation itself though and completely independent of the framerate. Some games have smoother animations than others while playing at the same framerate.

and yes its completely logical to think 60fps would be smoother than 30fps.... and its completely logical to think 2000fps would be smoother than 1000fps. But it doesnt change the case of perceptions vs reality. With most games having some form of motion blur i am guessing the actual difference isnt quite as noticeable as the perceived difference. Which isnt to say there is no difference.... just maybe not to the extent some make it out to be.

the placebo effect isnt restricted only to medication, our perceptions often like to meet our expectations... even if it isnt always the case.

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HFkami

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#61 HFkami
Member since 2009 • 855 Posts

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"] I'd wager Teuf would know more about this than you do.Skittles_McGee

you would lost your money sry

I dunno, between someone who works for a game developer (Teuf) and some random person on a forum (you), I'd think Teuf is the safer wager when discussing how games run.

doesnt mean he cant be wrong in something

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Androvinus

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#62 Androvinus
Member since 2008 • 5796 Posts
there are some games at 30fps that run smoothly and you cant tell whether it runs at 60 or 30. However there are some games that run at 30 that are quite choppy. And if a game only has a 30fps version, then you cant compare it to a completely different games framerate.
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LegatoSkyheart

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#63 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

8 bit games had poor frame rate too.

Ex. Megaman 2

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htekemerald

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#64 htekemerald
Member since 2004 • 7325 Posts

Hopefully nextgen consoles will move on from the 30fps slideshow.

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Teuf_

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#65 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts

120 Hz was the standard until we switched to LCD monitors

HFkami



Most CRT's topped out at around 80-85Hz before LCD's started becoming popular.

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Teuf_

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#66 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts

Why are console games running at resolutions lower than 10 year old pc games? SAGE_OF_FIRE


Because overall image/pixel quality is more important than simply having more pixels. Most PC gamers run their games at the native res of the monitor, because upscaling looks terrible on PC monitors (especially when you're sitting right in front of it). On a TV when you're sitting a few feet away it doesn't look nearly so bad, so it makes more sense to target a lower resolution and do some cooler per-pixel stuff.

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deactivated-5d6e91f5c147a

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#67 deactivated-5d6e91f5c147a
Member since 2008 • 26108 Posts

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"]

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

you would lost your money sry

HFkami

I dunno, between someone who works for a game developer (Teuf) and some random person on a forum (you), I'd think Teuf is the safer wager when discussing how games run.

doesnt mean he cant be wrong in something

Doesn't mean you're right in something.
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deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab

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#68 deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab
Member since 2008 • 17476 Posts

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

120 Hz was the standard until we switched to LCD monitors

Teufelhuhn



Most CRT's topped out at around 80-85Hz before LCD's started becoming popular.

I had an old CRT that had 150hz at 1024x768

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SparkyProtocol

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#69 SparkyProtocol
Member since 2009 • 7680 Posts
Why are console games running at resolutions lower than 10 year old pc games? SAGE_OF_FIRE
Because 10 year old PCs can run Half Life 2 at 1080p right
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nhh18

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#70 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

60 frames 8 Bit :D. Don't get me started about how slow 8bit and 16bit generation was fps.

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deactivated-5d6e91f5c147a

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#71 deactivated-5d6e91f5c147a
Member since 2008 • 26108 Posts
[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"]Why are console games running at resolutions lower than 10 year old pc games? SparkyProtocol
Because 10 year old PCs can run Half Life 2 at 1080p right

Well with a little help with Mr. Mods.