How can JRPGs improve?

Instead of how they can improve, I think this topic has changed into what users prefer :?

Anyway, let the argument between "choose your own adventure books" versus "regular narrative books" continue. :P

Instead of how they can improve, I think this topic has changed into what users prefer :?

Anyway, let the argument between "choose your own adventure books" versus "regular narrative books" continue. :P

hayato_

TheGrayEye: I am not trying to put you down or fight you or antagonize you. My advice to shut the hell up until you knew more was well-meant. There are many issues in anime and weaknesses in the format, but lack of variety is not one of them. If you wish to criticize it, it's better to be familiar with it. Lest you think that Yangire is BSing you with arthouse anime, allow me to present other, more familiar anime fare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xco-508zimY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q6mcx2qF4Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnMayrnrDTk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zDfxZ4NcE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxY0ALI7izo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GRsQuB6kRQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp_SyPIT5uU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5oniErmeuE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLL4P5OihPoroxlimn

My point still stands. Almost all of them still had many of traits I described, such as the same big eyes, the same little mouth, upturned noses, unrealistic hair styles, overly dramatic acting/emotions, touches of melodrama (especially with music), and color stream backgrounds.

They're not all EXACTLY the same (mainly because they have different genre settings and time periods), but lets face it, it's unrealistic to match them against the west, where our culture and art styles (as well as music styles) is basically one big melting pot that includes minds from both America, and Europe. It can't match the variety we have here.

TheGrayEye: You are absolutely wrong. Watch the videos I posted. Count the number of unrealistic hair styles. In fact, even anime with purple hair and spiky styles are not unnecessarily unrealistic. Such styles are not common in the West, but they're common in Japan. I mean, seriously dude. I posted the links already. The least you could do was watch them.roxlimn

I enjoyed them, and some great animation too. I always like the coloring style for this anime, I think they pulled it off really well.

Anyways some people just like westren art, its something I can apprecaite but its too unstructured for me, and dealing with disproportion is always a struggle with me. The manga art is more structured and some people may not like that.

I want JRPG's to have moral choices and player defined character interactions like Mass effect and fallout, It's not that I don't like linear narrative, but I love RPGs where you'r games story is truely unique.

I want JRPG's to have moral choices and player defined character interactions like Mass effect and fallout, It's not that I don't like linear narrative, but I love RPGs where you'r games story is truely unique.

deangallop

JRPG Art Styles, characters and enviroments ... but with WRPG gameplay. Bioware is an example of good rpg direciton .... but lack secrets/enviroments and character designs (Mass Effect being the only exception to this rule).Birdy09

TheGrayEye: You are absolutely wrong. Watch the videos I posted. Count the number of unrealistic hair styles. In fact, even anime with purple hair and spiky styles are not unnecessarily unrealistic. Such styles are not common in the West, but they're common in Japan. I mean, seriously dude. I posted the links already. The least you could do was watch them.roxlimn

Lol, okay I'm willing to discuss this, but I'm not going to go as far as to "count the number of unrealistic hair styles". If you can't see a connection between the things I listed, and how that coincides with my opinon and view of it, then you're just playing dumb with me. Even the Kiki delivery thing you just posted has these traits, and it is what kills me the most about anime. I used to love anime, but then these traits became extremely apparent to me, and now I can no longer enjoy it. From what I've seen so far in here, none of it still comes close to say, Fantasia- specifically the Sorcerer's Apprentice, or especially Night on Bald Mountain, which are iconic classics.

The fact that we've stopped talking about Final Fantasy's vision, kind of says something...

[QUOTE="spinecaton"]

[QUOTE="roxlimn"] Such sentiments only reflect that people who may have once played JRPGs have become more insecure about their maturity and want JRPGs to distance themselves from what they once were so they can continue to enjoy it without feeling like they're playing a child's game. There are some benefits to catering to such feelings to inadequacy, but it's ultimately a more limited market.roxlimn

I am sorry, but as I grew up I become more interested in mature stories and news. While I have no problem playing games like the Tales of series or watching cartoons, they do not have the same spark as they use to. So you don't really need to talk about insecurity, because that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I like more mature games because it is easier for me to relate and understand the complexity of the content, while other games that cater to a younger audience I just find them childish/simplified and cannot relate to the characters any longer.

Fact: The Ultima series dealt with mature themes before the first JRPG was even made.

Did you play Mass Effect 2? In fact FFVII fell flat on its face when trying to discuss serious issues, unlike FFVI Take Jacks storyline in ME2 for instance, or Mordins...Ore Tali's......pretty mature In fact, having sex with Jack right away breaks the relationship, unlike building a relationship.

Fact: The Ultima series dealt with mature themes before the first JRPG was even made.

texasgoldrush

Yes, I have. In fact, I completed it multiple times over on multiple difficulty levels. Sex is a topic for teens and maybe young tweeners. It's not particularly mature. Mordin's story was the best of the bunch, but it was too obviously trying to press your buttons with a hot topic issue, and the way it's told is pretty hamhanded. I could practically taste the morality they were pushing. Tali's mission was worse. All told, Shepard isn't a very complex character and he doesn't deal with very complex issues.

Without the explicit sex, ME is easily a game that could be played, understood, and appreciated by an 8 year old. Heck, he'll probably appreciate it if you left the sex in.

TheGrayEye:

Kiki's Delivery Service has which traits? Small mouths? Doesn't seem like it. Eyes are big, but there's no fighting. No melodrama. No, well, much much everything you said.

Again, I recommend watching before commenting. That anime is about people having magic in an otherwise technological world, and there's not a single hairstyle in it that's weirdly colored or styled.

Neither Emma: A Victorian Romance, nor Starblazers, nor even Full Metal Alchemist sports humans with outlandish hairstyles, even though FMA is about as shonen as they come. FMA has fantastic, detailed fights scenes. So does Cowboy Bebop. You can even tell which style Spike is using. There is no discussion to be had here. You are in the wrong about anime. I am telling you about it, not opening discussion as to whether or not you have a point. You don't. Watch more anime. Watch better anime.

From what I've seen so far in here, none of it still comes close to say, Fantasia- specifically the Sorcerer's Apprentice, or especially Night on Bald Mountain, which are iconic classics. The fact that we've stopped talking about Final Fantasy's vision, kind of says something... TheGrayEye

I don't like The Sorcerer's Apprentice. The protagonist's eyes are too big and his mouth is too small. Also, there's too much melodrama between him and the Sorcerer. Okay, that was a joke. I like SA just fine, but classics that these three are few and far between. I can appreciate the old Disney cartoons as much as the next guy, but the range was limited. It's not particularly telling that we're no longer talking about FF. You don't like FF. We get that. FF is not the end-all be-all of JRPGs, and it's certainly not representative of anime. In fact, it's not even the most popular JRPG in Japan. That would be Dragon Quest.

With the exception of Miranda and Jack's renegade option...the other romances do not end in sex. And except for Jacks case, the sex is never explicit. Its really not a major part of the game, much less so than Dragon Age. Moridn's quest doesn't have an easy decision, Tali's and Kasumi's as well. Many times, the lower option may very well be the more right option morally, especially in Kasumi's case. ME2 is not convoluted....deep and rich, but understandable, which is a good thing.

And JRPGs are known for forcing their themes, even one my fave's Suikoden II is guilty of this from time to time. Xenogears, check, the FF games, check....they are far worse than the Mass Effect series.

In fact, what you criticize ME2 for, the forcing of its moral themes, I can apply to almost every single JRPG, ususally far worse.

Get rid of the tedious repetitive gameplay. There is nothing fun about grinding. Or the stale turn based stuff.

With the exception of Miranda and Jack's renegade option...the other romances do not end in sex. And except for Jacks case, the sex is never explicit. Its really not a major part of the game, much less so than Dragon Age. Moridn's quest doesn't have an easy decision, Tali's and Kasumi's as well. Many times, the lower option may very well be the more right option morally, especially in Kasumi's case. ME2 is not convoluted....deep and rich, but understandable, which is a good thing.

And JRPGs are known for forcing their themes, even one my fave's Suikoden II is guilty of this from time to time. Xenogears, check, the FF games, check....they are far worse than the Mass Effect series.

In fact, what you criticize ME2 for, the forcing of its moral themes, I can apply to almost every single JRPG, ususally far worse.

texasgoldrush

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

Mass Effect has a much more serious and detailed vision. It's a unique look based on a many bits of inspiration from Science-fiction cinema, and it adds up to something fresh and captivating. Look at the Omega station from Mass Effect 2 for example, it's oozing with atmosphere at the seams. Every little design and sound effect in the ambience adds up to it's vision. Even the lighting, with it's neat lens flare and film grain effects, add to the experience.

I haven't really seen anything from JRPGs that can compete with the vision, for the most part, it just feels like the same rehashed anime style.

TheGrayEye

All the character designs in Mass Effect look bland to me, nothing really separates itself from any other sort of Sci-fi movie/video game. Also, one other thing, do you really think all anime looks alike? It seems like you think that anime has some sort of preset look to it.

Look at this, this, and this, and just tell me they look the same.

The first two are different from normal anime, but the third is less unique, and still has some of those anime traits (big eyes, small mouth). It has lots of outlandish variations of animals, and that's fine for what it is. I even took a glance though, at the related vidoes next to it (the 3rd one), and I saw the generic anime stuff (pink hair, big eyes, small mouth...).

Sure you could find more obscure animes and short films out there, but my point still stands, that in gaming, I haven't seen the anime ****look as fresh and captivating as games like Mass Effect and Bioshock.

You act like Bioshock and Mass Effect have unique artsty1e, it's all the same pseudo-realistic bull.

If you don't like the cliched anime look that's fine, your just not used to it or it's just not your taste.

Less bleh stories and less similarities between each other.

Ive felt like Ive played many JRPGs a couple of time before.

Less bleh stories and less similarities between each other.

Ive felt like Ive played many JRPGs a couple of time before.

Shirokishi_

[QUOTE="Ibacai"][QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

I used to watch lots of anime when I was younger, then I got older and realized how repetive and lame it is. In every anime that I can recall watching, they all made the same overly-expressive sounds, especially the women. Also, they almost always have the same nose and mouth. Not to mention the style of the fighting is incredibly similar to one another (character running in place with stream of color around him in the background).

TheGrayEye

You can pull out as many animes as you like, but it wont change my perspective that the things I said are extremely common in most of them. I'm no anime expert, but as I've said, in gaming specifically, I haven't really seen anything with as good as Mass Effect's, or especially Bioshock's vision. Usually Japanese stuff is very outlandish, and in that outlandish-ness and melodrama, it forms something repetitive.

Kiki's Delivery Service has which traits? Small mouths? Doesn't seem like it. Eyes are big, but there's no fighting. No melodrama. No, well, much much everything you said.

Again, I recommend watching before commenting. That anime is about people having magic in an otherwise technological world, and there's not a single hairstyle in it that's weirdly colored or styled.

Neither Emma: A Victorian Romance, nor Starblazers, nor even Full Metal Alchemist sports humans with outlandish hairstyles, even though FMA is about as shonen as they come. FMA has fantastic, detailed fights scenes. So does Cowboy Bebop. You can even tell which style Spike is using. There is no discussion to be had here. You are in the wrong about anime. I am telling you about it, not opening discussion as to whether or not you have a point. You don't. Watch more anime. Watch better anime.

I don't like The Sorcerer's Apprentice. The protagonist's eyes are too big and his mouth is too small. Also, there's too much melodrama between him and the Sorcerer. Okay, that was a joke. I like SA just fine, but classics that these three are few and far between. I can appreciate the old Disney cartoons as much as the next guy, but the range was limited. It's not particularly telling that we're no longer talking about FF. You don't like FF. We get that. FF is not the end-all be-all of JRPGs, and it's certainly not representative of anime. In fact, it's not even the most popular JRPG in Japan. That would be Dragon Quest.

roxlimn

Okay, now I know you're just playing dumb.

Huge eyes, check. Tiny anime nose, check. Overly-expressive (giant red bow, funny look marks on cheeks like she scratched by something), check. Same mouth shape, check. V-shaped chin identical to almost all anime characters, check.

Even better, here, take a look at this. Go through about eight or so pages, and if you don't see the reoccuring design and repetitive nature that I'm talking about (aka, the reason I don't like anime), then you need new glasses.

texasgoldrush: PS. There is sex involved with Jack's paragon option, Miranda, and Tali as well, I believe.roxlimn

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]

Kiki's Delivery Service has which traits? Small mouths? Doesn't seem like it. Eyes are big, but there's no fighting. No melodrama. No, well, much much everything you said.

Again, I recommend watching before commenting. That anime is about people having magic in an otherwise technological world, and there's not a single hairstyle in it that's weirdly colored or styled.

Neither Emma: A Victorian Romance, nor Starblazers, nor even Full Metal Alchemist sports humans with outlandish hairstyles, even though FMA is about as shonen as they come. FMA has fantastic, detailed fights scenes. So does Cowboy Bebop. You can even tell which style Spike is using. There is no discussion to be had here. You are in the wrong about anime. I am telling you about it, not opening discussion as to whether or not you have a point. You don't. Watch more anime. Watch better anime.

I don't like The Sorcerer's Apprentice. The protagonist's eyes are too big and his mouth is too small. Also, there's too much melodrama between him and the Sorcerer. Okay, that was a joke. I like SA just fine, but classics that these three are few and far between. I can appreciate the old Disney cartoons as much as the next guy, but the range was limited. It's not particularly telling that we're no longer talking about FF. You don't like FF. We get that. FF is not the end-all be-all of JRPGs, and it's certainly not representative of anime. In fact, it's not even the most popular JRPG in Japan. That would be Dragon Quest.

TheGrayEye

Okay, now I know you're just playing dumb.

Huge eyes, check. Tiny anime nose, check. Overly-expressive (giant red bow, funny look marks on cheeks like she scratched by something), check. Same mouth shape, check. V-shaped chin identical to almost all anime characters, check.

Even better, here, take a look at this. Go through about eight or so pages, and if you don't see the reoccuring design and repetitive nature that I'm talking about (aka, the reason I don't like anime), then you need new glasses.

So your complaining because the characters fit in a certain artsty1e? It's like saying all minimalistic art is the same because.. It's minimalistic.

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

All the character designs in Mass Effect look bland to me, nothing really separates itself from any other sort of Sci-fi movie/video game. Also, one other thing, do you really think all anime looks alike? It seems like you think that anime has some sort of preset look to it.

Look at this, this, and this, and just tell me they look the same.

Yangire

The first two are different from normal anime, but the third is less unique, and still has some of those anime traits (big eyes, small mouth). It has lots of outlandish variations of animals, and that's fine for what it is. I even took a glance though, at the related vidoes next to it (the 3rd one), and I saw the generic anime stuff (pink hair, big eyes, small mouth...).

Sure you could find more obscure animes and short films out there, but my point still stands, that in gaming, I haven't seen the anime ****look as fresh and captivating as games like Mass Effect and Bioshock.

You act like Bioshock and Mass Effect have unique artsty1e, it's all the same pseudo-realistic bull.

If you don't like the cliched anime look that's fine, your just not used to it or it's just not your taste.

Wait. What? I would LOVE to know how Bioshock is "all the same pseudo-realistic bull" (I even googled imaged pseudo-realistic- nothing Bioshock looking). Please, show me another setting that has the same vision as Bioshock, aka a futuristic underwater art deco filled city, cause I can't think of any. You must not have even played the game, or maybe you're thinking of another game.

I remember this artstyle, when JRPGs were at there hieght

Now we have crappy anime....

Anime in itself is not bad, Grave of the Fireflies for example, its the cliches that are bothersome..its all Robot Princess Bubblegum mostly. Thi shas really trickled down into JRPGs.

The only series that I see where the anime is good is the Suikoden series, namely Suikoden II........that games storyline is either cliche busting or cliche subverting. It does bring the innocence of the children being used in warfare.

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

The first two are different from normal anime, but the third is less unique, and still has some of those anime traits (big eyes, small mouth). It has lots of outlandish variations of animals, and that's fine for what it is. I even took a glance though, at the related vidoes next to it (the 3rd one), and I saw the generic anime stuff (pink hair, big eyes, small mouth...).

Sure you could find more obscure animes and short films out there, but my point still stands, that in gaming, I haven't seen the anime ****look as fresh and captivating as games like Mass Effect and Bioshock.

TheGrayEye

You act like Bioshock and Mass Effect have unique artsty1e, it's all the same pseudo-realistic bull.

If you don't like the cliched anime look that's fine, your just not used to it or it's just not your taste.

Wait. What? I would LOVE to know how Bioshock is "all the same pseudo-realistic bull" (I even googled imaged pseudo-realistic- nothing Bioshock looking). Please, show me another setting that has the same vision as Bioshock, aka a futuristic underwater art deco filled city, cause I can't think of any. You must not have even played the game, or maybe you're thinking of another game.

No, I'm thinking of Bioshock and I have played it, we're talking about character designs here and Bioshock tries to have realistic character designs. Nothings creative about making characters look like actual people, to me.

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]

Kiki's Delivery Service has which traits? Small mouths? Doesn't seem like it. Eyes are big, but there's no fighting. No melodrama. No, well, much much everything you said.

Again, I recommend watching before commenting. That anime is about people having magic in an otherwise technological world, and there's not a single hairstyle in it that's weirdly colored or styled.

Neither Emma: A Victorian Romance, nor Starblazers, nor even Full Metal Alchemist sports humans with outlandish hairstyles, even though FMA is about as shonen as they come. FMA has fantastic, detailed fights scenes. So does Cowboy Bebop. You can even tell which style Spike is using. There is no discussion to be had here. You are in the wrong about anime. I am telling you about it, not opening discussion as to whether or not you have a point. You don't. Watch more anime. Watch better anime.

I don't like The Sorcerer's Apprentice. The protagonist's eyes are too big and his mouth is too small. Also, there's too much melodrama between him and the Sorcerer. Okay, that was a joke. I like SA just fine, but classics that these three are few and far between. I can appreciate the old Disney cartoons as much as the next guy, but the range was limited. It's not particularly telling that we're no longer talking about FF. You don't like FF. We get that. FF is not the end-all be-all of JRPGs, and it's certainly not representative of anime. In fact, it's not even the most popular JRPG in Japan. That would be Dragon Quest.

Yangire

Okay, now I know you're just playing dumb.

Huge eyes, check. Tiny anime nose, check. Overly-expressive (giant red bow, funny look marks on cheeks like she scratched by something), check. Same mouth shape, check. V-shaped chin identical to almost all anime characters, check.

Even better, here, take a look at this. Go through about eight or so pages, and if you don't see the reoccuring design and repetitive nature that I'm talking about (aka, the reason I don't like anime), then you need new glasses.

So your complaining because the characters fit in a certain artsty1e? It's like saying all minimalistic art is the same because.. It's minimalistic.

My point all along is that it's not original, it's been done to death. I want to see games with more original and well-thought out sty1es, like Mass Effect, Bioshock, Team Fortress 2, or even games that utilize real-world underused art directions, such as Assassins Creed 2.

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]texasgoldrush: PS. There is sex involved with Jack's paragon option, Miranda, and Tali as well, I believe.texasgoldrush

How about stories and characters that aren't cookie cutter copies from other games, and less annoying monologues and melodrama, and maybe clean up the mechanics so they actually make sense?

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

Okay, now I know you're just playing dumb.

Huge eyes, check. Tiny anime nose, check. Overly-expressive (giant red bow, funny look marks on cheeks like she scratched by something), check. Same mouth shape, check. V-shaped chin identical to almost all anime characters, check.

Even better, here, take a look at this. Go through about eight or so pages, and if you don't see the reoccuring design and repetitive nature that I'm talking about (aka, the reason I don't like anime), then you need new glasses.

TheGrayEye

So your complaining because the characters fit in a certain artsty1e? It's like saying all minimalistic art is the same because.. It's minimalistic.

My point all along is that it's not original, it's been done to death. I want to see games with more original and well-thought out sty1es, like Mass Effect, Bioshock, Team Fortress 2, or even games that utilize real-world underused art directions, such as Assassins Creed 2.

You having a lack of experience with the artsty1e makes something that is different look the same. Just like how someone can listen to death metal and think it all sounds the same when fans find great differences.

If you actually took the time to look into anime/manga/the cliched "anime artsty1e" you would easily find differences between characters and mangaka.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="roxlimn"]texasgoldrush: PS. There is sex involved with Jack's paragon option, Miranda, and Tali as well, I believe.roxlimn

TheGrayEye: The eyes on Kiki are not materially larger than eyes typically drawn on young characters. You must remember than Kiki is a pre-adolescent girl. Nose is small, but this is not uniform in anime. Red bow is not a mark of character expression. That's costume design. The red marks on her cheeks are symbolic representations of strong emotion. Those are necessary in minimalist animation design. This is not overly-expressive either. Chin has a rounded shape, not V-shaped. This is not identical to "almost all anime characters." Again, check your sources. [quote="TheGrayEye] Even better, here, take a look at this. Go through about eight or so pages, and if you don't see the reoccuring design and repetitive nature that I'm talking about (aka, the reason I don't like anime), then you need new glasses. roxlimn

:lol:, it doesn't matter. It's the most popular, the most common, and the sty1e that anime is most synonymous for. You can show me as many obscure and contradicting examples as you want, doesn't change the overwhelming fact. That list goes on for dozens of pages, essentially citing hundreds of different animes that compliment my perspective. Also, you can stop repeating yourself, I viewed all the links.

It doesn't matter. It's the most popular, the most common, and the sty1e that anime is most synonymous for. You can show me as many obscure and contradicting examples as you want, doesn't change the overwhelming fact. That list goes on for dozens of pages, essentially citing hundreds of different animes that compliment my perspective. Also, you can stop repeating yourself, I viewed all the links.TheGrayEye

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

So your complaining because the characters fit in a certain artsty1e? It's like saying all minimalistic art is the same because.. It's minimalistic.

Yangire

My point all along is that it's not original, it's been done to death. I want to see games with more original and well-thought out sty1es, like Mass Effect, Bioshock, Team Fortress 2, or even games that utilize real-world underused art directions, such as Assassins Creed 2.

You having a lack of experience with the artsty1e makes something that is different look the same. Just like how someone can listen to death metal and think it all sounds the same when fans find great differences.

If you actually took the time to look into anime/manga/the cliched "anime artsty1e" you would easily find differences between characters and mangaka.

I like your point here, and there are of course variations, but you can't deny that visually, the character design of the characters generally follows the same template. Even anyone who likes music knows that most songs follow a similar structure, in terms of pace and respective genre nature- and music can get away with that much more than character design. This is why I don't like it, I want variety, new visions and groundbreaking designs- anime has none of that for me.

They have been.

Games like Resonance of Fate, The World Ends With You, Mario & Luigi and Demon's Souls have moved RPG's forward this gen. I hope Japan keeps it up.

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but I wanted to fire off a quick response to the Mass Effect fan, TheGrayEye. The game you're claiming is so "visionary" has narrative elements directly lifted from Alastair Reynolds's novel Revelation Space. The Reapers of Mass Effect are very nearly a carbon copy of Revelation Space's Inhibitors. The similarities are so direct that I think Reynolds probably could have won a copyright-infringement lawsuit if he had wanted to pursue it. I'm not bashing your favorite game here. I happen to think Mass Effect is pretty good and lack of originality doesn't bother me nearly as much as it does some. I'm just pointing out some facts about your paragon of originality.

Back on topic, I fail to see why so many people want JRPGs to be like Western games, and yet bemoan the lack of originality in JRPGs. Just play your WRPGs and be happy. Vive la difference!

TheGrayEye: Team Fortress 2 has an animated style that's well worn. Mass Effect and Bioshock try to portray realistic models. That style is also pretty done to death, particularly in videogames. Assassin's Creed 2 as well. Those styles are no less or more "done to "death" thatn Studio Ghibli titles. Seriously, there is no mistaking the difference between the style of a Ghibli work and Dragonball Z. Here's are pics from the videos you will not view: http://glothelegend.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/tokyo-poster3.jpg http://anime-wallpapers.com/images/800x600/spike-spiegel.jpg http://www.akata.fr/asiepop/anime-films/windy_tales/windy_tales_06.jpg http://7mangas.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/akibakko-11655648404119.jpg You are in the wrong, sir, and the sooner you watch, the sooner you get informed.roxlimn

Well worn? It's not cel-shading, so can you show me other games that have the same style? Thanks. This part intrigued me- "Mass Effect and Bioshock try to portray realistic models". Okay, I'm not sure how realism can ever, in anyway possible, be a generic artstyle, when it is in fact the most important and ultimate one of all. That's like saying all movies have generic art styles, because they use real actors and settings. Also, they don't just use realistic models, so now I have to wonder if you played the games with your glasses on or not, because you simply overlooked the alien races. Also, you can stop repeating yourself, because I watched the trailers, and they all shared elements of what I mentioned.

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but I wanted to fire off a quick response to the Mass Effect fan, TheGrayEye. The game you're claiming is so "visionary" has narrative elements directly lifted from Alastair Reynolds's novel Revelation Space. The Reapers of Mass Effect are very nearly a carbon copy of Revelation Space's Inhibitors. The similarities are so direct that I think Reynolds probably could have won a copyright-infringement lawsuit if he had wanted to pursue it. I'm not bashing your favorite game here. I happen to think Mass Effect is pretty good and lack of originality doesn't bother me nearly as much as it does some. I'm just pointing out some facts about your paragon of originality.

Back on topic, I fail to see why so many people want JRPGs to be like Western games, and yet bemoan the lack of originality in JRPGs. Just play your WRPGs and be happy. Vive la difference!

drochnathair

I don't ever remember mentioning anything about the story, just the design and visuals, so I'm not sure how that factors in to the discussion.

Yeah genius TF2 isn't cel-shading thanks for pointing out the obvious. What he is saying is that TF2 is also cartoony and maybe you should insult TF2 also.:|

All?

Alright. Tell me about which of those elements are present in this picture:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]It doesn't matter. It's the most popular, the most common, and the sty1e that anime is most synonymous for. You can show me as many obscure and contradicting examples as you want, doesn't change the overwhelming fact. That list goes on for dozens of pages, essentially citing hundreds of different animes that compliment my perspective. Also, you can stop repeating yourself, I viewed all the links.roxlimn

I can see you must know more about me than even I know... The biggest difference in that set is Tokyo Godfather, which based on the trailer (yes, I did watch it...) I can see still has said melodramatic/overly-expressive anime elements. There are alterations between the listed shows, but compared to what the western world offers, let's say- "Fantasia" to the friggen cartoon network show, "ed edd n eddy", the said alterations look miniscule by comparision. This is how I feel about the art styles offered from rpgs by the west as well- in comparision with jrpgs.

JRPG games are starting to bore me...Im a big fan of Final Fantasy and KH but when FF 13 came out I was so pissed of the gameplay.They should add more City where you can enter and talk to.Choices of Good or bad like Western RPGs. But when KH 3 comes out im sure JRPGs will get back on their feet.AznKSor

Yeah genius TF2 isn't cel-shading thanks for pointing out the obvious. What he is saying is that TF2 is also cartoony and maybe you should insult TF2 also.:|

shadowchronicle

I said point out a game that has the same style as Team Fortress 2. I've already supplied hundreds upon hundreds of pictures/evidence to further my case.

[QUOTE="roxlimn"][QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]It doesn't matter. It's the most popular, the most common, and the sty1e that anime is most synonymous for. You can show me as many obscure and contradicting examples as you want, doesn't change the overwhelming fact. That list goes on for dozens of pages, essentially citing hundreds of different animes that compliment my perspective. Also, you can stop repeating yourself, I viewed all the links.TheGrayEye

I can see you must know more about me than even I know... The biggest difference in that set is Tokyo Godfather, which based on the trailer (yes, I did watch it...) I can see still has said melodramatic/overly-expressive anime elements. There are alterations between the listed shows, but compared to what the western world offers, let's say- "Fantasia" to the friggen cartoon network show, "ed edd n eddy", the said alterations look miniscule by comparision. This is how I feel about the art styles offered from rpgs by the west as well- in comparision with jrpgs.

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="roxlimn"] And? What of them? No fighting. No melodrama. Different art styles. No change? No desire to see? Your perspective is that all anime is like what you present, not that it's the most popular. I have no problems with saying that those anime shows you link are very popular. I have a problem when you say that all anime is like that. The shows I linked are not, by any means, obscure. Yangire's arguably were. Mine aren't. You are under no obligation to watch only what everyone else is watching. If you don't like watching THOSE anime, then don't. But let's not pretend that you have any kind of insight as to what anime is like.Ibacai

I can see you must know more about me than even I know... The biggest difference in that set is Tokyo Godfather, which based on the trailer (yes, I did watch it...) I can see still has said melodramatic/overly-expressive anime elements. There are alterations between the listed shows, but compared to what the western world offers, let's say- "Fantasia" to the friggen cartoon network show, "ed edd n eddy", the said alterations look miniscule by comparision. This is how I feel about the art styles offered from rpgs by the west as well- in comparision with jrpgs.

Aside from the fact that almost every other scene in the first half of the trailer shows people crying, it has the typical anime trait of over expressing someone's feelings. People stare wide-eyed at things, and make little noises, just look at the part :59 seconds in, people don't act like that, and it's annoying seeing it every anime-related thing out there. Also 1:08, that doesn't even look like good crying, it looks way too expressive and cheesy, but not surprising from an anime. The characters look wide-eyed in almost every scene in this movie, that's the kind of crap that annoys me.