How can the Souls games be that good?

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Story sucks, get over it. It's not deep, it's not genius, its ra ridiculously simple framework so progression isn't pointless. As I said, it's flaws are forgiven by nerds because it's TEH HARDCORES AND IT CATES TO MEEE! Your post reeks of this pathetic superiority complexfoxhound_fox

for a niche game to have so many people who "get it" I don't think it's a mistake at all how From Software implemented the story. If he is trying to play the game like your random 'shoot first ask questions later' shooter or hold you hand 'let me explain everything so you dont have to think' RPG of course he wouldn't get it.

The problem lies within his understanding, not the actual game.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Story sucks, get over it. It's not deep, it's not genius, its ra ridiculously simple framework so progression isn't pointless. As I said, it's flaws are forgiven by nerds because it's TEH HARDCORES AND IT CATES TO MEEE! Your post reeks of this pathetic superiority complexcasharmy

for a niche game to have so many people who "get it" I don't think it's a mistake at all how From Software implemented the story. If he is trying to play the game like your random 'shoot first ask questions later' shooter or hold you hand 'let me explain everything so you dont have to think' RPG of course he wouldn't get it.

The problem lies within his understanding, not the actual game.

The same could be said for Silent hill Shattered Memories.

[QUOTE="metal_zombie"]

if you dont like them you could play other games like ff13 or....

BibiMaghoo

Cash army, you cannot deny it lacks narrative for an RPG surely? BibiMaghoo

the "narrative" is all throughout the game.

I am not going to try to make you understand if you have already formed that view. I have learned from my discussions with people who say that MGS2's story was "convoluted" that if a person has come to that conclusion with their own level of understanding after playing a game, then noting I say with words after the fact will bring on a revelation of epiphany.

only other people who already "understand" will be able to see any points I make because if someone fails to grasp what was going on when they experience something, It will be even more difficult to explain.

if you think Demon's lacks narrative then you are just another one of the individuals who stand on the invisible side of the fence who just didn't get it.

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"][QUOTE="casharmy"]

Simpleton

It's not that it has a mario level story line, it's the fact that you lack the perception to grasp how the story was put into place for the game. In a way I could understand your argument a little for Dark S, but the way the story was implemented in Demon's Souls was magnificent.

Your comments remind me of the people who bash MGS2's story because the lack the perception to understand the genius of how things were put into place and how things were carried out. It's quite easy to have a ready made story and have everythings explained as if you were a child, nothing in Demon's Souls is laid out for you, not even the story. It's a game of exploration, discovery and immersion and that's how it's meant to be played.

Stop comming here with your ignorant coments about a mario level story line because you fail to grasp the impact of how the story is woven into the entire game experience.

casharmy

like I said there is a whole community of fans who were able to grasp the story...even gamespot was able to understand the depth of how the developers let the story play out...you are but a drop in the ocean, you are easily swept away. No one cares that you have limited preception, but stop posting your opinion as fact.

From what I've played of Demon's Souls, I feel it has some of the best gameplay for the genre. Every weapon actually feels like it should and hits like it hits, plus it is all dependent on your patience and skill to be rewarded in the game.

But that is my biggest gripe with the game. It is dependent on your skill. Most games are, but most games also have differing difficulties. I read an article on Demon's Souls & Dark Souls once that said they didn't want differing difficulties in the game because it would take away the sense of reward and gratification. I feel they are very much entitled to do this and they should not make their game a specific way because certain people whine about it, but after spending 10+ hours with the game and still seeming like I'm not getting any better I find the game isn't any fun and that its more of a chore. Its a chore to go through the same area again, fighting the same enemies again, only to die again and do it a third time. And then a fourth time. And so on. Yes it is my fault but its disheartening.

I would like it if the games had adopted something like the Kid Icarus difficulty meter. Those that are interested in the game but not wanting to suffer through the difficulty can set it lower but not get as many rewards, nor the gratification. Those that want the experience can set it higher, get better rewards, and feel more fulfilled. And those that want to work toward the higher difficulty can little by little.

Of course From Software won't do this and of course fans of the games get up in arms about adding a difficulty setting, especially an easier one. But I'd buy Dark Souls and any sequels in a heartbeat because of the great gameplay in intriguing atmosphere if the games were willing to allow for the lower-skilled players to ease their way in at their own pace. And that as they say is that.

A difficulty meter would defeat the purpose of the game (talking Dark Souls here, never played Demons). The story is presented in a minimalist fashion, there aren't really any cutscenes, basically the game is set up to be challenging (and fair) so that the player's reward for advancement is the very fact that he/she is allowed to advance. It's the sense of accomplishment at figuring things out, defeating the big boss, and moving on to explore the next dreaded area that drives the player. All of which becomes rather pointless or diluted with easy mode.

[QUOTE="BibiMaghoo"]Cash army, you cannot deny it lacks narrative for an RPG surely? casharmy

the "narrative" is all throughout the game.

I am not going to try to make you understand if you have already formed that view. I have learned from my discussions with people who say that MGS2's story was "convoluted" that if a person has come to that conclusion with their own level of understanding after playing a game, then noting I say with words after the fact will bring on a revelation of epiphany.

only other people who already "understand" will be able to see any points I make because if someone fails to grasp what was going on when they experience something, It will be even more difficult to explain.

if you think Demon's lacks narrative then you are just another one of the individuals who stand on the invisible side of the fence who just didn't get it.

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"] I never said massive, did I? The games story blows, in an RPG. RPG being the point, and both Demons and Dark have Mario-level stories in place simply to give you a basic reason for why you're progressing. Music is meh, inventory feels like a cheap 90s game, online is touchy, and omfg the infuriating character-stuck-in-environment that was ultimately the reason I sold Dark Souls.WreckEm711

Simpleton

It's not that it has a mario level story line, it's the fact that you lack the perception to grasp how the story was put into place for the game. In a way I could understand your argument a little for Dark S, but the way the story was implemented in Demon's Souls was magnificent.

Your comments remind me of the people who bash MGS2's story because the lack the perception to understand the genius of how things were put into place and how things were carried out. It's quite easy to have a ready made story and have everythings explained as if you were a child, nothing in Demon's Souls is laid out for you, not even the story. It's a game of exploration, discovery and immersion and that's how it's meant to be played.

Stop comming here with your ignorant coments about a mario level story line because you fail to grasp the impact of how the story is woven into the entire game experience.

And no, people don't like the Souls series just because they're hard. Oil_rope_bombs

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"] Story sucks, get over it. It's not deep, it's not genius, its ra ridiculously simple framework so progression isn't pointless. As I said, it's flaws are forgiven by nerds because it's TEH HARDCORES AND IT CATES TO MEEE! Your post reeks of this pathetic superiority complexWreckEm711

like I said there is a whole community of fans who were able to grasp the story...even gamespot was able to understand the depth of how the developers let the story play out...you are but a drop in the ocean, you are easily swept away. No one cares that you have limited preception, but stop posting your opinion as fact.

To prove a point you first have to make one.

You continue to make ridiculous comments about Demon's+ DarkS not having a story (not the first time in this thread) I've gotten tired of your false/misleading claims so I finally decided to address them. Like I said, stop posting you opinion as fact because obviously (many people behind me on this) what you are saying is not the experience and opinion of majority of the fans who have played the game.

You didn't get the story/vision behind the game? fine. But don't disregard all the people telling you there is indeed a marvelous story woven into the game just because YOU DIDN'T GET IT or failed to see it.

A difficulty meter would defeat the purpose of the game (talking Dark Souls here, never played Demons). The story is presented in a minimalist fashion, there aren't really any cutscenes, basically the game is set up to be challenging (and fair) so that the player's reward for advancement is the very fact that he/she is allowed to advance. It's the sense of accomplishment at figuring things out, defeating the big boss, and moving on to explore the next dreaded area that drives the player. All of which becomes rather pointless or diluted with easy mode.

1oh1nine1

I actually stated this is what fans of the games would say but I also said that I don't disagree. Some people just will have a problem getting up to the skill to advance though and it is disappointing seeing my skills with the game not improving thus I can't enjoy the game to its fullest.

In the Souls series, you are neither The Hero of Time nor God of War nor ???,
You are just an adventurer.[spoiler] And so were the skeletons you see before you. [/spoiler] Demons' Souls isn't cheap on an individual encounter basis, but the level design forces you to play at a snail's pace such that when you do die, you end up getting very frustrated.

Case in point for those who've played Demons' Souls: The Valley of Defilement.

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"][QUOTE="casharmy"]

like I said there is a whole community of fans who were able to grasp the story...even gamespot was able to understand the depth of how the developers let the story play out...you are but a drop in the ocean, you are easily swept away. No one cares that you have limited preception, but stop posting your opinion as fact.

casharmy

To prove a point you first have to make one.

You continue to make ridiculous comments about Demon's+ DarkS not having a story (not the first time in this thread) I've gotten tired of your false/misleading claims so I finally decided to address them. Like I said, stop posting you opinion as fact because obviously (many people behind me on this) what you are saying is not the experience and opinion of majority of the fans who have played the game.

You didn't get the story/vision behind the game? fine. But don't disregard all the people telling you there is indeed a marvelous story woven into the game just because YOU DIDN'T GET IT or failed to see it.

games walk a very fine line between hard and cheap... I don't know, like I said I have yet to play either of them. But I get the feeling that this is one of the cases of a game jsut getting mroe lvoe than it deserves.

turtlethetaffer

Some people just like to praise the games since they think it makes them hardcore or some stupid sh*t for playing them. I just find them to be enjoyable.

I heard there's a frog type enemy that spits an acid cloud that can... degrade your armor by 50%? I think that was it. I know it had soething to do with permanantly weakening your armor.turtlethetaffer

Are you thinking of the Basilisk? They can curse you, which drops your health in half. It sucks.

They're both damn good games, and if you're into pure dungeon crawlers and loot filled RPGs it can be pretty addicting.

However with plenty of games out there I tend to start hating its die hard fans, never seems to be lack of them here. It does have flaws, some are more forgivable than others. For me, I've never like the PVP system and online. Dark Souls can be way too laggy and it boils down to the same **** over and over again. You get some jerk off using the Dark Wood Grain Ring in Dark souls trying to flip behind you for a back stab. Sometimes I would like to just get through some stuff on SP but you run into "You've been invaded by Jerk Off McJerkster". Pisses me off.

However after beating Dark Souls again the other day I'll say the diffuculty is definately overrated. There's still some cheapness, but its not TOTALLY unfair. I beat the game in under 5 hours doing a speed fun, its actually quite easy to do if you know what loot to look for early on.

Threads like these always remind me of how elitist Demon's/Dark Souls fans are.

They're both damn good games, and if you're into pure dungeon crawlers and loot filled RPGs it can be pretty addicting.

However with plenty of games out there I tend to start hating its die hard fans, never seems to be lack of them here. It does have flaws, some are more forgivable than others. For me, I've never like the PVP system and online. Dark Souls can be way too laggy and it boils down to the same **** over and over again. You get some jerk off using the Dark Wood Grain Ring in Dark souls trying to flip behind you for a back stab. Sometimes I would like to just get through some stuff on SP but you run into "You've been invaded by Jerk Off McJerkster". Pisses me off.

HoolaHoopMan

It's one of those games that PC gamers wish they had on PC. It's that good.RickTophen

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"][QUOTE="Jynxzor"] I wasn't aware that it had any massive flaws. Would you care to point them out?casharmy

derp derp derp derp DARK SOULS IS THE BEST derp derp derp SONY EXCLUSIVES ARE GOD derp derp derp DEMON SOULS PS3 RULEZ drp derp

Says the nerd raged who responded with insults because his hardcore toy was criticized? There's no point in discussing with people like you. Keep apologizing for the lackluster story, you have fun combat to distract yourself from it ;)WreckEm711

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Says the nerd raged who responded with insults because his hardcore toy was criticized? There's no point in discussing with people like you. Keep apologizing for the lackluster story, you have fun combat to distract yourself from it ;)BrunoBRS

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Says the nerd raged who responded with insults because his hardcore toy was criticized? There's no point in discussing with people like you. Keep apologizing for the lackluster story, you have fun combat to distract yourself from it ;)clone01

Cheap is when a game with normally generous checkpoints has a few segments where the nearest one is miles away and enemies have lock on grenades that always find your feet.

Challenging is a fair fight with set rules to the world where if you die, its your own fault.

That is Dark Souls, with both the lack of hand holding and cheap tactics to pad difficulty making the game pretty damn satisfying. Its one of those games even console hating elitists are jealous for, and moron fanboys would hate to see be more successful on systems other then their own.

As opposed to the barrage of games we've been getting this generation that might as well play themselves, the Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are MUCH WELCOME! They harken to an era where finishing a game was an actual accomplishment.

As opposed to the barrage of games we've been getting this generation that might as well play themselves, the Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are MUCH WELCOME! They harken to an era where finishing a game was an actual accomplishment.

Shewgenja

what are you waiting for. go buy both games right MEOW!

both are classics and i cant wait for the next one.

oh and btw the games are not cheap. they are challenging and require a lot of trial and error.

My only complaint, is that in Demon's Souls (only one I played ) is that after battling your way up to a boss you have to watch the boss movie intro every time. Battle 5 minutes, 3 minute movie, fight boss for 5. Repeating that and watching the same video over and over is infuriating.robokill

The souls games are much like the games of the past. They are trial and error, if you don't like this then I suggest you stay far away. Secondly while information is scattered around to tell you about the world (much like witcher 2 does) there is no main plot (unlike witcher 2). On one hand it provides a sense of mystery, on the other you don't get as many answers as you want. Thirdly the combat is slow and methodical, at points you may have to act quickly, but really it's a game that tests your patience most of the time, again if you hate this do not play. Also the game has a real sense of consequence (watch who you kill or don't kill).

Now opinion out of the way, here's some legitimate gripes about the games.

- Some parts are cheap (despite what the fanboys say), being shot off a balcony from an archer off screen is cool

- The games are technical disasters (dark souls more than demon souls)

- There's no measures put in place for the more casual gamers (difficulty setting anyone?)

- PVP/Co-op (at least in dark souls) is a mess, I don't know how it is now but it was pretty bad when I first tried it.

Personally I think the games are 8/10 or so and they do get overpraised, but they are genuinely good games.

First off, Demon/Dark Souls, is in no way cheap, I never came to a point in a game where I felt I was wronged. Patience is very much the key to this type of game. Overfidence coupled with carelessness is its shortcut to your very own death. You die, because of your own fault or reasoning, it never the game's fault. By saying this, it give you the satifaction when you pass something you haven't before, defeated a boss, or simply can move through an area with less worry. That doesn't mean getting stronger, leveling up is any way makes you invincible, you can still die to anything really. But thats simply if you drop what you learned previously and make a mistake of your own accord.This being natural part of the game for everyone.

Second, the whole lack of a story can be debated. It might not play out like the general way people consider story to be. Its story is your own story, what I mean is what happens to you is the story in it self. Yes we got the occasional bits of cutscenes and such. The story may be a bit light compared to that of other game, but what it got alot of is hidden lore. Simply dialouge, item descriptions and such give quite good look into a world of interesting possibilities. What I like alot of this game in the sense of that is not everything is balantly shown to you, but rather you have to explore and find out for youself. A bit of forums jumping and some interesting youtube videos posted by DS players push alot of what people consider alot of the unexplained. There is alot of hidden lore and such within the game for people if wanting that can explore for themselves. They can make up their own theories and such. This is interesting element to the game.

Overall I welcome more game of this nature, that don't hold your hand all the way through, and let your explore it on your own accord. I really like DS series.

The souls games are much like the games of the past. They are trial and error, if you don't like this then I suggest you stay far away. Secondly while information is scattered around to tell you about the world (much like witcher 2 does) there is no main plot (unlike witcher 2). On one hand it provides a sense of mystery, on the other you don't get as many answers as you want. Thirdly the combat is slow and methodical, at points you may have to act quickly, but really it's a game that tests your patience most of the time, again if you hate this do not play. Also the game has a real sense of consequence (watch who you kill or don't kill).

Now opinion out of the way, here's some legitimate gripes about the games.

- Some parts are cheap (despite what the fanboys say), being shot off a balcony from an archer off screen is cool

- The games are technical disasters (dark souls more than demon souls)

- There's no measures put in place for the more casual gamers (difficulty setting anyone?)

- PVP/Co-op (at least in dark souls) is a mess, I don't know how it is now but it was pretty bad when I first tried it.

Personally I think the games are 8/10 or so and they do get overpraised, but they are genuinely good games.

GD1551

I stopped reading when you mentioned "cheap". NOTHING is cheap in Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. Difficult yes, but cheap, hell no!! Keep in mind I have a platinum in Demon's Souls and 50% trophies in Dark Souls during 1 playthrough. I know these games..they are not cheap.

xOMGITSJASONx

I second this statement

[QUOTE="robokill"]My only complaint, is that in Demon's Souls (only one I played ) is that after battling your way up to a boss you have to watch the boss movie intro every time. Battle 5 minutes, 3 minute movie, fight boss for 5. Repeating that and watching the same video over and over is infuriating.mitu123

Wow, wtf are you talking about? There is only a cut scene introducing the boss the first time you encounter it in Demon's Souls. Dark Souls has a few that replay, at least one that I know is Gaping Dragon. I can't recall any in Demon's Souls.

The Souls games are great. They are challenging but not ridiculously hard like some people claim. The sound and art design is great. But most importantly the games are just really fun to play. You should at least give one of them a try.

The souls games are much like the games of the past. They are trial and error, if you don't like this then I suggest you stay far away. Secondly while information is scattered around to tell you about the world (much like witcher 2 does) there is no main plot (unlike witcher 2). On one hand it provides a sense of mystery, on the other you don't get as many answers as you want. Thirdly the combat is slow and methodical, at points you may have to act quickly, but really it's a game that tests your patience most of the time, again if you hate this do not play. Also the game has a real sense of consequence (watch who you kill or don't kill).

Now opinion out of the way, here's some legitimate gripes about the games.

- Some parts are cheap (despite what the fanboys say), being shot off a balcony from an archer off screen is cool

- The games are technical disasters (dark souls more than demon souls)

- There's no measures put in place for the more casual gamers (difficulty setting anyone?)

- PVP/Co-op (at least in dark souls) is a mess, I don't know how it is now but it was pretty bad when I first tried it.

Personally I think the games are 8/10 or so and they do get overpraised, but they are genuinely good games.

GD1551

Just started playing it recently and was pleasantly surprised. Sometimes it gets pretty hard, but it's not like the difficulty is all it has going for it. Great designs for the enemies and enviroments, the best boss battles I've played this generation, an interesting world to explore, and some damn good combat.

ok, i'm curious. what does it do?BrunoBRS