How did Bioware go so wrong?

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dreman999

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#451 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="jamejame"]

Dragon Age: Origins is one of my favorite RPGs ever made. I haven't played Dragon Age 2 yet, so I can't comment on it but I wasn't too impressed with the demo. However, they're biggest disappointment for me was Mass Effect 2, game was terribad, and 3 looks worse.

jamejame

....Let me guess...Too focus on the combat that you could not see that everything that makes a BW game great is still in ME2 and ME3?

What? That was worded confusingly. I'll just quickly address the main factors I didn't like about it. I personally thought the gunplay was more fun and less generic in the original, but that's beside the fact that they streamlined all the original's RPG elements into 3 powers with 3 upgrades each. It just didn't have the variety that Mass Effect did, and even that is ignoring the insane linearity in the level design once you knew you were in an area involving combat. Mechanically the game honestly felt more like a Gears sequel than the successor to the original.

Let me say it again...It was very clear the first time. You were too focus on the combat that you did not see that everything that makes a bioware game great is still in the bioware games, ME2 and ME3.... How is that not clear? The thing is it was never the rpg feature that made any Bioware game fantastic. In Bulder's gate 2, the fun part was never the inventory screen or the stat screen and it was not the depth ether. When Bulder's gate came out it was just like every other crpg that came out at the time the thing that made it stand out is the characters, the players character development, and how you interacted with the world with character development.. They took those 3 things and ran with it in every game since. ME2 streamline had a point because of the fact that:

ME1 RPG features are padded.(You can easily see that if you look at the ability screen of ME1 and compered that with DA:O.)

ME as a series need no inventory because you had nothing to inventory.(You had no need to save weapons or armor once you get better gear and the barely happened.)

ME1 had very linear builds.(You had no real way of making your characters abilities unique...And you had 4 levels,the 4th level had you choose how your abilities evolved for each ability. I can make my adepts throw different base on how much I put it the power and how I evolve it. Look up area throw and heavy throw. Theirs a difference between an area incinerate blast and a harder hitting on.)

ME2 is more changing.(Most of ME1 you can tank and spank your way through or Crowd control and spank your way throw. You can't do that in ME2. As an adept I can kill directly with may powers now, unlike ME1 were I lift and shot them to death.)

......

I can go on.....

I find that ME2is better design then ME1... Oh the level design is the same, if you don;t think so, our forgetting how linear Faros and Therun are and the copy paste design for the side quest.. The major different is that you don't drive the mako 50 miles to shoot someone. The fact is that your too focus on the combat to see the depth of the game. With rpg, it's never with the combat, it's what you do in the game.. And you can do more in ME2 then ME1.

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texasgoldrush

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#452 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="musalala"]

David Gaider wrote most of DA 2... so yes if he thinks romances in Twilight are "good" then thats worrying

musalala

He came up with the concepts and co- created DA. That doesn't mean he writes everything. As head game designer, he has a concept and organize people to assemble it, that doesn't mean he wrote the story. Do you not understand the concept of "Team of Writers". On top of that DA2 was not a bad plot ether, just badly developed.

LOL stop lying David was the head writer the lead desigenr/director was Mike Laidlow, again for someone who di@$ rides bioware as hard as you do, you spout an awful lot of BS, Even if he is head writer the decsisons as to what to include and exclude in the story fall on him and the fact that he thinks the romances in twilight are good is just frightening, I think you don"t understand what head writer is DUMBA@@

Gaider only written part of the game and that is a fact. Mary Kirby wrote Varric and Merrill. Jennifer Hepler wrote Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Cullen, Elthana, and Sebastian David Gaider wrote Cassandra, Fenris and the major end game characters such as Meredith and Orsino. Gaider did NOT want the mage player fighting Orsino, design team wanted it. Lukas Kristjanson wrote Carver and Aveline Sheryl Chee wrote Isabela and was responsible for Leliana, who is the writing team's and Ladlaw's favorite character. Felicia Day wrote Tallis EACH WRITER wrote a different romance.
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musalala

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#453 musalala
Member since 2008 • 3131 Posts

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] He came up with the concepts and co- created DA. That doesn't mean he writes everything. As head game designer, he has a concept and organize people to assemble it, that doesn't mean he wrote the story. Do you not understand the concept of "Team of Writers". On top of that DA2 was not a bad plot ether, just badly developed.texasgoldrush

LOL stop lying David was the head writer the lead desigenr/director was Mike Laidlow, again for someone who di@$ rides bioware as hard as you do, you spout an awful lot of BS, Even if he is head writer the decsisons as to what to include and exclude in the story fall on him and the fact that he thinks the romances in twilight are good is just frightening, I think you don"t understand what head writer is DUMBA@@

Gaider only written part of the game and that is a fact. Mary Kirby wrote Varric and Merrill. Jennifer Hepler wrote Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Cullen, Elthana, and Sebastian David Gaider wrote Cassandra, Fenris and the major end game characters such as Meredith and Orsino. Gaider did NOT want the mage player fighting Orsino, design team wanted it. Lukas Kristjanson wrote Carver and Aveline Sheryl Chee wrote Isabela and was responsible for Leliana, who is the writing team's and Ladlaw's favorite character. Felicia Day wrote Tallis EACH WRITER wrote a different romance.

Doesn"t change the fact that HE WAS LEAD WRITER and all decesions have to be Oked by him , unless you are insinuating that he held no such power?

Mike Laidlow was lead director/designer he might not not have done or been involved in every aspect but all major decisions as far as gameplay were done by him. Can we drop this s**t already if you serioulsy are saying that Its a good thing that DA2 lead writer thinks that the writting in Twilight was good GTFO

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texasgoldrush

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#454 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] The romances didn't suck...I just think it's logical that one guys opinion on a novel doesn't mean everyone at bioware sucks at writing. How does that even add up?

He's writing the majority of the story of DA2.

dreman999

David Gaider wrote most of DA 2... so yes if he thinks romances in Twilight are "good" then thats worrying

He came up with the concepts and co- created DA. That doesn't mean he writes everything. As head game designer, he has a concept and organize people to assemble it, that doesn't mean he wrote the story. Do you not understand the concept of "Team of Writers". On top of that DA2 was not a bad plot ether, just badly developed.

Badly rushed...the writers said that hey ran out of time to implement many things and the key plotline that truly should have moved Act I got cut. DAII is just like KOTOR II, a game much better written than its predeccesor but rushed for time and key parts didn't get implimented. DAII needs a restoration mod....KOTOR II was saved by one.
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texasgoldrush

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#455 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL stop lying David was the head writer the lead desigenr/director was Mike Laidlow, again for someone who di@$ rides bioware as hard as you do, you spout an awful lot of BS, Even if he is head writer the decsisons as to what to include and exclude in the story fall on him and the fact that he thinks the romances in twilight are good is just frightening, I think you don"t understand what head writer is DUMBA@@

musalala

Gaider only written part of the game and that is a fact. Mary Kirby wrote Varric and Merrill. Jennifer Hepler wrote Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Cullen, Elthana, and Sebastian David Gaider wrote Cassandra, Fenris and the major end game characters such as Meredith and Orsino. Gaider did NOT want the mage player fighting Orsino, design team wanted it. Lukas Kristjanson wrote Carver and Aveline Sheryl Chee wrote Isabela and was responsible for Leliana, who is the writing team's and Ladlaw's favorite character. Felicia Day wrote Tallis EACH WRITER wrote a different romance.

Doesn"t change the fact that HE WAS LEAD and all decesions have to be Oked by him , unless you are insinuating that he held no such power?

and how were the romances poor? I admit that the male DAII charactes romances were not very good. However, Merrill's was excellent and so was Aveline's with Donnic. And ME2 romances were top notch and very well done and complex, especially Thane, Tali, and Jacks.
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texasgoldrush

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#456 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

Dragon Age: Origins is one of my favorite RPGs ever made. I haven't played Dragon Age 2 yet, so I can't comment on it but I wasn't too impressed with the demo. However, they're biggest disappointment for me was Mass Effect 2, game was terribad, and 3 looks worse.

jamejame
Do I need to go into detail how borken an dunbalanced both DAO's and ME1's combat systems were? I rather take a more actionized, but MORE BALANCED combat system, than a deep RPG system with more variety that i sbusted because of heavy imbalance in options.
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KalDurenik

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#457 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts
[QUOTE="jamejame"]

Dragon Age: Origins is one of my favorite RPGs ever made. I haven't played Dragon Age 2 yet, so I can't comment on it but I wasn't too impressed with the demo. However, they're biggest disappointment for me was Mass Effect 2, game was terribad, and 3 looks worse.

texasgoldrush
Do I need to go into detail how borken an dunbalanced both DAO's and ME1's combat systems were? I rather take a more actionized, but MORE BALANCED combat system, than a deep RPG system with more variety that i sbusted because of heavy imbalance in options.

You do know that imbalance happen because the devs are lazy and not because its a rpg right? Also why have a rpg if its just going to be twitch based combat?
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musalala

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#458 musalala
Member since 2008 • 3131 Posts

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Gaider only written part of the game and that is a fact. Mary Kirby wrote Varric and Merrill. Jennifer Hepler wrote Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Cullen, Elthana, and Sebastian David Gaider wrote Cassandra, Fenris and the major end game characters such as Meredith and Orsino. Gaider did NOT want the mage player fighting Orsino, design team wanted it. Lukas Kristjanson wrote Carver and Aveline Sheryl Chee wrote Isabela and was responsible for Leliana, who is the writing team's and Ladlaw's favorite character. Felicia Day wrote Tallis EACH WRITER wrote a different romance. texasgoldrush

Doesn"t change the fact that HE WAS LEAD and all decesions have to be Oked by him , unless you are insinuating that he held no such power?

and how were the romances poor? I admit that the male DAII charactes romances were not very good. However, Merrill's was excellent and so was Aveline's with Donnic. And ME2 romances were top notch and very well done and complex, especially Thane, Tali, and Jacks.

You answered you own question.

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musalala

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#459 musalala
Member since 2008 • 3131 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="musalala"]

Doesn"t change the fact that HE WAS LEAD and all decesions have to be Oked by him , unless you are insinuating that he held no such power?

musalala

and how were the romances poor? I admit that the male DAII charactes romances were not very good. However, Merrill's was excellent and so was Aveline's with Donnic. And ME2 romances were top notch and very well done and complex, especially Thane, Tali, and Jacks.

You answered you own question.

Also I was responding his assertion that Gaider was the lead designer when it was actually Laidlow and the fact that the lead writer thinks that one of the worst written books in recent memory was well done

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dreman999

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#460 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="musalala"]

Doesn"t change the fact that HE WAS LEAD and all decesions have to be Oked by him , unless you are insinuating that he held no such power?

musalala

and how were the romances poor? I admit that the male DAII charactes romances were not very good. However, Merrill's was excellent and so was Aveline's with Donnic. And ME2 romances were top notch and very well done and complex, especially Thane, Tali, and Jacks.

You answered you own question.

So how does the male npc romance being not very good equal all of BW writing is bad?
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#461 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts
[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="jamejame"]

Dragon Age: Origins is one of my favorite RPGs ever made. I haven't played Dragon Age 2 yet, so I can't comment on it but I wasn't too impressed with the demo. However, they're biggest disappointment for me was Mass Effect 2, game was terribad, and 3 looks worse.

KalDurenik
Do I need to go into detail how borken an dunbalanced both DAO's and ME1's combat systems were? I rather take a more actionized, but MORE BALANCED combat system, than a deep RPG system with more variety that i sbusted because of heavy imbalance in options.

You do know that imbalance happen because the devs are lazy and not because its a rpg right? Also why have a rpg if its just going to be twitch based combat?

*Looks at ME2 and SWTOR.* Lazy....Right :roll:
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KalDurenik

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#462 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts
[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="KalDurenik"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Do I need to go into detail how borken an dunbalanced both DAO's and ME1's combat systems were? I rather take a more actionized, but MORE BALANCED combat system, than a deep RPG system with more variety that i sbusted because of heavy imbalance in options.

You do know that imbalance happen because the devs are lazy and not because its a rpg right? Also why have a rpg if its just going to be twitch based combat?

*Looks at ME2 and SWTOR.* Lazy....Right :roll:

Yeah... lazy
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dreman999

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#463 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts
[QUOTE="KalDurenik"][QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="KalDurenik"] You do know that imbalance happen because the devs are lazy and not because its a rpg right? Also why have a rpg if its just going to be twitch based combat?

*Looks at ME2 and SWTOR.* Lazy....Right :roll:

Yeah... lazy

I hope your being sarcastic... Remember, in ME1 every sup quest was put in an environment that was copy and pasted and ME2 made unique locations for each mission.
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texasgoldrush

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#464 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] and how were the romances poor? I admit that the male DAII charactes romances were not very good. However, Merrill's was excellent and so was Aveline's with Donnic. And ME2 romances were top notch and very well done and complex, especially Thane, Tali, and Jacks.dreman999

You answered you own question.

So how does the male npc romance being not very good equal all of BW writing is bad?

seriously, didn't I just say that while the male romances weren't very good, the female romances were excellent? When you have 5 romance threads, not all are the smae quality. People just like to misread what I say.
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texasgoldrush

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#465 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
[QUOTE="KalDurenik"][QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="KalDurenik"] You do know that imbalance happen because the devs are lazy and not because its a rpg right? Also why have a rpg if its just going to be twitch based combat?

*Looks at ME2 and SWTOR.* Lazy....Right :roll:

Yeah... lazy

ME2 is a hell of alot more balanced than the first ME game, a hell of a lot.