How does vgchartz come up with their numbers? Read this link and find out....

People in this forum go on and on about how you can't trust vgchartz numbers. Statements like "they just make them up" ,"they can't be trusted" ,"NPD is God" are all over the place.

Ioi, the founder of vgchartz have taken the time to explain how they get their numbers and also share abit of info about their future plans.

Good read that i highly recommend all you nai sayers and doubthers to read thoroughly. Anyone curious about vgchartz and what they do should read this aswell.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=629

Enjoy and discuss.

P.s : Comments like "they stink" or simular remarks are just a waste of time. That's how teens and children argue. Adults or reflected mature teens have learned to use arguments... Hint hint..... ;-)

I though it was automatic?? Anyways, predictiopn can't help any of you people, it's just going to be always wrong.. not even close.GatoFeo

"Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers." How can they be so far off at times then? I think they people they are getting data from, must not represent a good sample then.Heil68

When have they been so far off?

Can't exactly remember that vgchartz has been very far from.. Only thing I remember are stupid lemmings whinning about VGchartz not showing the number of xbox 360s sold too retailers (which would be stupid) that the lemmings think are sold too consumers..

[QUOTE="Heil68"]"Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers." How can they be so far off at times then? I think they people they are getting data from, must not represent a good sample then.omgimba

When have they been so far off?

Can't exactly remember that vgchartz has been very far from.. Only thing I remember are stupid lemmings whinning about VGchartz not showing the number of xbox 360s sold too retailers (which would be stupid) that the lemmings think are sold too consumers..

Every month VGChartz is off by at least 20% on at least one console. Back in July, they were over 100,000 off on BOTH the 360 and PS3.

People in this forum go on and on about how you can't trust vgchartz numbers. Statements like "they just make them up" ,"they can't be trusted" ,"NPD is God" are all over the place.

Ioi, the founder of vgchartz have taken the time to explain how they get their numbers and also share abit of info about their future plans.

Good read that i highly recommend all you nai sayers and doubthers to read thoroughly. Anyone curious about vgchartz and what they do should read this aswell.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=629

Enjoy and discuss.

P.s : Comments like "they stink" or simular remarks are just a waste of time. That's how teens and children argue. Adults or reflected mature teens have learned to use arguments... Hint hint..... ;-)

bobbo

"Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will know that you don't need a large sample size to get good results, merely a good sample."

Bull****. You need BOTH. That's why NPD has a margin of error of less than 1%: they use both a large sample size and a good sample. And you know what? Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will also know that a margin of error of 15-20% is horrible. This guy is talking out of his ass.

He tries to downplay the fact that their statistics are so terrible, and fails miserably. He basically admits to being an effing pretender and pathetic conman when he says that their margin of error is 15-20%. I mean, consider this: if VGChartz says that the Xbox 360 sold 300,000 units in November, but admitting that their margin of error is 20%, then what that REALLY means is that their ACTUAL estimate for the 360's sales are between 240,000 and 360,000.

VGChartz is trash.

[QUOTE="omgimba"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]"Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers." How can they be so far off at times then? I think they people they are getting data from, must not represent a good sample then.mjarantilla

When have they been so far off?

Can't exactly remember that vgchartz has been very far from.. Only thing I remember are stupid lemmings whinning about VGchartz not showing the number of xbox 360s sold too retailers (which would be stupid) that the lemmings think are sold too consumers..

Every month VGChartz is off by at least 20% on at least one console. Back in July, they were over 100,000 off on BOTH the 360 and PS3.

Dont expect VGChartz to match NPD, ever. NPD doesnt count quite a few major retailers like Wal Mart orTarget.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]"Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers." How can they be so far off at times then? I think they people they are getting data from, must not represent a good sample then.gromit007

When have they been so far off?

Can't exactly remember that vgchartz has been very far from.. Only thing I remember are stupid lemmings whinning about VGchartz not showing the number of xbox 360s sold too retailers (which would be stupid) that the lemmings think are sold too consumers..

Every month VGChartz is off by at least 20% on at least one console. Back in July, they were over 100,000 off on BOTH the 360 and PS3.

Dont expect VGChartz to match NPD, ever. NPD doesnt count quite a few major retailers like Wal Mart orTarget.

Helloooooo? VGChartz was off by 100,000 units on two estimates.

And it doesn't matter that NPD doesn't include a few retailers. They cover more than 60% of the market. Anyone who has even a high school education in statistics knows that a sample population that big is more than enough to achieve a margin of error of less than 1%. Example: presidential pre-election polls only poll a few thousand people at a time, yet are good enough to have a margin of error of less than 5%.

I doubt VGChartz has data from more than a few dozen retailers.

[QUOTE="bobbo"]

People in this forum go on and on about how you can't trust vgchartz numbers. Statements like "they just make them up" ,"they can't be trusted" ,"NPD is God" are all over the place.

Ioi, the founder of vgchartz have taken the time to explain how they get their numbers and also share abit of info about their future plans.

Good read that i highly recommend all you nai sayers and doubthers to read thoroughly. Anyone curious about vgchartz and what they do should read this aswell.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=629

Enjoy and discuss.

P.s : Comments like "they stink" or simular remarks are just a waste of time. That's how teens and children argue. Adults or reflected mature teens have learned to use arguments... Hint hint..... ;-)

mjarantilla

"Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will know that you don't need a large sample size to get good results, merely a good sample."

Bull****. You need BOTH. That's why NPD has a margin of error of less than 1%: they use both a large sample size and a good sample. And you know what? Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will also know that a margin of error of 15-20% is horrible. This guy is talking out of his ass.

He tries to downplay the fact that their statistics are so terrible, and fails miserably. He basically admits to being an effing pretender and pathetic conman when he says that their margin of error is 15-20%. I mean, consider this: if VGChartz says that the Xbox 360 sold 300,000 units in November, but admitting that their margin of error is 20%, then what that REALLY means is that their ACTUAL estimate for the 360's sales are between 240,000 and 360,000.

VGChartz is trash.

"Mjarantilla" : Do you work for the NPD? is that the reason for your ,in a lack of a better word "hate"towards vgchartz?

We have had this discussion before and NPD have never been within 1% on actuall numbers. Noone knows the exact numbers. NPD never tracked chains like Walmart (and others) . A place chock full of non gamers purchasing for their loved ones. (mothers,fathers,grand dads and mums and the like). Walmarts shopping demographics are different then the demographics in say a specialist intercity gameing store.

Customers shop differently in different store types based upon what kind of customer the store type attracts. Thats why you never can estimate within 1% unless you cover all sorts of different retail. That means that shopping malls, internett/specialist/electronic/toy stores all need to be included to get the full picture.

NPD do not track all store types. Hence they will never be able to cover the shopping patterns of the different demographics going to different types of stores.

They will get good indications but nothing more. Believing otherwise would be naive at best. Whoverifies the correctness ofNPD's number`?

NOONE.....but themselves......

Vgchartz datais based upon much smaller samplings. However they track formalmost all store types (online included). That means thay will cover all different demographics.

Their numbers might be just as good as NPD's.

Why someone would go out of their way to drag vgchartz into the dirt , i just can't understand. All they do is to provide the gameing community with free sales data. I have followed them for several months and they do a kick ass job.

Since NPD has faced competition for the first time and because of that competition have chosen not make their own numbers avaliable to the public, vgchartz should get support not hate.

Who else is out their doing this work and making it public at the same time? Please tell me ,i would like to know.......

Every month VGChartz is off by at least 20% on at least one console. Back in July, they were over 100,000 off on BOTH the 360 and PS3.

mjarantilla

VGCharts underpredicted Metroid Prime 3. They also grossly over predicted Eternal Sonata. The game was on the list for 4 weeks surpassing 100,000 copies, then after a radio interview when Namco announced that after the game sold 50,000 copies it's first week and then it was just downhill from there, VGCharts re-edited the numbers. Oh and don't even get me started about their past predictions of how Super Mario 64 sold twice the amount it did in Japan then it really did.

Basically if you're comparing games the first week they come out then yeah it's a decent indicator, but when Week 1 is over it's best to ignore the numbers completely from then on.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]"Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers." How can they be so far off at times then? I think they people they are getting data from, must not represent a good sample then.gromit007

When have they been so far off?

Can't exactly remember that vgchartz has been very far from.. Only thing I remember are stupid lemmings whinning about VGchartz not showing the number of xbox 360s sold too retailers (which would be stupid) that the lemmings think are sold too consumers..

Every month VGChartz is off by at least 20% on at least one console. Back in July, they were over 100,000 off on BOTH the 360 and PS3.

Dont expect VGChartz to match NPD, ever. NPD doesnt count quite a few major retailers like Wal Mart orTarget.

Which is why NPD's numbers never can be within 1% as some claim. Who is controling the correctness of NPD's numbers? Nobody....

The only guide we haveto figure out consoles sold to the consumers,areconsoles shipped based upon the big tree's own numbers. Those are never sold to consumer numbers unless they repeatedly sell out like the wii has since launch.

Therefore we must rely on numbers from tracking firms that estimate based upon samples. Until recently the only provider of these kinds of numbers was the NPD. We now have more sources (vgchartz) and that is great. Especially now that NPD may stop making their estimates public.......

just wait 4 the npd then add the numbersljlrj

Actually they releace their numbers ahead of NPD. So you are a bit off there....

Yep

People are just haters. Especially mjarantilla. They do give an idea and most of the time, they are close.

You can't just say they just throw guesses because most of the time, they are accurate.

People are just haters. Especially mjarantilla. They do give an idea and most of the time, they are close.

You can't just say they just throw guesses because most of the time, they are accurate.

XenogearsMaster

True, i just can't get my head around why sombody would not be in favour of what they are trying to accomplish at vgchartz.

They are breaking up a monopoly situation and providing all gamers with an exellent FREE service.

So what if they are not 100% accurate. They are accurate enough. And that is all we need.

Which is why NPD's numbers never can be within 1% as some claim. Who is controling the correctness of NPD's numbers? Nobody....

The only guide we haveto figure out consoles sold to the consumers,areconsoles shipped based upon the big tree's own numbers. Those are never sold to consumer numbers unless they repeatedly sell out like the wii has since launch.

Therefore we must rely on numbers from tracking firms that estimate based upon samples. Until recently the only provider of these kinds of numbers was the NPD. We now have more sources (vgchartz) and that is great. Especially now that NPD may stop making their estimates public.......

bobbo

Yes they can...

If you've not take any statistics I strongly suggest you stop arguing about something you don't know anything about.

Statements like "We can't tell you how we get our data, just trust us." make me less likely to believe them.

Having said that, what is the point of debating sales data? It makes no matter (nor should it) what a system is selling, unless you are a stockholder.

Yes, I know the argument of larger installed base = more support, but that adage does not really hold up much anyway, as 3rd parties are almost always multiplat regardless, and companies have many other ways to secure exclusives should they choose to.

Plain and simple, you should game for the enjoyment of playing games, not for trying to proclaim some silly measure of "success" on a game forum (sales, games flopping, cancellations, etc) when any and all success a system has has nothing to do with you yourself, nor does the company hold some special affinity for you.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

People are just haters. Especially mjarantilla. They do give an idea and most of the time, they are close.

You can't just say they just throw guesses because most of the time, they are accurate.

bobbo

True, i just can't get my head around why sombody would not be in favour of what they are trying to accomplish at vgchartz.

They are breaking up a monopoly situation and providing all gamers with an exellent FREE service.

So what if they are not 100% accurate. They are accurate enough. And that is all we need.

Nothing is 100% accurate...

And for something to be statistically accurate it needs to be with in 5%... 20% Suggest that there is something wrong with there sampling practices.

[QUOTE="bobbo"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

People are just haters. Especially mjarantilla. They do give an idea and most of the time, they are close.

You can't just say they just throw guesses because most of the time, they are accurate.

GundamGuy0

True, i just can't get my head around why sombody would not be in favour of what they are trying to accomplish at vgchartz.

They are breaking up a monopoly situation and providing all gamers with an exellent FREE service.

So what if they are not 100% accurate. They are accurate enough. And that is all we need.

Nothing is 100% accurate...

And for something to be statistically accurate it needs to be with in 5%... 20% Suggest that there is something wrong with there sampling practices.

Tracking games sales and hardware sales are quite complicated. It's not like asking 1000 people wether they are democrats or not. The number of variables are much higher.

What was the number og games/hardware shiped?

Did some stores get more than others?

Did some chains get more than others?

Did some chains sell out and others not?

Was some stores that was sold out tracked and some with plenty in stock not used in the data?

Bigger variables eaquals more errors. So yes they have been 20% off several times. But most of the time they are very close.

And when they are off ,they are off compeared to what? There are no official records anywhere at any given time where you can check if they are on target or not.....

NPD also estimated missing vital data from big chains.

Nothing is 100% accurate...

Bobbo I don't understand here. You are arguing that because NPD doesn't include a few major chain stores it is more or less as accurate as VGchartz which admits to "Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers." They give no details of who or how large their sample size is.

The 2 are not comparable as accurate sources. However, you appear to have made up your own mind and will ignore any evidence to the contrary. I guess if you support a certain console you are desperate for guesses and estimatesto be greater than fact.

Bobbo I don't understand here. You are arguing that because NPD doesn't include a few major chain stores it is more or less as accurate as VGchartz which admits to "Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers." They give no details of who or how large their sample size is.

The 2 are not comparable as accurate sources. However, you appear to have made up your own mind and will ignore any evidence to the contrary. I guess if you support a certain console you are desperate for guesses and estimatesto be greater than fact.

blue_hazy_basic

Currently i only own a 360 and pc. I am not a fanboy but a 34 year old gamer that like to follow the salestrends. My first gaming device was the Atari ST. (some of you probably wasn't born when i played games on that baby he he)Previously ownedconsoles have been N64, cube and an xbox. (always owned a pc aswell)

My point is simply that neither NPD nor vgchartz are always correct (or close to correct). There is no such thing as 100% accuracy or 99% for that matter for the US.

Both provide estimations only as good as their sources alow them to.

Npd miss large chains and internett stores. Hence miss out on certain key customers and therefore can never get the whole picture. Close, but not perfect like som like to believe.

Vgchartz track very small numbers compeared to NPD, but more store types (online, electric, toy,specialist etc)

Since they track small quantaties they also miss information and will never be perfect.

Bottom line is :Neither is perfect and sometimes off. However both provide data close enough to show salestrends for games and hardware.

As for evidence. Does anybody controle the NPD numbers verifying their correctness? Nope. So how anyone can claim that the NPD is sitting on the truth each month is beyond me....

NPD provide an estimate each month, just like vgchartz provide and estimate each week. Who is better/more accurate? Who knows.

I prefer vgchartz since they provide weekly numbers and have a great site layout. They also gather info from Europe and Japan all in one place.You can easily check who is infront or behind worldwide.

When official numbers are released from the bigtree,they update for both software and hardware.

Oh, and they are free.

NPD has finally gotten some competition and i call that a good thing.

Why anybody would want to undermine vgchartz is beyond me. Only ones i can think of are "hardcore" fanboys that doesn't like that the wii is infront and the ps3 far behind.

Not to forget the occational NPD employee of course, doing their best to talk trash about their competitor......

[QUOTE="bobbo"]

People in this forum go on and on about how you can't trust vgchartz numbers. Statements like "they just make them up" ,"they can't be trusted" ,"NPD is God" are all over the place.

Ioi, the founder of vgchartz have taken the time to explain how they get their numbers and also share abit of info about their future plans.

Good read that i highly recommend all you nai sayers and doubthers to read thoroughly. Anyone curious about vgchartz and what they do should read this aswell.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=629

Enjoy and discuss.

P.s : Comments like "they stink" or simular remarks are just a waste of time. That's how teens and children argue. Adults or reflected mature teens have learned to use arguments... Hint hint..... ;-)

mjarantilla

"Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will know that you don't need a large sample size to get good results, merely a good sample."

Bull****. You need BOTH. That's why NPD has a margin of error of less than 1%: they use both a large sample size and a good sample. And you know what? Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will also know that a margin of error of 15-20% is horrible. This guy is talking out of his ass.

He tries to downplay the fact that their statistics are so terrible, and fails miserably. He basically admits to being an effing pretender and pathetic conman when he says that their margin of error is 15-20%. I mean, consider this: if VGChartz says that the Xbox 360 sold 300,000 units in November, but admitting that their margin of error is 20%, then what that REALLY means is that their ACTUAL estimate for the 360's sales are between 240,000 and 360,000.

VGChartz is trash.

Take Statistics. You might learn something. Like how you don't need a large sample to get accurate data. Polls are regularly done by companies that have only a couple thousand people that represent the entire US with only a standard devition of a single percent or less.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="bobbo"]

People in this forum go on and on about how you can't trust vgchartz numbers. Statements like "they just make them up" ,"they can't be trusted" ,"NPD is God" are all over the place.

Ioi, the founder of vgchartz have taken the time to explain how they get their numbers and also share abit of info about their future plans.

Good read that i highly recommend all you nai sayers and doubthers to read thoroughly. Anyone curious about vgchartz and what they do should read this aswell.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=629

Enjoy and discuss.

P.s : Comments like "they stink" or simular remarks are just a waste of time. That's how teens and children argue. Adults or reflected mature teens have learned to use arguments... Hint hint..... ;-)

jeffwulf

"Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will know that you don't need a large sample size to get good results, merely a good sample."

Bull****. You need BOTH. That's why NPD has a margin of error of less than 1%: they use both a large sample size and a good sample. And you know what? Anyone with a background in statistical analysis will also know that a margin of error of 15-20% is horrible. This guy is talking out of his ass.

He tries to downplay the fact that their statistics are so terrible, and fails miserably. He basically admits to being an effing pretender and pathetic conman when he says that their margin of error is 15-20%. I mean, consider this: if VGChartz says that the Xbox 360 sold 300,000 units in November, but admitting that their margin of error is 20%, then what that REALLY means is that their ACTUAL estimate for the 360's sales are between 240,000 and 360,000.

VGChartz is trash.

Take Statistics. You might learn something. Like how you don't need a large sample to get accurate data. Polls are regularly done by companies that have only a couple thousand people that represent the entire US with only a standard devition of a single percent or less.

Think it was Mark Twain that once said. There is 3 forms of lies : lies , white lies (lieing with good intentions and statistics.)

The results of the statistics is only as good as the questions and peolpe asked. It depends entirely on the sources and where you get the answers.

So yes if you ask 1000 random people about a simple question like voting republican or democrat , you will get a very accurate statistic.

However if you want to find out how many heavanly swordgames have been sold.You will get different answers depending on the sources used.

Store type and customer base for each type of store comes into play. Units shipped totally and how manywere recieved in the stores you track. Did they get enough? did they sell out? could they easily have sold more if given more?. Is the online stores covered?

Do you cover all retail types ? Know how many copies each store got etc etc.

Tracking software sales is difficult. You will never be 100% correct ,but useing the right sources and estimations you can get close. Tracking hardware is easier, but still much more complicated than tracking who likes bmw's better than audi's.

Basically because these are complex merchandice to track... Again is all retail types and therefore customer demographics covered? How many units was shipped to the market?How many units did the tracked stores get? Did they sell out before the tracked sales period was over etc etc.

So again what i'm trying to say is. Vgchartz is good enough for us gamers to use to check salestrends. Not exact numbers,but they are close enough.

Is vgchartz less accurate than NPD. I don't know and i dare say , neither do you....

Is vgchartz less accurate than NPD. I don't know and i dare say , neither do you....

bobbo

No, nobody knows. Of course, it's possible to estimate the possibilities of each being closer, and NPD is overwhelmingly more likely to be accurate.

At 60% of the market polled with undisputed professionalism and experience, they're an imporant, intelligent team. A team who also happens to work with the three major console manufacturers.

The "NPD does not cover Wal-mart/online stores/is fixated in a single market so it can't be accurate" is blatantly useless, and I usually see it as the mark of someone who doesn't have the slightest idea of what he's talking about.

First of all, NPD accounts for different markets - and polls representatives of each type. It has 40 years of experience being the prime source for manufacturers and retailers. They kinda know what they're doing.

VGChartz, on the other hand, polls a small number of small chains. How can anyone see this and assume it's a better method than NPD's is beyond me. Actually, it's one of the worst possible samples you can have, as the smaller the store is, the smaller it's allotment, and the more a small deviation of that store with respect to the average will affect the final result.

VGChartz is basically useless if you want any relative accuracy. I'm sorry, but an average 15-20% margin is not "relative accuracy" in any way whatsoever unless you're predicting roulette results.

I consider VGChartz as being a decent database of the past (they do adjust), and I guess you can usually get an estimate that's going more or less in the correct direction if you for some reason can't wait for NPD, but considering them even remotely comparable is laughable.

[QUOTE="bobbo"]

Is vgchartz less accurate than NPD. I don't know and i dare say , neither do you....

Grive

No, nobody knows. Of course, it's possible to estimate the possibilities of each being closer, and NPD is overwhelmingly more likely to be accurate.

At 60% of the market polled with undisputed professionalism and experience, they're an imporant, intelligent team. A team who also happens to work with the three major console manufacturers.

The "NPD does not cover Wal-mart/online stores/is fixated in a single market so it can't be accurate" is blatantly useless, and I usually see it as the mark of someone who doesn't have the slightest idea of what he's talking about.

First of all, NPD accounts for different markets - and polls representatives of each type. It has 40 years of experience being the prime source for manufacturers and retailers. They kinda know what they're doing.

VGChartz, on the other hand, polls a small number of small chains. How can anyone see this and assume it's a better method than NPD's is beyond me. Actually, it's one of the worst possible samples you can have, as the smaller the store is, the smaller it's allotment, and the more a small deviation of that store with respect to the average will affect the final result.

VGChartz is basically useless if you want any relative accuracy. I'm sorry, but an average 15-20% margin is not "relative accuracy" in any way whatsoever unless you're predicting roulette results.

I consider VGChartz as being a decent database of the past (they do adjust), and I guess you can usually get an estimate that's going more or less in the correct direction if you for some reason can't wait for NPD, but considering them even remotely comparable is laughable.

I like a good laugh know and then, and who knows maybe sometime in the near future the laugh will be on you?

Never trust a company in a monopoly situation. That is what NPD is. They have until recently been without competition and in a situation where they have been controlling themselves.

So if you take all the numbers they release as solid thruth you are at best naive....

I hope vgchartz continue to grow and becomes a serious competitor to NPD. Now they are just anoying them, soon they will compete for real, and i'm looking forward to it ;-)

Never trust a company in a monopoly situation. That is what NPD is. They have until recently been without competition and in a situation where they have been controlling themselves.

So if you take all the numbers they release as solid thruth you are at best naive....

bobbo

ah, but what reason would they have to make up numbers?

I like a good laugh know and then, and who knows maybe sometime in the near future the laugh will be on you?

Never trust a company in a monopoly situation. That is what NPD is. They have until recently been without competition and in a situation where they have been controlling themselves.

So if you take all the numbers they release as solid thruth you are at best naive....

I hope vgchartz continue to grow and becomes a serious competitor to NPD. Now they are just anoying them, soon they will compete for real, and i'm looking forward to it ;-)

bobbo

Monopolys have no incentive to lie to it's consumers...

[QUOTE="bobbo"]

Never trust a company in a monopoly situation. That is what NPD is. They have until recently been without competition and in a situation where they have been controlling themselves.

So if you take all the numbers they release as solid thruth you are at best naive....

Hewkii

ah, but what reason would they have to make up numbers?

Not saying they are making up numbers. Just saying that nobody has the means to controle their numbers correctness. Not even themselves.

Basically their numbers are only as good as their metode. And their problem is not covering mayor chains like Walmart that have spesific customer demographics with spesific buying patterns that are hard to track without numbers.

Problems they face are :how many % of a game/hardware's total shippment goesto walmart?

Did Walmart sell out before the end of the tracking period?

Did they recieve additional shippments before the end of the tracking period?

They don't have this info and must guesstimate data from walmart. Getting it wrong from such a huge retail chain means uncorrect numbers overall.

I am not questioning the metode used buy NPD. I'm questioning some peoples attitude towards he NPD. Some seem to think they are the second coming of christ......

For the record, i do believe that NPD's numbers mostly are good and close to the truth. How close they are in reality no one knows.

Since vgchartz have been close to (varying from spot on to 20%) NPD numbers on a regular basis, i asume that vgchartz is pretty close to.

2 sources is always better than one.....

I like a good laugh know and then, and who knows maybe sometime in the near future the laugh will be on you?

Never trust a company in a monopoly situation. That is what NPD is. They have until recently been without competition and in a situation where they have been controlling themselves.

So if you take all the numbers they release as solid thruth you are at best naive....

I hope vgchartz continue to grow and becomes a serious competitor to NPD. Now they are just anoying them, soon they will compete for real, and i'm looking forward to it ;-)

bobbo

You really need to think things through instead before going all counterestablishment.

There is a very basic fact you simply ignore: NPD doesn't do it just because. It a business, and one whose clients are huge companies. Trust me on this one (I'm pretty sure you have absolutely no experience on this here) - you don't get to make up stuff to your heart's content and go away.

It's a very simple thing: NPD has no incentive whatsoever to lie, and a whole lot of it to be as accurate as possible. VGChartz has no clear incentive to go either way, and lacks the resources.

It's cute and all that you feel all distrustful of the big boys (I'm guessing you've been known to write "M$"), but there simply isn't a reason to in this case.

Yep

NECR0CHILD313

Agreed.

VGChartz is complete garbage. They have been so far off on their "estimates" that no gamer should take them seriously.

There's a reason why NPD, not VGC, is respected in the industry. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Npd miss large chains and internett stores. Hence miss out on certain key customers and therefore can never get the whole picture. Close, but not perfect like som like to believe.

Vgchartz track very small numbers compeared to NPD, but more store types (online, electric, toy,specialist etc)

bobbo

Sorry, but hold on a sec here.

You have absolutely no idea of the composition of these retailers VG Charts is talking to. They mention they speak to online sources, electric, toys, specialists, but they don't tell us how many, nor do they tell us the percentages of each. They also basically mention they can only speak to local sources, and can't communicate with national franchises to get a trend across the country.

At least with the NPD there's accountability, we know who their talking to. Yes, they miss out on guys like Walmart and the online stores, but it's reasonable to assume you can extrapolate the big picture.

But hey, the proof is in the pudding, this article admits each week their usually off by 10-20%.

I absolutely love the fact that people are in here saying that there's no way to truly know whether VGChartz or NPD are more reliable since nobody checks up on NPD numbers. Considering the fact that VGChartz has in the past changed their original numbers after NPD results are released I'd say that VGChartz knows damn well who's more reliable.myke2010

There are certain people and groups with a vested interest in trying to give VG some credibility. Its not going to happen and this thread should be left to die.

P.s : Comments like "they stink" or simular remarks are just a waste of time. That's how teens and children argue. Adults or reflected mature teens have learned to use arguments... Hint hint..... ;-)

bobbo

This is system wars, remember?

Not only is VGChartz regularly inaccurate, they are inaccurate in a very regular way. They almost always overestimate PS3 numbers and underestimate 360 numbers.

[QUOTE="myke2010"]I absolutely love the fact that people are in here saying that there's no way to truly know whether VGChartz or NPD are more reliable since nobody checks up on NPD numbers. Considering the fact that VGChartz has in the past changed their original numbers after NPD results are released I'd say that VGChartz knows damn well who's more reliable.blue_hazy_basic

There are certain people and groups with a vested interest in trying to give VG some credibility. Its not going to happen and this thread should be left to die.

First;I don't claim that the NPD is lying. I question how good their numbers really are compeared to the unknown real numbers.

I am posetive that NPD does as good as they can. But in my and others opinion missing numbers from big chains like Walmart makes it valid to question their numbers correctness.

Second ; Some seen to think that i have some sort of connection with vgchartz because i defend them. I do not. I just like them and what they are trying to achieve. Competition is good!!

Third :Some implied i had something to do with microsoft and the only connection there is me owning a 360 . Which i bougth for oblivion at launch. I have no favourite console and follow the industry because i find it interesting.

So to make it clear i'm norwegian and live in Oslo. I am here as a forum member and a gamer. Nothing more and nothing less..

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

[QUOTE="myke2010"]I absolutely love the fact that people are in here saying that there's no way to truly know whether VGChartz or NPD are more reliable since nobody checks up on NPD numbers. Considering the fact that VGChartz has in the past changed their original numbers after NPD results are released I'd say that VGChartz knows damn well who's more reliable.bobbo

There are certain people and groups with a vested interest in trying to give VG some credibility. Its not going to happen and this thread should be left to die.

First;I don't claim that the NPD is lying. I question how good their numbers really are compeared to the unknown real numbers.

I am posetive that NPD does as good as they can. But in my and others opinion missing numbers from big chains like Walmart makes it valid to question their numbers correctness.

Second ; Some seen to think that i have some sort of connection with vgchartz because i defend them. I do not. I just like them and what they are trying to achieve. Competition is good!!

Third :Some implied i had something to do with microsoft and the only connection there is me owning a 360 . Which i bougth for oblivion at launch. I have no favourite console and follow the industry because i find it interesting.

So to make it clear i'm norwegian and live in Osloo. I am here as a forum member and a gamer. Nothing more and nothing less..

EDIT and rather than continuing to go round in circles I'm outta here!

[QUOTE="bobbo"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

[QUOTE="myke2010"]I absolutely love the fact that people are in here saying that there's no way to truly know whether VGChartz or NPD are more reliable since nobody checks up on NPD numbers. Considering the fact that VGChartz has in the past changed their original numbers after NPD results are released I'd say that VGChartz knows damn well who's more reliable.blue_hazy_basic

There are certain people and groups with a vested interest in trying to give VG some credibility. Its not going to happen and this thread should be left to die.

First;I don't claim that the NPD is lying. I question how good their numbers really are compeared to the unknown real numbers.

I am posetive that NPD does as good as they can. But in my and others opinion missing numbers from big chains like Walmart makes it valid to question their numbers correctness.

Second ; Some seen to think that i have some sort of connection with vgchartz because i defend them. I do not. I just like them and what they are trying to achieve. Competition is good!!

Third :Some implied i had something to do with microsoft and the only connection there is me owning a 360 . Which i bougth for oblivion at launch. I have no favourite console and follow the industry because i find it interesting.

So to make it clear i'm norwegian and live in Osloo. I am here as a forum member and a gamer. Nothing more and nothing less..

EDIT and rather than continuing to go round in circles I'm outta here!

No problem. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that ;-)