how exactly does 60FPS make a football game better?

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myke2010

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#52 myke2010
Member since 2002 • 2747 Posts

[QUOTE="myke2010"]As to your silly movie 24 FPS comment, that number isn't used because it is the maximum FPS the human eye can see, but rather because it is considered the most efficient. More FPS equaled more film used. The bright flicker in movies created an afterimage after being displayed that stays with you as the next frame on screen is displayed. This creates the illusion of fluid motion. However, digital images capable of capturing film at a much higher rate has been shown to noticably improve movie quality. The 24 fps has been the staple not out of concern for picture quality, but out of habit. Newer movies shot with digital medium are raising the bar.jliebel

Grats on using looking it up ;) but once again you've taken things out of context. The average person doesn't notice anything more then 21 - 24 FPS, key word here average ;)

In movies, perhaps, however movies are shown in one frame at a time. TV's and PC monitors refresh continually in lines. The frame refresh rate is much more apparent.
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luigigreen

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#53 luigigreen
Member since 2005 • 4888 Posts
Truer words were never spoken. Just because it runs at 60 FPS will not make the game any different then other iterations.
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Velric

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#54 Velric
Member since 2003 • 3842 Posts

You will notice more animations at 60fps than you will at 30fps. Seeing both side to side or playing one after the other will leave you believing that the 30fps game is running choppy. What it is though is that the human eye can only see 24fps, but since you are not always seeing the same frame (seeing the same animation), you are getting more out of the 60fps.

If you are not experiencing both versions of a game, then there is nothing wrong with 30fps.

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steve17989

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#55 steve17989
Member since 2006 • 1020 Posts
[QUOTE="Dualshockin"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

360 owners: download the NCAA demo...then play the Madden demo.

PS3 owners: downlaod the Heavenly Sword demo...then play the Ninja Gaiden demo.

It almost feels like night and day when action gets intense.

Sir-Marwin105

That would've been a great blow to the Cows,but the sad part is,both the 360 games you mentioned are on the Ps3,whilst both the Ps3 games are nowhere on the 360.

What the hell are you talking about? He is talking about FPS, not the quality of the games.:|

lol, yeah, I was wondering why nobody picked up his mistake.

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myke2010

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#56 myke2010
Member since 2002 • 2747 Posts
The human eye is capable of seeing much more then 60 FPS. Want to test it yourself? If you have a CRT PC monitor set the refresh rate to 60 fps. Stare at the middle of the screen and if you have 20/20 vision you will see a slight flickering. This is more noticable on the edges of the screen. If the human eye was incapable of seeing more then 24 FPS this would not be possible. The actual max FPS by the average human eye is 72+ FPS, which is why this is now the staple minimum refresh rate for the manufacturers of PC monitors in order to achieve flicker free screens.
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zidura

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#57 zidura
Member since 2003 • 341 Posts
[QUOTE="myke2010"][QUOTE="jliebel"]

[QUOTE="en_V"]i would love to know. teh smooth'ness?jliebel

It doesn't make to much of a difference as the average person can only seen 21 - 24 FPS, anything more then that isn't noticable and things less are noticable.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Having only 21-24 fps would be very noticable. Gameplay would appear very choppy and stuttering and many games reviewed on GS have been docked points for it. If you don't believe me, go watch a cheap saturday morning cartoon, then go watch one of the classic Disney movies. The difference in how fluid the motion is will be instantly noticable to the casual viewer.

Actually no I am not, reason? 1.) Personally anything above 24 FPS I can't tell the difference. 2.) Most people I know besides a few(They aren't in the average) Can.

Also did you know that alot of films you see in the theature is done at 24 FPS ;)

Film is quite a different medium and for some pretty complicated reasons does not necessitate more than 24 FPS while games do. It has to do with the way images are rendered differently between film and graphics. But there are other reasons too. First of all: control. When you are controlling the movement of an object and it is only responding 24 or 30 times per second, it feels much less smooth and responsive than if it is checked 60 times per second. This is why it feels much better at 60 FPS than 30 FPS. Secondly, animation. The animation feels stuttered and jumpy with less frames per second. It is a clear and perceptible difference both visually and in the way it feels.

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Dualshockin

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#58 Dualshockin
Member since 2006 • 7826 Posts
[QUOTE="Dualshockin"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

360 owners: download the NCAA demo...then play the Madden demo.

PS3 owners: downlaod the Heavenly Sword demo...then play the Ninja Gaiden demo.

It almost feels like night and day when action gets intense.

Sir-Marwin105
That would've been a great blow to the Cows,but the sad part is,both the 360 games you mentioned are on the Ps3,whilst both the Ps3 games are nowhere on the 360.

What the hell are you talking about? He is talking about FPS, not the quality of the games.:|

Exactly,even with 30FPS,it is on Ps3. Now,can the same be said for the Ps3 games mentioned?
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Dualshockin

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#59 Dualshockin
Member since 2006 • 7826 Posts
Um Madden 04 to Madden 05 was a HUGE leap especially when it came to competitve play. I mean 2004 was the most broken Madden ever unbelievable how that game was released.Blackbond
The last Madden that delivered in terms of quality was when the Dreamcast was topic of discussion on a day to day basis. EA have to make the proper leap into current-gen if they want to see my money.
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Blackbond

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#60 Blackbond
Member since 2005 • 24516 Posts

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Um Madden 04 to Madden 05 was a HUGE leap especially when it came to competitve play. I mean 2004 was the most broken Madden ever unbelievable how that game was released.Dualshockin
The last Madden that delivered in terms of quality was when the Dreamcast was topic of discussion on a day to day basis. EA have to make the proper leap into current-gen if they want to see my money.

Wait so AA games aren't quality anymore. Whatever you say man :roll:

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Dualshockin

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#61 Dualshockin
Member since 2006 • 7826 Posts

[QUOTE="Dualshockin"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]Um Madden 04 to Madden 05 was a HUGE leap especially when it came to competitve play. I mean 2004 was the most broken Madden ever unbelievable how that game was released.Blackbond

The last Madden that delivered in terms of quality was when the Dreamcast was topic of discussion on a day to day basis. EA have to make the proper leap into current-gen if they want to see my money.

Wait so AA games aren't quality anymore. Whatever you say man :roll:

For a Sports franchise,it is crucial to maintain a consistently good score with each new release.This ensures brand loyalty+general progression through time. With EA,each new release is IMO only a fresh coat of paint and a roster update.Yes,these can satisfy a sports fan,but I personally want more than a few new jerseys and slightly shinier helmets.
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swamprat_basic

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#62 swamprat_basic
Member since 2002 • 9145 Posts

As to your silly movie 24 FPS comment, that number isn't used because it is the maximum FPS the human eye can see, but rather because it is considered the most efficient. More FPS equaled more film used. The bright flicker in movies created an afterimage after being displayed that stays with you as the next frame on screen is displayed. This creates the illusion of fluid motion. However, digital images capable of capturing film at a much higher rate has been shown to noticably improve movie quality. The 24 fps has been the staple not out of concern for picture quality, but out of habit. Newer movies shot with digital medium are raising the bar. More importantly, the reason the movie analogy doesn't work here is movies show one still frame at a time. TV's continually refresh in lines. The distinction in frames is much more apparent.myke2010

Absolutely incorrect. Couldn't be further from the truth. Most, if not all, professional movies, even the new ones shot on HD, use 24 fps. The difference between film and games is that there is motion blur when something is filmed, which hides the gaps between the frames. It is in the actual film frames themselves, not some illusion. If what you said were possible, they could do that in games as well. But it is not possible.

Increasing the frame-rate has definitely not been shown to "noticeably improve movie quality," in fact it somewhat detracts from the experience. Tests run in the opposite direction of what you are saying. It looks more like reality television, which people do not seem to like. There is a huge difference.

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myke2010

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#63 myke2010
Member since 2002 • 2747 Posts

[QUOTE="myke2010"]As to your silly movie 24 FPS comment, that number isn't used because it is the maximum FPS the human eye can see, but rather because it is considered the most efficient. More FPS equaled more film used. The bright flicker in movies created an afterimage after being displayed that stays with you as the next frame on screen is displayed. This creates the illusion of fluid motion. However, digital images capable of capturing film at a much higher rate has been shown to noticably improve movie quality. The 24 fps has been the staple not out of concern for picture quality, but out of habit. Newer movies shot with digital medium are raising the bar. More importantly, the reason the movie analogy doesn't work here is movies show one still frame at a time. TV's continually refresh in lines. The distinction in frames is much more apparent.swamprat_basic

Absolutely incorrect. Couldn't be further from the truth. Most, if not all, professional movies, even the new ones shot on HD, use 24 fps. The difference between film and games is that there is motion blur when something is filmed, which hides the gaps between the frames. It is in the actual film frames themselves, not some illusion. If what you said were possible, they could do that in games as well. But it is not possible.

Increasing the frame-rate has definitely not been shown to "noticeably improve movie quality," in fact it somewhat detracts from the experience. Tests run in the opposite direction of what you are saying. It looks more like reality television, which people do not seem to like. There is a huge difference.

Am I misunderstanding you or are you saying motion blur isn't possible in games? They've been doing it for over a year now. I assume you were instead referring to why they can't use the afterimage to create the illusion of more fluid motion on TV. I already covered that, movies use flashing light to display one image at a time, TV continually updates the image in a series of line. However, you are correct that motion blur is indeed captured on film. As for the increasing frame-rate not being shown to "noticeably improve movie quality", that is not true. People don't prefer it right now because it in fact looks "too real". People have come to expect a certain quality from movies due to the 24 fps standard. When people were tested with higher FPS movies they found that quality lacking because much more action was captured on the media giving it an "unnaturally smooth" look. Note that people didn't actually say that it didn't look better, but rather that they preferred the 24 fps they were used to getting, but preferences change over time and there is no certainty one way or the other as to how movie studios will evolve because of this. In any case these preferences are irrelevant to my actual point, which is the human eye can indeed perceive much more then 24 fps as shown through numerous studies.
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Greyhound222

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#64 Greyhound222
Member since 2005 • 2899 Posts
Not to bash PS3,but 60 frames is smoother than 30 frames,so that's why it's better,though it might possibly control better on PS3.
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madmidnight

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#65 madmidnight
Member since 2004 • 2066 Posts
Well I think it makes the game a lot smoother, framrate is why i traded in my copy of madden 06 for 360, i may just buy 08 this year because of the smoothness, (and because my most recent copy of madden is from 02 now) Espn nfl 2k5 FTW.
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D0013ER

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#66 D0013ER
Member since 2007 • 3765 Posts

i would love to know. teh smooth'ness?en_V

I'd love nothing more than the travel to Opposite Land just briefly enough to watch you post a thread about how the PS3's version of Madden running 30 fps faster than the 360 version is a big deal...

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furtherfan

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#67 furtherfan
Member since 2007 • 3699 Posts
it's not just that the ps3 version is 30fps. even in 30fps, it had lots of slowdowns, hickups and unstable framerate