How is this a valid arguement against Smash Bros.?

"The formula is getting old."

Using that logic, the formula for Halo is old. The formula for Final Fantasy is old. The formula for ever friggen FPS out there is getting old cause it's basically the same formula. STOP USING THIS ARGUMENT NOW.

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.

But what exactly is meant by "the formula is old" anyway? Obviously it's not true of Halo since that would have taken away from the score, but what do people say is so old in SSB?

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.

But what exactly is meant by "the formula is old" anyway? Obviously it's not true of Halo since that would have taken away from the score, but what do people say is so old in SSB?

Vyse_The_Daring

Mostly dumb crap like "it's the exact same thing as the last game."

Halo games are way more similar than Smash brothers games, cause in smash brothers games, the characters themselves change, more characters are added, and other things that I'm to lazy to type.

what formula??? I haven't played the new one yet but if LOZ:TP, and MP3 is any hint of the future of nintendo then Smash Bros will pretty much be an Smash Bros. update. Though nintendo has been the most innovative w/ hardware they've really dissapointed my with software innovation this gen.

FF though I don't like the series has made some pretty big changes over the years, and it's been anything but stale.

Same goes for Halo - Halo 1 was a slow paced, 1on1 tactical shooter, and Halo 2 was much more fast paced, team based shooter. I haven't played Halo 3 yet but I doubt it's anything like the first 2 as far as shooters go.

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.

But what exactly is meant by "the formula is old" anyway? Obviously it's not true of Halo since that would have taken away from the score, but what do people say is so old in SSB?

Vyse_The_Daring

Of course its a old formula as mostly every game is, why did it get a 9.5? Subjectivity. Personally I hate Halo and wouldn't of gave it a 9.5..probably a 7.0 or something. But thats my opinion, just like those who rated it a 9.5 is theirs.

"The formula is getting old."

Using that logic, the formula for Halo is old. The formula for Final Fantasy is old. The formula for ever friggen FPS out there is getting old cause it's basically the same formula. STOP USING THIS ARGUMENT NOW.

HappySunnGuy

The formula is the same for Halo 3 and it got 9.5. The formula is the same for Metroid Prime 3 and it got 8.5... It could go both ways. If Gamespot adds in their bias even for this review, then expect that complaint from the reviewer.

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.Vyse_The_Daring

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.

But what exactly is meant by "the formula is old" anyway? Obviously it's not true of Halo since that would have taken away from the score, but what do people say is so old in SSB?

Vyse_The_Daring

honestly its not that amazing it gets owned in every way when compaired to a game like crysis...way overated by gamespot... i expect crysis to get a 10..or 11..lol

what formula??? I haven't played the new one yet but if LOZ:TP, and MP3 is any hint of the future of nintendo then Smash Bros will pretty much be an Smash Bros. update. Though nintendo has been the most innovative w/ hardware they've really dissapointed my with software innovation this gen.

FF though I don't like the series has made some pretty big changes over the years, and it's been anything but stale.

Same goes for Halo - Halo 1 was a slow paced, 1on1 tactical shooter, and Halo 2 was much more fast paced, team based shooter. I haven't played Halo 3 yet but I doubt it's anything like the first 2 as far as shooters go.

jrhawk42

Halo 3 is Halo 2 with a slightly different button layout, some new weapons, new maps, and some added game modes. Other than that, its the exact same.

This is also only the third game in the series.sexy_chimp

And Halo 3 is what number?

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.Saturos3091

quote?

i don't think many people have been saying that...

i don't think many people have been saying that...

BuryMe

Someone called it a "rehash"

Just like when Ratchet and Clank fans call Mario a rehashed series even though it's only on it's 7th game in 20 years and Ratchet and Clank is on it's 5th or 4th in 5 years.

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.CaseyWegner

quote?

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.Saturos3091

quote?

Yet Metroid being the same is a negative. Face it Casey, that is not fair.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.Saturos3091

quote?

lol that just happened

[QUOTE="jrhawk42"]

what formula??? I haven't played the new one yet but if LOZ:TP, and MP3 is any hint of the future of nintendo then Smash Bros will pretty much be an Smash Bros. update. Though nintendo has been the most innovative w/ hardware they've really dissapointed my with software innovation this gen.

FF though I don't like the series has made some pretty big changes over the years, and it's been anything but stale.

Same goes for Halo - Halo 1 was a slow paced, 1on1 tactical shooter, and Halo 2 was much more fast paced, team based shooter. I haven't played Halo 3 yet but I doubt it's anything like the first 2 as far as shooters go.

HappySunnGuy

Halo 3 is Halo 2 with a slightly different button layout, some new weapons, new maps, and some added game modes. Other than that, its the exact same.

You listed off quite a lot of new things, Smash Bros Brawl is Melee with new characters, a new coat and crippled online, so if Halo 3 isn't original enough with all of the things you listed, then I don't think Brawl is even justified as a different title.

There's a difference between an old formula and an old refined formula.

I'm sure many people will say that Halo's formula hasn't changed much in three years but at least Bungie makes attempts at refining the combat while adding a few things without needing a complete overhaul (ex. Sword Clashing in Halo 3).

Smash Bros. Brawl is being refined. Heavy characters are finally getting the "Super Armor" they needed in Melee, every character is getting blessed with a third jump/meteor smash, elements like gliding are being tossed in and Nintendo is making sure every character plays differently enough (Ex. Pokemon Trainer, Mario's FLUDD addition). Brawl's formula may technically be the same but the additions and refinement will differentiate itself from both Smash 64 and Melee.

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.sexy_chimp

quote?

Yet Metroid being the same is a negative. Face it Casey, that is not fair.

tell me, what new features did mp3 add?

[QUOTE="HappySunnGuy"][QUOTE="jrhawk42"]

what formula??? I haven't played the new one yet but if LOZ:TP, and MP3 is any hint of the future of nintendo then Smash Bros will pretty much be an Smash Bros. update. Though nintendo has been the most innovative w/ hardware they've really dissapointed my with software innovation this gen.

FF though I don't like the series has made some pretty big changes over the years, and it's been anything but stale.

Same goes for Halo - Halo 1 was a slow paced, 1on1 tactical shooter, and Halo 2 was much more fast paced, team based shooter. I haven't played Halo 3 yet but I doubt it's anything like the first 2 as far as shooters go.

ZanuffC

Halo 3 is Halo 2 with a slightly different button layout, some new weapons, new maps, and some added game modes. Other than that, its the exact same.

You listed off quite a lot of new things, Smash Bros Brawl is Melee with new characters, a new coat and crippled online, so if Halo 3 isn't original enough with all of the things you listed, then I don't think Brawl is even justified as a different title.

BRAWL:

new maps

new items

online

new characters

changed characters

new game modes

custom game modes

custom controls

controller diversity

final smashes

graphics and physics upgrade

new single player adventure

completely new types of items (assist trophies)

footstool jump

gliding

And there is new information coming every weekday

Halo 3:

completes the "story"

graphics and physics upgrade

new game modes

map maker

video editor

new button layout (can't customize, but you can choose from 3 or 4 lay outs)

some new weapons

and Halo is already out, so we know all the new things it has to offer.

Doesn't matter.

It's a good thing for Halo to be the same.

But it's a bad thing for Metroid to be the same.

sexy_chimp

wrong. answer the question. what new featuers did metroid prime 3 add?

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

Doesn't matter.

It's a good thing for Halo to be the same.

But it's a bad thing for Metroid to be the same.

CaseyWegner

wrong. answer the question. what new featuers did metroid prime 3 add?

It doesn't matter. That's not the point because I'm not saying it's different. The reviewer took points off for it being the same, but didn't take points off of Halo for being the same.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

Doesn't matter.

It's a good thing for Halo to be the same.

But it's a bad thing for Metroid to be the same.

sexy_chimp

wrong. answer the question. what new featuers did metroid prime 3 add?

It doesn't matter. That's not the point because I'm not saying it's different. The reviewer took points off for it being the same, but didn't take points off of Halo for being the same.

wrong. answer the question.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

tell me, what new features did mp3 add?

sexy_chimp

Doesn't matter.

It's a good thing for Halo to be the same.

But it's a bad thing for Metroid to be the same.

Yes it does.

The gameplay same-ness isn't bad in and of itself, if it isn't fit into solely the same types of gameplay. The new features of Halo 3 expand the gameplay, changing how it is used, and making it feel less stale.

SSBB seems to be doing a similar thing in its differentiation of characters, more dynamic maps, a more varied singleplayer mode, and online play. A refined, similar core is fine when it is used in new ways.

You listed off quite a lot of new things, Smash Bros Brawl is Melee with new characters, a new coat and crippled online, so if Halo 3 isn't original enough with all of the things you listed, then I don't think Brawl is even justified as a different title.ZanuffC

Though, since this is a fighting game, new characters is quite huge.

there's much more to smash brosthen the basic 4 man fighting. Melee had a bunch ofextra interesting modes, unlockable characters, and challenges; and its looking likebrawl will similarly receive alot of extra features.Brawl introduces a new adventure mode that seems to be far better flushed out then ever, by introducing the subspace emissary.Smash bros brawl seems to have refined alot of things too, such asSpecial brawl in which you can customize your fights much more then you could before. Then there is the new addition of final smash, which is definitly going to have a huge impact oneach fight. You implying the addition of online isn't a huge step forward, or at least a big addition? Also, we haven't heard much about the online to know that its "crippled".

i find it funny that someone would rag on brawl for being "old" or something. It's not like we see alot of 4 man fighting games that play like smash.

A game doesn't need to ooze innovation or originality to be good. Bioshock was a watered down system shock 2, but its still hailed as one of the best games this gen.

[QUOTE="ZanuffC"]You listed off quite a lot of new things, Smash Bros Brawl is Melee with new characters, a new coat and crippled online, so if Halo 3 isn't original enough with all of the things you listed, then I don't think Brawl is even justified as a different title.blahzor

Though, since this is a fighting game, new characters is quite huge.

there's much more to smash brosthen the basic 4 man fighting. Melee had a bunch ofextra interesting modes, unlockable characters, and challenges; and its looking likebrawl will similarly receive alot of extra features.Brawl introduces a new adventure mode that seems to be far better flushed out then ever, by introducing the subspace emissary.Smash bros brawl seems to have refined alot of things too, such asSpecial brawl in which you can customize your fights much more then you could before. Then there is the new addition of final smash, which is definitly going to have a huge impact oneach fight. You implying the addition of online isn't a huge step forward, or at least a big addition? Also, we haven't heard much about the online to know that its "crippled".

i find it funny that someone would rag on brawl for being "old" or something. It's not like we see alot of 4 man fighting games that play like smash.

A game doesn't need to ooze innovation or originality to be good. Bioshock was a watered down system shock 2, but its still hailed as one of the best games this gen.

*points to my last post*

I already got him on that.:P

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

tell me, what new features did mp3 add?

sonicmj1

Doesn't matter.

It's a good thing for Halo to be the same.

But it's a bad thing for Metroid to be the same.

Yes it does.

The gameplay same-ness isn't bad in and of itself, if it isn't fit into solely the same types of gameplay. The new features of Halo 3 expand the gameplay, changing how it is used, and making it feel less stale.

SSBB seems to be doing a similar thing in its differentiation of characters, more dynamic maps, a more varied singleplayer mode, and online play. A refined, similar core is fine when it is used in new ways.

Did the reviewer say that, or did you?

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.CaseyWegner

quote?

Yet Metroid being the same is a negative. Face it Casey, that is not fair.

tell me, what new features did mp3 add?

New and better controls, token system, more action, less backtracking, interactive ship, better storyline than last 2, voice acting,

Plus it is quite obious to me that although some of the original Metroid forumula is worse and the weapons/visors are less interesting the game is alot more fun. GS said the game was to easy...try verteran or hypermode yet they mention the harder diffculties in Halo 3 review. Obious bias to me. Metroid is definatley an AAA game.

[QUOTE="ZanuffC"]You listed off quite a lot of new things, Smash Bros Brawl is Melee with new characters, a new coat and crippled online, so if Halo 3 isn't original enough with all of the things you listed, then I don't think Brawl is even justified as a different title.blahzor

Though, since this is a fighting game, new characters is quite huge.

It doesn't really matter when over half the characters are low tier, and the high tier was limited to about 5 characters that every single person played at tournaments, people might say "Oh but I don't play tournaments" but the point is, having so many low tier means they are mostly useless in any kind of match, so maybe now with new characters you might have like 7 or 8 playable characters at a serious level, and do belive the people you'll play in the useless online mode will probably be a lot of higher skill players who know those 5 or 6 characters that were top tier before, therefore, killing the vast majority of the balance in the game.

[QUOTE="jrhawk42"]

what formula??? I haven't played the new one yet but if LOZ:TP, and MP3 is any hint of the future of nintendo then Smash Bros will pretty much be an Smash Bros. update. Though nintendo has been the most innovative w/ hardware they've really dissapointed my with software innovation this gen.

FF though I don't like the series has made some pretty big changes over the years, and it's been anything but stale.

Same goes for Halo - Halo 1 was a slow paced, 1on1 tactical shooter, and Halo 2 was much more fast paced, team based shooter. I haven't played Halo 3 yet but I doubt it's anything like the first 2 as far as shooters go.

HappySunnGuy

Halo 3 is Halo 2 with a slightly different button layout, some new weapons, new maps, and some added game modes. Other than that, its the exact same.

This is also only the third game in the series.sexy_chimp

And Halo 3 is what number?

That and some updated/beatuiful graphics, forge, And the great old Halo gameplay, That is the formulafor a AAA,

Metroid was the same thing, New stuff, Good graphics considering the system its on, And some metroid gameplay. But it was only the formula for a 8.5. Halo is just better according to gamespot. Get over it.

[QUOTE="blahzor"]

[QUOTE="ZanuffC"]You listed off quite a lot of new things, Smash Bros Brawl is Melee with new characters, a new coat and crippled online, so if Halo 3 isn't original enough with all of the things you listed, then I don't think Brawl is even justified as a different title.ZanuffC

Though, since this is a fighting game, new characters is quite huge.

It doesn't really matter when over half the characters are low tier, and the high tier was limited to about 5 characters that every single person played at tournaments, people might say "Oh but I don't play tournaments" but the point is, having so many low tier means they are mostly useless in any kind of match, so maybe now with new characters you might have like 7 or 8 playable characters at a serious level, and do belive the people you'll play in the useless online mode will probably be a lot of higher skill players who know those 5 or 6 characters that were top tier before, therefore, killing the vast majority of the balance in the game.

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

If the Halo formula was old, it wouldn't have received a 9.5. inb4tehbias.Saturos3091

quote?

I don't think the term"formula" is the same thing as "gameplay". I would think that the formula would entail everything about the game, gameplay AND all the other things that make up the game.

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

sexy_chimp

Your saying you try to lose then? I've never played a game intending to do anything other then win.

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

ZanuffC

Your saying you try to lose then? I've never played a game intending to do anything other then win.

Then you need to stop playing games.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

tell me, what new features did mp3 add?

sexy_chimp

Doesn't matter.

It's a good thing for Halo to be the same.

But it's a bad thing for Metroid to be the same.

Yes it does.

The gameplay same-ness isn't bad in and of itself, if it isn't fit into solely the same types of gameplay. The new features of Halo 3 expand the gameplay, changing how it is used, and making it feel less stale.

SSBB seems to be doing a similar thing in its differentiation of characters, more dynamic maps, a more varied singleplayer mode, and online play. A refined, similar core is fine when it is used in new ways.

Did the reviewer say that, or did you?

Did you see how Forge is described?

"But in practice, [Forge is] a weird and potential-rich addition to the game because there are a ton of little secrets and tricks you can use to manipulate the objects in ways the developers may not have intended."

"However, it's the addition of the Forge level editor and the saved films that give the game an even longer set of legs, legs that will probably keep you running at full speed until Bungie figures out where, exactly, to go from here."

These features were not present in Halo 2, and clearly have a large impact on how the game was viewed and how it was scored for the very reasons I mentioned above.

[QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

sexy_chimp

Your saying you try to lose then? I've never played a game intending to do anything other then win.

Then you need to stop playing games.

I don't get it, I play like FPS games, RPGs, Action games and Fighters as my main genres, like what do you do when you play?

Hey Player 2, I think I might win, I'll just stand here, go for the head shot? Seriously, I mean, I have fun competing and trying to win, sure I lose too, everyone does, but its not like I'll play a game with intention to lose.

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

tell me, what new features did mp3 add?

sonicmj1

Doesn't matter.

It's a good thing for Halo to be the same.

But it's a bad thing for Metroid to be the same.

Yes it does.

The gameplay same-ness isn't bad in and of itself, if it isn't fit into solely the same types of gameplay. The new features of Halo 3 expand the gameplay, changing how it is used, and making it feel less stale.

SSBB seems to be doing a similar thing in its differentiation of characters, more dynamic maps, a more varied singleplayer mode, and online play. A refined, similar core is fine when it is used in new ways.

Did the reviewer say that, or did you?

Did you see how Forge is described?

"But in practice, [Forge is] a weird and potential-rich addition to the game because there are a ton of little secrets and tricks you can use to manipulate the objects in ways the developers may not have intended."

"However, it's the addition of the Forge level editor and the saved films that give the game an even longer set of legs, legs that will probably keep you running at full speed until Bungie figures out where, exactly, to go from here."

These features were not present in Halo 2, and clearly have a large impact on how the game was viewed and how it was scored for the very reasons I mentioned above.

Okay then, I stand corrected.

At least you answered me.

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

ZanuffC

Your saying you try to lose then? I've never played a game intending to do anything other then win.

Then you need to stop playing games.

I don't get it, I play like FPS games, RPGs, Action games and Fighters as my main genres, like what do you do when you play?

Hey Player 2, I think I might win, I'll just stand here, go for the head shot? Seriously, I mean, I have fun competing and trying to win, sure I lose too, everyone does, but its not like I'll play a game with intention to lose.

In Smash Bros if I wanted to win I would always pick my best character. However, since I want to have fun, I will pick a character I barely use and then try to win.

[QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

sexy_chimp

Your saying you try to lose then? I've never played a game intending to do anything other then win.

Then you need to stop playing games.

I don't get it, I play like FPS games, RPGs, Action games and Fighters as my main genres, like what do you do when you play?

Hey Player 2, I think I might win, I'll just stand here, go for the head shot? Seriously, I mean, I have fun competing and trying to win, sure I lose too, everyone does, but its not like I'll play a game with intention to lose.

In Smash Bros if I wanted to win I would always pick my best character. However, since I want to have fun, I will pick a character I barely use and then try to win.

Yes, but woulden't it be much more fun if that random character you barely used, wasn't most likely crippled and no matter how well you played he would never be as good as a high tier character?

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

ZanuffC

Your saying you try to lose then? I've never played a game intending to do anything other then win.

Then you need to stop playing games.

I don't get it, I play like FPS games, RPGs, Action games and Fighters as my main genres, like what do you do when you play?

Hey Player 2, I think I might win, I'll just stand here, go for the head shot? Seriously, I mean, I have fun competing and trying to win, sure I lose too, everyone does, but its not like I'll play a game with intention to lose.

In Smash Bros if I wanted to win I would always pick my best character. However, since I want to have fun, I will pick a character I barely use and then try to win.

Yes, but woulden't it be much more fun if that random character you barely used, wasn't most likely crippled and no matter how well you played he would never be as good as a high tier character?

No, because the person I'm playing would also probably be playing a low-tier character. Honestly I don't care if I win or lose anyway.

[QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="ZanuffC"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

That's why you play for fun, not to win.

sexy_chimp

Your saying you try to lose then? I've never played a game intending to do anything other then win.

Then you need to stop playing games.

I don't get it, I play like FPS games, RPGs, Action games and Fighters as my main genres, like what do you do when you play?

Hey Player 2, I think I might win, I'll just stand here, go for the head shot? Seriously, I mean, I have fun competing and trying to win, sure I lose too, everyone does, but its not like I'll play a game with intention to lose.

In Smash Bros if I wanted to win I would always pick my best character. However, since I want to have fun, I will pick a character I barely use and then try to win.

Yes, but woulden't it be much more fun if that random character you barely used, wasn't most likely crippled and no matter how well you played he would never be as good as a high tier character?

No, because the person I'm playing would also probably be playing a low-tier character. Honestly I don't care if I win or lose anyway.

Alright, fair enough, I suppose there is different mindsets between hardcore fighter players and party fighter players v_v

[QUOTE="blahzor"]

[QUOTE="ZanuffC"]You listed off quite a lot of new things, Smash Bros Brawl is Melee with new characters, a new coat and crippled online, so if Halo 3 isn't original enough with all of the things you listed, then I don't think Brawl is even justified as a different title.ZanuffC

Though, since this is a fighting game, new characters is quite huge.

It doesn't really matter when over half the characters are low tier, and the high tier was limited to about 5 characters that every single person played at tournaments, people might say "Oh but I don't play tournaments" but the point is, having so many low tier means they are mostly useless in any kind of match, so maybe now with new characters you might have like 7 or 8 playable characters at a serious level, and do belive the people you'll play in the useless online mode will probably be a lot of higher skill players who know those 5 or 6 characters that were top tier before, therefore, killing the vast majority of the balance in the game.

Actually, new characters do matter.. alot. So does the chance to refine existing characters.

err... we know the tiers for smash brothers brawl? Perhaps brawl has been refined enough so that the distance between some of the lowest tier guys(*sigh* poor bowser...) is such that they do notget smoked by the higher tier guys. Anyways, its perfectly possible for most people to win using a lower characters.. though in tournaments they are not likely to be found.. but in general, it is possible. Very few characters, if any, are so useless that they are just not usable.. in melee.. what brawl offers we do not know