How much will Sony lie during E3 2007?

[QUOTE="Kestastrophe"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

ignores MS's tendancy to put outa press release everytime they feel they've accopmlished something.

ZIMdoom

Talk about double-standards. You think that Sony's exaggerations (of which there are many well documented incidents) should be absolved by the media but that MS should be held accountable for PR spun press releases? I am not seeing your benevolent "dounle-standard" angle at all.

**Now your ignorance and illiteracy is trying my patience**. I have posted three seperate times that Sony has done a number or stupid things, said a number of stupid things and has terrible PR,and they should rightly be criticised for it. YOU stated they do it more than others and then when I point out that they don't, you respond with "Well you think Sony should get a free pass".

I'm sorry, but that comment of yours was completely idiotic and tells me you either can't read or are willfully ignorant as to what I am saying. I didn't think it was complicated. You clearly would much rather debate what you THINK I'm saying instead of what I'm ACTUALLY saying. Talk to me when when you want to have a logical discussion on the issue at hand and have stopped going off on tangents and building straw men.

** I think you meant to say: Now your ignorance and illiteracy ARE trying my patience.

I don't know why I am receiving this hostility as I have not been hostile towards you.

You discredited the article by saying that 1up ignored MS' press releases. However, you failed to mention that the article does not address PR spun press releases of any kind. It addresses the ridiculous claims of all the console manufacturers, not just Sony. Thus, the mere fact that you bring up the timing of MS' press releases (some may argue that this is trivial) suggests a different double standard. For example, should timed press releases carry as much weight as misleading statements?

[QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

well there it is, if Jack was asked the question and said, "Ted wanted you all to know that it was gameplay.", then he was talking about Ted Price, CEO and founder of Insomniac, developer of Resistance. Ted Price has no affiliation with Killzone.

eclipsed4utoo

If thats what he said then there is no confusion whatsoever, and no lie. Just misunderstanding on the press/general publics part.

Someone mentioned them not launching when they said they would - again not a lie, that is a broken promise - a lie is saying something you know isn't true.

Yeah, but Sony isn't doing much to clear the air. Maybe I missed it but I tried searching for it and so far there is no info from Sony on exactly what the KZ2 trailer was and how they did it. If there is someone please link it for me.

Sony is purposely leaving the idea that KZ2 is in-engine/realtime out there and by saying things like "Ted Wanted you all to know that it was gameplay" when everyone was wondering about KZ2's gameplay makes no sense. And is purposely deceitful. Who the heck wanted to know if R:FOM was real gameplay. It didn't look that amazing to make people so OMG...that can't be real. R:FOM looks nice but is definitely not amazing as is the KZ2 trailer.

Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton's: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (pointing his finger at a random women in the audience or thinking of Madeline Albright) but everyone took him to mean Monica Lewinski. Sure by thelegal sense of the word it may not perfury, but it is a lie to everyone else.

dude, it was almost 2 years ago. EVERYBODY knows it was CGI. Sony doesn't have to release anything. Even one of the developers for Guerilla Games said it was CGI.

Provide a link from Guerilla saying it was CGI and I will admit I'm wrong. However, I want Guerilla saying the actual words "CGI", not "rendered", not "not gameplay", not "not on PS3 hardware".

** I think you meant to say: Now your ignorance and illiteracy ARE trying my patience.

I don't know why I am receiving this hostility as I have not been hostile towards you.

You discredited the article by saying that 1up ignored MS' press releases. However, you failed to mention that the article does not address PR spun press releases of any kind. It addresses the ridiculous claims of all the console manufacturers, not just Sony. Thus, the mere fact that you bring up the timing of MS' press releases (some may argue that this is trivial) suggests a different double standard. For example, should timed press releases carry as much weight as misleading statements?

Kestastrophe

Excuse me for not spell checking. It is no defense for your lack of reading my past comments and understanding what I am clearly saying.

1) You said Sony is far worse and exadgerates far more than anyone.

2) I said all companies do it and if you attack one you should attack them all. I back this up with similar actions from MS.

3) You change the subject and accuse me of not criticising Sony for PR tactics when I have stated NUMEROUS times that Sony does this and does it stupidly and terribly.

4) I misspoke when I saidthat 1up "ignored"things. Myintent was to point out(as I state in full context)that the articlewas written before other ample evidence has come forward.

there'll always be plenty of lies in a sony conference .. maybe not as much as in the past, but you never know

they'll prob inflate shipped / sold figures to make the PS3 look good

and they'll prob say that some game is exclusive when it won't be

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

well there it is, if Jack was asked the question and said, "Ted wanted you all to know that it was gameplay.", then he was talking about Ted Price, CEO and founder of Insomniac, developer of Resistance. Ted Price has no affiliation with Killzone.

ZIMdoom

If thats what he said then there is no confusion whatsoever, and no lie. Just misunderstanding on the press/general publics part.

Someone mentioned them not launching when they said they would - again not a lie, that is a broken promise - a lie is saying something you know isn't true.

Yeah, but Sony isn't doing much to clear the air. Maybe I missed it but I tried searching for it and so far there is no info from Sony on exactly what the KZ2 trailer was and how they did it. If there is someone please link it for me.

Sony is purposely leaving the idea that KZ2 is in-engine/realtime out there and by saying things like "Ted Wanted you all to know that it was gameplay" when everyone was wondering about KZ2's gameplay makes no sense. And is purposely deceitful. Who the heck wanted to know if R:FOM was real gameplay. It didn't look that amazing to make people so OMG...that can't be real. R:FOM looks nice but is definitely not amazing as is the KZ2 trailer.

Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton's: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (pointing his finger at a random women in the audience or thinking of Madeline Albright) but everyone took him to mean Monica Lewinski. Sure by thelegal sense of the word it may not perfury, but it is a lie to everyone else.

dude, it was almost 2 years ago. EVERYBODY knows it was CGI. Sony doesn't have to release anything. Even one of the developers for Guerilla Games said it was CGI.

Provide a link from Guerilla saying it was CGI and I will admit I'm wrong. However, I want Guerilla saying the actual words "CGI", not "rendered", not "not gameplay", not "not on PS3 hardware".

it was actually in a video interview a couple of months after E3 '05. It was stated as CGI because Guerilla Games didn't even do it. Sony asked them to do the trailer and they declined because they were too busy with the game. So Sony hired an outside company to do the trailer. Therefore, there was no way that it was "real-time" or "gameplay" because Guerilla didn't do it.

As for a link to the video, you can find that yourself. I am not going to spend the next 2 weeks trying to find a video from 2 years ago. I think it was an interview by GameTrailers or IGN, but I can't really remember who did it.

ZIMdoom.... you just need to give up. You can't honestly say that companies don't lie to their consumers to move their products. Sony cares about making money. They'll do what they need to to get it.MCGSMB

I find you generalization and over-simplification of this issue to be insulting. I never claimed that "companies don't lie". I DID claim that Sony is accused of being lairs yet nobody can ever give evidence. I FURTHER claim that spin, pr and hype are not "lies".

For you to somehow warp that and then accuse me of saying no company anywhere has ever told a lie is completely dishonest and irrational.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

well there it is, if Jack was asked the question and said, "Ted wanted you all to know that it was gameplay.", then he was talking about Ted Price, CEO and founder of Insomniac, developer of Resistance. Ted Price has no affiliation with Killzone.

eclipsed4utoo

If thats what he said then there is no confusion whatsoever, and no lie. Just misunderstanding on the press/general publics part.

Someone mentioned them not launching when they said they would - again not a lie, that is a broken promise - a lie is saying something you know isn't true.

Yeah, but Sony isn't doing much to clear the air. Maybe I missed it but I tried searching for it and so far there is no info from Sony on exactly what the KZ2 trailer was and how they did it. If there is someone please link it for me.

Sony is purposely leaving the idea that KZ2 is in-engine/realtime out there and by saying things like "Ted Wanted you all to know that it was gameplay" when everyone was wondering about KZ2's gameplay makes no sense. And is purposely deceitful. Who the heck wanted to know if R:FOM was real gameplay. It didn't look that amazing to make people so OMG...that can't be real. R:FOM looks nice but is definitely not amazing as is the KZ2 trailer.

Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton's: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (pointing his finger at a random women in the audience or thinking of Madeline Albright) but everyone took him to mean Monica Lewinski. Sure by thelegal sense of the word it may not perfury, but it is a lie to everyone else.

dude, it was almost 2 years ago. EVERYBODY knows it was CGI. Sony doesn't have to release anything. Even one of the developers for Guerilla Games said it was CGI.

Provide a link from Guerilla saying it was CGI and I will admit I'm wrong. However, I want Guerilla saying the actual words "CGI", not "rendered", not "not gameplay", not "not on PS3 hardware".

it was actually in a video interview a couple of months after E3 '05. It was stated as CGI because Guerilla Games didn't even do it. Sony asked them to do the trailer and they declined because they were too busy with the game. So Sony hired an outside company to do the trailer. Therefore, there was no way that it was "real-time" or "gameplay" because Guerilla didn't do it.

As for a link to the video, you can find that yourself. I am not going to spend the next 2 weeks trying to find a video from 2 years ago. I think it was an interview by GameTrailers or IGN, but I can't really remember who did it.

So you don't know who did it, where it was, or who said what...but you are confident they said it was CGI. Yet if Guerilla didn't work on it, how would they know whether it was CGI or a real-time rendering? But I'll bite, I will find the video in question and PM you when I find it. I won't be able to search until this evening though.

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

it was actually in a video interview a couple of months after E3 '05. It was stated as CGI because Guerilla Games didn't even do it. Sony asked them to do the trailer and they declined because they were too busy with the game. So Sony hired an outside company to do the trailer. Therefore, there was no way that it was "real-time" or "gameplay" because Guerilla didn't do it.

As for a link to the video, you can find that yourself. I am not going to spend the next 2 weeks trying to find a video from 2 years ago. I think it was an interview by GameTrailers or IGN, but I can't really remember who did it.

ZIMdoom

So you don't know who did it, where it was, or who said what...but you are confident they said it was CGI. Yet if Guerilla didn't work on it, how would they know whether it was CGI or a real-time rendering? But I'll bite, I will find the video in question and PM you when I find it. I won't be able to search until this evening though.

I don't have to be "confident". I know what I heard. I will try to do some searching also. I guess YouTube will probably be the best place to start. Searching for this on Google would be horrible.

Even then, it was still beyond Sony's ability. I am not refuting the fact that Sony was mincing their words, and the indesire to settle with immersion was the core reason as to why rumble was not included - but again, this is not lying. You could stretch and skew the words as many ways as you want, but unless they said something like "We spoke to immersion, and we found out that even if we settled we would not be able to include rumble, so we decided not to settle" for example, it would not be a lie. PR talk is easily confused for a lie because it is not straight forward.

Again, huge assumptions here, you are assuming what those 90million dollars mean to Sony, and are disregarding what the costs of then -adding- rumble compounded with the 90million would do. I am not saying that my assumption is right, but it is no better than yours on this topic.

You provided links to the immersion head saying something like "If Sony was willing to work with us, we could work around the sixaxis issue" which again, does not prove anyone a liar. Then you pointed to an opinion in another article. THEN you threw in your own spin on the situation. I don't understand how my opinion is not on an equal level?


I hope it doesn't make me look to bad, I wont pretend to know how it looks to other people, but I think its safe to say - not as bad as you are looking. You get so angry and passionate about the whole thing, and thats kinda what frustrates me. And you absolutely refuse to recognize any good points brought against you - and you also don't seem to understand what a lie is.

Kinitari

I dont know what a lie is? Sony whas asked why rumble was not included in their controllers. The PR spin was "We want to make it affordable or its last gen". Both of those are outright lies. Had they not been sued you can bet your *** that the PS3 controller would have had rumble. Im sure cost would not have been a concern then.

If they came out and said "We cant include rumble now due to legal matters at this time.", that would have been better than the lying **** they are spinning.

And on lie...

"A lie is an untruthful statement made to someone else with the intention to deceive. To lie is to say something one believes to be false with the intention that it be taken for the truth by someone else."

Misleading is when a person tells astatement that isn't an outright lie, but still has the purpose of making someone believe in an untruth.

Look at your first 4 sentences then read the above I have bolded for you. :shock:

[QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"]

Nice try. Unfourtunately for you, I can pull up links. In a recent interview, Sony Computer Entertainment America president Kaz Hirai said that the "strategic" move to drop rumble from the PlayStation 3 controller was for the consumer's benefit.

"a tilt-control-enabled controller coupled with rumble technology would be too pricey for many customers."

An interview with Peter Dille, VP Of MARKETING (AKA the Sony Spin)

What's the reason that Sony didn't work with Immersion to make that functionality happen in the SIXAXIS?

The Spin: "We feel like we've got a better solution in the access motion control works. It's an evolution very familiar formfactor and design, but the ability to put that SIXAXIS control into the players' hands puts them that much closer to the game. And I know that I've read a lot -- and you probably have -- and it seems like the folks at Immersion are looking to sort of negotiate through the press and try to make their case to us. But, I think from Sony's point of view, we have a design path that would enhance the experience for the gamers, and we're looking to move forward and not continue down the path that we did down before. But to better the experience, we've talked about how there's a potential for that rumble to interfere with the SIXAXIS controller."

Thats an outright lie, period. Translation: We had a lawsuit on our hands. We rushed some watered down tilt *** in hopes the masses would fall for it. :shock:

ZIMdoom

How is it a lie. They said that rumble would interfere with the six axis controller and to get it to work would be too expensive. How is that a lie? Where's your proof? So what if Sony was being sued.

What?!! Are you serious? Please tell me.....your not serious? :shock:

Immersion President Victor Viegas:The company announced in a press release that the PS3 controller would lack vibration due to the possibility of it interfering with the controller's new tilt sensors, which Viegas feels is unlikely.

"If what they're saying is in fact the reason why the controller will not have vibration, I've offered them numerous solutions to the problem," Viegas said in an interview Tuesday. "I don't believe it's a very difficult problem to solve, and Immersion has experts that would be happy to solve that problem for them."

The solutions offered by Immersion, however, would hinge upon Sony's acceptance of the current litigation, and no word has been given as to Sony's plans on the matter. Viegas says that Immersion "would have no qualms helping Sony with their problem, if indeed it is a problem," but the company would have to cease its appeal against the current injunction.

Translation: Sony is appealing the lawsuit (which they eventually paid) so PS3 controllers will not have rumble.

And as far as being to expensive and not compatible with the motion sensing. Nice try...

Affordable? Please. Joystiq points out that a G-Pad Pro for the PS2, which has motion sensing and vibration, costs $30, a whole Lincoln higher than the Dual Shock. C'mon Kaz, can't you at least be straight with us? Now of course, this is from the same folks who said that just a few months ago said that the $500 PS3 was "too cheap"

Dude, stop while your behind. Its a lie, bottom line. :shock:

While I am plenty confident that I am AHEAD on this arguement...you are the first person to post something that could be considered a lie and back it up with logic and facts.

Fair is fair and I will admit to this.

However, I would point out that Sony did say all along that rumble could be done for a price. The article you point out admits the G-pad pro is more money than the PS2 controller...however, the PS3 controller is more money than BOTH. Personally, I think the PS3 controllers are too expensive. If adding rumble would have jacked the price up even more, then Sony does have some point to their claim.

But you are correct that they lied about their reasons for removing it when it was lawsuit related.

Thank You sir. Touche. My only arguement was that Sony lied when it came to the "Rumble Topic". The CGI, Killzone stuff is above my IQ.... :shock:

EDIT: I just re read you post on rumble being done for a price. Its POSSIBLE that Sony could have been alluding to the point of the lawsuit as far as the price is concerned. So Ill give you that. But they still lied. ;)

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

it was actually in a video interview a couple of months after E3 '05. It was stated as CGI because Guerilla Games didn't even do it. Sony asked them to do the trailer and they declined because they were too busy with the game. So Sony hired an outside company to do the trailer. Therefore, there was no way that it was "real-time" or "gameplay" because Guerilla didn't do it.

As for a link to the video, you can find that yourself. I am not going to spend the next 2 weeks trying to find a video from 2 years ago. I think it was an interview by GameTrailers or IGN, but I can't really remember who did it.

ZIMdoom

So you don't know who did it, where it was, or who said what...but you are confident they said it was CGI. Yet if Guerilla didn't work on it, how would they know whether it was CGI or a real-time rendering? But I'll bite, I will find the video in question and PM you when I find it. I won't be able to search until this evening though.

Ok, I found it. I was a little off. I must have missed the caption at the bottom where they show where the guy works at. I thought the guy worked at Guerilla Games, but he didn't. Just check the link out and you will see why we KNOW it was CGI.

and it also has the Jack Trenton interview. I take back what I said earlier. He was talking about Killzone, but he did say Ted (WTF?). Maybe he didn't know the difference between Killzone and Resistance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc

Ok, I found it.

eclipsed4utoo

Dude, trim...down...your quotes, before you get smacked with the TOS hammer. :shock:

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

well there it is, if Jack was asked the question and said, "Ted wanted you all to know that it was gameplay.", then he was talking about Ted Price, CEO and founder of Insomniac, developer of Resistance. Ted Price has no affiliation with Killzone.

ZIMdoom

If thats what he said then there is no confusion whatsoever, and no lie. Just misunderstanding on the press/general publics part.

Someone mentioned them not launching when they said they would - again not a lie, that is a broken promise - a lie is saying something you know isn't true.

Yeah, but Sony isn't doing much to clear the air. Maybe I missed it but I tried searching for it and so far there is no info from Sony on exactly what the KZ2 trailer was and how they did it. If there is someone please link it for me.

Sony is purposely leaving the idea that KZ2 is in-engine/realtime out there and by saying things like "Ted Wanted you all to know that it was gameplay" when everyone was wondering about KZ2's gameplay makes no sense. And is purposely deceitful. Who the heck wanted to know if R:FOM was real gameplay. It didn't look that amazing to make people so OMG...that can't be real. R:FOM looks nice but is definitely not amazing as is the KZ2 trailer.

Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton's: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (pointing his finger at a random women in the audience or thinking of Madeline Albright) but everyone took him to mean Monica Lewinski. Sure by thelegal sense of the word it may not perfury, but it is a lie to everyone else.

dude, it was almost 2 years ago. EVERYBODY knows it was CGI. Sony doesn't have to release anything. Even one of the developers for Guerilla Games said it was CGI.

Provide a link from Guerilla saying it was CGI and I will admit I'm wrong. However, I want Guerilla saying the actual words "CGI", not "rendered", not "not gameplay", not "not on PS3 hardware".

well, i remember that they didn't use those words, instead they used these (or something in the likes of these): the trailer was a pre-rendered, a speed up recorded version of what was running at 5 fps on the alpha dev kit they had at the time.

[QUOTE="Kestastrophe"]

** I think you meant to say: Now your ignorance and illiteracy ARE trying my patience.

I don't know why I am receiving this hostility as I have not been hostile towards you.

You discredited the article by saying that 1up ignored MS' press releases. However, you failed to mention that the article does not address PR spun press releases of any kind. It addresses the ridiculous claims of all the console manufacturers, not just Sony. Thus, the mere fact that you bring up the timing of MS' press releases (some may argue that this is trivial) suggests a different double standard. For example, should timed press releases carry as much weight as misleading statements?

ZIMdoom

Excuse me for not spell checking. It is no defense for your lack of reading my past comments and understanding what I am clearly saying.

1) You said Sony is far worse and exadgerates far more than anyone.

2) I said all companies do it and if you attack one you should attack them all. I back this up with similar actions from MS.

3) You change the subject and accuse me of not criticising Sony for PR tactics when I have stated NUMEROUS times that Sony does this and does it stupidly and terribly.

4) I misspoke when I saidthat 1up "ignored"things. Myintent was to point out(as I state in full context)that the articlewas written before other ample evidence has come forward.

It was not a spelling error, but rather a grammatical one.

1.) I do believe that Sony has exaggerated more than the other companies in the past. Lately, they have been more low key.

2.) I agree. However, I do think that are different severities. I don't think that a timed press release is comparable to intentional ambiguity, but lies are lies regardless of their source.

3.) I did not change the subject, but I did over-exaggerate and I apoolgize. However, the fact that you think the timing of MS' press releases is comparable to ambiguous misleadings suggests a perception bias. It is true though that reasonable people can agree to disagree though.........

4.) I agree with all of the examples that you mentioned, with the exception of the timed press releases. Obviously, MS has dropped the ball on quality assurance and they need to be held accountable ( I believe that the 360's current underwheling sales are indicative of where the console stands in the court of public opinion).

[QUOTE="mikasa"]Yes his job is done. After years of obfuscating and repeating untruths he's finally managed to confuse one person. There's not much confusion to it. Use Occam's razor to lead your judgement in most matters and you'll usually be right.ZIMdoom

Years? WTF?

Years. E3 05 was 2 years ago. See 2 is more than 1 so you have to add an S to the word year to make it plural.

Finally you say hardware wasn't ready? The fact is it WAS ready, it just wasn't ready enough...

ZIMdoom

LOL! Translation: not ready enough == not Ready!

Wow your attempts at damage control know no bounds.

[QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

well there it is, if Jack was asked the question and said, "Ted wanted you all to know that it was gameplay.", then he was talking about Ted Price, CEO and founder of Insomniac, developer of Resistance. Ted Price has no affiliation with Killzone.

eclipsed4utoo

If thats what he said then there is no confusion whatsoever, and no lie. Just misunderstanding on the press/general publics part.

Someone mentioned them not launching when they said they would - again not a lie, that is a broken promise - a lie is saying something you know isn't true.

Yeah, but Sony isn't doing much to clear the air. Maybe I missed it but I tried searching for it and so far there is no info from Sony on exactly what the KZ2 trailer was and how they did it. If there is someone please link it for me.

Sony is purposely leaving the idea that KZ2 is in-engine/realtime out there and by saying things like "Ted Wanted you all to know that it was gameplay" when everyone was wondering about KZ2's gameplay makes no sense. And is purposely deceitful. Who the heck wanted to know if R:FOM was real gameplay. It didn't look that amazing to make people so OMG...that can't be real. R:FOM looks nice but is definitely not amazing as is the KZ2 trailer.

Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton's: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (pointing his finger at a random women in the audience or thinking of Madeline Albright) but everyone took him to mean Monica Lewinski. Sure by thelegal sense of the word it may not perfury, but it is a lie to everyone else.

dude, it was almost 2 years ago. EVERYBODY knows it was CGI. Sony doesn't have to release anything. Even one of the developers for Guerilla Games said it was CGI.

Eveyrone knows/ Try reading this thread and you'll see there are some that don't. So if you could give me a link where Sony cleared the air...I'd appreciate it.

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

well there it is, if Jack was asked the question and said, "Ted wanted you all to know that it was gameplay.", then he was talking about Ted Price, CEO and founder of Insomniac, developer of Resistance. Ted Price has no affiliation with Killzone.

ZIMdoom

If thats what he said then there is no confusion whatsoever, and no lie. Just misunderstanding on the press/general publics part.

Someone mentioned them not launching when they said they would - again not a lie, that is a broken promise - a lie is saying something you know isn't true.

Yeah, but Sony isn't doing much to clear the air. Maybe I missed it but I tried searching for it and so far there is no info from Sony on exactly what the KZ2 trailer was and how they did it. If there is someone please link it for me.

Sony is purposely leaving the idea that KZ2 is in-engine/realtime out there and by saying things like "Ted Wanted you all to know that it was gameplay" when everyone was wondering about KZ2's gameplay makes no sense. And is purposely deceitful. Who the heck wanted to know if R:FOM was real gameplay. It didn't look that amazing to make people so OMG...that can't be real. R:FOM looks nice but is definitely not amazing as is the KZ2 trailer.

Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton's: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (pointing his finger at a random women in the audience or thinking of Madeline Albright) but everyone took him to mean Monica Lewinski. Sure by thelegal sense of the word it may not perfury, but it is a lie to everyone else.

dude, it was almost 2 years ago. EVERYBODY knows it was CGI. Sony doesn't have to release anything. Even one of the developers for Guerilla Games said it was CGI.

Provide a link from Guerilla saying it was CGI and I will admit I'm wrong. However, I want Guerilla saying the actual words "CGI", not "rendered", not "not gameplay", not "not on PS3 hardware".

I can play that game too. Show me a link form Guerilla or Sony saying it was realtime ingame NOT cgi footage.

Worth posting a 2nd time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc

Proof the kz2 was a lie and cgi. Sony still hasn't cleared the air on this. I think they are hoping the e3 footage this year will help make everyone forget that...or they'll just say of course that was cgi everyone knew it was. I'd love for it to be the latter as that would give some huge ownage on SW for all the fools that believe sony.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"]

well there it is, if Jack was asked the question and said, "Ted wanted you all to know that it was gameplay.", then he was talking about Ted Price, CEO and founder of Insomniac, developer of Resistance. Ted Price has no affiliation with Killzone.

mikasa

If thats what he said then there is no confusion whatsoever, and no lie. Just misunderstanding on the press/general publics part.

Someone mentioned them not launching when they said they would - again not a lie, that is a broken promise - a lie is saying something you know isn't true.

Yeah, but Sony isn't doing much to clear the air. Maybe I missed it but I tried searching for it and so far there is no info from Sony on exactly what the KZ2 trailer was and how they did it. If there is someone please link it for me.

Sony is purposely leaving the idea that KZ2 is in-engine/realtime out there and by saying things like "Ted Wanted you all to know that it was gameplay" when everyone was wondering about KZ2's gameplay makes no sense. And is purposely deceitful. Who the heck wanted to know if R:FOM was real gameplay. It didn't look that amazing to make people so OMG...that can't be real. R:FOM looks nice but is definitely not amazing as is the KZ2 trailer.

Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton's: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (pointing his finger at a random women in the audience or thinking of Madeline Albright) but everyone took him to mean Monica Lewinski. Sure by thelegal sense of the word it may not perfury, but it is a lie to everyone else.

dude, it was almost 2 years ago. EVERYBODY knows it was CGI. Sony doesn't have to release anything. Even one of the developers for Guerilla Games said it was CGI.

Provide a link from Guerilla saying it was CGI and I will admit I'm wrong. However, I want Guerilla saying the actual words "CGI", not "rendered", not "not gameplay", not "not on PS3 hardware".

I can play that game too. Show me a link form Guerilla or Sony saying it was realtime ingame NOT cgi footage.

Not the same thing. You are claiming Sony to be liars, so you are the one who has to prove that the Killzone trailer was CGI and that Sony meant Killzone and not Resistance in the conversation. If you cant verify aintentional falseclaim then there is no lie.

Not the same thing. You are claiming Sony to be liars, so you are the one who has to prove that the Killzone trailer was CGI and that Sony meant Killzone and not Resistance in the conversation. If you cant verify aintentional falseclaim then there is no lie. Javy03

Uh we did prove they lied about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc
Now it's your turn to give a link where Sony says it is NOT cgi because I have one with pretty convincing evidence that it is.

Looks like Sony is starting the lies early this year. Now sony claims the PS3 is designed to last decades!http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25751032

[QUOTE="Javy03"]Not the same thing. You are claiming Sony to be liars, so you are the one who has to prove that the Killzone trailer was CGI and that Sony meant Killzone and not Resistance in the conversation. If you cant verify aintentional falseclaim then there is no lie. mikasa

Uh we did prove they lied about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc
Now it's your turn to give a link where Sony says it is NOT cgi because I have one with pretty convincing evidence that it is.

Ownage approved. :) Take it easy on Javy03 though. He's just a cow.

It shocks me people still defend Sony for E3 05.

I'd like to put my two cents in.

First off, Sony does lie/break promisesmore then the others. However, it's not as much as people make it out to be. Although they are similar, a lie and a broken promise are not the same.

A lie is when you tell something you know isn't true. Like if you lose a baseball game, but tell your parents that you won. But you also need to make sure that they don't know that you're lying, so they can't challenge you. Using the previous analogy, the parents wouldn't have seen the game.

However, a broken promise is something that you attempt to deliver on, but you can't. Like if you promise to fix something, but you don't.

Here comes my main argument:

The truth is, what Sony does a lot is something in the middle. Which is, they promise something that they don't believe that they can do, but they have to. Or they could say something that isn't true now, but it might be in the future. Now, on gaming sites like this one, this can create an interesting dilemma. You could say that they outright lied, or that they broke their promise.

Don't believe me? Here are some examples:

Killzone 3 trailer, Spring 2007 launch, rumble in the PS3 controller, worldwide launch, sellouts for months (come on people, you know this isn't true), 120 fps, 2 HDMI ports, dual 1080p, 6 USB ports.

See what I'm getting at?

My point in all this is that, since you can see it either way, and be equally right, there's no right answer. Which, unfortunately, means there will be many a fanboy debate about it.

Any thoughts?

[QUOTE="MCGSMB"]ZIMdoom.... you just need to give up. You can't honestly say that companies don't lie to their consumers to move their products. Sony cares about making money. They'll do what they need to to get it.ZIMdoom

I find you generalization and over-simplification of this issue to be insulting. I never claimed that "companies don't lie". I DID claim that Sony is accused of being lairs yet nobody can ever give evidence. I FURTHER claim that spin, pr and hype are not "lies".

For you to somehow warp that and then accuse me of saying no company anywhere has ever told a lie is completely dishonest and irrational.

Like I said, Sony does do a lot of stuff that's basicially half lying. But if you want any evidence, check out the video posted that says the Killzone 3 trailer is CGI.

I know I may be -flamed- for this, but I was not as avidly interested in the politics of gaming during the Killzone 2 fiasco as I am now... so I wiki'd it, this is what it says:

"SCEA's Vice President, Jack Tretton, was quoted as saying that the Killzone footage, that is believed to be pre-rendered,"is definitely real" and "is real gameplay", but it was later claimed that Tretton was referring to Resistance: Fall of Man , not Killzone. Sony's Phil Harrison later stated the video was done "to spec" during an interview with the G4 Network."

Is that what everyone is so upset about?
Kinitari

man I have to quote this beceause this will officially destroy the "sony said kz2-trailer was real gameplay lolz!11" sentence when it was just a mistake.

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]I know I may be -flamed- for this, but I was not as avidly interested in the politics of gaming during the Killzone 2 fiasco as I am now... so I wiki'd it, this is what it says:

"SCEA's Vice President, Jack Tretton, was quoted as saying that the Killzone footage, that is believed to be pre-rendered,"is definitely real" and "is real gameplay", but it was later claimed that Tretton was referring to Resistance: Fall of Man , not Killzone. Sony's Phil Harrison later stated the video was done "to spec" during an interview with the G4 Network."

Is that what everyone is so upset about?
Cyberfairy

man I have to quote this beceause this will officially destroy the "sony said kz2-trailer was real gameplay lolz!11" sentence when it was just a mistake.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc

OWNED.

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]I know I may be -flamed- for this, but I was not as avidly interested in the politics of gaming during the Killzone 2 fiasco as I am now... so I wiki'd it, this is what it says:

"SCEA's Vice President, Jack Tretton, was quoted as saying that the Killzone footage, that is believed to be pre-rendered,"is definitely real" and "is real gameplay", but it was later claimed that Tretton was referring to Resistance: Fall of Man , not Killzone. Sony's Phil Harrison later stated the video was done "to spec" during an interview with the G4 Network."

Is that what everyone is so upset about?
Cyberfairy

man I have to quote this beceause this will officially destroy the "sony said kz2-trailer was real gameplay lolz!11" sentence when it was just a mistake.

until you watch the video, you won't understand. It was clear KZ2 was the topic and he was addressing KZ2. If he was mistaken they should have cleared it up by saying what KZ2 was as that was the original question. Sony has yet to answer that question directly (unless you count Jack saying it was real gameplay).

If some one benefits from a broken promise thats business and deceiving. Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises but they knew if they deceived the people to believe that they would, Sony would benefit from people waiting for their product instead of buying the competitions product.

Lie: an untrue statement made with intent to deceive

The best businessmen are ample deceivers, all companies deceive and stretch the facts. Business is trade, you make an equal trade thats bad business.

Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises

demoralizer

[QUOTE="demoralizer"]

Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises

Teufelhuhn

I thought we already went through this, there is no way Sony could 100% grantee any promise. Are you saying Sony was oblivious to this fact?

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]

Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises

demoralizer

I thought we already went through this, there is no way Sony could 100% grantee any promise. Are you saying Sony was oblivious to this fact?

People take all this PR stuff way too seriously around here.

[QUOTE="demoralizer"]

Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises

Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="Javy03"]Not the same thing. You are claiming Sony to be liars, so you are the one who has to prove that the Killzone trailer was CGI and that Sony meant Killzone and not Resistance in the conversation. If you cant verify aintentional falseclaim then there is no lie. mikasa

Uh we did prove they lied about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc
Now it's your turn to give a link where Sony says it is NOT cgi because I have one with pretty convincing evidence that it is.

The person that claimed the Killzone was a CGI was in no way affiliated with Sony, Guerilla, or the Killzone Trailer. Its a random person from a CG company called Blur. They "claim" they were offered the trailer and didnt do it because they were "busy" but the truth is they have no clue how or who made the trailer. They are guessing.

Here say from a group who are not Sony or Guerilla or made the trailer cant claim the the trailer is CG or not CG since they have no clue. They have no evidence and no first hand info.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]

Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises

mikasa

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="MCGSMB"]ZIMdoom.... you just need to give up. You can't honestly say that companies don't lie to their consumers to move their products. Sony cares about making money. They'll do what they need to to get it.jim1029

I find you generalization and over-simplification of this issue to be insulting. I never claimed that "companies don't lie". I DID claim that Sony is accused of being lairs yet nobody can ever give evidence. I FURTHER claim that spin, pr and hype are not "lies".

For you to somehow warp that and then accuse me of saying no company anywhere has ever told a lie is completely dishonest and irrational.

Like I said, Sony does do a lot of stuff that's basicially half lying. But if you want any evidence, check out the video posted that says the Killzone 3 trailer is CGI.

Its killzone 2 and the person who says its CG is an employee of a company called Blur, they are not Guerilla, or Sony and they did not make the trailers they cant confirm if its CG or not.

[QUOTE="mikasa"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]

Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises

Teufelhuhn

You "arrest" your case? lol

[QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="Javy03"]Not the same thing. You are claiming Sony to be liars, so you are the one who has to prove that the Killzone trailer was CGI and that Sony meant Killzone and not Resistance in the conversation. If you cant verify aintentional falseclaim then there is no lie. LosDaddie

Uh we did prove they lied about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc
Now it's your turn to give a link where Sony says it is NOT cgi because I have one with pretty convincing evidence that it is.

Ownage approved. :) Take it easy on Javy03 though. He's just a cow.

It shocks me people still defend Sony for E3 05.

Did you even watch the video. Its a random company called Blur who claims that the Trailer is CG. They didnt make the trailer, they arent Sony or Guerilla. How can they comment on a trailer that isnt made by them about a product that isnt theres.

Its called guessing and assuming. Not proof or fact, just assumption.

i'm sure they've learned their lesson

at least i hope they have

You "arrest" your case? lol

jim1029

:lol:

Must be because I'm watching Law & Order.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mikasa"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]

Sony knew that they couldn't grantee their promises

jim1029

You "arrest" your case? lol

I think that means he admits ownage because he needs to take his case to jail.