How The Hell Did We Survive A Time Without Checkpoints?

I don't like checkpoints because I would rather be able to save the game whenever I want.

Like many, I hate checkpoints. I like being able to open the menu, save, and go when i want. Quick save has saved my butt on PC so many times. Also having multiple saves is important to me.

We were tough gamers, I remember Battletoads, Ninja Gaiden and the like.

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Playing a game shouldn't be work. Hence the "playing" part. Patience and determination are great for achieving a worthy goal, videogames are just leisure time though. They should be fun not annoying.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]Patience and determination. Something gamers these days don't even know what they mean.locopatho

[QUOTE="black_chamber99"]

yes, games are easier nowadays and hold your hand more, but i kinda like it that way..much less frustration and controller throwing-induced rampages. how the hell we ever play without checkpoints? im playing through some old games and theyre hard as hell! what? i have to restart the entire level when i die? what the hell man?!

this cant be life

AncientDozer

One of the reasons there weren't check points like what we know today is because of technical limitations, not because people thought it was challenging and decided not to include them.

It's fine to want challenges, but don't have those challenges forced on anyone just to satisfy your ego.

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="gamer-adam1"] Take Crysis 2 for example. Heavily consolized, uses checkpoints. Crysis 1 and most other PC games, have a save anywhere feature, quick save/load. It can add a lot to a game. gamer-adam1

so Left for Dead is heavily consolized? I believe zelda games you could save anywhere

No, it's in essence a bunch of challenge maps based on coop. It should be obvious why it makes sense to use checkpoints in this specific game while that sense does not apply in most others.

The red part saves me the trouble of contributing with my own words in regards to the topic.

But don't the games have both? The check points and the quick save?

mrmusicman247

Crysis 2 has checkpoints. Crysis 1 has manual save, autosave, quicksave and no checkpoints.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Playing a game shouldn't be work. Hence the "playing" part. Patience and determination are great for achieving a worthy goal, videogames are just leisure time though. They should be fun not annoying.locopatho

tell that to MLG, RTS players, competitive shooters, and MMO, RPGS. you can be a profession gamer.

As a PC gamer, I hate check points, but not for the reasons you may think.

Check points are a staple of console gaming, but I hate them because they are limiting. They tend to be irregular, sometimes they happen before tough fights, sometimes they don't. There's no way to know if I'm going to run into the next one 1 minute from now or 40 minutes from now.

Give me a full on save game system or give me death.

*I* will tell the game when I'm done playing it, not the other way around.

Now, auto saves when the game knows there's going to be a tough section ahead, or a tough section has been completed... sure I'm all for those.

But I hope check points die.

Kinthalis

Even as a console gamer, I agree with these points. I don't understand how a save anywhere feature is still not standard.

[QUOTE="Kinthalis"]

As a PC gamer, I hate check points, but not for the reasons you may think.

Check points are a staple of console gaming, but I hate them because they are limiting. They tend to be irregular, sometimes they happen before tough fights, sometimes they don't. There's no way to know if I'm going to run into the next one 1 minute from now or 40 minutes from now.

Give me a full on save game system or give me death.

*I* will tell the game when I'm done playing it, not the other way around.

Now, auto saves when the game knows there's going to be a tough section ahead, or a tough section has been completed... sure I'm all for those.

But I hope check points die.

EliteM0nk3y

Even as a console gamer, I agree with these points. I don't understand how a save anywhere feature is still not standard.

[QUOTE="EliteM0nk3y"]

[QUOTE="Kinthalis"]

As a PC gamer, I hate check points, but not for the reasons you may think.

Check points are a staple of console gaming, but I hate them because they are limiting. They tend to be irregular, sometimes they happen before tough fights, sometimes they don't. There's no way to know if I'm going to run into the next one 1 minute from now or 40 minutes from now.

Give me a full on save game system or give me death.

*I* will tell the game when I'm done playing it, not the other way around.

Now, auto saves when the game knows there's going to be a tough section ahead, or a tough section has been completed... sure I'm all for those.

But I hope check points die.

ianuilliam

Even as a console gamer, I agree with these points. I don't understand how a save anywhere feature is still not standard.

Maybe for them it is.

It comes down to how you would use it. I think Bioware does a good job of implementing save any where by not allowing you to save while in combat (at least in Mass Effect and Dragon Age).

Checkpoints are lame, You should be able to save the game anywhere you want. As for the time without checkpoints.. Die/Repeat/Die/Repeat until you beat it and that's if you haven't broken your controller or something in your vacinity during that time period.

Checkpoints are lame, You should be able to save the game anywhere you want. As for the time without checkpoints.. Die/Repeat/Die/Repeat until you beat it and that's if you haven't broken your controller or something in your vacinity during that time period.

JJGT500

practice, save system, and cheats.

practice, save system, and cheats.

Renegade_Fury

I miss cheats...it added hours of fun to goldeneye 64

You get good at the game. That's how we beat it. mrmusicman247

Ocarina of Time was ok, due to the fact that we had shortcuts to get back to where we died at...

oh wow. i remember as a kid palying Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles.

3 had a save system, but all the others don't.

i memorized the background music for the first 3-4 levels of each game. i know all the passageways (top, middle, and bottom parts of the levels), know where those giant rings are located, know all secrets, know the fastest way to travel from point A to B, know enemy patterns, etc.

we had to repeat over and over and that's how we got good at it. on the first playthrough it's always a cautious play style. and since there is no save system, we had to finish the game in one sitting, and collect all lives and rings as many as we could. if me and my family had to go out or something, i had to turn off the system, and so back to square one.

and when i get to the 7th or 8th levels, i get chills down my spine. it';s just that you don't get to play those levels often and so i was scared id screw up and excited at the same time.

for today's games though, i just feel excited. the 'scared i might lose all my lives' part is just not there anymore.

imagine, back then, they only gave us three lives in Contra. three freakin' lives!

Agreed, checkpoints only lower frustration not difficulty.

Back in the day the levels WERE the checkpoints.

I can't imagine beating Killzone 2 on Elite without checkpoints.

Some nes games had checkpoints, passwords, saving, or infinite continues but were still hard. Some nes games seemed impossible to beat. Some nes games send you so far back.Some nes games were kind of easy there were not many of those.

With a lot of patience.

It never bothered me to replay a whole level again, what really bothered me was having to replay the whole gamebecause of limited continues =/

Yea it was damn hard, that's why PDZ (on dark agent) is the hardest FPS on a current gen console.silversix_

You get good at the game. That's how we beat it. mrmusicman247

Exactly this. Get good, have skills and win.

It comes down to how you would use it. I think Bioware does a good job of implementing save any where by not allowing you to save while in combat (at least in Mass Effect and Dragon Age).

EliteM0nk3y

Checkpoints started out as an understandable console limitation (memory cards couldn't hold much data), but now they are a totally artificial limitation intended to make games feel longer and harder than they actually are. I had imagined that checkpoint-only saving would become a thing of the past this generation (every PS3 has a guaranteed hard drive and even the low-end 360 relying on memory cards have more than enough space for it), but unfortunately I was wrong. It's even worse when lazy developers port console games to the PC and don't bother adding in save-anywhere support (Crysis 2 is a prime example of this--the other two Crysis games had save-anywhere in addition to the occasional checkpoint).

Unless beating a challenge in one run is the whole point of the game (Demon's Souls etc.) checkpoint-only saving is a mark of poor design.

I play mostly RPGs, so...

I hated it. The whole concept of having to play an entire level all over again if you make one silly mistake is horrible. However, many games in the past did have custom save (mainly FPSs), so it wasn't all bad seeing as quicksave still >>>>> autosave.

But yeah, I remember playing Medal of Honor: Frontline. That game had pretty big levels and there wasn't a single save point in the levels themselves. I can understand wanting 'challenge', but this was just ridiculous. The game itself wasn't even that challenging or hard, but the lack of a save system made it way more tedious than it should have been, especially as far as the later levels are concerned, which are basically rocket-dodging fests.

It can mess you up sometimes. In oblivion if you die, you have to load game. which means you could save in a situation where you would always die and therefore be stuck. At one point early in the game i was being chased by about 3 enemies. I was low on health and had no recovery items. If i fought i would die, so i ran to the nearest city with my horse. Then i saved right in front of the city's doors and everytime i tried to get off my horse, the enemies would kill me because it takes too long to get off your horse. By some miracle after about 15 reloads i managed to select the door and escape to safety in the city.Androvinus

This is why you keep multiple save games.

[QUOTE="EliteM0nk3y"]It comes down to how you would use it. I think Bioware does a good job of implementing save any where by not allowing you to save while in combat (at least in Mass Effect and Dragon Age).

Androvinus

We didn't. Alot of gamers quit playing certain games back then simply because they were too punishing. Personally I didn't mind it.. because I had all the time in the world to burn but these days? Nah I wouldn't really bother with such games. No checkpoints was also part of the arcade game type of game design where they would make the game super punishing to get your coins.