How Valve created the most complex character in videogames without diologue.

a very intresting article on how the mute gordon freeman is actually one of the most complex and realistic gaming characters ever created.

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/pc/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=20080118104744203035&releaseId=2005138888000000035144

That doesn't look like Link tbqhwok7

That doesn't look like Link tbqhwok7

Valve created Link? Since when? Haha, you never think about what you say do you? It'd be helpful if you did.

Oh and I agree with the article, it's amazing what Valve has done with Gordon/you :P.

i may be in the minority but i thought the story was dreadful in HL21 it bored me to death a story is supposed to draw you in and guide you through the experience HL2's just didnt interest me and i have tried many many times to like it its jus soulless and lifeless above all its just plain boring.

OH and the vehicle section was absolutely dreadful wtf were they thinking with that one ????

HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.tomarlyn

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againHungryLikeAMug

can you explain to me why its so great because to me its so overrated

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.mattacular

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againHungryLikeAMug

HL2 has a fancy physics engine, good animation and one unique gun. Its no great FPS by any means, In fact its pretty dull. Tell me otherwise. Now the original is still godly IMO.

And as wok7 already mentioned more or less, why should Freeman get the spotlight and not a more deserving character like Link?

[QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.HungryLikeAMug

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

well its all down to personal preference but how about bioware?

sure ME might have had a few technical issues but i dont think any other company has ever created such a film like piece of work in terms of story atomosphere etc.

[QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.HungryLikeAMug

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

You've obviously never played Stalker, it took a T-Rex dump on valves offerings.

[QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.HungryLikeAMug

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

Nintendo. They created all the best games.

Blizzard. Warcraft, Starcraft, and WoW say hello.

BioWare. Stories are always top notch.

Square. Character development is almost always top notch.

Bungie. The Halo games sold a few copies so I guess they did something right.

Rare. Donkey Kong country and Banjo say hi.

[QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"]absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againtomarlyn

HL2 has a fancy physics engine, good animation and one unique gun. Its no great FPS by any means, In fact its pretty dull. Tell me otherwise. Now the original is still godly IMO.

And as wok7 already mentioned more or less, why should Freeman get the spotlight and not a more deserving character like Link?

dull sums it up for me too when i have to force myself to play it thru to justify buying it then its not a great game imo

[QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"][QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.Zero5000X

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

Nintendo. They created all the best games.

Blizzard. Warcraft, Starcraft, and WoW say hello.

BioWare. Stories are always top notch.

Square. Character development is almost always top notch.

Bungie. The Halo games sold a few copies so I guess they did something right.

Rare. Donkey Kong country and Banjo say hi.

back in its prime no company could come close to rare they created so many games that defined the generation

[QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"]absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againtomarlyn

HL2 has a fancy physics engine, good animation and one unique gun. Its no great FPS by any means, In fact its pretty dull. Tell me otherwise. Now the original is still godly IMO.

And as wok7 already mentioned more or less, why should Freeman get the spotlight and not a more deserving character like Link?

The author is reading too much into it. It's game mechanic we see characteristic especially in Western game development. You can trace this back to many games with a first person persepective. From the Dark Half to the D&D Gold Box dungeon crawlers to Ultima and the classic Deus Ex.

In fact, I would say that JC Denton has a stronger connection to the player than Gordon Freeman does simply because you're offered much more choice on how to affect the story. It's that choice that drives stronger character development in Deus Ex, more so than Half Life.

I dunno. Sounds like the author picked up a philosophy book and wanted to show off his newfound knowledge. But, I'm sorry, it's really not a revelation.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

[QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"]absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againmattacular

HL2 has a fancy physics engine, good animation and one unique gun. Its no great FPS by any means, In fact its pretty dull. Tell me otherwise. Now the original is still godly IMO.

And as wok7 already mentioned more or less, why should Freeman get the spotlight and not a more deserving character like Link?

dull sums it up for me too when i have to force myself to play it thru to justify buying it then its not a great game imo

If it wasn't for Counter Strike Source in the box I'd have felt cheated. Saying that I still think the Orange Box is good value, for all the play-time it brings and mods (there's some mods better than than HL2 itself for gameplay).

if there is a more deserving character its Wander (dude in shadow of the colossus) sure, he says one word, but hes still more interesting then both Link and Freeman.beast667

Yes, I actually got emotionally attached to him and Argo :cry:

[QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"][QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.mattacular

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

Nintendo. They created all the best games.

Blizzard. Warcraft, Starcraft, and WoW say hello.

BioWare. Stories are always top notch.

Square. Character development is almost always top notch.

Bungie. The Halo games sold a few copies so I guess they did something right.

Rare. Donkey Kong country and Banjo say hi.

back in its prime no company could come close to rare they created so many games that defined the generation

Nintendo.

[QUOTE="mattacular"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

[QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"]absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againtomarlyn

HL2 has a fancy physics engine, good animation and one unique gun. Its no great FPS by any means, In fact its pretty dull. Tell me otherwise. Now the original is still godly IMO.

And as wok7 already mentioned more or less, why should Freeman get the spotlight and not a more deserving character like Link?

dull sums it up for me too when i have to force myself to play it thru to justify buying it then its not a great game imo

If it wasn't for Counter Strike Source in the box I'd have felt cheated. Saying that I still think the Orange Box is good value, for all the play-time it brings and mods (there's some mods better than than HL2 itself for gameplay).

lol i did feel cheated sure tf2 is great so is portal but the game that is supposed to be the best game ever i found to be so boring thankfully ME came along and i forgot about it lol.

[QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"]absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againtomarlyn

HL2 has a fancy physics engine, good animation and one unique gun. Its no great FPS by any means, In fact its pretty dull. Tell me otherwise. Now the original is still godly IMO.

And as wok7 already mentioned more or less, why should Freeman get the spotlight and not a more deserving character like Link?

Link isn't an interesting character. Speechless hero saving the princess and her kingdom gets old. At least majora's mask was different :D

[QUOTE="mattacular"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"][QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.X_Evo

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

Nintendo. They created all the best games.

Blizzard. Warcraft, Starcraft, and WoW say hello.

BioWare. Stories are always top notch.

Square. Character development is almost always top notch.

Bungie. The Halo games sold a few copies so I guess they did something right.

Rare. Donkey Kong country and Banjo say hi.

back in its prime no company could come close to rare they created so many games that defined the generation

Nintendo.

lol depends on your tastes but between them they created the best games ever imo

[QUOTE="mattacular"]

back in its prime no company could come close to rare they created so many games that defined the generation

X_Evo

Nintendo.

What did Nintendo create during the same period as Rare? Ninty has lost the creativity it had during the NES/SNES days, they've mostly been milking since then.

[QUOTE="HungryLikeAMug"]absolutely not....if anything it deserves more...from here on out it will be a few regular years in the industry untill valves new game, repeated over and over againtomarlyn

HL2 has a fancy physics engine, good animation and one unique gun. Its no great FPS by any means, In fact its pretty dull. Tell me otherwise. Now the original is still godly IMO.

And as wok7 already mentioned more or less, why should Freeman get the spotlight and not a more deserving character like Link?

Ummm It explains the damn link why Gordon Freeman was chosen, link has no sould, hes a little boy playing hero ... that has a fairy ... plays music , grows up ... repeats the same tired principle over and over again ... how is he more deserving? hes as 2 dimentional as it gets.

This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassicLegend_O_Dragon

Thats your opinion and I could call you the fanboy, its just a debate.

[QUOTE="Legend_O_Dragon"]This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassictomarlyn

Thats your opinion and I could call you the fanboy, its just a debate.

its blind bashing because we didnt like it? you really cant have opinions on SW can you

i have one question tho do u think the vehicle sections were good?

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

[QUOTE="Legend_O_Dragon"]This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassicmattacular

Thats your opinion and I could call you the fanboy, its just a debate.

its blind bashing because we didnt like it? you really cant have opinions on SW can you

i have one question tho do u think the vehicle sections were good?

No, but I didn't hate them either. Just too long and unnecessary, bad design choice.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

[QUOTE="Legend_O_Dragon"]This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassicmattacular

Thats your opinion and I could call you the fanboy, its just a debate.

its blind bashing because we didnt like it? you really cant have opinions on SW can you

i have one question tho do u think the vehicle sections were good?

i like how we must be kids for not liking it as well its typical of here you instantly get jumped on for not liking a pc c lassic

This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassicLegend_O_Dragon

Dude... go back and read my post.

I'm not saying that Half Life isn't good. I only find exception with the writer of the article. What he claims is not unique to Half Life and Gordon Freeman. There are plenty of games before Half Life and since that accomplish something similar. There are games that do it better.

[QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="mattacular"]

back in its prime no company could come close to rare they created so many games that defined the generation

tomarlyn

Nintendo.

What did Nintendo create during the same period as Rare? Ninty has lost the creativity it had during the NES/SNES days, they've mostly been milking since then.

If you read the post it says back in Rare's prime perhaps you have a different definition of when Rare's prime was then me, To me Rare was the best back in the Donkey Kong - Banjo days and back then Nintendo made great games. You can hate on Nintendo all you want doesn't change the fact they are still one of the top video game devs around.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

[QUOTE="Legend_O_Dragon"]This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassicmattacular

Thats your opinion and I could call you the fanboy, its just a debate.

its blind bashing because we didnt like it? you really cant have opinions on SW can you

i have one question tho do u think the vehicle sections were good?

This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassicLegend_O_Dragon

People have different tastes in games. I'm not going to deny that going into a game with a negative mindset could hurt the experience though. But something similar that happened to me was with FFVII: I played the game after hearing so much hype about it, and I wanted to play it anyway; but after so much hype, I was expecting to be blown away, but it really didn't impress me. Though playing it through again, I've started to appreciate it a lot more.

As for HL. The first strike against it is it being a FPS. I don't care for FPS and don't play them very often. While I'm sure Valve has done some great things, such as Portal (I'm not going to deny it being good, considering all the praise for it), until they make a game that looks interesting to me and that I'd actually play, I wont experience this "greatness".

Just because a game is a c lassic doesn't mean everyone will like it. I've played it and seen others play it and it really isn't my kind of game.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="mattacular"]

back in its prime no company could come close to rare they created so many games that defined the generation

X_Evo

Nintendo.

What did Nintendo create during the same period as Rare? Ninty has lost the creativity it had during the NES/SNES days, they've mostly been milking since then.

If you read the post it says back in Rare's prime perhaps you have a different definition of when Rare's prime was then me, To me Rare was the best back in the Donkey Kong - Banjo days and back then Nintendo made great games they still do. You can hate on Nintendo all you want they are sitll one of the top video game devs around.

I don't hate Nintendo, but they don't have the same creativity as they used to. Like when they began things like Mario, F-Zero, StarFox, yadda yadda. Now people are just expecting the 9th-10th installments of those.

That doesn't look like Link tbqhwok7

Nintendo character? Complex? LMFAO

[QUOTE="Legend_O_Dragon"]This is why System Wars is stupid.
I came into hoping to read some praise for what Valve has done, all I see is blind bashing. Half these kids havent even played a Half-Life game, and the ones who have came into the game with a negative mind, which can break a game completely for anyone. When I first played MGS my friend forced me and I hated it. Then a recently picked it up and I love it. Its great. Half-Life isd great too, Im just sick of all these fanboys saying its so generic. It IS an instant modern c lassicPhantom_Menace

People have different tastes in games. I'm not going to deny that going into a game with a negative mindset could hurt the experience though. But something similar that happened to me was with FFVII: I played the game after hearing so much hype about it, and I wanted to play it anyway; but after so much hype, I was expecting to be blown away, but it really didn't impress me. Though playing it through again, I've started to appreciate it a lot more.

As for HL. The first strike against it is it being a FPS. I don't care for FPS and don't play them very often. While I'm sure Valve has done some great things, such as Portal (I'm not going to deny it being good, considering all the praise for it), until they make a game that looks interesting to me and that I'd actually play, I wont experience this "greatness".

Just because a game is a c lassic doesn't mean everyone will like it. I've played it and seen others play it and it really isn't my kind of game.

Um you are missing the point. There is a difference between enjoying art and appreciating/acknowledging what it has contributed to the art form.

Example, in music, you may hate the Beatles. Too upbeat for you, you don't like the vocalist's voice, whatever. That doesn't mean you can call the Beatles crap. Well you can, but you're wrong. You should still be able to understand and acknowledge their contribution to music, whether you personally enjoy them or not.

[QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.HungryLikeAMug

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

easy, nintendo .. the reasons should be obvious

anyway, Valve aren't the only ones that think of characters as a representation of the player

link is called this specifically because of this .. he's the link between game and player

this is why he never talks, and neither does Samus

I'd say pac-man. I mean you at least know who freeman is, why he is fighting, whats at stake. Pac-man is a total enigma of complexity. Why is he chasing pellets? Addiction? And ghosts, what do they symbolize? Past failure, or the chains of addiction? And why is he trapped in this endless maze? So many questions.Darthmatt

I'd say pac-man. I mean you at least know who freeman is, why he is fighting, whats at stake. Pac-man is a total enigma of complexity. Why is he chasing pellets? Addiction? And ghosts, what do they symbolize? Past failure, or the chains of addiction? And why is he trapped in this endless maze? So many questions.Darthmatt

LMFAO ... :lol:

I disagree with that article.

Half-Life does a great job of placing you in Gordon's shoes, and keeping him both an entity in the gameworld and a blank slate in terms of character, and the ingame story presentation does allow you to react to what is happening in your own way. But there's still a barrier between you and Gordon and the world of the game.

Gordon never interacts in a way that would be out of character for you, which is good, but he also never interacts at all with the other characters no matter how much they talk to him or what happens. In a world that sucks you in like Half-Life's does, sometimes you want to be able to respond to the characters, and you can't. At those times, Gordon really does feel blank.

[QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]HL2 gets more attention than it deserves.HungryLikeAMug

I agree with you i think its hugely overrated

you are both insane? name a developer with more raw talent than valve and give me a reason please, because ive played them all and valve is in their own league.

I'd say pac-man. I mean you at least know who freeman is, why he is fighting, whats at stake. Pac-man is a total enigma of complexity. Why is he chasing pellets? Addiction? And ghosts, what do they symbolize? Past failure, or the chains of addiction? And why is he trapped in this endless maze? So many questions.Darthmatt