I do not support The Saboteur or Wolfenstein......

The games depict blatant killing of the Nazis as if they were all evil, which, and you can ask any educated historian, is completely false. The nazis were simply the german army they didn't necesarily share the same ideologies of the third reich just like today's troops in Iraq or yesterday's troops in Vietnam didn't agree with the reason they were fighting.

But ohhhh yeahhhh, lets just go kill some Nazis, so fun! They were all evil, the entire nation of germany was apparently "pure" evil, I suppose not one Nazi just wanted to fighting to honor his country?

And before you flame me, just think of the game Stalin vs. Martians, which this site recognized as a full-fledged video game, albeit a bad one, and legitimately reviewed. Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

They went with the current power without trying to overthrow, so therefore they're just as evil for it. Like Henry Kissinger said, "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." Hey, I didn't say it, but one of the most well respected political forces in history said it. Sadly, these are the kind of men that are respected in this world.

Pretty sure Wolfenstein is going to own either way.xXDrPainXx

Umm..what's with americans and "Nazis"? You're afraid to say germans? Most german soldiers weren't nazis. But this doesn't matter, they were the occopying army, thus I see no problem with killing themi in game, that's what was happening in real world anyway.

I am however looking forward to Red Orchestra 2 as it will have lenghty german campaign. And what's great is you will be fighting against red army, so there are no moral dilemas here :)

Saboteur I can understand, but the Nazis in Wolfenstein are a fictional occult branch of the Shutzstaffel (SS), the most fanatical of a group of fanatics. Practically Herr Himmler's personal division. And the Germans (notice I said Germans and not Nazis, as the SS were realy the only group you could truly label as being comprised entirely of Nazis) in Paris didn't exactly have a reputation of being well-intentioned either.

Who cares? It's just a game...

The games depict blatant killing of the Nazis as if they were all evil, which, and you can ask any educated historian, is completely false. The nazis were simply the german army they didn't necesarily share the same ideologies of the third reich just like today's troops in Iraq or yesterday's troops in Vietnam didn't agree with the reason they were fighting.

But ohhhh yeahhhh, lets just go kill some Nazis, so fun! They were all evil, the entire nation of germany was apparently "pure" evil, I suppose not one Nazi just wanted to fighting to honor his country?

And before you flame me, just think of the game Stalin vs. Martians, which this site recognized as a full-fledged video game, albeit a bad one, and legitimately reviewed. Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

sacredtext62

I think that I would have a problem with it as well if the games weren't depicting them as evil Nazi charactures. The problem is I can't think of one game set in WWII that I've played where I didn't have a problem slaughtering German enemies because the developer provided me with enough motivation to do so.

You think in Wolfenstein's case with the horror/demonic setting they are going to be given an element of humanity? In the Saboteur they could approach that angle and even have you work with Germans but I fully expect public beatings/executions to give me reason to fight them.

[QUOTE="sacredtext62"]

The games depict blatant killing of the Nazis as if they were all evil, which, and you can ask any educated historian, is completely false. The nazis were simply the german army they didn't necesarily share the same ideologies of the third reich just like today's troops in Iraq or yesterday's troops in Vietnam didn't agree with the reason they were fighting.

But ohhhh yeahhhh, lets just go kill some Nazis, so fun! They were all evil, the entire nation of germany was apparently "pure" evil, I suppose not one Nazi just wanted to fighting to honor his country?

And before you flame me, just think of the game Stalin vs. Martians, which this site recognized as a full-fledged video game, albeit a bad one, and legitimately reviewed. Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

strudel420

I think that I would have a problem with it as well if the games weren't depicting them as evil Nazi charactures. The problem is I can't think of one game set in WWII that I've played where I didn't have a problem slaughtering German enemies because the developer provided mewith enough motivation to do so.

You think in Wolfenstein's case with the horror/demonic setting they are going to be given an element of humanity? In the Saboteur they could approach that angle and even have you work with Germans but I fully expect public beatings/executions to give me reason to fight them.

well..you do play as germans in plenty of strategygames :)

AdrianWerner

Company of Heroes w/o the expansion packs is the only WWII strategy game I've played. :(

I'm sure many know that. But hey man, it's a game, no need to take it to heart.siLVURcross

Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

sacredtext62

Poor pixalized German army guys, where shall we bury the ashes? :(

All Nazi's are evil SOB's. They were racists, white supremacists, and committed many genocides all across europe. The Nazi Army was taught that they were the superior race and that all others were sub-human. This idea was drilled into their minds and solidified by constant propaganda. During Operation Barbarossa, the nazi's set up divisions just for the annihilation of "sub-human creatures" or russians. Now i'm not saying everyone in germany was bad, many people did in fact oppose the government and hitler's policies, but they weren't nazi's. The nazi's that you shoot in games are the ones that killed innocents, spouted hatred towards other racial groups, and followed one of the world's worst leaders without question. So do I feel bad when I kill nazi's? hell no.Panther501

[QUOTE="sacredtext62"]

Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

Panther501

Meh, stop trying to act like Nazis where good people.

They killed alot of peopel for Hitler and IMO thats just as bad as Hitler himself. Try telling people whos family where killed by Nazis that the Nazis where not bad people.

They went with the current power without trying to overthrow, so therefore they're just as evil for it. Like Henry Kissinger said, "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." Hey, I didn't say it, but one of the most well respected political forces in history said it. Sadly, these are the kind of men that are respected in this world.

BioShockOwnz

[QUOTE="Panther501"]All Nazi's are evil SOB's. They were racists, white supremacists, and committed many genocides all across europe. The Nazi Army was taught that they were the superior race and that all others were sub-human. This idea was drilled into their minds and solidified by constant propaganda. During Operation Barbarossa, the nazi's set up divisions just for the annihilation of "sub-human creatures" or russians. Now i'm not saying everyone in germany was bad, many people did in fact oppose the government and hitler's policies, but they weren't nazi's. The nazi's that you shoot in games are the ones that killed innocents, spouted hatred towards other racial groups, and followed one of the world's worst leaders without question. So do I feel bad when I kill nazi's? hell no.Shafftehr

[QUOTE="Panther501"][QUOTE="sacredtext62"]

Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

AdrianWerner

The games depict blatant killing of the Nazis as if they were all evil, which, and you can ask any educated historian, is completely false. The nazis were simply the german army they didn't necesarily share the same ideologies of the third reich just like today's troops in Iraq or yesterday's troops in Vietnam didn't agree with the reason they were fighting.

But ohhhh yeahhhh, lets just go kill some Nazis, so fun! They were all evil, the entire nation of germany was apparently "pure" evil, I suppose not one Nazi just wanted to fighting to honor his country?

And before you flame me, just think of the game Stalin vs. Martians, which this site recognized as a full-fledged video game, albeit a bad one, and legitimately reviewed. Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

sacredtext62

[QUOTE="sacredtext62"]

Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

Panther501

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

They went with the current power without trying to overthrow, so therefore they're just as evil for it. Like Henry Kissinger said, "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." Hey, I didn't say it, but one of the most well respected political forces in history said it. Sadly, these are the kind of men that are respected in this world.

jg4xchamp

The last sentence was aimed at Kissinger and men like him, not soldiers. Most men who serve aren't born to do such things, but they're trained like animals to obey and follow.

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="Panther501"]All Nazi's are evil SOB's. They were racists, white supremacists, and committed many genocides all across europe. The Nazi Army was taught that they were the superior race and that all others were sub-human. This idea was drilled into their minds and solidified by constant propaganda. During Operation Barbarossa, the nazi's set up divisions just for the annihilation of "sub-human creatures" or russians. Now i'm not saying everyone in germany was bad, many people did in fact oppose the government and hitler's policies, but they weren't nazi's. The nazi's that you shoot in games are the ones that killed innocents, spouted hatred towards other racial groups, and followed one of the world's worst leaders without question. So do I feel bad when I kill nazi's? hell no.SparkyProtocol

The point isn't that what the Allies did was wrong (though, they did a lot of things that were - Germany had higher Civlian deaths than any Allied country other than Russia for a reason, and it ain't because those apple pie and crumpet eating Allies were the clear cut "good guys") - it's that a lot of you are utter hypocrites and a wee bit sick for thinking it's perfectly OK to do to German soldiers (see: not Nazis, as the majority weren't) what you'd find offensive being done to American soldiers... And you get your jollies making games out of doing that, and actually believe you're re-enacting something that was anything more than a tragedy that should be treated with a great degree of deference.

[QUOTE="sacredtext62"]

The games depict blatant killing of the Nazis as if they were all evil, which, and you can ask any educated historian, is completely false. The nazis were simply the german army they didn't necesarily share the same ideologies of the third reich just like today's troops in Iraq or yesterday's troops in Vietnam didn't agree with the reason they were fighting.

But ohhhh yeahhhh, lets just go kill some Nazis, so fun! They were all evil, the entire nation of germany was apparently "pure" evil, I suppose not one Nazi just wanted to fighting to honor his country?

And before you flame me, just think of the game Stalin vs. Martians, which this site recognized as a full-fledged video game, albeit a bad one, and legitimately reviewed. Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

sirkibble2

I like Wolfenstein 3D though. :P By this kind of logic, this means that Resident Evil 5 is racist?double_heist

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

They went with the current power without trying to overthrow, so therefore they're just as evil for it. Like Henry Kissinger said, "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." Hey, I didn't say it, but one of the most well respected political forces in history said it. Sadly, these are the kind of men that are respected in this world.

BioShockOwnz

The last sentence was aimed at Kissinger and men like him, not soldiers. Most men who serve aren't born to do such things, but they're trained like animals to obey and follow.

Hitler was quite an interesting person. And I actually agreed with a lot of his world views. Not everything the man said or did was crazy out there, but we only remember what we're forced to remember. Like the people who are forced to fight for "freedom", Hitler was trained to become an animal; a soulless animal.

Hitler was quite an interesting person. And I actually agreed with a lot of his world views. Not everything the man said or did was crazy out there, but we only remember what we're forced to remember. Like the people who are forced to fight for "freedom", Hitler was trained to become an animal; a soulless animal.

BioShockOwnz

World War 2 was all about survival. No matter which side you were on, if you were forced to fight then you fought for your own survival, most of the soldiers didn't care about the beliefes or ideals of the opposing sides.

At least thats what my grandfather told me :]

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

Hitler was quite an interesting person. And I actually agreed with a lot of his world views. Not everything the man said or did was crazy out there, but we only remember what we're forced to remember. Like the people who are forced to fight for "freedom", Hitler was trained to become an animal; a soulless animal.

Animal-Mother

I'm not a defender of socialism, communism, or fascism. I am strictly for individual freedom and the capitalist system. Sadly, our nation is moving away from capitalism and quickly turning into an oligarchy. Most of us believe it's been there for quite a while, though. But the destruction of the middle class will soon allow them to gain full control of the system and its people.

Look if you guys want to talk about the consequences of having games where you kill large amounts of Germans or any other groups of people, I think that's cool. But this cannot turn into some sort of weird politicial thread or anything like that, because this really isn't the place for that sort of discussion. Just keep it related to video games, plz.

yeah in a way i agree with yo... im also tired of this typical nazi/german thing it really annoys me.

im german myself so i know for a fact that the soldiers didnt know what the nazi regime did. my grandpa was in the hitler youth in the flak at first but was later sent to russia.... when the war was almost over they tried to flee to the allied side because they would rather be a pow of the allies than the russians, but the russians got them cuz they already were way past them.

and my grandmas, grandpas and what not all did not know about what was ahppening with the jews... they knew something wasnt right but they didnt knwo about the concentration camps

Look if you guys want to talk about the consequences of having games where you kill large amounts of Germans or any other groups of people, I think that's cool. But this cannot turn into some sort of weird politicial thread or anything like that, because this really isn't the place for that sort of discussion. Just keep it related to video games, plz.

Teufelhuhn

All of it ties together, actually.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

Hitler was quite an interesting person. And I actually agreed with a lot of his world views. Not everything the man said or did was crazy out there, but we only remember what we're forced to remember. Like the people who are forced to fight for "freedom", Hitler was trained to become an animal; a soulless animal.

Animal-Mother

The games depict blatant killing of the Nazis as if they were all evil, which, and you can ask any educated historian, is completely false. The nazis were simply the german army they didn't necesarily share the same ideologies of the third reich just like today's troops in Iraq or yesterday's troops in Vietnam didn't agree with the reason they were fighting.

But ohhhh yeahhhh, lets just go kill some Nazis, so fun! They were all evil, the entire nation of germany was apparently "pure" evil, I suppose not one Nazi just wanted to fighting to honor his country?

And before you flame me, just think of the game Stalin vs. Martians, which this site recognized as a full-fledged video game, albeit a bad one, and legitimately reviewed. Sure people complained that it was bad but I didnt hear about anyone complaining about how it glorified Stalin, a dictator which topped Hitler on the genocide number.

sacredtext62

If you hate killing nazis then you must be mad at a whole lotta FPS.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

Hitler was quite an interesting person. And I actually agreed with a lot of his world views. Not everything the man said or did was crazy out there, but we only remember what we're forced to remember. Like the people who are forced to fight for "freedom", Hitler was trained to become an animal; a soulless animal.

the best part of this whole thing is when people that lump all ww2 era Germans into the Nazi party play WW2 games as Soviets and see no problem with it.

and no I am not saying all WW2 Russian troops were all evil commies before someone trys to spin that at me.

But they turn into Paranormal Zombie Nazis! :evil: They are as evil as can be!