I think I found one of the reasons many players cant see 30 and 60 fps diff

I was just at a friends house and noticed him playing Oblivion on his xbox. It looked SMOOTH. Like as smooth as my PC has ever run it. Then I noticed some blurring of his cursor when he moved fast. I realized he had his TV's '120hz' mode on. It takes the 30fps image and upconverts it to 120hz. There is some slight lag and very fast moving objects can blur (which to me is horribly annoying) but he didnt care. He prefered the smoothness. And I have to say it was smooth.

I'm not super smart with these stuff, but isn't 120hz just the refresh rate?funsohng

You can't up convert from 30FPS to 120hz (or 120FPS for that matter). Every frame rendered is just displayed four times. Anyhow, the reason people can't tell as much is because LCD pixel response (grey to grey, white to white, etc.) isn't great. The end result is one frame bleeds slightly into the next. Instead of flickering like you'd get on a CRT, you get blurring. Pick your poison.

The difference is actually noticable, even on console games.

Play Halo Reach, then play Call of Duty 4. Which has smoother animation?

It's very noticeable on consoles, just play a 60fps game like say Forza 3 and then go to different racing game like PGR and you'll immediately notice the choppyness.

60 FPS, is for the most part as "smooth" as it gets, exept in some games. Half-Life 1 engine, you can see a difference between the engines stock capped fps limiter, which is 72, and 101, which is what everyone that knows about tweaking plays with. You can see noticeable difference a monitor that can run 60 hz, and one that can run 100 hz. People say the human eye cannot see that many pictures per second, and it cant. But when it comes to looking at a screen it works differently.

[QUOTE="funsohng"]I'm not super smart with these stuff, but isn't 120hz just the refresh rate?ducati101

Its not the same on HDTV's these TV's cant actually accept a 120hz signal.... It just doubles the 60hz signal its getting an adds frames. Its a fake 120hz if you will. The game do actually look very smooth with the option as I've tried it with a few games FF13,RDR,DA. It does add some input lag, but for SP games it acceptable and not really noticable. I would not recomend playing a competitive game with it though.

Yeah my TV has that vivid motion thing or whatever its called, it makes the games look a lot smoother but the blurriness gets annoying.

Yeah I dont mean the refresh rate, I mean the TV's can actually do some post processing to appear as though they are 120hz. Its smoothmotion, vivid motion, etc. And no, with that on you actually cant tell a difference in framerate.

Just get a pair of fanboy goggles, then you really cant tell the difference.

One question, TC. Was it smooth?mrmusicman247

As smooth as MJ being a criminal.

Yeah, there is more to it than the refresh rate. A movie is filmed at 24fps, but using motion flow or other types makes it look smoother, with some drawbacks. But usually the smoothness outweighs the drawbacks.

Though too much of it can make the movie look more like a amateur movie, as I have seen on some TV's. The most important thing is that the framerate in games is stable, at 30 or 60fps.

You can't up convert from 30FPS to 120hz (or 120FPS for that matter). Every frame rendered is just displayed four times.

juno84

[QUOTE="juno84"]

You can't up convert from 30FPS to 120hz (or 120FPS for that matter). Every frame rendered is just displayed four times.

Teufelhuhn

Seems like that would be pretty horrible. I don't see a way a solution like that could work with out creating display lag (something LCD TVs are already notorious for).

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="juno84"]

You can't up convert from 30FPS to 120hz (or 120FPS for that matter). Every frame rendered is just displayed four times.

juno84

Seems like that would be pretty horrible. I don't see a way a solution like that could work with out creating display lag (something LCD TVs are already notorious for).

You know what really weird about inFamous? It will alternate between 30 and 60 fps. Not kidding. You'll be climbing a building and all of a sudden it runs really, really smooth. :Pmrmusicman247

Obligatory animation that shows the 30 vs 60 fps difference

I don't think that is the reason. My TV is 240Hz and I didn't notice any difference when I was testing PS3 games on my new monitor which is only 60Hz. Both screens are Full 1080p so it wasn't a resolution thing either

You know what really weird about inFamous? It will alternate between 30 and 60 fps. Not kidding. You'll be climbing a building and all of a sudden it runs really, really smooth. :Pmrmusicman247

AC and ACII do the same on the PS3... and not sure about it but IIRC MGS4 had parts like that too.

[QUOTE="mrmusicman247"]You know what really weird about inFamous? It will alternate between 30 and 60 fps. Not kidding. You'll be climbing a building and all of a sudden it runs really, really smooth. :PGreenGoblin2099

AC and ACII do the same on the PS3... and not sure about it but IIRC MGS4 had parts like that too.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="juno84"]

You can't up convert from 30FPS to 120hz (or 120FPS for that matter). Every frame rendered is just displayed four times.

juno84

Seems like that would be pretty horrible. I don't see a way a solution like that could work with out creating display lag (something LCD TVs are already notorious for).

I absolutely despise motionflow and have it turned off all the time. I enjoy my movies at 1080/24p.....as for games....well the ones that really matter I play on PC.

I'm not sure how you can upconvert frames into frequency, but sure, as long as it was smooth :P

I hate interpolation, and so does everyone I know.

[QUOTE="mrmusicman247"]You know what really weird about inFamous? It will alternate between 30 and 60 fps. Not kidding. You'll be climbing a building and all of a sudden it runs really, really smooth. :PGreenGoblin2099

AC and ACII do the same on the PS3... and not sure about it but IIRC MGS4 had parts like that too.

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

[QUOTE="mrmusicman247"]You know what really weird about inFamous? It will alternate between 30 and 60 fps. Not kidding. You'll be climbing a building and all of a sudden it runs really, really smooth. :PTerrorRizzing

AC and ACII do the same on the PS3... and not sure about it but IIRC MGS4 had parts like that too.

Those TVs fake it by making up frames, interpolation. It is not good for games since you get blurring and other issues.