If everyone hates Oblivion so much....

Even though i am on same side as you - i decided to realy try to play "role playing " element in Oblivion.

I created MONK character (called Adrian lol :P )

And whole time im fighting with bare hand. No items or smthing - just hands and some boots or something.

IT IS MY CHOICE to play game as monk. My choice is not to pick any "stuff" that will ruin it

It is hard,i dont know if i will be able to finish game this way, but at least i will feel like being in rpg

Yes,my actions wont have much consequences,and i could also create mage character and play it as monk - and that is where oblivion lacks.

And i agree with you on most part

Lidve

Sure, but in that case you're just pretending that the game has role-playing elements - the game doesn't ackowledge the fact that you're trying to play as a monk, and everything plays out in exactly the same way (aside from the self-imposed play style).

Oblivion was a great game for a while with a truly massive over-world to explore but about 2/3 through the game I sorta felt a bit cheated. The enemy leveling was a awful idea as well.

Most would say when comparing the game straight up against other console RPG's of it's time, the game was Great.

Most who hate it are angry hermits that now find Beth. to be the devil incarnate for making Fallout 3 too much like a Oblivion.

[QUOTE="Lidve"]

Even though i am on same side as you - i decided to realy try to play "role playing " element in Oblivion.

I created MONK character (called Adrian lol :P )

And whole time im fighting with bare hand. No items or smthing - just hands and some boots or something.

IT IS MY CHOICE to play game as monk. My choice is not to pick any "stuff" that will ruin it

It is hard,i dont know if i will be able to finish game this way, but at least i will feel like being in rpg

Yes,my actions wont have much consequences,and i could also create mage character and play it as monk - and that is where oblivion lacks.

And i agree with you on most part

Planeforger

Sure, but in that case you're just pretending that the game has role-playing elements - the game doesn't ackowledge the fact that you're trying to play as a monk, and everything plays out in exactly the same way (aside from the self-imposed play style).

:P

The issue with Oblivion was that it lacked true RPG elements. It was more of a action/adventure game than an RPG. That's why Bethesda is catching so much heat from gamers over Fallout 3, as it is being morphed into a FPS.

Why is the user score 9.5 on the Xbox and 9.3 on the PC?:|insanejedi

Because we have our own opinion's.

I honestly don't see how Morrowind>>>>Oblivion. Oblivion is nothing but an Improvment over Morrowind.

Morrowind NPCs: Just stand in spot forever or walk back and forth in an endless loop forever.

Oblivion NPCs: Actually move around and go places and do things.

Morrowind Combat: I have to hack at someone 15 times before I hit them with a new weapon. Too bad my shield is just there for show and armor rating.

Oblivion Combat: Now I don't have to swing my new weapon over and over again just to land a weak hit, and I can now block attacks if want.

Morrowind Lock Picking: Dang, I need a skill of 90 to pick that lock, looks like I'll have to go around looking for locks that I can pick to raise my skill level.

Oblivion Lock Picking: I can pick any lock I want to, even though my skill level is low, I can at least give it a shot on harder locks.

The list goes on. Oblivion even has voice actors for every single person. (Even though there are only about 5 voice actors to speak for all the NPCs, everyone has something different to say depending on who they are) Morrowind has too many gaps you need to fill in with your imagination.

Blegh.

No Arrrr Peee Geeee ere folks

I honestly don't see how Morrowind>>>>Oblivion. Oblivion is nothing but an Improvment over Morrowind.

Morrowind NPCs: Just stand in spot forever or walk back and forth in an endless loop forever.

Oblivion NPCs: Actually move around and go places and do things.

Morrowind Combat: I have to hack at someone 15 times before I hit them with a new weapon. Too bad my shield is just there for show and armor rating.

Oblivion Combat: Now I don't have to swing my new weapon over and over again just to land a weak hit, and I can now block attacks if want.

Morrowind Lock Picking: Dang, I need a skill of 90 to pick that lock, looks like I'll have to go around looking for locks that I can pick to raise my skill level.

Oblivion Lock Picking: I can pick any lock I want to, even though my skill level is low, I can at least give it a shot on harder locks.

The list goes on. Oblivion even has voice actors for every single person. (Even though there are only about 5 voice actors to speak for all the NPCs, everyone has something different to say depending on who they are) Morrowind has too many gaps you need to fill in with your imagination.

GeoffZak

Well now the AI walks into walls for hours and talks about mudcrabs endlessly instead..big improvement :P.

You are right in what you said, all aspects of the ACTION side of the game were improved while everything else that makes up an RPG was removed or dumbed down to uselessness.

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

I honestly don't see how Morrowind>>>>Oblivion. Oblivion is nothing but an Improvment over Morrowind.

Morrowind NPCs: Just stand in spot forever or walk back and forth in an endless loop forever.

Oblivion NPCs: Actually move around and go places and do things.

Morrowind Combat: I have to hack at someone 15 times before I hit them with a new weapon. Too bad my shield is just there for show and armor rating.

Oblivion Combat: Now I don't have to swing my new weapon over and over again just to land a weak hit, and I can now block attacks if want.

Morrowind Lock Picking: Dang, I need a skill of 90 to pick that lock, looks like I'll have to go around looking for locks that I can pick to raise my skill level.

Oblivion Lock Picking: I can pick any lock I want to, even though my skill level is low, I can at least give it a shot on harder locks.

The list goes on. Oblivion even has voice actors for every single person. (Even though there are only about 5 voice actors to speak for all the NPCs, everyone has something different to say depending on who they are) Morrowind has too many gaps you need to fill in with your imagination.

Stonin

Well now the AI walks into walls for hours and talks about mudcrabs endlessly instead..big improvement :P.

You are right in what you said, all aspects of the ACTION side of the game were improved while everything else that makes up an RPG was removed or dumbed down to uselessness.

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=6KN7cKO8-P0

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=1ATh4y4XRjA

I honestly don't see how Morrowind>>>>Oblivion. Oblivion is nothing but an Improvment over Morrowind.

Morrowind NPCs: Just stand in spot forever or walk back and forth in an endless loop forever.

Oblivion NPCs: Actually move around and go places and do things.

Morrowind Combat: I have to hack at someone 15 times before I hit them with a new weapon. Too bad my shield is just there for show and armor rating.

Oblivion Combat: Now I don't have to swing my new weapon over and over again just to land a weak hit, and I can now block attacks if want.

Morrowind Lock Picking: Dang, I need a skill of 90 to pick that lock, looks like I'll have to go around looking for locks that I can pick to raise my skill level.

Oblivion Lock Picking: I can pick any lock I want to, even though my skill level is low, I can at least give it a shot on harder locks.

The list goes on. Oblivion even has voice actors for every single person. (Even though there are only about 5 voice actors to speak for all the NPCs, everyone has something different to say depending on who they are) Morrowind has too many gaps you need to fill in with your imagination.

GeoffZak

Gaps for your imagination?

Fill me in on your fantastic wisdom cause I'm flat confused on how the rpg depth of oblivion is superior to that of morrowind when pretty much none of the statistics do jack in oblivion, the characters interaction is pointless and your actions have no cause and effect to them (factions were useless in oblivion).

Also the voice acting in oblivion was freakin horrible, thats one of the game breakers.

And last I checked having to learn how to fight with a weapon, magic, armor, alchemy, etc wasn't a bad thing, thats one of the things that has always made morrowind superior to oblivion, is that you actually had to work for your characters development.

Oblivion is elder scrolls in easy mode (don't try that you can change the difficulty bs with me).

I honestly don't see how Morrowind>>>>Oblivion. Oblivion is nothing but an Improvment over Morrowind.

Morrowind NPCs: Just stand in spot forever or walk back and forth in an endless loop forever.

Oblivion NPCs: Actually move around and go places and do things.

Morrowind Combat: I have to hack at someone 15 times before I hit them with a new weapon. Too bad my shield is just there for show and armor rating.

Oblivion Combat: Now I don't have to swing my new weapon over and over again just to land a weak hit, and I can now block attacks if want.

Morrowind Lock Picking: Dang, I need a skill of 90 to pick that lock, looks like I'll have to go around looking for locks that I can pick to raise my skill level.

Oblivion Lock Picking: I can pick any lock I want to, even though my skill level is low, I can at least give it a shot on harder locks.

The list goes on. Oblivion even has voice actors for every single person. (Even though there are only about 5 voice actors to speak for all the NPCs, everyone has something different to say depending on who they are) Morrowind has too many gaps you need to fill in with your imagination.

GeoffZak

Yes, I really loved it when I would walk through a town and stumble across to NPC with the same voice talking to each other about how much they hated mudcrabs.

Oblivion is a vast improvement over Morrowind. Here are just a few examples: In Morrowind you had to figure things out for yourself. For example, an NPC gives me a quest saying go north to a lake then for north east and look for a cave facing south. What the hell is this, some kinda hiking trip? You mean I have to find what I'm looking for? What a load of crap. Thankfully Oblivion gives me a quest arrow so I always know where I'm going. Assuming I didn't want to take the time to walk there I could just teleport myself and not waste the time. I think future Elder Scrolls games should just be a series of tubes(liek teh intrenets!), cut out all this pain in the ass walking around. I want action!

Remember the Mystic Dawn quest? Good thing I didn't have to figure thatone out for myself, a friendly NPC did it for me...when she was done talking about mudcrabs, that is.

In Morrowind I had to read text. If I want to read, I'll pick up a book, but books are for nerds, so I don't do that. Oblivion cut out having to read and replaced it with voice actors(7 different people!). That means the amount of decent dialog is reduced but that's ok, I play RPGs for the action, not to sit around and listen to someone tell me a story.

This is just the tip of the iceberg on why Oblivion is better than Morrowind. I'd think of more but I gotta go floss. Maybe I'll come back and post more if the PC nerds come in and start hatin' on one of the most EPIC RPGS EVER CREATED!

Morrowind Lock Picking: Dang, I need a skill of 90 to pick that lock, looks like I'll have to go around looking for locks that I can pick to raise my skill level.

Oblivion Lock Picking: I can pick any lock I want to, even though my skill level is low, I can at least give it a shot on harder locks.

GeoffZak

I'd consider lockpicking to be a great example of where Oblivion failed as an RPG.

Let's say that I'm roleplaying as a big, clumsy orc barbarian in both games:
In Morrowind, he would be infinitely worse at picking locks than a master thief would be, since his skill is low - he must train himself if he wants to be able to pick locks well.

In Oblivion, he would be almost as good as a master thief at picking locks, since my skill at timing things in the minigame is far more important than my character's ability to prevent the pins from falling.

In a way, they both make sense (I suppose that practice and dumb luck are both viable options in real life), but Oblivion's method favours the player far too much - any of my characters could reliably crack the most difficult locks, even if they'd never seen a lock before in their lives.
It weakened the roleplaying elements of the game - thieves were about as useful as everyone else at picking locks - and the skeleton key made the entire skil redundant.

I'd consider lockpicking to be a great example of where Oblivion failed as an RPG.

Let's say that I'm roleplaying as a big, clumsy orc barbarian in both games:
In Morrowind, he would be infinitely worse at picking locks than a master thief would be, since his skill is low - he must train himself if he wants to be able to pick locks well.

In Oblivion, he would be almost as good as a master thief at picking locks, since my skill at timing things in the minigame is far more important than my character's ability to prevent the pins from falling.

In a way, they both make sense (I suppose that practice and dumb luck are both viable options in real life), but Oblivion's method favours the player far too much - any of my characters could reliably crack the most difficult locks, even if they'd never seen a lock before in their lives.
It weakened the roleplaying elements of the game - thieves were about as useful as everyone else at picking locks - and the skeleton key made the entire skil redundant.

Planeforger

In Morrowind you had to figure things out for yourself. For example, an NPC gives me a quest saying go north to a lake then for north east and look for a cave facing south. What the hell is this, some kinda hiking trip? You mean I have to find what I'm looking for? What a load of crap. Thankfully Oblivion gives me a quest arrow so I always know where I'm going. Assuming I didn't want to take the time to walk there I could just teleport myself and not waste the time. blaaah

Haha unles you was being sarcastic,you just admited that oblivion is dumbed down.

Do you really think if someone told you "go buy me cigaretes" you will see some strange arrow floating around you telling you where to go?

I dont think so - in best case, you will get directions (which arent that hard to follow afterall)

And that is one of things that make EXPLORING in morrowind actualy EXPLORING not FOLLOWING ARROW like in oblivion lol

Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.Planeforger

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

Why is the user score 9.5 on the Xbox and 9.3 on the PC?:|insanejedi

because thats an opinion. i never hated it. just to blah for me...

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.ZIMdoom

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

Nonsence,morrowind also came to consoles and we didnt complain

Oblivion is dumbed down tahts FACT only thing that is bether is combat and graphics end of story

I think it's the PC fanboy's upset with Bethesda for bring the elderscroll series to consoles. Then doing the same with Fallout. Now anything they make hermits will relentlessly attack! Oblivion is a great game period. Don't let these coke bottle glasses wearing fanboy's in their mothers basement influence you in anyway...PLEASE!full_disclosure

Your stupid :| Morrowind came out for consoles as well.. And it doesn't get bashed what so ever.. Because its actually a rpg.. Oblivion takes the smallest amount of thought to play...

Doesn't it bother any one that you can beat 99% of the game at level 2? To me that is just testament to the dumbed down nature..

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.ZIMdoom

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

Wait what? Just what did Oblivion offer? Because I have seen nohting that hasn't been done before, its a pusedo crap rpg game.. Maybe if you guys like not thinking by all means, you may enjoy it..

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.ZIMdoom

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.ZIMdoom

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.KodiakGTS

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

It is like if you remove weapons,cars and cheats from GTA

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.KodiakGTS

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

No game is perfect remember that.

The people who are writing on forums that they hate 0blivion and calling it worst game ever are inmature.Oblivion wouldnt be game of the year right?

Hermit elitists didn't like it but it was a good game. WHat ? If it wouldn't have been the way it was I would't have bought it . Same goes with fallout 3 . If it would've been isometric it would've been crap in my eyes , unfortunately hermits seem to get an orgy from isometric views and point and click games.AtrumRegina

Hermit elitists didn't like it but it was a good game. WHat ? If it wouldn't have been the way it was I would't have bought it . Same goes with fallout 3 . If it would've been isometric it would've been crap in my eyes , unfortunately hermits seem to get an orgy from isometric views and point and click games.AtrumRegina

you are just proovin our point.. our most beloved titles are being dumbed down for ones like you WHO NEVER ACTUALY PLAYED ORIGINALS

Hermit elitists didn't like it but it was a good game. WHat ? If it wouldn't have been the way it was I would't have bought it . Same goes with fallout 3 . If it would've been isometric it would've been crap in my eyes , unfortunately hermits seem to get an orgy from isometric views and point and click games.AtrumRegina

Don't be such an ass. No one has ever asked for Fallout to be isometric or point and click as that is NOT what made Fallout so great....you really don't understand the issues at hand so why bother posting?

[QUOTE="AtrumRegina"]Hermit elitists didn't like it but it was a good game. WHat ? If it wouldn't have been the way it was I would't have bought it . Same goes with fallout 3 . If it would've been isometric it would've been crap in my eyes , unfortunately hermits seem to get an orgy from isometric views and point and click games.Stonin

Don't be such an ass. No one has ever asked for Fallout to be isometric or point and click as that is NOT what made Fallout so great....you really don't understand the issues at hand so why bother posting?

He obviously never played original Fallout, but unfortunately,we ho ACTUALY PLAYED IT AND LOVED IT will not get what we want - people like him will

No game is perfect remember that.

The people who are writing on forums that they hate 0blivion and calling it worst game ever are inmature.Oblivion wouldnt be game of the year right?

haemorrhagiae

I think Oblivion recieved GOTY because very few reviewers or members of the press had actually played it through at that point.

When you start out it looks, on the surface, like it could be great. If they had spent the time to get about a 1/3 of the way in and start seeing the massive game breaking flaws that might have been enough to change their opinion.

No game is perfect remember that.

The people who are writing on forums that they hate 0blivion and calling it worst game ever are inmature.Oblivion wouldnt be game of the year right?

haemorrhagiae

It's weak by RPG standards.

[QUOTE="haemorrhagiae"]

No game is perfect remember that.

The people who are writing on forums that they hate 0blivion and calling it worst game ever are inmature.Oblivion wouldnt be game of the year right?

Tony-Harrison

It's weak by RPG standards.

We dont want GAME we want ROLE PLAYING GAME

If they want to create "game" than be it - but call it some other name or whatever lol

No game is perfect remember that.

The people who are writing on forums that they hate 0blivion and calling it worst game ever are inmature.Oblivion wouldnt be game of the year right?

haemorrhagiae

Hey dont get us wrong - oblivion is great game

but it isnt great RPG ,and RPG is what we want simple as that

So uhh...has anyone in this thread actually pointed out why it's so great yet? Because all I've seen (as usual) are childish generalisations or people hiding behind review scores.RobbieH1234

They can't. When you actually stop and think about the game you see all of it's flaws. If you love a mindless monster hunt then it's great...but not many want to own up to that :P (not the same as Diablo, that requires a little skill :D).

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]Well, Oblivion was aimed at a casual audience, so it makes sense that the 'hardcore' RPG fans who hate the game are in the minority.KodiakGTS

One would think that any so-called "hardcore RPG fan" would be able to appreciate a game like Oblivion for what it offered and all it did well. Clearly, it isn't "hardcore" RPG fans who are complaining, but PC fanboys who are angry that their games are coming to consoles.

Its if the games design is violated for a different audience.

See Deus Ex Invisible War, and Oblivion.

Morrowind was a streamlined RPG from Beths previous incarnations, however it hit the balance between accessibility and hardcore, PC gamers had nothing against its XBox port, at all.

However Oblivion was made from the ground up for both the 360 and PC, and Beth decided to concentrate on an audience that just wanted action. and thats it. An audience that doesent want depth and role playing, rather one that wants to be hand held, and wants a tightly controlled experience with high production values.

Worst thing was many gamers took the bait willingly, and nearly reviewers leapt all over it like blind, dumb gushing idiots, completely ignoringany faults, under the massive Beth controlled hype (note that Bethseda is notorious for Hype control, post Oblivion)

The term 'consolised' is more of a direct attack on the audience, wheras it really is the developer who is to blame.

At least with games like Deus Ex Iwar, even UT3 recently the devs got / were hit by such design changes, from the core fanbase and sales wise.