If Expansion Packs "Count" then why doesn't Ninja Gaiden Sigma?

Yeah, I know, really old topic, but I was just thinking.........

Ok, so apparently Expansion Packs "count" as AAAe/AAe/Ae..etc..

then why doesn't Ninja Gaiden Sigma "count" as AAAe?

Taken from the Gamespot Review

A lot of new content in the form of new boss battles, new weapons, and new enemies

Subtle changes and additions make the gameplay even more centered and compelling

Why should expansion packs on PC "count" and not Ninja Gaiden Sigma?

because many expansion packs would have as much content as the whole game and not just the extra contentnaval

If that was true, then it wouldn't be an expansion pack.

I think it's the volume of content added. Sigma just added what, 10% more gameplay? Expansions often add 50-100% more gameplay, as measured in time spent, not size.

It comes down to this, if I played the original would I want to pay to play this extra content? What Xbox owneer in their right mind rebought NG? Now how many millions of people have bought an expansion pack? Clearly, there is a huge difference, you just aren't seeing it.

[QUOTE="naval"]because many expansion packs would have as much content as the whole game and not just the extra contentKing_of_Sorrow

If that was true, then it wouldn't be an expansion pack.

No, it still would be.

This phenomena of "counting expansion packs" has to end if this board is to survive as the internet's premiere place for mature intelligent discourse on what fanboy is getting pwned at any given time.JiveT

Explain. Why shouldn't they count?

I think it's the volume of content added. Sigma just added what, 10% more gameplay? Expansions often add 50-100% more gameplay, as measured in time spent, not size.

It comes down to this, if I played the original would I want to pay to play this extra content? What Xbox owneer in their right mind rebought NG? Now how many millions of people have bought an expansion pack? Clearly, there is a huge difference, you just aren't seeing it.

agentfred

It's the same principal though. I understand what you're saying, but honestly, do we really have a measuring stick of how much extra content expansion packs are adding? Not really.

EDIT: Also, it seems like Sigma added quite a bit of stuff (based on the word "a lot")

A lot of new content in the form of new boss battles, new weapons, and new enemies

I think most of the time it goes by a case by case basis, basically there's really not enough in NGS to say you have to buy it again. From the review "If you're a Ninja Gaiden enthusiast, you'll want to see the new chapters, reworked levels, and slicker graphics."

I don't think lemmings got to count black as a second AAAE either, but nobody was really talking about AAAE's back then.

[QUOTE="naval"]because many expansion packs would have as much content as the whole game and not just the extra contentKing_of_Sorrow

If that was true, then it wouldn't be an expansion pack.

that's the truth! to me games like cod 4 looks more of expansion pack ( from what i have seen) than many expansion packs i have played

If Ninja Gaiden Sigma counts, then so does Virtua Fighter 5 Online.;)BioShockOwnz

and so then GeoW i guess

[QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"]

[QUOTE="naval"]because many expansion packs would have as much content as the whole game and not just the extra contentagentfred

If that was true, then it wouldn't be an expansion pack.

No, it still would be.

No way...If the expansion had just as much new content as the old game, then it would be a new game i.e WOW 2, not WOW frozen throne expansion pack.

I think it's the volume of content added. Sigma just added what, 10% more gameplay? Expansions often add 50-100% more gameplay, as measured in time spent, not size.

It comes down to this, if I played the original would I want to pay to play this extra content? What Xbox owneer in their right mind rebought NG? Now how many millions of people have bought an expansion pack? Clearly, there is a huge difference, you just aren't seeing it.

agentfred

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]If Ninja Gaiden Sigma counts, then so does Virtua Fighter 5 Online.;)naval

and so then GeoW i guess

Yup, indeed. 5 new missions!

[QUOTE="JiveT"]This phenomena of "counting expansion packs" has to end if this board is to survive as the internet's premiere place for mature intelligent discourse on what fanboy is getting pwned at any given time.agentfred

Explain. Why shouldn't they count?

OK. I will. Take Shivering Isles expansion pack for example because its on PC and 360. It got a review of 8.6

If this was launched as a "stand alone" game it would have been docked quite a bit. But its reviewed as an "expansion pack". So there is a double standard. Therefore they don't count.

[QUOTE="agentfred"]

[QUOTE="JiveT"]This phenomena of "counting expansion packs" has to end if this board is to survive as the internet's premiere place for mature intelligent discourse on what fanboy is getting pwned at any given time.JiveT

Explain. Why shouldn't they count?

OK. I will. Take Shivering Isles expansion pack for example because its on PC and 360. It got a review of 8.6

If this was launched as a "stand alone" game it would have been docked quite a bit. But its reviewed as an "expansion pack". So there is a double standard. Therefore they don't count.

no, it wouldnt have beccause it costs less than a full game.

[QUOTE="agentfred"][QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"]

[QUOTE="naval"]because many expansion packs would have as much content as the whole game and not just the extra contentKing_of_Sorrow

If that was true, then it wouldn't be an expansion pack.

No, it still would be.

No way...If the expansion had just as much new content as the old game, then it would be a new game i.e WOW 2, not WOW frozen throne expansion pack.

let me give you an example :- Dawn of War ( DoW) orignal had 3 race. a new expansion (standalone) has 2 new races , flying units for all other races ( 10-11), anit air units for other races and slew of other content

[QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]If Ninja Gaiden Sigma counts, then so does Virtua Fighter 5 Online.;)BioShockOwnz

and so then GeoW i guess

Yup, indeed. 5 new missions!

Sigma is an AAA game on the PS3. What it is NOT, is an AAA exclusive. Its the same way that Gears of War PC is not an AAA PC exclusive.

[QUOTE="agentfred"][QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"]

[QUOTE="naval"]because many expansion packs would have as much content as the whole game and not just the extra contentKing_of_Sorrow

If that was true, then it wouldn't be an expansion pack.

No, it still would be.

No way...If the expansion had just as much new content as the old game, then it would be a new game i.e WOW 2, not WOW frozen throne expansion pack.

GalCiv 2: Dark Avatar is one such case.

From the review:

"Dark Avatar is technically a "mere" expansion to Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords, but the added features are so profound that it feels like a new and even better game"

It's still considered an expansion though.

I'm not a fan of counting expansion packs. Look at it this way, if you count expansion packs the Halo 2 Map Pack would have been a AA exclusive for the Xbox last gen. So assuming MS does the same thing with Halo 3 are people going to be willing to accept that a map pack is a AAE? PBSnipes

map pack and expansion packs are comparable, :lol: :lol:

let me give you an example :- Dawn of War ( DoW) orignal had 3 race. a new expansion (standalone) has 2 new races , flying units for all other races ( 10-11), anit air units for other races and slew of other content

naval

Yeah that what expansion packs do. They expand the game. I just don't understand why they are counted has seperate. SW is really a place forfanboys. The thinking and rules are skewed.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]I'm not a fan of counting expansion packs. Look at it this way, if you count expansion packs the Halo 2 Map Pack would have been a AA exclusive for the Xbox last gen. So assuming MS does the same thing with Halo 3 are people going to be willing to accept that a map pack is a AAE? naval

map pack and expansion packs are comparable, :lol: :lol:

[QUOTE="agentfred"]

[QUOTE="JiveT"]This phenomena of "counting expansion packs" has to end if this board is to survive as the internet's premiere place for mature intelligent discourse on what fanboy is getting pwned at any given time.JiveT

Explain. Why shouldn't they count?

OK. I will. Take Shivering Isles expansion pack for example because its on PC and 360. It got a review of 8.6

If this was launched as a "stand alone" game it would have been docked quite a bit. But its reviewed as an "expansion pack". So there is a double standard. Therefore they don't count.

I'm not trying to correct you, but I thought Gamespot reviewed expansion packs individualy, and not relative to the original. I could be wrong though.

[QUOTE="naval"]

let me give you an example :- Dawn of War ( DoW) orignal had 3 race. a new expansion (standalone) has 2 new races , flying units for all other races ( 10-11), anit air units for other races and slew of other content

King_of_Sorrow

Yeah that what expansion packs do. They expand the game. I just don't understand why they are counted has seperate. SW is really a place forfanboys. The thinking and rules are skewed.

they have much more content and value than so many other games. so why shouldn't they ? if they don't then games shorter than those shouldn't also be counted i think

[QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]I'm not a fan of counting expansion packs. Look at it this way, if you count expansion packs the Halo 2 Map Pack would have been a AA exclusive for the Xbox last gen. So assuming MS does the same thing with Halo 3 are people going to be willing to accept that a map pack is a AAE? PBSnipes

map pack and expansion packs are comparable, :lol: :lol:

the reason is amount of content it adds, though getting reviewed is a prerequisite

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"][QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]I'm not a fan of counting expansion packs. Look at it this way, if you count expansion packs the Halo 2 Map Pack would have been a AA exclusive for the Xbox last gen. So assuming MS does the same thing with Halo 3 are people going to be willing to accept that a map pack is a AAE? naval

map pack and expansion packs are comparable, :lol: :lol:

the reason is amount of content it adds, though getting reviewed is a prerequisite

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="PBSnipes"][QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]I'm not a fan of counting expansion packs. Look at it this way, if you count expansion packs the Halo 2 Map Pack would have been a AA exclusive for the Xbox last gen. So assuming MS does the same thing with Halo 3 are people going to be willing to accept that a map pack is a AAE? PBSnipes

map pack and expansion packs are comparable, :lol: :lol:

the reason is amount of content it adds, though getting reviewed is a prerequisite

Yep, just like I posted earlier. Too much grey area....how much new content is required?

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="PBSnipes"][QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]I'm not a fan of counting expansion packs. Look at it this way, if you count expansion packs the Halo 2 Map Pack would have been a AA exclusive for the Xbox last gen. So assuming MS does the same thing with Halo 3 are people going to be willing to accept that a map pack is a AAE? PBSnipes

map pack and expansion packs are comparable, :lol: :lol:

the reason is amount of content it adds, though getting reviewed is a prerequisite

exactly ! we don't remove games which last less than 7 hrs because on average games don't last so less. same with expansion packs. but not the same with map packs !

Yep, just like I posted earlier. Too much grey area....how much new content is required?

MikeE21286

I think a little good judgement goes a long way here. Because it's impossible to make an exact cut-off for what counts and what doesn't, I think we'll have to make a reasonable call (I know, unlikely on System Wars). Do you think that a map pack should be included? Of course not. Now, discarding any prejudice and fanboyish tendencies, do you think an expansion pack that potentially doubles the length and value of a game should be counted? Hopefully, you said yes. Finally, do you think an expansion pack, likely from EA:P, that adds very little to the original, possibly a singular new unit, a new stage etc. should be counted? I would say no, that it shouldn't.

As I said originally, I think the differentiating factor between an expansion, and an add-on is the volume of content that they add. If an expansion pack can offer gamers a package that the is worth their money, and adds signifigant content, then I can't provide a single reason why it should not be included. Besides the "Slippery-slope" argument, can you?

If Ninja Gaiden Sigma counts, then so does Virtua Fighter 5 Online.;)BioShockOwnz

Even with online, for a fighting game, that isnt much. If it were an fps game though then id prolly say that would be very huge for example lets say COD4 came out on the ps3 first but didnt have online play and then the 360 version came along but also added online, then that would be a very big blow because with an fps online it has more to offer then a fighting game online. :)

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]

Yep, just like I posted earlier. Too much grey area....how much new content is required?

agentfred

I think a little good judgement goes a long way here. Because it's impossible to make an exact cut-off for what counts and what doesn't, I think we'll have to make a reasonable call (I know, unlikely on System Wars). Do you think that a map pack should be included? Of course not. Now, discarding any prejudice and fanboyish tendencies, do you think an expansion pack that potentially doubles the length and value of a game should be counted? Hopefully, you said yes. Finally, do you think an expansion pack, likely from EA:P, that adds very little to the original, possibly a singular new unit, a new stage etc. should be counted? I would say no, that it shouldn't.

As I said originally, I think the differentiating factor between an expansion, and an add-on is the volume of content that they add. If an expansion pack can offer gamers a package that the is worth their money, and adds signifigant content, then I can't provide a single reason why it should not be included. Besides the "Slippery-slope" argument, can you?

Well it's like you said "reasonable judgement". I totally can respect your viewpoint. But in the climate that we "live" in on System Wars, reasonable judgement is not really commonplace. If ground-rules are to be placed, then I really can't see anyplace (in the structured framework that is system wars) for such a subjective matter as expansion packs.

But like you said, this is SW. People aren't going to be reasonable when it means the difference between an "opposing" platform getting an exclusive title or not, which is why we need to go for all or nothing when it comes to expansion packs. I'd be in favour of allowing expansion packs, but I know how ugly it'll get if we do. Do you really want 3 threads about wether or not expansion pack x has enough content to count?PBSnipes

We could ask Casey.:?

The argument that expansion packs are reviewed relative to other expansion packs and not stand alone games is reason enough.JiveT

It's accepted as a rule around here (as it rightfully should be). Don't like it because PC has more AAAe/AAe/Ae? THEN LEAVE. :lol:

The argument that expansion packs are reviewed relative to other expansion packs and not stand alone games is reason enough.JiveT

[QUOTE="JiveT"]The argument that expansion packs are reviewed relative to other expansion packs and not stand alone games is reason enough.Ogre_Mage

It's accepted as a rule around here (as it rightfully should be). Don't like it because PC has more AAAe/AAe/Ae? THEN LEAVE. :lol:

[QUOTE="Ogre_Mage"]

[QUOTE="JiveT"]The argument that expansion packs are reviewed relative to other expansion packs and not stand alone games is reason enough.MikeE21286

It's accepted as a rule around here (as it rightfully should be). Don't like it because PC has more AAAe/AAe/Ae? THEN LEAVE. :lol:

I'm implying he should leave if he disagrees with the rules so much. Gain some reading comprehension if you want to call me out over something that is already accepted as rule...

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"][QUOTE="Ogre_Mage"]

[QUOTE="JiveT"]The argument that expansion packs are reviewed relative to other expansion packs and not stand alone games is reason enough.Ogre_Mage

It's accepted as a rule around here (as it rightfully should be). Don't like it because PC has more AAAe/AAe/Ae? THEN LEAVE. :lol:

I'm implying he should leave if he disagrees with the rules so much. Gain some reading comprehension if you want to call me out over something that is already accepted as rule...

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"][QUOTE="Ogre_Mage"]

[QUOTE="JiveT"]The argument that expansion packs are reviewed relative to other expansion packs and not stand alone games is reason enough.Ogre_Mage

It's accepted as a rule around here (as it rightfully should be). Don't like it because PC has more AAAe/AAe/Ae? THEN LEAVE. :lol:

I'm implying he should leave if he disagrees with the rules so much. Gain some reading comprehension if you want to call me out over something that is already accepted as rule...

Expansion sets generally expand a great deal, sometime to the length of the original game.

[QUOTE="Ogre_Mage"][QUOTE="MikeE21286"][QUOTE="Ogre_Mage"]

[QUOTE="JiveT"]The argument that expansion packs are reviewed relative to other expansion packs and not stand alone games is reason enough.MikeE21286

It's accepted as a rule around here (as it rightfully should be). Don't like it because PC has more AAAe/AAe/Ae? THEN LEAVE. :lol:

I'm implying he should leave if he disagrees with the rules so much. Gain some reading comprehension if you want to call me out over something that is already accepted as rule...

Open for debate, sure. But, that doesn't mean it's going to change...

If you honestly disagree with the rules so much that it ruins your fun on the forums then why would you want to stay?