If MS were smart they would....

Cut all ties with xbone and END THIS CURRENT GEN WITH SCORPIO!

Because as it stands now, they have set themselves up to fail.

Why?

Because insisting on pandering to the current audience of xbone fanbase using this all for one idea will cripple their chances of any kind of legitimate success with a system like Scorpio. This is the polar opposite with the PS4 Pro and none of the xbox fans here seem to realize this fact so I'll point out a few reasons.

Reasons why MS deciding to extend the gen like Sony is a bad move.

• Exclusives

This can't be more of a missed opportunity by MS with a system as powerful as this. Why the **** would you limit a systems development potential to a base unit that is barely 1/4th of what the current model is capable of? SUICIDE! WASTE! FAILURE!

It's bad enough MS announced everything on xbox will now be on PC but to limit that potential even further by restricting the development to a system that can barely run games at 1080p is just crazy.

If MS simply announced that Scorpio would be the start of a new gen but keep all BC with xbone all that would be resolved and they could have a game like Star Citizen, for example, which would never even load on xbone be a title could push Scorpio sales as a console exclusive.

• No development incentive

All you see are xbox fans talk about how powerful the Scorpio will be and destroy the pro...yet what incentive do devs have to exploit that power when their development motivation is limited by 2 MAJOR things:

1. Developing with a restriction of needing the game to work on xbone as a base console.

2. Sales! The base sales of the Scorpio will be xbone and the base sales of Pro will be PS4 and development of games including multiplats will factor in those sales and the resources put into the creation.

There will be little to no incentive for devs to put in extra effort to exploit Scorpios power advantage over Pro because devs will still look at the their base users as PS4 and xbone owners which means working harder for xbone owners would gains little reward.

If MS introduced Scorpio as the start of a new gen devs would work harder to make the games on the unit stand out.

• Playing by Sony's rule book and not understanding the objective

The biggest point!

SPECIFICALLY, intending to not have exclusives, extend the current gen and include all PS4s is to ride on the current wave of PS4 success!!!!* This is the exact opposite for MS.

MS has missed this point COMPLETELY! Staying in this gen means continuing to try to clean up after the mess that was xbone where as Sony is ONLY doing it to build on success they currently have with PS4.

done///

Most if not all of these issues would be resolved if MS decided to END this current gen instead of trying to extend the current gen like Sony is doing!

lol it would be funny the people over at Sony laughing their asses off at how MS introduced this kind of system and fail to exploit it's advantages by doing what Sony NEEDS to do to stay successful....extend this gen.

How many agree, or do some of you honestly see Scorpio being some huge run away success while holding on xbone's coat tails from this gen lol?

Someone hasn't been paying attention when Microsoft is delivering their message on how they think console gaming is evolving.

Generations are over.

It doesn't exist anymore, they decided to release different segments of game consoles, and will refresh those when necessary, but games will work on all consoles anyway. The idea is that you have 1 game that runs on all different type of consoles. Weaker ones like the Xbox One, and stronger ones like the Scorpio. This will go on, and on, by releasing a new more powerful console every 3-4 years, which will put the other ones in a different segment. Giving players the ability to chose if they want a high-end, or mid-end console to play on, while keeping all their games, and not have to worry about "backwards compatibility", which will be a thing of the past.

Exactly the same as PC gaming is now, and Sony is going to follow, and do something similar. This is much more consumer first, just like the PS4 Pro can play PS4 games.

You're missing the point.

Even PC has games that aren't REQUIRED to work on older hardware. That's the key factor to MS saying all games will work on xbone and staying in the same gen hurt Scorpios potential and possible success.

Other than that, we all know and understand everything you wrote. Those things however do not address the points I brought up.

cry more loser. dark souls sucks

What a well thought out reply, how ever will I respond lol.

Not really, you're acting as if there's still a big console optimization difference between PC games, and console games, but that's practically gone. When they develop games, it isn't much of an issue anymore to make it run on multiple devices. It isn't holding Scorpio back, and eventually after 4-5 years the Xbox One will be phased out, since Scorpio will be the weakest console then. Still able to run Forza 5 (for example)

Spot on but MS is setting itself for failure because they are addicted to ownage and know that their fanbase is masochistic in that way. Lems, as usual, refuse to listen to reason and cover their ears like children but we all know that TLHBO.

That's optimistic, but if we are looking at it from the perspective of success it's most likely going to be under utilized.

You have to understand I think the Scorpio is a nice damn upgrade...but it's cannibalized by MS decision making on how to approach it trying to mirror Sony's actions. I understand PC development but consoles have potential to go well above PCs on the same hardware level.

Look at games like Ryse on xbone...lol a PC on the same level of xbone would choke to get the same performance, same with Quantum Break. Consoles closed box nature is one of the things that makes them so great and give them the potential to do more than what simple specs might give credit to.

A game like Star Citizen for example would absolutely be possible on a system like Scorpio...but would never happen because of the xbone restriction.

your shit crybaby thread got the response it deserved

That's why I'm avoiding both Pro and Scorpio- they're not going to add much besides better graphics and hopefully framerate if they can get that in gear.

As far as exclusives, I think Microsoft has made it clear over the past 10 years they do not want to invest in new game studios, but would rather continue with their usual first party trio, an occasional game here and there from people like Remedy and Rare, and fill the rest with 3rd party multiplats

OP makes valid points.

The upgraded consoles are just for 4k, even if they started over for a new gen they would be weak to begin with anyway. It seems games can be scaled easier so ditching xbox one and ps4 would be disastrous with such a huge userbase and devs would be losing out as most people arent ready to pony up for next gen consoles and tacking on the price of high end 4k tv set.

Spot on

Wow, you sure have a boner for MS.

MS is smart, that's why they won't listen to you

While I personally don't care if MS leaves the console market or not, who is gonna be Sony's Rival? Not Nintendo so that's out of the question but the thing is, if there is a huge demanding for Xbox brand, than MS isn't going anywhere. As for as exclusive games going to PC, there going to Windows 10 and that's MS main domain so there making even more money out of it and it's why they are staying because of it.

@davillain-: I bet you would care if Sony left.

As long as it's NOT Nintendo leaving, I couldn't careless if both Sony/MS leaves at all and I'll just play 3rd party games on PC anyways but knowing MS as well, I'm sure I'll still be able to play there 1st party games on Windows 10, so that's a giving.

... listen to Casharmy, cos he's the smarterest!

If he's so smart, why isn't he rich?

You mad that PlayStation no longer has exclusives. Poor guy.

@davillain-: I dunno, Sony might be paying him a pretty $10 per BS spewed.

@lundy86_4: he is probably getting some retirement perks from Sony too.

Careful, he'll get Cashangry and go tell on you to the mods.

@clone01:uh-oh lol

@kvally:I'm kinda jealous.

Threads like these aren't so bad or out of the ordinary until you catch Cash in the next thread trying to act completely unbiased and chewing peoples heads off if they insinuate otherwise.

And yes Cash, I understand that sometimes you just like stirring the shit and livening this board up a bit, but it comes off kinda weird lol.

Anyways, this isn't much worse than Commanders thread, two sides of the same coin I guess.

IMO, they don't really care about Scorpio not selling well as the PS4 Pro. Even if they don't sell as much as PS4 Pro. They will always be considered a significant console for companies to invest in. Same as Xbox One. Even though XB1 doesn't sell as much, massive amount of companies continue to invest into the console.

Scorpio can fall flat on it's face & it wouldn't matter much because it's pulling more devs into making UWP games & helping Microsoft get PC gaming into it's Windows 10 walled garden.

Scorpio is MS saying hey look we made a specialized gaming /media computer just for you all you have to do is start using UWP and make it exclusive to Windows 10.

UWP is their trump card nothing else. Everything else aggressive, comes later after that.

Microsoft's Scorpio exist only to introduce Windows 10 Only Gaming and dominate VR.

Over time this has become more and more apparent to many people.

http://www.windowscentral.com/project-scorpio?_ga=1.60556781.1989101721.1479191958

EDIT: XB1 isn't going to hold back Scorpio at all. If you know about Project Helix, how they manage to keep XB1 and Scorpio happy is. "When a game is being run by a customer, it will detect the hardware making the runtime request and unpack the correct assets dynamically". Then we have dynamic scaling for games, where they keep the framerate constant. but not the resolution as it changes on the fly.

I see the point the OP is making... but I think MS has to support the current XB1 for at least a good few years after Scorpio's release. After that, I'm sure some devs will start releasing games only on Scorpio, and then more people will start moving over to Scorpio as fewer and fewer games get released on the current model. Then they'll probably release another model in the distant future, Scorpio will become the base model, and the cycle will start over.

That's my guess anyway.

@casharmy: Your reputation and posting history is going to be working against you when you attempt to create a serious thread here. Who's going to take you serious with your posting history?

That being said. While MS certainly wouldn't make any 1st party games console exclusive to the Scorpio at first, I'd assume that after the first year or so, that all bets are off.

I also think that MS would allow some pc exclusive games to be allowed on the Scorpio while not being possible on the XB1 because of power, such as the SC reference you made. In fact, I believe they will encourage that.

If i can understand some of the point TC is making especially on utilisation for these new hardwares. I gotta say Microsoft clearly has a much better way of handling this than Sony. Dont let sony Mark Cerny shitty approach of base this, pro that, lock this, limit that fool you. Its where you can say these consoles aren't going to be utilise properly so there for its justifiable for pro moderate upgrade than Scorpio big upgrade. MS is handling this better by dynamically scaling to suit the console hardware. From resolution to the actual graphics settings. They wont care how shitty the original xboxone is.

Its going to be a slaughter so long as MS doesnt get suckered in to just a fix native 4k lock, then down sample for 1080p screen leaving that 6tf gpu performance strained by 4k resolution. Sony probably wish MS does that. Cant wait for the forgotten yet famous MS PR when Scorpio is around.

Only problem with this is that would be after the console had the opportunity for shock value.

When does the Scorpio need to make an impact to solidify itself to customers and fans alike, now or a few years? In a few years the next PS system will be here and all shock value will be lost.

Scorpio is a bold move...so the way MS should attack should also be bold.

It's like the they decided on building the most powerful cannon they could create for the money...and then said ok now lets arm it with paper shells. All I'm saying is they shouldn't play nice if the game is called hard ball. Sony is the one that needs to play the, no one left behind angle because it suits their end goal...extending the gen to maximize PS4 success.

MS should have came out and Laid down that the Scorpio will be the start of a new gen upon release and will have exclusives that are only capable on Scorpio and that would have lit a fire not only under Sony's ass but also people conservatively deciding on going with a Pro upgrade or Scorpio.

lol look at this fanboy goof troop circle jerk.

Between the lot of them there isn't much chance of finding any sources of intelligence, but they do provide a good source of empty fanboy drivel and victim complex syndrome lol.

God forbid fanboy drones post on a topic that actually requires a bit of reasoning to respond to and say something that isn't completely brain dead.

Hat's off to FastRobby for actually responding to the thread and having a reasonable and logical response to the topic of the thread.

MS and Sony say a lot of things to market their products and ease consumers' minds. And they change their policies a lot as reality sets in or when enough time has passed that the pill will be swallowed.

IMO, the Scorpio will NOT have 100% full forward-backward compatibility for the entirety of its lifespan. The power disparity with X1 is enormous. Here's how I think it's going to go down:

Year 1 - Scorpio has full FC/BC with X1.

Year 2 - Scorpio has 98%FC/100%BC with X1; press release "Consumers and developers have spoken, and we have listened - in order to provide the ultimate experience afforded by Scorpio's power, we have created a policy in which developers can now opt to employ full support for Scorpio, so that users with the XBox 1 can continue to receive great cutting edge gaming experiences, while consumers opting for a premium experience with Scorpio can receive tailor-made games that offer unprecedented visuals and performance not possible on other devices"

Year 3 (6 years into X1's life) - Scorpio has 60%FC/100%BC with X1. At this point, the X1 hardware is gruelingly dated, and thanks to MS's shift in policy, fewer devs are making X1 ports of Scorpio titles.

Year 4 - X1 support on new AAA continues to fade.

If you don't believe me, or this prediction enrages your console war senses, consider this: this is exactly how game development has worked across generations, while being an easier transition than console gamers are used to thanks to full BC. So it's a WIN. Also, this is exactly what will happen on Sony's team when the PS5 is introduced. Also, this is exactly how things work on PC - hardware ages. Tough. Get over it. At some point, the newest AAA games "technically" are software compatible with very old PC hardware, but FC has effectively been cut off because the old hardware can't run it at tolerable levels. And once the DX evolves enough, then FC officially dies. That's all that I'm describing here for Scorpio (and whatever Sony runs down its pipeline). It's nothing new, and basically has to be the way things play out unless software tech is intentionally stalled for 5 years in order to keep the base X1 (and PS4) fanbase from needing to upgrade (which MS and Sony secretly don't want)

That's also a great point.

For one of the few exceptions to influences, I believe MS's moves on this will influence Sony to make changes for the better based on how they (hopefully) will approach handling Scorpios utilization of power for Devs.

It's really frustration to see Sony limit Pros advantage in hardware...but it is UNDERSTANDABLE! Remember what I said Sonys *end game* is with PS4 Pro..To extend and maximize the success of the PS4!!!

With this in mind, once again we see the reasoning why Sony doesn't care about pushing Pro's advantages too far ahead of PS4 even if it's capable (keep it all in the same gen); which as I said is the exact opposite of what MS should be pressing for.

Awww. Cashangry is angry. Better go take a nap.

What you said is very very realistic especially with how willing MS is to change stances based on the current situations.

I also understand they are trying to go with the Sony (current owners won't be left behind) friendly route to not cause a shit storm of backlash from the media and fans alike because they still remember the sting of E3 2013 and think if Sony is doing it it's "SAFE"...but I think that is self destruction for the end goal of a device like Scorpio.

It's not that MS wont change, I fully believe they will...it's that they're not coming out the gate and making that bold proclamation at launch they will. If devs and fans know at LAUNCH that this thing is, not only going to be able to play all xbone games, but also have bleeding edge exclusives that no other system save for a high end could play...how much more impact do you think Scorpios entrance would have?

It would not only effect gamers but also and most importantly the developers. It's a big point and as I said this all falls back to MS trying to follow in Sony's foot steps seeking to extend the gen and not declare the start of their own at launch.

You are really deluded if you think traditional console gaming exists anymore. The mere fact we are seeing incremental hardware upgrades alone proves that console gaming as we once knew it is dead. MS saw this coming and moved towards providing a cross-platform gaming service rather than a dedicated gaming hardware brand.

And with the Xbox Scorpio being 100% backwards compatible with Xbox One and Xbox 360 games, on top of offering true 4K support and a 4K Blu-ray player, Sony is going to be playing catch up for the next few years.

@xantufrog: That is probably close to what will happen I think... There's no way that the current model will continue to get 100% of the new games for more than a few years.

Another I love MS thread, gotta love the obsessive love Sony fan boys have for anything Xbox. How cute.

LOL shit thread.

Scorpio fear is real.

With UWP MS can continue to develop for both consoles since its basically like changing the settings from medium to high.

They dont need 'pure exclusives' the console market and PC market can both exist and they actually know their fans often game on both.

@casharmy: Ahhh, self-aggrandizing. You appear to be labouring under the impression that your topic merits any kind of sound reasoning or intelligent rebuttal. It's hard to take fanboy drivel serious anymore.

@hrt_rulz01: yeah. And it's a realistic/normal timeframe for support to phase out anyway

What benefit does exclusives provide any gamer? Since when has being limited to a specific platform just to play them been good for any consumer? Opening up Xbox titles for the MS store broadens their market, they should have done it years ago.

@xantufrog: Yep. It'll give people enough time to make the upgrade and the price of Scorpio will come down in the mean time. I think it's the right approach.

lmao rekt

this kid trying to make decisions for one of the richest companies in the world, richer than $ony.

what a thread, LMAO

Reading these threads and the comments that follow frustrates me because its clear that people dont understand the relationship between hardware and software.........and how that relationship has evolved over the past decade.

Apple reinvigorated their business by figuring this out.............that is, they created a set of fetures they wanted in a phone/laptop and then created the hardware that could run it. Before that, companies created hardware (phones and computers) and chose the software to run on it..........creating compatibility issues and slow devices.

MS has they ability to do this same thing with Scorpio. Just because in the past (or in the case with Pro) creating games for a host of platforms means catering the the lowest common denominator, does not mean this has to be the rule......and hasnt been for PC for years. This is why we have DirectX

If you build a platform to build games on then you eliminate BC issues.

Doesnt mean you have to build a 360 game then upgrade to Scorpio.

UWP offers MS the ability to scale to each platform with very little effort on the devs part.

This "holding back" BS is nonsense and shows the ignorance of this board.

Games dont HAVE to be created the way they have been in the past.

IF devs use UWP, their games will be compatible on all MS platforms anyway, and MS has made it a breeze to do with great tools.

I have to admit, OP, I'm struggling to see how Microsoft's approach is so different than Sony's (except that Scorpio is, obviously, going to be more powerful than PS4 Pro).

Even with the relatively large jump in specs, I think it's worth pointing out that this is still an iterative improvement. I don't think game consoles will ever see the massive leaps that they had seen in previous generations (like moving from 2D sprite-based graphics to polygon-based graphics as an example).

You may see holding onto Xbox One compatibility as a limitation, but I think you radically trivialise the cost and risk involved with "starting a new generation" from scratch. It sounds easy, but it's not. Console manufacturers have fantasised for years about the idea of having iterative cycles that remove the idea of a generational change completely.

In some respects, I think Microsoft can actually do more to entice developers with this model rather than starting an entirely new generation, for the simple reason that a developer can release a "next gen" game and still have a massive pre-established install base to work with. Yes, there's extra effort on the part of the developer, but there are also massive advantages to having that in-built install base already.

Also, as I often say, I think it depends very much on the new console's architecture and developer tools - how easy is it going to be to work across the two platforms? Bear in mind that developers of PS4 games are already patching their releases to incorporate things like native 4K (and even 4K super-sampling in some cases). There's an economy in this which could be applied to Scorpio and Xbox One as well, despite the fact that there's a slightly larger hardware performance gap than there is with PS4 and PS4 Pro.

So, yeah, I must have missed something, because I'm not entirely sure how different Microsoft's approach really is from what Sony is doing.

Good thing that MS doesn't listen to Sony fanboys.

This makes sense if the power difference between the X1 and scropio will be that great. Although, I'm not a PC gamer but can't older PC still run newer more advance games just at a lower res and frames? Why couldn't the same happen with the Xbox Scropio/X1 where 3 years from now games can still run on both but the games have an option where if you have a Scropio you get the beefed up setting but it you don't, you'll just get the standard settings.