If Natal succeeds, it could be revolutionary.

I know everyone on here likes to hate on Natal for being a pointless gimmick, but IMO if it succeeds it could change much more than the world of gaming.

As the 360/PS3/Wii emerge more into the mainstream, the simple notion of a handsfree control could be implemented into other electronics on the popular market, just like the Wii's success has led to motion control adoption by other systems this gen.

I'm not saying it should be the next step in gaming, I'd prefer to mash away at a controller, but it definitely opens the way for bigger implementation overall - whether through home computing (on a much more popular scale), as businesses will see the potential profits.

This is all if it succeeds, though - which we don't know yet. Just my opinion, I believe MS have made a huge gamble but one that could definitely pay off, considering it's more innovative than PS Move or additional wii add-ons.

if a particular group of people think 3D inevitable.

I won't disagree with this post.

I'm still not buying anything related to these things though. I have a real dog, that plays fetch and such. etc. etc.

if Natal has any lag then no it will Fail .

umm.. it will be limited the same why eyetoy was

except for that fact that it can sense 3d movement it will provide more or less the same games

umm.. it will be limited the same why eyetoy was

except for that fact that it can sense 3d movement it will provide more or less the same games

xxgunslingerxx

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

Eyetoy wasnt revolutionary so Natal thing will not be revolutionary as well

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

KristoffBrujah

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

KristoffBrujah

Man will also never travel from Europe to North America by boat, because they will fall off the edge of the earth.

Man will also never fly... or travel to outer space...

IBM once predicted that there wouldonly be aworld wide need of approx. 4 or 5 computers and thats all.

I always find it hilarious when someone spouts crap about the future.

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

moistsandwich

Man will also never travel from Europe to North America by boat, because they will fall off the edge of the earth.

Man will also never fly... or travel to outer space...

IBM once predicted that there wouldonly be aworld wide need of approx. 4 or 5 computers and thats all.

I always find it hilarious when someone spouts crap about the future.

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

moistsandwich

Man will also never travel from Europe to North America by boat, because they will fall off the edge of the earth.

Man will also never fly... or travel to outer space...

IBM once predicted that there wouldonly be aworld wide need of approx. 4 or 5 computers and thats all.

I always find it hilarious when someone spouts crap about the future.

Those are evolutions, in other words, advancements. There is absolutely no proof that waggling around like an idiot is superior to using a controller, or mouse + keyboard.

You haven't proven that motion controls is an evolution. Now, direct link with my brain? That's an evolution. Not MC. No matter how advanced motion controls get, a lot of people want to sit down and relax while playing games, not move around. Comparing it to Magellan or microprocessors is a failed analogy.

alot of major devs have liked natal.... we will soon see what they came up with this year the day before E3. if this succeeds. it could be a gen ender for ps3 and wii. thats how big it could be imo

[QUOTE="moistsandwich"]

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

KristoffBrujah

Man will also never travel from Europe to North America by boat, because they will fall off the edge of the earth.

Man will also never fly... or travel to outer space...

IBM once predicted that there wouldonly be aworld wide need of approx. 4 or 5 computers and thats all.

I always find it hilarious when someone spouts crap about the future.

Those are evolutions, in other words, advancements. There is absolutely no proof that waggling around like an idiot is superior to using a controller, or mouse + keyboard.

You haven't proven that motion controls is an evolution. Now, direct link with my brain? That's an evolution. Not MC. No matter how advanced motion controls get, a lot of people want to sit down and relax while playing games, not move around. Comparing it to Magellan or microprocessors is a failed analogy.

And you haven't proven that they're not. Lack of proof does not equal disproof.

And you haven't proven that they're not. Lack of proof does not equal disproof.

sam_nintendo

Yes, I did. I just said that no matter how advanced motion controls get, some people WILL NOT WANT TO MOVE ABOUT TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. Some just want to sit there and veg. This is not physically possible with motion controls, and hence not an evolution. An evolution is something clearly superior (hence the root word "evolve"), and as I have proven MC is not an evolution.

IMO the next evolution will be a sensory link between the brain/eyes and game system. It's already being done at research universities.

I don't think it will take off like the Wii did but I think it will be alot more successful than the Move.

[QUOTE="sam_nintendo"]

And you haven't proven that they're not. Lack of proof does not equal disproof.

KristoffBrujah

Yes, I did. I just said that no matter how advanced motion controls get, some people WILL NOT WANT TO MOVE ABOUT TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. Some just want to sit there and veg. This is not physically possible with motion controls, and hence not an evolution. An evolution is something clearly superior (hence the root word "evolve"), and as I have proven MC is not an evolution.

IMO the next evolution will be a sensory link between the brain/eyes and game system. It's already being done at research universities.

[QUOTE="sam_nintendo"]

And you haven't proven that they're not. Lack of proof does not equal disproof.

Yes, I did. I just said that no matter how advanced motion controls get, some people WILL NOT WANT TO MOVE ABOUT TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. Some just want to sit there and veg. This is not physically possible with motion controls, and hence not an evolution. An evolution is something clearly superior (hence the root word "evolve"), and as I have proven MC is not an evolution.

IMO the next evolution will be a sensory link between the brain/eyes and game system. It's already being done at research universities.

Some people preferred horses to automobiles.sam_nintendo

Automobiles are clearly superior for transport on roads. They're faster, cheaper, and easily maintained. That's an evolution because it is clearly superior.

There is a huge segment of the population that has absolutely 0 interest in moving around. It's not more efficient than mouse or controller, and it serves no purpose for many genres of games. Imagine Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, or Heavy Rain with motion controls-- what would the controls even do? They would have no purpose except to be a severe burden on the gamer by being highly inefficient.

No, as I've just showed, motion controls are not (and never will be) an evolution.

what r you guys talking about. you can sit down and veg with both wii and ps move and get same results if you stood up and did the real life act. all you gotta do is act like you shaking a can of yoohoo every once in a while as you playmonson21502

That's not vegging-- that's frantically waving my arms around and hoping that the character on screen does what I want. With Natal, I have to move my arms/body around.

Like I just showed, some entire franchises gain nothing but disastrously bad gameplay with motion controls. Tell me, what does motion controls add to Final Fantasy? What would Natal contribute to Assassin's Creed? Dragon Age? Nothing, except to make a fun game unplayable.

not as revolutionary as what nintendo is currently developing: thought controlled gaming.

[QUOTE="sam_nintendo"]

Some people preferred horses to automobiles.KristoffBrujah

Automobiles are clearly superior for transport on roads. They're faster, cheaper, and easily maintained. That's an evolution because it is clearly superior.

There is a huge segment of the population that has absolutely 0 interest in moving around. It's not more efficient than mouse or controller, and it serves no purpose for many genres of games. Imagine Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, or Heavy Rain with motion controls-- what would the controls even do? They would have no purpose except to be a severe burden on the gamer by being highly inefficient.

No, as I've just showed, motion controls are not (and never will be) an evolution.

[QUOTE="sam_nintendo"]

Some people preferred horses to automobiles.

Automobiles are clearly superior for transport on roads. They're faster, cheaper, and easily maintained. That's an evolution because it is clearly superior.

There is a huge segment of the population that has absolutely 0 interest in moving around. It's not more efficient than mouse or controller, and it serves no purpose for many genres of games. Imagine Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, or Heavy Rain with motion controls-- what would the controls even do? They would have no purpose except to be a severe burden on the gamer by being highly inefficient.

No, as I've just showed, motion controls are not (and never will be) an evolution.

oh do you mean the eyetoy Extreme edition? oh yeah it will change everything:roll:

Did you know some people thought the automobile would just be a fad? They thought the horse was here to stay. And in the beginning the automobile was none of the things you said.sam_nintendo

That has absolutely nothing to do with video games. Horses did not advance. Controllers are still advancing-- go to the store and look up the new keyboards and mouses for MMO's. Automobiles demonstrated their superiority through continued design improvements. Motion controls cannot advance to the point where I don't have to wave my arms about-- that's something that many don't want to do. It can't evolve to make itself useful in certain game series and genres. World of Warcraft is literally impossible with motion controls-- how are you going to hotkey 35 different spells to an arm or leg motion?

No, the only thing MC proved this gen is that they are frequenlty tacked-on and useless in improving gameplay. As many have noted, in most Wii games they are unnecessary, and not an improvement over controllers.

no way you can say* never will be*. the world will still be here long after this current gen players are either dead or not gaming anymore. i think natal will have the best chance to change the way we game in the future. its a step above what the wii did. sony chose to step to the same level with move.monson21502

I can say "never will be." Some games are literally impossible with just motion controls, as I've shown. Try to play WoW with just hand/arm/leg motions. It's not possible because it never will be practical with motions.

[QUOTE="monson21502"]

what r you guys talking about. you can sit down and veg with both wii and ps move and get same results if you stood up and did the real life act. all you gotta do is act like you shaking a can of yoohoo every once in a while as you play

That's not vegging-- that's frantically waving my arms around and hoping that the character on screen does what I want. With Natal, I have to move my arms/body around.

Like I just showed, some entire franchises gain nothing but disastrously bad gameplay with motion controls. Tell me, what does motion controls add to Final Fantasy? What would Natal contribute to Assassin's Creed? Dragon Age? Nothing, except to make a fun game unplayable.

I just dont see how it can be compelling for hardcore games. Voice recognition for RPGs is the only thing I can think of.

[QUOTE="sam_nintendo"]Did you know some people thought the automobile would just be a fad? They thought the horse was here to stay. And in the beginning the automobile was none of the things you said.KristoffBrujah

That has absolutely nothing to do with video games. Horses did not advance. Controllers are still advancing-- go to the store and look up the new keyboards and mouses for MMO's. Automobiles demonstrated their superiority through continued design improvements. Motion controls cannot advance to the point where I don't have to wave my arms about-- that's something that many don't want to do. It can't evolve to make itself useful in certain game series and genres. World of Warcraft is literally impossible with motion controls-- how are you going to hotkey 35 different spells to an arm or leg motion?

No, the only thing MC proved this gen is that they are frequenlty tacked-on and useless in improving gameplay. As many have noted, in most Wii games they are unnecessary, and not an improvement over controllers.

your kidding right? ff13 i could just point at what moster i wanted to attack. then just call out the spell i wanted to use. block or dodge attacks. just say save game, call for mapsand menus at will. ac. go get geeked out and have natal scan your own image in the game. and you can be a real assassin. its pretty much endless what devs can do with natal. monson21502

See, this is what I'm talking about: you haven't given any thought to this whatsoever. There are like dozens of spells in Final Fantasy 13 to choose from-- on each playable character. How are you going to differentiate the different spells? Jerking motion for Curaga? Jumping jacks for Firaga? Is the player supposed to memorize hundreds of different motions for all the spells?

Think about that-- it is impossible. It only seems possible if you don't think very hard about it.

You're right, it has nothing to do with games. It has to do with people. It shows that people are often resistant to new technologies, dismissive of the change.sam_nintendo

That's not at all the case, and you know it. You know there's no such thing as an efficient motion control for some games, like FF or WoW. You know it, and yet you continue to argue with this nonsensical Luddite argument, as if I'm resisting change.

I'm pointing out its shortcomings, not resisting change. It's not possible with some very complicated games. Point and shoot? Sure, because that's not complicated. FF13? Dragon Age? World of Warcraft? Impractical and ridiculous. Just imagine trying to cast 100 different spells with motions. Absurd!

[QUOTE="sam_nintendo"]You're right, it has nothing to do with games. It has to do with people. It shows that people are often resistant to new technologies, dismissive of the change.KristoffBrujah

That's not at all the case, and you know it. You know there's no such thing as an efficient motion control for some games, like FF or WoW. You know it, and yet you continue to argue with this nonsensical Luddite argument, as if I'm resisting change.

I'm pointing out its shortcomings, not resisting change. It's not possible with some very complicated games. Point and shoot? Sure, because that's not complicated. FF13? Dragon Age? World of Warcraft? Impractical and ridiculous.

There hasn't been anything yet. I will agree, as of right now there is no practical control scheme. But to say there will never be one is foolhardy.sam_nintendo

I say "never" because I cannot imagine an efficient controls scheme for directing 3,000 troops in Napoleon: Total War. It just isn't conceivable.

They said there'd be floating cars by now, too. But there's not, and it's because from an energy standpoint it's totally impracticle and highly inefficient. Segway Scooters was supposed to replace walking, but that never happened either.

[QUOTE="monson21502"]your kidding right? ff13 i could just point at what moster i wanted to attack. then just call out the spell i wanted to use. block or dodge attacks. just say save game, call for mapsand menus at will. ac. go get geeked out and have natal scan your own image in the game. and you can be a real assassin. its pretty much endless what devs can do with natal. KristoffBrujah

See, this is what I'm talking about: you haven't given any thought to this whatsoever. There are like dozens of spells in Final Fantasy 13 to choose from-- on each playable character. How are you going to differentiate the different spells? Jerking motion for Curaga? Jumping jacks for Firaga? Is the player supposed to memorize hundreds of different motions for all the spells?

Think about that-- it is impossible. It only seems possible if you don't think very hard about it.

In my reality of things and educated opinion, the Natal will be a success without an ounce of doubt. It is revolutionary and will give the almighty Xbox 360 a second wind no other console this gaming generation can ever achieve. Remember the movie the Matrix and how Morpheus truly believe Neo is the one, will the Natal is the one, the one motion control that will reload and revolutionize Microsoft in the success of Zion. I can not wait.reanimatedchamp

[QUOTE="reanimatedchamp"]In my reality of things and educated opinion, the Natal will be a success without an ounce of doubt. It is revolutionary and will give the almighty Xbox 360 a second wind no other console this gaming generation can ever achieve. Remember the movie the Matrix and how Morpheus truly believe Neo is the one, will the Natal is the one, the one motion control that will reload and revolutionize Microsoft in the success of Zion. I can not wait.alextherussian

the way i see it, Natal could be revolutionary in everything except in gaming.

[QUOTE="sam_nintendo"]There hasn't been anything yet. I will agree, as of right now there is no practical control scheme. But to say there will never be one is foolhardy.KristoffBrujah

I say "never" because I cannot imagine an efficient controls scheme for directing 3,000 troops in Napoleon: Total War. It just isn't conceivable.

They said there'd be floating cars by now, too. But there's not, and it's because from an energy standpoint it's totally impracticle and highly inefficient. Segway Scooters was supposed to replace walking, but that never happened either.

I wouldn't say its a pointless gimmick, I'd say it has a LOT to provetomarlyn

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

KristoffBrujah

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

Ravensmash

I've brought these points up before.

He says " people will not abandon their controls/keyboards/mice to gyrate in front of a tv".- . sounds like insecurity.

And so what if peoplelook silly having fun playing games?

Do Hardcore people want a medal or something for sitting on a couch or infront of a monitor with a glum look on their face because it can look just as silly-ever notice on TV when they show some people playing games? it's like derrr...LOL.

The world knows American's have an obesity problem with 2/3 overwieght and a 3rd obese, and the negative attitudes towards pro active activity is telling.

Gaming as like I have said before is about fun, not defined by or limited to just controls- - case in note Wii's success, it simply doesn't appeal to the "Hardcore" or "traditional" "Gaming" fanboys here, yet the motion controls have made it more accessable to those not familiar or used to control pads/keyboards/mice andactually enjoy using a motion control more then control pads or keyboards or prefer it instead.

The same heated debates was/is over the control pad vs Keyboard and Mice.

A controller has very limited buttons compared to a keyboard and mice and lacks the precison, but then how come control pads are so popular when the keyboard and mice is supposedly vastly superior?

Let's not even get started on touch screen gaming with Ipod, but for some magical reason in the real world out side of Fairy land and Zue's butt that is System War's logic. people keep buying games on the Iphone/Ipod?? What's wrong with these people can't they see that they can only enjoy gaming if they are hardcore, and use a controller like on the PSP or carry a keyboard and mice in their pockets when ever they go travelling??:roll:

Yet it is not an evolution but an alternative control method of interaction which many here fail to see the same in motion technology, voice recognition, touch screen etc..

I take it many people here where not inspired by the scenes in Gamer and Minority report- Heck even Star Treck that has feature Touch screen computers with an infinate changing button configuration on screen.

all naysayers can think of is that it is a threat to their traditional way of playing games.

As the years have gone by and in the future there will be new technologies and new ways of doing things.

joysticks with one button to play pong

Keyboards and mice

control pads

Touch screen has been around for years before Ipod- and it can be implemented across bounderies from checkout machines, to home control automation, car dashboard interfaces, PCs and smart pones and PDAs and who knows what.

Motion control (or Minority report/Project Natal st*le) is not just limited to interacting with games but also has more potential crossing the boundaries with TVs, conferences and presentations, Training, communications.

Revolutionary in that not having a physical controller or device in hand to control something on screen. More people can pay games with N.U.I. (Natural user interface) with intuitive gestures/ couple with voice recognition can be a game changer.

I always thought people here would be more attuned and accepting of technology as part of a gaming culture then the mainstream population, butthe mentatlity is more stuck in the stone age!

Natal will succeed. There is just too much dev support for good things not to come of it. The same can't be said of the eye toy. You guys thinking Natal will fail because the Eyetoy did are have the same kind of thinking that of those who said "the internet is just a fad". Things evolve. lhughey

my money is on Natal(well literally too because I will get itfor both the Xbox360, Windows 7and for my TV) being a success and Natal like motion technology in general.

It has more commitment behind it and Xbox360 team and Windows team were involed that's more confidence in consumers eyes.

A big launch and if MS is big on it like they have mentioned before they will price it aggressively with marketing and steady games support and launch as bundels and options.

Across Windows, Xbox360 consoles, and TVs it has a bigger chance of hitting other segments of the market.

Natal and the PS Move will both be great. But they are not revolutionary. Nintendo did it first and have games to back it up for this year.

[QUOTE="moistsandwich"]

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

Motion controls never have and never will be an evolution of gaming. People will not abandon their controllers, keyboards and mice so they can gyrate in front of their TV's.

Ravensmash

Man will also never travel from Europe to North America by boat, because they will fall off the edge of the earth.

Man will also never fly... or travel to outer space...

IBM once predicted that there wouldonly be aworld wide need of approx. 4 or 5 computers and thats all.

I always find it hilarious when someone spouts crap about the future.

There was a scene in the moive "Back to the future 2"

where the main character Marty enters a retro 80s store in the future where he plays a game of Nintendo's duck hunt with a gun.

The kids give him so much crap "Eeww.. ayou have to use your hands or play with a contoller.LOL" something like that I can't remember