If PC gaming dies=ATI&Nvidia Die=consoles die

Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?True_Gamer_

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

[QUOTE="THE_G_BEAR"]sure they will the developers of those chips will just work primarily for consoles instead of pc's duh there in it to make money. if you cant sell cupcakes sell muffins fool.....Grive

Hmm selling a $600 GPU every 6 months vs selling $150 GPU every 5 years

I cant decide...which one is more profitable in your opinion?

When the $150 GPU market is 150+ million every five years...

Do we have any actual sales data on high-end cards? 

I know Nvidia sells 100+million GPUs every year(and with bigger profit per unit than they get on console gpus) 

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?saspool

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

No, with profits from console gpus alone those compnies wouldn't be able to afford the real good RD 

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Danm_999"]

The topic is superflous.

The only way PC gaming will dissapear is if PCs dissapear. That is not going to happen in our modern society.

As long as there are PCs, there will be games on them. As long as there are games, people will try and make money from them. 

AdrianWerner

Example: For all we know the next blackberry is going to be able to do everything modern PC's can do except for run games and would retail for $600, but would include a POS integrated graphics card. It would come with a "base" that would include a monitor, and wireless keyboard and mouse. That alone would all but kill PC gaming. Will that happen? Probably not but for all we know some guy is about to invent some crazy new way of doing things.

Lol...no...companies sell 200mln PCs each year, how many units blackberry shifts? A petite ammount compaed to that 

I doubt people would switch to cell phones ...really :) Yes..to say say PC gaming could never die is a rediculous statement, but to say consoles could never die would be even more ridiculus one 

And pc devs won't jump to consoles, most of them can't and never will. There's no place for small/medium independent devs in console gaming, while in PCgaming those devs form majority of pc dev community 

[QUOTE="saspool"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?AdrianWerner

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

No, with profits from console gpus alone those compnies wouldn't be able to afford the real good RD 

Again I'm going to explain, gaming is not the only field which requires graphic cards. Also in a situation such as that companies adopt new business models which deal with the R&D.

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?saspool

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

150mil x $30 profit per GPU (average because it depreciates)= $4500mil

50mil x $200 profit per GPU (average for each new GPU every 6 months)= $10000mil

[QUOTE="saspool"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?True_Gamer_

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

150mil x $30 profit per GPU (average because it depreciates)= $4500mil

50mil x $200 profit per GPU (average for each new GPU every 6 months)= $10000mil

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Danm_999"]

The topic is superflous.

The only way PC gaming will dissapear is if PCs dissapear. That is not going to happen in our modern society.

As long as there are PCs, there will be games on them. As long as there are games, people will try and make money from them. 

pundog

Example: For all we know the next blackberry is going to be able to do everything modern PC's can do except for run games and would retail for $600, but would include a POS integrated graphics card. It would come with a "base" that would include a monitor, and wireless keyboard and mouse. That alone would all but kill PC gaming. Will that happen? Probably not but for all we know some guy is about to invent some crazy new way of doing things.

Lol...no...companies sell 200mln PCs each year, how many units blackberry shifts? A petite ammount compaed to that 

I doubt people would switch to cell phones ...really :) Yes..to say say PC gaming could never die is a rediculous statement, but to say consoles could never die would be even more ridiculus one 

And pc devs won't jump to consoles, most of them can't and never will. There's no place for small/medium independent devs in console gaming, while in PCgaming those devs form majority of pc dev community 

that's what I'm saying. Almost nobody would switch. You can already buy cheaper PC than 600$. Do you think people would just give up on allt their apps, of all the work they put to learn how to use it, of all the compatibility just for the sake of smaller box? Really 

[QUOTE="saspool"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?True_Gamer_

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

150mil x $30 profit per GPU (average because it depreciates)= $4500mil

50mil x $200 profit per GPU (average for each new GPU every 6 months)= $10000mil

Even if we assume those numbers mean anything, it would only mean less profit for the poor old Nvidia and ATI. It is also important to note that when there is no longer such a market for high end graphic cards which make their way to the market on regular intervals the R&D costs respectively lower as there will be less need for variety. The ratio will still remain constant.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="saspool"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?saspool

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

No, with profits from console gpus alone those compnies wouldn't be able to afford the real good RD 

Again I'm going to explain, gaming is not the only field which requires graphic cards. Also in a situation such as that companies adopt new business models which deal with the R&D.

I'm not saying they wouldn't do RD, just that it would have to be scaled down like hell for them to remain profitable. 

Without PCgaming those companies wouldn't be able to afford having anywhere near as extensive RD as they do now 

[QUOTE="saspool"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="saspool"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?AdrianWerner

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

No, with profits from console gpus alone those compnies wouldn't be able to afford the real good RD 

Again I'm going to explain, gaming is not the only field which requires graphic cards. Also in a situation such as that companies adopt new business models which deal with the R&D.

I'm not saying they wouldn't do RD, just that it would have to be scaled down like hell for them to remain profitable. 

Without PCgaming those companies wouldn't be able to afford having anywhere near as extensive RD as they do now 

Refer to my post previous to yours.

that's what I'm saying. Almost nobody would switch. You can already buy cheaper PC than 600$. Do you think people would just give up on allt their apps, of all the work they put to learn how to use it, of all the compatibility just for the sake of smaller box? Really AdrianWerner

Windows Vista to the rescue? Pretty much made a videocard standard in PCs..

So people would be buying them for stuff other then games.

[QUOTE="THE_G_BEAR"]sure they will the developers of those chips will just work primarily for consoles instead of pc's duh there in it to make money. if you cant sell cupcakes sell muffins fool.....True_Gamer_

Hmm selling a $600 GPU every 6 months vs selling $150 GPU every 5 years

I cant decide...which one is more profitable in your opinion? 

wow.... really stupid thread first off.

2nd, its not a matter of $600 Vs. $150  its a matter of supply and demand, lets say for what ever reason PC gaming did "die" then everyone that enjoyed games would end up going over to consoles anyhow and would do nothing but increase the demand for a card from manufactures such as ATI or NVIDIA.  Plain and simply there will always be demand for there products reguardless if " PC GAMING " is here or not.  

And do you really think that with all the extra money that these companys have like MS, Nintendo and Sony have, that they would not be capable of creating there own GPU ?  Sure the consoles would prolly cost more money but reguardless consoles will never die, just because PC's crapped out.

This topic seems more like flame bait then a actual discussion :roll: its just to stupid to be serious.

some gigantic percentage of video card sales are the mid/low end... $50-150 or so. the $600 cards make up maybe 1% of ATi/nV's sales, speaking rectally. that said, there's a couple hundred million PC's sold every year. about half of them have integrated graphics, leaving 100 million + every year that have some form of video card inside. :)Makari

Speaking rectally? Like out of your anus? 

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]that's what I'm saying. Almost nobody would switch. You can already buy cheaper PC than 600$. Do you think people would just give up on allt their apps, of all the work they put to learn how to use it, of all the compatibility just for the sake of smaller box? Really pundog

nope.they wouldn't for the same reasons they don't pick Linux despite being free and here blackberry wouldn;t even have a price advantage. Plus really... palmtops already can do what you describe and I dont see them overtaking PCs. So no...I really think people wouldn't bother at all. 

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="saspool"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Do you seriously believe that the $150 from Xenos can fuel RD of insane gaming GPUs? The same way as $400-$600 cards do?pundog

Yes it will when that market is no longer 40-50 million but rather 140 million.

150mil x $30 profit per GPU (average because it depreciates)= $4500mil

50mil x $200 profit per GPU (average for each new GPU every 6 months)= $10000mil

The problem is that they will have to focus on making other product that is not related to gaming graph at all. You may even see only one of those two companies left able to develop a GPU for console. Maybe all the real graph are done from the cpu then the gpu.

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]that's what I'm saying. Almost nobody would switch. You can already buy cheaper PC than 600$. Do you think people would just give up on allt their apps, of all the work they put to learn how to use it, of all the compatibility just for the sake of smaller box? Really AdrianWerner

nope.they wouldn't for the same reasons they don't pick Linux despite being free and here blackberry wouldn;t even have a price advantage. Plus really... palmtops already can do what you describe and I dont see them overtaking PCs. So no...I really think people wouldn't bother at all. 

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]that's what I'm saying. Almost nobody would switch. You can already buy cheaper PC than 600$. Do you think people would just give up on allt their apps, of all the work they put to learn how to use it, of all the compatibility just for the sake of smaller box? Really pundog

nope.they wouldn't for the same reasons they don't pick Linux despite being free and here blackberry wouldn;t even have a price advantage. Plus really... palmtops already can do what you describe and I dont see them overtaking PCs. So no...I really think people wouldn't bother at all.

And those two problems with Linux don't affect this ephemeral product because...?

One of the reasons the Microsoft/IBM partnership has managed to stay ahead of the game for so long is because they both advertise and has marketing connections far more than anyone else, as well as their compatibility lock out on all competition.

Now, obviously the regular motor car will be obsolete when the flying motor car comes onto the scene. But seeing that hasn't happened, just like this mini PC idea, there's not much point saying it'll happen yet.

And if it does come, why wouldn't people game on it? 

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]that's what I'm saying. Almost nobody would switch. You can already buy cheaper PC than 600$. Do you think people would just give up on allt their apps, of all the work they put to learn how to use it, of all the compatibility just for the sake of smaller box? Really Danm_999

nope.they wouldn't for the same reasons they don't pick Linux despite being free and here blackberry wouldn;t even have a price advantage. Plus really... palmtops already can do what you describe and I dont see them overtaking PCs. So no...I really think people wouldn't bother at all.

And those two problems with Linux don't affect this ephemeral product because...?

One of the reasons the Microsoft/IBM partnership has managed to stay ahead of the game for so long is because they both advertise and has marketing connections far more than anyone else, as well as their compatibility lock out on all competition.

Now, obviously the regular motor car will be obsolete when the flying motor car comes onto the scene. But seeing that hasn't happened, just like this mini PC idea, there's not much point saying it'll happen yet.

And if it does come, why wouldn't people game on it? 

My point with this whole super-blackberry is that PC gaming can die. We never know what breakthrough is around the corner and who knows, maybe RIM is working on this very product right now. Is it realistic that this product is going to be out in the next year or so? Absolutely not. But 5 or 10 years from now for all we know it will be available.

 My point about it not being able to play games was that it would probably have some POS integrated graphics to save space, so it wouldn't be able to run anything graphics intensive. If the average laptop today has integrated graphics then something like my super-blackberry idea would definitely have them.

Problem with Linux is a)very few people know about it and b) even fewer actually are willing to use it and worry about programs and compatibility.pundog

You do know such blueberry PC-like device would have exacly the same problems?

I still don't think you understand what I'm talking about, the idea is basically a blackberry that can do everything a modern laptop can do. We are literally talking about a pocket PC, with Windows Vista and everything. If it had a large enough HDD you wouldn't even need to worry about owning an ipod because the thing would have iTunes running on it. It would literally combine your cell phone and PC into one unit, and when you include the base I talked about for it (basically a monitor, keyboard and mouse) and now you get a blackberry that does everything as well as a standard desktop can with the added functionality of being portable and pocket sized. No blackberry or palmpilot can do what I'm talking about nearly as well as the product I've described.

pundog

WHat you're talking about it UMPC. And they flop. And since you would have separate monitor/keyboard/mouse it would loose in portability with laptop. Plus what you are describing is PC, just packaged diffrently. I see no reason why PC devs wouldn;t make games for it. You have to understand : switching isn't a choice for devs. Most of them simply can't switch to consoles, without pcgaming (or other alternative) they would simply die. 

to sum up: what you describe is simply a small change of packaging of computers and I don't see why it would kill pcgaming. If such petite pc would be powerful enough to handle Vista it could handle most pc games.

 The Blackberry is much better known than linux, the modern world literally runs on Blackberrys. Seriously. Its been argued that the US government could not function if RIM were to cut service to the blackberry (something that could have happened because of a lawsuit RIM was involved in).

My point with this whole super-blackberry is that PC gaming can die. We never know what breakthrough is around the corner and who knows, maybe RIM is working on this very product right now. Is it realistic that this product is going to be out in the next year or so? Absolutely not. But 5 or 10 years from now for all we know it will be available.pundog

Blackberry isn't well known worldwide, much less than Linux, maybe in US people know about it, but I live in europe and this thread is the first time I've heard about it . But yes...every tech/platform can die, but this could also happen to consoles. consoles could die and honestly it's much more likely than your blackberry scenario.  It would be cool, all console devs would switch to PCgaming, it would be good for everyone.

The Blackberry is much better known than linux,pundog

Firstly, no. According to RIM, there are only about 8 million Blackberry users. Meanwhile, Linux is estimated to have around  3-5% of the 2007 OS market share. That's a lot more than 8 million.

the modern world literally runs on Blackberrys.pundog

Lol. This comment is absurd.

Seriously. Its been argued that the US government could not function if RIM were to cut service to the blackberry (something that could have happened because of a lawsuit RIM was involved in).pundog

Argued by whom? How could a dependancy on an 8 million person service cripple the US government? Also, since when does the US government = the modern world. 

My point with this whole super-blackberry is that PC gaming can die. We never know what breakthrough is around the corner and who knows, maybe RIM is working on this very product right now. Is it realistic that this product is going to be out in the next year or so? Absolutely not. But 5 or 10 years from now for all we know it will be available.pundog

Your point is that PC gaming will die because these mini PCs will make the PC obsolete. You are wrong because either A) they won't be able to handle games as you say, and thus will not make PCs 100% obsolete or B) They will be able to handle full PC functionality and PC gaming will simple switch to those systems. 

My point about it not being able to play games was that it would probably have some POS integrated graphics to save space, so it wouldn't be able to run anything graphics intensive. If the average laptop today has integrated graphics then something like my super-blackberry idea would definitely have them.pundog

But then of course it would not have full PC functionality, since GPUs are also required for editing, Photoshop and visual designs. They would thus still be proliferate, and so would PC gaming. Office computers don't need GPUs necessarily, but many do for multimedia.

sure they will the developers of those chips will just work primarily for consoles instead of pc's duh there in it to make money. if you cant sell pancakes sell waffles fool.....THE_G_BEAR

fixed and... LOL :D 

90% of GPUs are sold to gamers...Those R600 and G70 that are in the 360 and PS3 are the result of development that was fuelled by PC gaming ethusiasts and PC gamers in general...

The professional GPUs like Quadro etc are pathetic at gaming and dont push the development and progress of hardware since they are sold in bulk to corporations...

So console fanboys beware before wishing the death of PC gaming cause there wont be a R900 G100 to make Xbox3 or PS4...

True_Gamer_

Don't ATI and Nvidia make money off from every PS3 and X-box 360 too? 

Pc gaming will never die. Why? Because no single company flat out owns gaming. If Microsoft were to die. the Xbox may die, but Pc gaming would continue on other OS's. If Nvidida were to die then graphics cards would continue to come out. Etc etc etc.

Pc gaming may get crippled but it will never cease to exist.

Anyways yeah, I think everyone knows that a console is essentially a living room gaming Pc that is made for gaming and gaming alone and without pcs they would of never became a reality.

90% of GPUs are sold to gamers...Those R600 and G70 that are in the 360 and PS3 are the result of development that was fuelled by PC gaming ethusiasts and PC gamers in general...

The professional GPUs like Quadro etc are pathetic at gaming and dont push the development and progress of hardware since they are sold in bulk to corporations...

So console fanboys beware before wishing the death of PC gaming cause there wont be a R900 G100 to make Xbox3 or PS4... 

True_Gamer_

they wont die- they'll just end up making GPUs for games consoles & low end stuff for laptops & advanced mobile phones PDAs etc & for whats left of the PC gaming industry they'll probably only be able to afford to introduce a new range every 12months instead of 6months.

So tell me, did console also rely on computer chips in the days of snes-ps1? JPOBS

[QUOTE="Makari"]some gigantic percentage of video card sales are the mid/low end... $50-150 or so. the $600 cards make up maybe 1% of ATi/nV's sales, speaking rectally. that said, there's a couple hundred million PC's sold every year. about half of them have integrated graphics, leaving 100 million + every year that have some form of video card inside. :)bloodychimp

Speaking rectally? Like out of your anus?