If PC piracy is defeated: Why DOESNT EVERY SINGLE publisher flock to DENUVO?

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GhoX

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#51 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts

I don't know why nobody is pointing out the giant elephant in the room here. Metal Gear Solid V, one of the biggest titles of the year and is certainly cared about by people (based on hype alone), uses Denuvo and is not cracked. Denuvo also seems to be one of the least intrusive DRMs in existence. It's less intrusive than lolSecuROM, less intrusive than always online, and even less intrusive than Steam by itself, which at least requires you to stay logged in in offline mode.

Further, even for all those games using Denuvo that were eventually cracked, Denuvo did exactly as it promised (and in most cases much more): "allow publishers to reap the benefits of stamping out all piracy attempts in the crucial first weeks of a title’s release." Denuvo is achieving what no other non-intrusive DRM has ever managed to achieve. There is objectively a financial gain from such a solid amount of protection. Consider also that every Denuvo crack does not reduce the time required for any subsequent Denuvo crack. It's not like SecuROM, where when the crackers figured out how to deal with one game, all the games using SecuROM would easily fall. The crackers are only able to keep up a front, and crack a Denuvo game every... few months or so, because there is only a handful of Denuvo titles on the market. If ALL the games on the market use Denuvo, it will overwhelm the crackers and rekt piracy on PC.

So why aren't all the devs using Denuvo already? From what I understand, every EA game uses Denuvo, even ones that clearly don't need it (i.e. MP-only games like Battlefront 3). All the other titles that use Denuvo, except Lords of the Fallen (which almost seems like a test subject for Denuvo), are from very large publishers. Although there is a fair amount of financial gain from Denuvo protection, it's possible that the cost of the Denuvo protection is so high that some companies find it not worthwhile or even unaffordable. What Denuvo does not have is a competent competitor capable of offering the same protection, so this may be resolved in time when new competitor(s) appear. And then? Perhaps Denuvo and its equivalents will become common place on PC even for indie games.

As for how all this will affect consoles, my guess is that the console manufacturers may adapt a software approach to anti-piracy. Right now consoles use a firmware approach, and whenever the firmware is cracked suddenly all the games on the platform become vulnerable. On the other hand, with something durable like Denuvo, one cracked game (after many months) does not affect the status of all the other games on the platform, making the platform overall more resistant to piracy.

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glez13

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#52  Edited By glez13
Member since 2006 • 10314 Posts

What about Dragon Age Inquisition, Mad Max and MGSV? A quick Google shows that those games also use Denuvo and are playable by pirates.

Apparentl,y according to wikipedia, also Arkham Knight uses it, and that is also playable by pirates.

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GhoX

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#53  Edited By GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts

@glez13 said:

What about Dragon Age Inquisition, Mad Max and MGSV? A quick Google shows that those games also use Denuvo and are playable by pirates.

The first two took weeks/months to crack, which already generates immense value. Please don't try to deny the logic that a game which remains uncracked for a month is in a better position than a game that remains uncracked for an hour.

MGS V is very much not cracked. The pirates are simply claiming something like it's "90% cracked", which is kinda like saying a lock is 90% open, but you still can't get in.

Arkham Knight is also not cracked, but that one is in a more understandable situation since the game was taken down and then put back up.

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True_Gamer_

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#54  Edited By True_Gamer_
Member since 2006 • 6750 Posts

@GhoX said:

I don't know why nobody is pointing out the giant elephant in the room here. Metal Gear Solid V, one of the biggest titles of the year and is certainly cared about by people (based on hype alone), uses Denuvo and is not cracked. Denuvo also seems to be one of the least intrusive DRMs in existence. It's less intrusive than lolSecuROM, less intrusive than always online, and even less intrusive than Steam by itself, which at least requires you to stay logged in in offline mode.

Further, even for all those games using Denuvo that were eventually cracked, Denuvo did exactly as it promised (and in most cases much more): "allow publishers to reap the benefits of stamping out all piracy attempts in the crucial first weeks of a title’s release." Denuvo is achieving what no other non-intrusive DRM has ever managed to achieve. There is objectively a financial gain from such a solid amount of protection. Consider also that every Denuvo crack does not reduce the time required for any subsequent Denuvo crack. It's not like SecuROM, where when the crackers figured out how to deal with one game, all the games using SecuROM would easily fall. The crackers are only able to keep up a front, and crack a Denuvo game every... few months or so, because there is only a handful of Denuvo titles on the market. If ALL the games on the market use Denuvo, it will overwhelm the crackers and rekt piracy on PC.

So why aren't all the devs using Denuvo already? From what I understand, every EA game uses Denuvo, even ones that clearly don't need it (i.e. MP-only games like Battlefront 3). All the other titles that use Denuvo, except Lords of the Fallen (which almost seems like a test subject for Denuvo), are from very large publishers. Although there is a fair amount of financial gain from Denuvo protection, it's possible that the cost of the Denuvo protection is so high that some companies find it not worthwhile or even unaffordable. What Denuvo does not have is a competent competitor capable of offering the same protection, so this may be resolved in time when new competitor(s) appear. And then? Perhaps Denuvo and its equivalents will become common place on PC even for indie games.

As for how all this will affect consoles, my guess is that the console manufacturers may adapt a software approach to anti-piracy. Right now consoles use a firmware approach, and whenever the firmware is cracked suddenly all the games on the platform become vulnerable. On the other hand, with something durable like Denuvo, one cracked game (after many months) does not affect the status of all the other games on the platform, making the platform overall more resistant to piracy.

Finally SOMEONE got the point of this thread!!!

FIFA 15 crack is unstable as hell!!

16 is yet to be cracked and the torrent rates of past FIFAs prove that they aint that unpopular on PC....

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Ten_Pints

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#55 Ten_Pints
Member since 2014 • 4072 Posts

Mad Max never got a proper crack either, it is pretty much unplayable on AMD machines.

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360ru13r

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#56 360ru13r
Member since 2008 • 1856 Posts

PC gamers: Getting cracked games since 2002 and buying them at bottom floor prices since 2005. Way to make the PC market so viable yall.

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ConanTheStoner

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#57 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 23838 Posts

@lundy86_4 said:

TC has directed this topic into a condemnation of the used market, and still comes out as being wrong. Wow.

lol

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DaVillain

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#58 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 58693 Posts

@True_Gamer_ said:
@LegatoSkyheart said:
@True_Gamer_ said:
@superflyzero said:

Condoning it by claiming used games are the same practice. Such a bullshit argument.

If u sell used licenses

Except Gamestop and all other Used Shops have the rights to sell such "licenses". You do know how the Used market works right?

On physical goods not personal home use licenses....It is just being tolerated.

You completely miss his point. Game developers/publishers understand that used market is also good for the gaming economy despite they aren't getting a dime and they rather see used market then Piracy itself.

The key to defeating piracy is to not suck at your games. Valve has figured this out. Other developers need to learn that if they put more of their resources into not sucking than into blocking piracy, people will steal their games less. We don't mind paying for stuff. It just has to not suck.

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Elaisse

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#59  Edited By Elaisse
Member since 2012 • 694 Posts

@davillain-: is that why devs wanted the 8th gen to not allow a used market unless they paid a fee to the devs.

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Cloud_imperium

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#60 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15146 Posts

Piracy was never an issue. PC always had big multiplats and exclusives. Devs blamed piracy to hide their failures and exclusivity deals. DRMs are useless. Good games at the right time on the right platform with enough marketing always sell.

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Cloud_imperium

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#61  Edited By Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15146 Posts

@GhoX: MGS V was cracked the week it was released.

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Snugenz

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#63  Edited By Snugenz
Member since 2006 • 13388 Posts

@GhoX said:
@glez13 said:

What about Dragon Age Inquisition, Mad Max and MGSV? A quick Google shows that those games also use Denuvo and are playable by pirates.

The first two took weeks/months to crack, which already generates immense value. Please don't try to deny the logic that a game which remains uncracked for a month is in a better position than a game that remains uncracked for an hour.

MGS V is very much not cracked. The pirates are simply claiming something like it's "90% cracked", which is kinda like saying a lock is 90% open, but you still can't get in.

Arkham Knight is also not cracked, but that one is in a more understandable situation since the game was taken down and then put back up.

That's working on the assumption that a person who will pirate the game won't wait for the month it takes for the game to be cracked. I really don't think it works like that.

MGSV is cracked btw, after a quick search i found this.

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KungfuKitten

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#64  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

Hmm so you like this because it will boost sales or so?

I'm more concerned about the copyright psychopaths than about pirates...

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RyviusARC

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#65 RyviusARC
Member since 2011 • 5708 Posts

@True_Gamer_ said:

FIFA 15 crack still not stable or deosnt work on most pcs at all!

FIFA 16 still no crack 2 months later

Lords of Fallen approaching 1 year not cracked!

What will happen to consoles after PC piracy is finally put to rest?

There wont be a point for console DRMbox existence!!

Lords of the Fallen has been crack for many many months.

Also Dragon Age: Inquisition was also cracked long ago with all the dlc.

Only Denuvo DRM game not cracked is FIFA 16 and if people cared enough it would be cracked.

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RyviusARC

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#66  Edited By RyviusARC
Member since 2011 • 5708 Posts
@GhoX said:

I don't know why nobody is pointing out the giant elephant in the room here. Metal Gear Solid V, one of the biggest titles of the year and is certainly cared about by people (based on hype alone), uses Denuvo and is not cracked. Denuvo also seems to be one of the least intrusive DRMs in existence. It's less intrusive than lolSecuROM, less intrusive than always online, and even less intrusive than Steam by itself, which at least requires you to stay logged in in offline mode.

Further, even for all those games using Denuvo that were eventually cracked, Denuvo did exactly as it promised (and in most cases much more): "allow publishers to reap the benefits of stamping out all piracy attempts in the crucial first weeks of a title’s release." Denuvo is achieving what no other non-intrusive DRM has ever managed to achieve. There is objectively a financial gain from such a solid amount of protection. Consider also that every Denuvo crack does not reduce the time required for any subsequent Denuvo crack. It's not like SecuROM, where when the crackers figured out how to deal with one game, all the games using SecuROM would easily fall. The crackers are only able to keep up a front, and crack a Denuvo game every... few months or so, because there is only a handful of Denuvo titles on the market. If ALL the games on the market use Denuvo, it will overwhelm the crackers and rekt piracy on PC.

So why aren't all the devs using Denuvo already? From what I understand, every EA game uses Denuvo, even ones that clearly don't need it (i.e. MP-only games like Battlefront 3). All the other titles that use Denuvo, except Lords of the Fallen (which almost seems like a test subject for Denuvo), are from very large publishers. Although there is a fair amount of financial gain from Denuvo protection, it's possible that the cost of the Denuvo protection is so high that some companies find it not worthwhile or even unaffordable. What Denuvo does not have is a competent competitor capable of offering the same protection, so this may be resolved in time when new competitor(s) appear. And then? Perhaps Denuvo and its equivalents will become common place on PC even for indie games.

As for how all this will affect consoles, my guess is that the console manufacturers may adapt a software approach to anti-piracy. Right now consoles use a firmware approach, and whenever the firmware is cracked suddenly all the games on the platform become vulnerable. On the other hand, with something durable like Denuvo, one cracked game (after many months) does not affect the status of all the other games on the platform, making the platform overall more resistant to piracy.

Metal Gear Solid V is cracked and so is Mad Max which uses it as well.

Both games were cracked within the first week of release.

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uninspiredcup

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#68 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 62834 Posts

Piracy is partly the reason all PC gamers have to boast about are sharper console ports than AAA PC games, seems less them winning and more the platform committing suicide.

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#69 Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

@True_Gamer_: Discussion of piracy in general and how it might affect the industry is okay, but getting into specifics about the stability of individual cracks for specific games is absolutely not allowed. Locking.

-Byshop