If PS5 is X86 couldn't it theoretically play PS4 games natively?

Kinda like how the PC model works.

If the PS5 could play PS4 games natively then would I be wrong to assume that we would potentially see better frame rates as well given whatever frame rate cap the developer set.

BC in consoles has historically relied on either original hardware, or through software emulation, but the PS5 could potentially be the first console to run its predecessors games natively while not having to limit its performance to PS4 levels in terms of frame rates.

There's no such thing as PS5

Thank You Captain Obvious. I'm simply looking into the future and yes there will be a PS5, especially given how successful the PS4 has become.

Also, if somehow the NX becomes a huge success you'll see a PS5 sooner than expected.

Yes, it will support PS4 games if the architecture is the same.

NX will be either not as powerful as many believe or considerably more expensive than PS4/XB1. It won't likely reach PS4 success. And yes, I bet Sony has realized how easy x86 is to program for, compared to overengineered PS2 and PS3 hardware, so it is more likely they'll stick to it in a future console.

Are you insane? How are they gonna resell you the same game with 10% higher texture resolution for $50 if the game is already playable?

They couldn't get away with not offering PS4 BC with the PS5 if it remains X86. People would call them out on it.

Also Wii run Gamecube games natively

But could it potentially run PS4 games at better frame rates? Just like if you upgrade your CPU/GPU in your PC and run the same games you see better performance.

But what about PS Now² offering PS4 games streamed in full glory at 1080p in 60fps for 20$\month?

Well yeah, the CPU and GPU in the Wii is what is found in the Gamecube only clocked higher.

call them out for couple of months then bend over and accept what's given. The truth.

No thanks. Keep streaming to movies and television shows, not games.

Nope, Sony saw what happened with Microsoft when they tried to mess with their consumer base. Sony wouldn't want to risk getting mud thrown at them.

I wonder about patches though. If they make it so those patches are available for the Ps5's life cycle, it could work. But games would run the same.

But X86 is one thing, it'll need the same exact cpu architecture and the Ps4's gpu to run games 100% natively. And that costs money

Yep! One of the advantages of the x86 platform is how scalable it is, meaning that they can continue making future improvements, more powerful variations on the PS4 platform (a theoretical PS4.5, PS5, PS5.5, etc), while also having all of their games be inter compatible. This not only means backwards compatibility, it could theoretically mean forwards compatibility as well- i.e. run a PS5 game on your PS4 on Low settings, or something.

What I'm saying is if they stick with X86 then they could potentially run PS4 games with better performance just like how the PC works.

Say the PS5 has a better performing AMD APU with 8 CPU cores and a 8 Tflop GPU, what is stopping it from playing PS4 games with smoother frame rates?

Damn, I didn't even think of that. Developers could really take on the PC model. Apple kinda does that too with the iOS platform.

Minimum requirements = PS4

Recommended Requirements = PS5

Exactly! Basically, as long as you own a PlayStation bought in, say 2016 (or later), you will be able to run the game in some form or the other. Just like Apple's model, like you said. In this case, discrete variations between PlayStation platforms become a bit more meaningless- there is only PlayStation as one overarching platform, albeit with different hardware configurations.

but that has nothing to do with the bs MS tried implement. You buy a "next gen" system to play "next gen" games made for that system, not old shit released ages ago. Me personally i haven't played a single last gen title since the release of the ps4... Guess what? After such a long 7th gen, im not missing it one bit.

@emgesp: It should if it isn't emulated, and the OS is similar...

I forgot that the XB1 is X86 as well. I kinda think Microsoft would consider doing that given how much better the PS4 has been selling. They could potentially gain back some users with an XB1.5 without alienating their current install base. It would be the end of traditional console cycles which I have no problem with.

I think the idea was future scalability on both fronts- Sony has already started talking about a PS4.5, for example. I am sure Microsoft has the same idea too.

It could be a nice selling point too. Play your PS4 library with better performance.

Great point there !

Something like that might work in the future

Do you think the traditional 5-6 yr console cycles is outdated? I personally think the iOS/PC model is the way to go.

It doesn't matter if the APU would be vastly better, it has to be the exact same architecture for native BC, to run them as they are on PS4. I'm not just talking about performance, but stability of the games, i.e. bugs. What you're proposing would make the Ps5 a literal closed box PC, and that would present some problems for those Ps4 games i'm sure and games would require new patches when problems arise or you'd have to play them as is.

But then again, it seems Sony and MS are hell bent on totally transforming consoles into PC's, so it's possible you could get your wish.

If its X86 and the OS is similar then why would it work any differently than how the PC works when you upgrade parts?

At the end of the day the PS4 is just an X86 PC with a custom OS.

@emgesp: If it can run PS4 games but their framerate is locked, they'll probably just unlock it through a patch downloadable on the PS5.

It's no big deal really.

True, but you could still see performance boosts in games with capped frame rates as most PS4 games have performance dips here and there even at 30fps target.

Do you mean through emulation ?

Doesn't the CPU just need to be based off of the PS4's cpu... They are custom aren't they ? Now if Sony goes for x86 and uses a custom CPU architecture with PS4's in mind.. Shouldn't it work ? The main problem with PS4 backward compatibility is the PS3's cell processor and the unique SPU and of course because the x86-x64 AMD Jaguar in the PS4 isn't powerful enough to let that happen.

if you look at the emulation happening on Xbox One for BC you'll see that games like Mass Effect look better on Xbox One than on Xbox 360....

The textures stay the same but some colours look clearer and some areas in the game look blurrier on Xbox 360. It proves that if your specs are better, then regardless of how you run the game it'll look better on the current console than on the previous one.

Also TC was referring to frame rates...which I believe can just be unlocked through a patch, as you said.

@acp_45:

I'm saying emulation wouldn't be necessary with PS4 BC on the PS5 if its X86 and the OS is similar.

Think of it like how different PCs runs the same games. As long as you meet, or surpass the minimum specs there should be no problems running games as long as you are running a supported OS. PS4 BC on the PS5 shouldn't have to be set to a "PS4 mode" is what I'm getting at.

I don't think it'll happen unless they try to use a customised architecture with PS4's architecture in mind...but still it's not like PS4's architecture is as unique as PS3's because that is exactly why BC isn't really possible on PS4.

So maybe you'd just need a stronger specs PS5 but I don't think it always works like that.....but if it does then it needs to be x86.

Yep, that is exactly what I was trying to get at. The PS5 will most likely be X86 just like the PS4 and so native BC shouldn't be an issue. Also, I'm sure Sony will continue to use AMD APU's in their future consoles.

Also, the CPU cores in the PS4 aren't exactly custom, they are pretty much just standard AMD Jaguar cores. If Sony goes with 8 or more AMD Zen (or Zen Successor) cores with the PS5 then it should run Jaguar code without any issues as they both use the same AMD64 instruction set.

I really hope Ronvalencia chimes in on this.

Yes, and the same goes for Xbox One as well obviously. Contrary to popular opinion, console manufacturers have a vested interest in allowing old digital games to work on new consoles. It saves on development time and effort remastering games. BC digital downloads allow old content to remain relevant without doing any extra work. Sony won't bother trying to put in the effort MS is to make old games compatible, but they would surely do the bare minimum necessary to keep PS4 games running into a new generation. And they could still release 4K remastered collections if they want to for supplemental sales.

Deep down, I think everyone knew that the Cell was a deadend. There will be no excuses next time.

In theory yes but they would probably code it out

Only if they let it.... I don't see that happening since it would mean less resell opportunity. That's what you get when you buy a closed system though....

In theory yes, no emulation would be required if they write the software properly and can in theory be natively executed if the hardware is similar enough.

However if the GPU changes significantly (remember the Playstation uses a custom API written for the hardware) then perhaps some fucntions may need to be emulated as far as timings and performance is concerned. I don't really know how games are coded in that respect, no idea if game devs can even write their own APIs if they can then those games would have problems.

Remember on PC the hardware drivers for DX and OpenGL are provided by the graphics card company, Sony would have to provide a compatibility layer especially if they choose to move to new APIs, and in some instances there might be bugs and problems depending on how a game is coded.

I think the answer is, if Sony wants to provide support for it, sure. They might have even laid the groundwork for such a thing in the PS4 firmware already, if they move from AMD to Nvidia in the future then it will need much more additional work, especially where computation is done on the GPU, and of course it would need to be an APU with shared memory or it will not work at all.

Will it play ps3 games though!?

If that were the case you wouldn't see BC happening in the XB1. Sony is only reselling PS3 remasters because PS3 BC is damn near an impossibility on the PS4.

Theoretical it could. However on the other hand, the final say goes to Sony as they could simply "block" its previous gen games.

But why block a potential selling feature?

Hello another Captain Obvious. Yes, I'm fully aware that the PS5 doesn't currently exist, but it will eventually.

As I said before I'm just thinking into the future and the possibilities for PS4 BC if the PS5 sticks with X86.

Sorry lol...you are right. As for your question, i'm not sure how it works, but in theory it seems possible. It would be like running a PC game on better hardware...

@emgesp: They could but it would be up to devs to add enhancements. I think that's the route they should go to keep console lifecycles shorter.

Sony already has 100% BC on ps1 games through emulation. They are getting away with it atm

presumably, there would be no reason for both next gen consoles to not have BC at launch

That would be really really dumb.

I think that is where we are all eventually headed, yeah.