If Sony downgrades the NGP specs, will you not buy it?

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jasonharris48

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#101 jasonharris48
Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts

It depends on the price.

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YoYo278

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#102 YoYo278
Member since 2006 • 432 Posts

Anyone saying that because it's quad-core 800mhz it will be 'magnitudes' more powerful than the 3ds has no idea what they're talking about. Overall it's roughly 2-3x as powerful (and this 'drop' won't make it any worse), far closer than the 6-8x as powerful between the DS and PSP

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Hammstray

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#103 Hammstray
Member since 2010 • 890 Posts

I just really want a NGP, it will have better graphics than the psp still and it has some sick games coming out for it!!!

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Com64-2

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#104 Com64-2
Member since 2011 • 134 Posts
the ngp allways had 128mb VRam and they have maybe halved the system ram from 512 to 256. The NGP doesnt need 512mb system ram anyway so sounds fine to me and still very powerfull. NGP have 384mb ram total The PSP also had half Vram compared to ps2. The NGP screen is half 720p and doesnt need that much Vram or system ram. Uncharted NGP will look same without downgrade.
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RandomWinner

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#105 RandomWinner
Member since 2010 • 3751 Posts

Well RAM isn't that expensive, so one would wonder why they wouldn't take an extra $5 hit for double the RAM. But in the long run, if they get it down to $250 with the 3DS, they could win the handheld generation.

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fueled-system

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#106 fueled-system
Member since 2008 • 6529 Posts

I thought the specs were the most important thing :?

Its just another handheld now with slightly upgraded graphics now...

They need something to stand out from the 3ds and the great list of $1 games on phones

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GTSaiyanjin2

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#108 GTSaiyanjin2
Member since 2005 • 6018 Posts

Dont think it need 512MB of ran TBH, my 4th gen Ipod touch only has 256mb compare to 512 on the iphone 4.... and the games all play the same. The system is always smooth never any lag, frame rate in games is always great. 256 for system ran and 128 MB for the GPU should be plenty.

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forgot_it

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#109 forgot_it
Member since 2004 • 6756 Posts
Depends on the price and lineup.
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Truth_Hurts_U

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#110 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

They should have left the video mem at 256MB and made the system memory 256MB.

That would have been ok with me. They should have left about 4GB of internal storage in aswell.

I would buy it if they did that. But I don't feel like spending extra money on a memory card or having games look jaggy, low res textures and with small environments/draw distance.

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Com64-2

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#111 Com64-2
Member since 2011 • 134 Posts
Games will look better than Iphone 4 or any other phone even if they have more ram. NGP ram is faster and games will be better optimized.
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deactivated-5d6e91f5c147a

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#112 deactivated-5d6e91f5c147a
Member since 2008 • 26108 Posts
I don't care as long as it's affordable, I think that matters more.
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lordreaven

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#113 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts

wasn't the NGP supposed to have 1GB of RAM.

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darth-pyschosis

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#114 darth-pyschosis
Member since 2006 • 9322 Posts

[QUOTE="darth-pyschosis"]

[QUOTE="PC_Otter"] Four Cortex A9 cores @ 800 MHz is a pretty hefty CPU (for a mobile device). 3DS supposedly runs a dual core ARM at 266 MHz (ARM 11?). NGP will pretty much still be multitude's more powerful on the CPU side of things.PC_Otter

That rumor about the 3DS is wrong, dead wrong. It only has on CPU inside, it doesn't have multiple cores to my knowledge. And even then you're getting it wrong. It was rumored (by IGN who said the 3DS had 64MB RAM, when it has 128MB for games and 32MB for the OS, 160MB total) that it had TWO ARM cpus at 266Mhz each, not a dual core single CPU. The DS also had two CPUs, so that would've made sense, but alas we don't know the details of the CPU.


According to ifixit.com:

Chips we've found inside the 3DS motherboard (click here for high-res version):

  • Nintendo 1048 0H ARM CPU (Red Box) - I suspect that Nintendo probably has the Pica200 core and ARM die(s) under the same package. 1048 OH is supposedly a form of ARM11 that can be scaled from 1 to 4 cores if desired.

  • Fujitsu MB82M8080-07L (Orange Box) - Probably the RAM die.

  • Toshiba THGBM2G3P1FBAI8 2 GB NAND Flash (Yellow Box)

  • Texas Instruments PAIC3010B 0AA37DW

  • UC CTR 041KM73 KG10

  • Invensense ITG-3270 MEMS Gyroscope

  • ST Micro 2048 33DH X1MAQ Accelerometer Model LIS331DH

There is no practical reason to have two actual ARM dies when you can have a dual core ARM instead. This is more simple to implement than two actual CPUs, and uses less power.

I'm sorry I worded what I meant to say wrong. Yes, it could be dual core. Heck, it could have 4 cores.

No, we still don't know its clock speed still to my knowledge.

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darth-pyschosis

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#115 darth-pyschosis
Member since 2006 • 9322 Posts

Anyone saying that because it's quad-core 800mhz it will be 'magnitudes' more powerful than the 3ds has no idea what they're talking about. Overall it's roughly 2-3x as powerful (and this 'drop' won't make it any worse), far closer than the 6-8x as powerful between the DS and PSP

YoYo278

I don't get the whole multiple cores thing. If anyone can please explain it to me, I'd love that

Is something that has 4 cores @ 1Ghz going over 1Ghz? Or is 1Ghz the max overall clock speed, just 4 cores running 250Mhz, thus not taxing a single CPU?

Or does a 4 Core 1Ghz CPU have the ability to go over 1Ghz? If you need a 3Ghz Single CPU to play a game, and you have a dual core 2Ghz CPU, would that work, and if so with what compromises, if any?

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darth-pyschosis

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#116 darth-pyschosis
Member since 2006 • 9322 Posts

[QUOTE="PC_Otter"]

[QUOTE="darth-pyschosis"]

That rumor about the 3DS is wrong, dead wrong. It only has on CPU inside, it doesn't have multiple cores to my knowledge. And even then you're getting it wrong. It was rumored (by IGN who said the 3DS had 64MB RAM, when it has 128MB for games and 32MB for the OS, 160MB total) that it had TWO ARM cpus at 266Mhz each, not a dual core single CPU. The DS also had two CPUs, so that would've made sense, but alas we don't know the details of the CPU.

darth-pyschosis


According to ifixit.com:

Chips we've found inside the 3DS motherboard (click here for high-res version):

  • Nintendo 1048 0H ARM CPU (Red Box) - I suspect that Nintendo probably has the Pica200 core and ARM die(s) under the same package. 1048 OH is supposedly a form of ARM11 that can be scaled from 1 to 4 cores if desired.

  • Fujitsu MB82M8080-07L (Orange Box) - Probably the RAM die.

  • Toshiba THGBM2G3P1FBAI8 2 GB NAND Flash (Yellow Box)

  • Texas Instruments PAIC3010B 0AA37DW

  • UC CTR 041KM73 KG10

  • Invensense ITG-3270 MEMS Gyroscope

  • ST Micro 2048 33DH X1MAQ Accelerometer Model LIS331DH

There is no practical reason to have two actual ARM dies when you can have a dual core ARM instead. This is more simple to implement than two actual CPUs, and uses less power.

I'm sorry I worded what I meant to say wrong. Yes, it could be dual core. Heck, it could have 4 cores.

No, we still don't know its clock speed still to my knowledge.

The other thing I meant to say about it having dual core, or two separate CPUs, is that it wouldn't have surprised me if (before the tear downs came out) if it had two separate CPUs since the DS line all had separate CPUs clocked at different speeds.

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osan0

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#117 osan0
Member since 2004 • 18264 Posts

[QUOTE="YoYo278"]

Anyone saying that because it's quad-core 800mhz it will be 'magnitudes' more powerful than the 3ds has no idea what they're talking about. Overall it's roughly 2-3x as powerful (and this 'drop' won't make it any worse), far closer than the 6-8x as powerful between the DS and PSP

darth-pyschosis

I don't get the whole multiple cores thing. If anyone can please explain it to me, I'd love that

Is something that has 4 cores @ 1Ghz going over 1Ghz? Or is 1Ghz the max overall clock speed, just 4 cores running 250Mhz, thus not taxing a single CPU?

Or does a 4 Core 1Ghz CPU have the ability to go over 1Ghz? If you need a 3Ghz Single CPU to play a game, and you have a dual core 2Ghz CPU, would that work, and if so with what compromises, if any?

its a bit messy on the multiple cores front. 1) you cant add the speeds up. so you cant say that 4X1GHz processors=1X4GHz processor. this is because it cant do the same work as the 4GHz CPU in some areas (but possibly can scale up better in others depending on design). the code needed to get all those cores firing will never be 100% efficent. there wil be inter processor communication and stalls while other tasks in the app complete and such like. so the quad core wont, in most cases, match that 4GHz CPU. so we always say something like "4 cores @1GHz" or something like that. 2) assuming the app is programmed to take advantage of multiple cores it will be able to do alot more than the single 1GHz CPU. this is because tasks can be run in parallel and so can be completed faster. but as mentioned in point 1 it wont run 4X as fast (assumign a quad core CPU here) unless the threads are basically completly 100% independant. thats the holy grail but hasnt been achieved. also the dev needs to make sure that the task asigned to a CPU can be done quickly enough on a 1GHz CPU (not a 4GHz). if a dev assigns one really intensive task to one CPU and that task is critical to performance then that one task would slow the whole program down. so the dev would need to find a way to ensure that the work going to each GPU can be executed quickly enough. 3) as for your last question....depends on the application. if the application is old and was developed to only run on one CPU then it wouldnt be good enough. it would max out one of your cores and leave the rest completly idle. if the app was developed to use more than one CPU though then you would be fine. so if your looking at specs it will now tell you how many cores you need and at what speed. sometimes they give model numbers instead which is also nice. if your looking at specs from an old game for example though then assume your PC only has 1 core basically.
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Rockman999

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#118 Rockman999
Member since 2005 • 7507 Posts
....WTF are people overdosing on? It's a handheld, when have those ever been about power? :| I thought people wanted handhelds to be handhelds not home consoles. :? I'll get it if it launches with a $200 price tag.
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PC_Otter

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#119 PC_Otter
Member since 2010 • 1623 Posts

The other thing I meant to say about it having dual core, or two separate CPUs, is that it wouldn't have surprised me if (before the tear downs came out) if it had two separate CPUs since the DS line all had separate CPUs clocked at different speeds.

darth-pyschosis



This is true, and I don't know the state of clock domain controlling in ARM processors. My assumption is that individual cores could be controlled like in modern x86 cores. It would just make plain sense in the case of a portable, embedded product like an ARM system. What I also want to know is how everything is packaged. It looks like the ARM processor and Pica200 GPU are probably in the same main "package", like so many mobile products.

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darth-pyschosis

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#120 darth-pyschosis
Member since 2006 • 9322 Posts

[QUOTE="darth-pyschosis"]

[QUOTE="YoYo278"]

Anyone saying that because it's quad-core 800mhz it will be 'magnitudes' more powerful than the 3ds has no idea what they're talking about. Overall it's roughly 2-3x as powerful (and this 'drop' won't make it any worse), far closer than the 6-8x as powerful between the DS and PSP

osan0

I don't get the whole multiple cores thing. If anyone can please explain it to me, I'd love that

Is something that has 4 cores @ 1Ghz going over 1Ghz? Or is 1Ghz the max overall clock speed, just 4 cores running 250Mhz, thus not taxing a single CPU?

Or does a 4 Core 1Ghz CPU have the ability to go over 1Ghz? If you need a 3Ghz Single CPU to play a game, and you have a dual core 2Ghz CPU, would that work, and if so with what compromises, if any?

its a bit messy on the multiple cores front. 1) you cant add the speeds up. so you cant say that 4X1GHz processors=1X4GHz processor. this is because it cant do the same work as the 4GHz CPU in some areas (but possibly can scale up better in others depending on design). the code needed to get all those cores firing will never be 100% efficent. there wil be inter processor communication and stalls while other tasks in the app complete and such like. so the quad core wont, in most cases, match that 4GHz CPU. so we always say something like "4 cores @1GHz" or something like that. 2) assuming the app is programmed to take advantage of multiple cores it will be able to do alot more than the single 1GHz CPU. this is because tasks can be run in parallel and so can be completed faster. but as mentioned in point 1 it wont run 4X as fast (assumign a quad core CPU here) unless the threads are basically completly 100% independant. thats the holy grail but hasnt been achieved. also the dev needs to make sure that the task asigned to a CPU can be done quickly enough on a 1GHz CPU (not a 4GHz). if a dev assigns one really intensive task to one CPU and that task is critical to performance then that one task would slow the whole program down. so the dev would need to find a way to ensure that the work going to each GPU can be executed quickly enough. 3) as for your last question....depends on the application. if the application is old and was developed to only run on one CPU then it wouldnt be good enough. it would max out one of your cores and leave the rest completly idle. if the app was developed to use more than one CPU though then you would be fine. so if your looking at specs it will now tell you how many cores you need and at what speed. sometimes they give model numbers instead which is also nice. if your looking at specs from an old game for example though then assume your PC only has 1 core basically.

Thanks, I believe I understand it better now.

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#121 PSdual_wielder
Member since 2003 • 10646 Posts

At the end of the day the only deciding factor will be the games.