@Zero_epyon: Either way the discussion here isn't really about Joel. I understand a lot of people were upset by his fate, many exclaim he was very out-of-character, even. That's a different topic, though.
At the end of the day we live in a capitalist society that allows genuine endeavors as much as those who are in the system to make a quick buck. The latter will always exist even outside the current political environment.
That stuff is never going to stop, and people have the right of opinion when it comes down to seeing what comes from a genuine place versus mega corporations catching a trend.
We need diversity in games and I'd much rather see more individuals of diverse backgrounds to tell their authentic tales than just a woke company making an agenda-fueled marketing ploy.
But my question remains still unanswered. Was authenticity ever a requirement?
@Zero_epyon: Either way the discussion here isn't really about Joel. I understand a lot of people were upset by his fate, many exclaim he was very out-of-character, even. That's a different topic, though.
It totally is about Joel.
The OP:
If Sony owned Konami would Snake have been killed off years ago in favor of LGBTQ characters
Literally talking about Joel being killed and replaced with Ellie as the main character who's a lesbian. So that's what I mean. Joel was never the main character and it went over people's heads.
At the end of the day we live in a capitalist society that allows genuine endeavors as much as those who are in the system to make a quick buck. The latter will always exist even outside the current political environment.
That stuff is never going to stop, and people have the right of opinion when it comes down to seeing what comes from a genuine place versus mega corporations catching a trend.
We need diversity in games and I'd much rather see more individuals of diverse backgrounds to tell their authentic tales than just a woke company making an agenda-fueled marketing ploy.
But my question remains still unanswered. Was authenticity ever a requirement?
As my first paragraph alludes towards the answer: no, it is not required.
My second paragraph: we as consumers have the right to distinguish and support authenticity.
The inauthentic will always be there even outside the political topic, and we have the right to not support it.
People are kidding themselves if they think Sony (and the gaming industry at large) ain't ticking boxes to "make up" for years of (falsely) perceived straight white male bias from tinfoil hat wearing woke lunatics.
Since this thread is about Sony I'll use their games as examples. Why do they purposely make all of their female characters ugly or give them male body types? Are they worried that no one will take them seriously if they're attractive? Because that's sexist if they are. Just take Dina for instance
She looks nothing like the woman she was modeled after. Naughty Dog has no excuse because they have some of the most talented developers in the industry with unlimited budgets and time. They made her ugly just because.
There's clear sexism and tokenism going on in the industry right now, and it's all coming from the left.
People are kidding themselves if they think Sony (and the gaming industry at large) ain't ticking boxes to "make up" for years of (falsely) perceived straight white male bias from tinfoil hat wearing woke lunatics.
Since this thread is about Sony I'll use their games as examples. Why do they purposely make all of their female characters ugly or give them male body types? Are they worried that no one will take them seriously if they're attractive? Because that's sexist if they are. Just take Dina for instance
She looks nothing like the woman she was modeled after. Naughty Dog has no excuse because they have some of the most talented developers in the industry with unlimited budgets and time. They made her ugly just because.
There's clear sexism and tokenism going on in the industry right now, and it's all coming from the left.
Can't tell if this is a serious post and that's concerning lol
@Zero_epyon: I totally skimmed past that part in the OP.
That itself is pretty stupid. Ellie was one of the main characters in the first game as well - you even played as her in the first game.
I think the real issue people have over Joel in TLoU2 was his out-of-character response and a fate many people found disrespectful.
I don't really care either way but that's what I largely see from people who have actual complaints not fueled by bullshit.
I'm just now hearing about Joel being out of character. What does that mean?
I haven't played TLoU2 to form an opinion on that matter, but I've heard the out-of-character complaint by more than a few people.
From what I understand: he is killed while his guard is completely down. Much of the complaints is about that because Joel has already been painted as a very alert, seasoned survivor in this universe. In the first game we saw his instincts kick into high gear and he's managed to use his intuition to bust out of ambushes. I think that's where the complaint comes from, because during his killing, all his wisdom and instinct he's already shown, completely thrown out of the window.
@Zero_epyon: I totally skimmed past that part in the OP.
That itself is pretty stupid. Ellie was one of the main characters in the first game as well - you even played as her in the first game.
I think the real issue people have over Joel in TLoU2 was his out-of-character response and a fate many people found disrespectful.
I don't really care either way but that's what I largely see from people who have actual complaints not fueled by bullshit.
I'm just now hearing about Joel being out of character. What does that mean?
I haven't played TLoU2 to form an opinion on that matter, but I've heard the out-of-character complaint by more than a few people.
From what I understand: he is killed while his guard is completely down. Much of the complaints is about that because Joel has already been painted as a very alert, seasoned survivor in this universe. In the first game we saw his instincts kick into high gear and he's managed to use his intuition to bust out of ambushes. I think that's where the complaint comes from, because during his killing, all his wisdom and instinct he's already shown, completely thrown out of the window.
Here's what I know from the game:
Joel's been living in Jackson for at least 5-6 years. Jackson isn't completely closed to the world and allows groups to pass through and trade, suggesting that town like Jackson isn't so unique. Abby's group aren't all blood thirsty mercs. To Joel, they seemed like the usual group they'd see around all the time. Their demeanors changed as soon as they knew who Joel was. He also didn't just stroll into their space after being invited in. He was led there with a horde of infected behind him. Tommy was even more laid back. He was inviting them to Jackson to resupply before they continued on their trip. This was business as usual for them.
People are kidding themselves if they think Sony (and the gaming industry at large) ain't ticking boxes to "make up" for years of (falsely) perceived straight white male bias from tinfoil hat wearing woke lunatics.
Since this thread is about Sony I'll use their games as examples. Why do they purposely make all of their female characters ugly or give them male body types? Are they worried that no one will take them seriously if they're attractive? Because that's sexist if they are. Just take Dina for instance
She looks nothing like the woman she was modeled after. Naughty Dog has no excuse because they have some of the most talented developers in the industry with unlimited budgets and time. They made her ugly just because.
There's clear sexism and tokenism going on in the industry right now, and it's all coming from the left.
I think people should stop pushing for censorship and sanitization of developers' works. If your tastes sell well you shouldn't need to push your agenda on devs because you'll have plenty to play.
I think people should stop pushing for censorship and sanitization of developers' works. If your tastes sell well you shouldn't need to push your agenda on devs because you'll have plenty to play.
How dare you imply that the gamers who are complaining agendas in games are pushing an agenda. That goes against their belief. 😎
As my first paragraph alludes towards the answer: no, it is not required.
My second paragraph: we as consumers have the right to distinguish and support authenticity.
The inauthentic will always be there even outside the political topic, and we have the right to not support it.
Since this wasn't a requirement before why is there a strong request for authenticity when it comes to diversity?
You don't actually know if I felt this way before. I, much like yourself, go by the topics at hand - whatever System Wars is jiving with at a point in time. Up until recently I haven't seen too many topics regarding this issue.
I am also much more active and outspoken in the film community. I think cinema is quite ahead on this topic. There is a rise of women filmmakers, POC filmmakers, LGBT filmmakers, and it's only going to get better.
The film industry is drifting further away from just your seasoned white filmmaker making movies about other diversities.
Not that white people can't make movies about other diversities; however, I like the trend of diverse crowds being the ones that get to helm the director's chair and be the ones having the voice. There needs to be a greater balance of diversity in these fields.
I like this trend and I would like to see it more in the video game industry.
You don't actually know if I felt this way before. I, much like yourself, go by the topics at hand - whatever System Wars is jiving with at a point in time. Up until recently I haven't seen too many topics regarding this issue.
I am also much more active and outspoken in the film community. I think cinema is quite ahead on this topic. There is a rise of women filmmakers, POC filmmakers, LGBT filmmakers, and it's only going to get better.
The film industry is drifting further away from just your seasoned white filmmaker making movies about other diversities.
Not that white people can't make movies about other diversities; however, I like the trend of diverse crowds being the ones that get to helm the director's chair and be the ones having the voice. There needs to be a greater balance of diversity in these fields.
I like this trend and I would like to see it more in the video game industry.
You do realize that there was no implication of you in my question.
Since the industry made an intentional shift in diversity there is a sudden list of criteria that was absent prior. The question still remains, why are people voicing their concerns of characters needing to be correctly implemented or have authenticity in your case now? Why was this outcry absent prior to the this shift? You are giving a backstory that shares no real relevance to the question being asked.
Jesus H Christ, you right-wingers are really pushing it lol.
The only thing worse than whatever agenda the right thinks is out to get them and the things they like...
...is how the right responds to it.
@Maroxad said:
Could you have tried picking a better franchise to make your point? Solid Snake raises a kid together with Otacon, and then there is that mission in Peace Walker.
This is just as silly as people picking on Marvel for their progressive politics when they have been progressive since at least Captain America
QFT
X-men were made as an analogue for civil rights as well, iirc.
Oh, and here is a black man talking back to abusive cops in Green Lantern comics from like the 1960's, while a white Green Lantern is called on his bigotries by a Guardian.
But you know, let's just keep repeating history, that's not tedious.
Have you forgotten all about the MGS2 controversy? Assuming OP was around back then? That was the first Internet backlash controversy I remember. Many fans attacked Kojima and Konami for replacing Solid Snake with Raiden, especially because they thought Raiden looked "gay" or "effeminate". The game also got flack for its depiction of homosexual characters, which was almost unheard of in gaming back then. The Internet, especially the gaming community, was generally more homophobic/transphobic/sexist back in those days, so MGS2 got a ton of hate. That's yet another way in which Kojima was forward-thinking for his time.
In some ways, it's reminiscent of the TLOU2 controversy, and I suspect Naughty Dog may have taken some cues from MGS2 in that regard. But instead of an "effeminate" looking male like Raiden, they instead introduced a maculine-looking female (Abby). But TLOU2 took it a step further by having this new character kill the previous male protagonist. If Kojima pulled something similar in MGS2, have Raiden kill Snake, the backlash against MGS2 would've been way worse than the TLOU2 backlash today.
People are kidding themselves if they think Sony (and the gaming industry at large) ain't ticking boxes to "make up" for years of (falsely) perceived straight white male bias from tinfoil hat wearing woke lunatics.
Since this thread is about Sony I'll use their games as examples. Why do they purposely make all of their female characters ugly or give them male body types? Are they worried that no one will take them seriously if they're attractive? Because that's sexist if they are. Just take Dina for instance
She looks nothing like the woman she was modeled after. Naughty Dog has no excuse because they have some of the most talented developers in the industry with unlimited budgets and time. They made her ugly just because.
There's clear sexism and tokenism going on in the industry right now, and it's all coming from the left.
Can't tell if this is a serious post and that's concerning lol
He's right, though, in that developers like Naughty Dog go out of their way to make female characters less sexy, which is why they shrunk that model's breasts. I find it sexist too, because they're acting like attractive femininity is bad. It's also why Lara Laura Croft is shorter and more average looking now. To be feminist would be to accept that it's fine to have bodies like Lara Croft (adjusting for the old cartoon art style).
For starters, this kind of thread doesn't belong in system wars and this thread did what I expected, got turn into an all political. That said, this is getting shutdown.
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