Is 1080p really needed in games ?

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

I just realized loosingENDS is an idiot.:|

faizan_faizan

Took you a while. He's been doing this for a loooooooooooooong time

He's on, like, his 3rd or 4th account, been banned for gametrailers, ign, etc :P It's been quite the circus :)

As of right now, resolution is the most important setting in PC games....

So make up your own mind.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Took you a while. He's been doing this for a loooooooooooooong time

wis3boi

He's on, like, his 3rd or 4th account, been banned for gametrailers, ign, etc :P It's been quite the circus :)

better > worse

[QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

that's because the vast majority of console games are rendered at 720p or under. Moving up to a 1080p display won't make them look any better because it's not changing the render resolution. Only the display.

the_bi99man

Well, that can probably be mostly chocked up to viewing distance. Either way, the point I've been trying to make throughout this thread (that loosey can't wrap his head around), is that even if you're on a big TV, and sitting far away, so 720p doesn't necessarily look bad, it would still look even better if it was 1080p. Loosey doesn't seem to understand this. He's one of those types that loves to use the "farther away from the screen makes it look better" argument, to claim lower resolutions look fine, but he doesn't realize that the same thing applies to ALL resolutions. Sitting 8 feet away from the screen makes 720p look better, but it will also make 1080p look even better, as well. The whole scale just shifts up.

He's also claimed throughout this thread that games should just keep piling on more detail, at an engine level, without increasing resolution, while completely ignoring the fact that engine level details get rapidly dimishing returns when they don't have a render resolution capable of displaying them properly, as was illustrated marvelously by the Dark Souls resolution comparison GIF someone posted a few pages back.

Edit: Here it is again. The only difference here is a jump from the console/vanilla PC standard sub-720p res, to the full 1080p allowed by DSfix. No assets, textures, or anything like that are changed. All the detail you can see in the 1080p shot is actually there in the other shot, just buried and blurred because the lower resolution simply doesn't have enough pixels to display it. And Dark Souls doesn't even have anywhere near the highest quality assets and textures that are available in games these days.

Better is better.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="cain006"]...I know. I'm talking about games on my pc. I've played Shift 2, Driver San Francisco, and Mass Effect 2/3 so far. I know they're not the best games to judge this by but they look almost as good as they did in 1080p on my monitor.

cain006

Well, that can probably be mostly chocked up to viewing distance. Either way, the point I've been trying to make throughout this thread (that loosey can't wrap his head around), is that even if you're on a big TV, and sitting far away, so 720p doesn't necessarily look bad, it would still look even better if it was 1080p. Loosey doesn't seem to understand this. He's one of those types that loves to use the "farther away from the screen makes it look better" argument, to claim lower resolutions look fine, but he doesn't realize that the same thing applies to ALL resolutions. Sitting 8 feet away from the screen makes 720p look better, but it will also make 1080p look even better, as well. The whole scale just shifts up.

He's also claimed throughout this thread that games should just keep piling on more detail, at an engine level, without increasing resolution, while completely ignoring the fact that engine level details get rapidly dimishing returns when they don't have a render resolution capable of displaying them properly, as was illustrated marvelously by the Dark Souls resolution comparison GIF someone posted a few pages back.

Edit: Here it is again. The only difference here is a jump from the console/vanilla PC standard sub-720p res, to the full 1080p allowed by DSfix. No assets, textures, or anything like that are changed. All the detail you can see in the 1080p shot is actually there in the other shot, just buried and blurred because the lower resolution simply doesn't have enough pixels to display it. And Dark Souls doesn't even have anywhere near the highest quality assets and textures that are available in games these days.

I'm just saying that the cool new technology, and advanced effects and details that everyone is hoping "next-gen" games will have, will make next to no difference if there's not a resolution increase to match it. As is demonstrated very well by Dark Souls, and many other games, 720p is already holding back detail, a lot. Why increase detail without increasing resolution, when 720p can't even properly show the level of detail that there already is, in almost every game? The only way that "next gen" console games are actually going to look "next gen", is if they're all being rendered in native 1080p, first and foremost. Worry about increasing details and effects after that. Otherwise, even more details and effects being piled on are going to literally do nothing, as 720p can't even show current-gen detail levels. Not to mention that fact that by the time the next gen consoles come out, 720p TVs will barely even be available anymore, and 1080p is extremely affordable, and has been the standard for years already.

.

R4gn4r0k

How fitting that Bale is in your sig

To respond to the thread, I absolutely think consoles need to move into 1080p.

Wideout Fusion is the best looking game (not best graphics) I've played this generation on consoles.

[QUOTE="Cranler"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Nope I take 120 fps 1680x1050 4xAA max settings over 600p or 720p04dcarraher

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

That's because CGI movies are rendered by farms of computers, taking hours at a time to render a single scene. In other words, NOT REAL TIME. And to answer your question, yes, 1080p is absolutely needed. The difference between 720p and 1080p is night and day, for anyone who's not blind and/or trolling system wars. That's why all those CGI movies also look better in 1080p than 720p. Just like... literally everything looks better in 1080p than 720p. It's over twice as many pixels. It's not hard to understand. If the next Playstation and Xbox have ANY games that aren't being rendered in 1080p native... well that will just be beyond pathetic.

the_bi99man

We're not talking about performance. Yes, COD 4 has enough enhancements to the engine itself, that it looks better at 600p than CoD2 does at 720p, but that doesn't mean that COD4 wouldn't look even better if it had all those same enhancements, PLUS 720p (or more). That's what loosey is claiming here. That higher resolution wouldn't make a difference, even if it was the only change, and nothing was sacrificed for it. Also, the difference from 600p to 720p is nowhere near the size of the difference from 720p to 1080p. Loosey actually even said (not in the OP, but later in this thread), that a bad looking game will look even worse at higher resolution. Which is simply not true, and reveals the fact that he doesn't know the difference between render resolution and display resolution. He thinks that plugging something into a 1080p TV will make it render at 1080p, because he's utterly clueless. I tried to explain it to him, citing the fact that an old console, like an N64, looks worse plugged into and HDTV than it does plugged into an SDTV, because the tiny render resolution is being massively stretched to a larger display, but it probably went right over his head.

Potential performance issues aside, assuming that performance is not a problem, increasing render resolution can only make things look better. No matter what.

[QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

that's because the vast majority of console games are rendered at 720p or under. Moving up to a 1080p display won't make them look any better because it's not changing the render resolution. Only the display.

the_bi99man

Well, that can probably be mostly chocked up to viewing distance. Either way, the point I've been trying to make throughout this thread (that loosey can't wrap his head around), is that even if you're on a big TV, and sitting far away, so 720p doesn't necessarily look bad, it would still look even better if it was 1080p. Loosey doesn't seem to understand this. He's one of those types that loves to use the "farther away from the screen makes it look better" argument, to claim lower resolutions look fine, but he doesn't realize that the same thing applies to ALL resolutions. Sitting 8 feet away from the screen makes 720p look better, but it will also make 1080p look even better, as well. The whole scale just shifts up.

He's also claimed throughout this thread that games should just keep piling on more detail, at an engine level, without increasing resolution, while completely ignoring the fact that engine level details get rapidly dimishing returns when they don't have a render resolution capable of displaying them properly, as was illustrated marvelously by the Dark Souls resolution comparison GIF someone posted a few pages back.

Edit: Here it is again. The only difference here is a jump from the console/vanilla PC standard sub-720p res, to the full 1080p allowed by DSfix. No assets, textures, or anything like that are changed. All the detail you can see in the 1080p shot is actually there in the other shot, just buried and blurred because the lower resolution simply doesn't have enough pixels to display it. And Dark Souls doesn't even have anywhere near the highest quality assets and textures that are available in games these days.

To respond to the thread, I absolutely think consoles need to move into 1080p.

Wideout Fusion is the best looking game (not best graphics) I've played this generation on consoles.

richsena

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="cain006"]...I know. I'm talking about games on my pc. I've played Shift 2, Driver San Francisco, and Mass Effect 2/3 so far. I know they're not the best games to judge this by but they look almost as good as they did in 1080p on my monitor.

Cranler

Well, that can probably be mostly chocked up to viewing distance. Either way, the point I've been trying to make throughout this thread (that loosey can't wrap his head around), is that even if you're on a big TV, and sitting far away, so 720p doesn't necessarily look bad, it would still look even better if it was 1080p. Loosey doesn't seem to understand this. He's one of those types that loves to use the "farther away from the screen makes it look better" argument, to claim lower resolutions look fine, but he doesn't realize that the same thing applies to ALL resolutions. Sitting 8 feet away from the screen makes 720p look better, but it will also make 1080p look even better, as well. The whole scale just shifts up.

He's also claimed throughout this thread that games should just keep piling on more detail, at an engine level, without increasing resolution, while completely ignoring the fact that engine level details get rapidly dimishing returns when they don't have a render resolution capable of displaying them properly, as was illustrated marvelously by the Dark Souls resolution comparison GIF someone posted a few pages back.

Edit: Here it is again. The only difference here is a jump from the console/vanilla PC standard sub-720p res, to the full 1080p allowed by DSfix. No assets, textures, or anything like that are changed. All the detail you can see in the 1080p shot is actually there in the other shot, just buried and blurred because the lower resolution simply doesn't have enough pixels to display it. And Dark Souls doesn't even have anywhere near the highest quality assets and textures that are available in games these days.

its a night and day difference when you do the resolution fix.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="Cranler"] This is about fixed hardware silly boy. A console game even on the next box at those setting would have ps2 level graphics.Cranler

Cod 2 looked much better with sharpness and clarity.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Took you a while. He's been doing this for a loooooooooooooong time

wis3boi

He's on, like, his 3rd or 4th account, been banned for gametrailers, ign, etc :P It's been quite the circus :)

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

Well, that can probably be mostly chocked up to viewing distance. Either way, the point I've been trying to make throughout this thread (that loosey can't wrap his head around), is that even if you're on a big TV, and sitting far away, so 720p doesn't necessarily look bad, it would still look even better if it was 1080p. Loosey doesn't seem to understand this. He's one of those types that loves to use the "farther away from the screen makes it look better" argument, to claim lower resolutions look fine, but he doesn't realize that the same thing applies to ALL resolutions. Sitting 8 feet away from the screen makes 720p look better, but it will also make 1080p look even better, as well. The whole scale just shifts up.

He's also claimed throughout this thread that games should just keep piling on more detail, at an engine level, without increasing resolution, while completely ignoring the fact that engine level details get rapidly dimishing returns when they don't have a render resolution capable of displaying them properly, as was illustrated marvelously by the Dark Souls resolution comparison GIF someone posted a few pages back.

Edit: Here it is again. The only difference here is a jump from the console/vanilla PC standard sub-720p res, to the full 1080p allowed by DSfix. No assets, textures, or anything like that are changed. All the detail you can see in the 1080p shot is actually there in the other shot, just buried and blurred because the lower resolution simply doesn't have enough pixels to display it. And Dark Souls doesn't even have anywhere near the highest quality assets and textures that are available in games these days.

04dcarraher

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] There's always an option. but cod 4 looked like a pixelated mess compared to Cod 2 on my 52" 1080 plasma.04dcarraher

Cod 2 looked much better with sharpness and clarity.

[QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

Of course the end result matters but fend was talking about the quality of the port. So I replied to that. The port, in itself, does not allow for higher resolutions than 720p. So it does not show a huge difference between 720p and 1080p like he claimed.

If you count the resolution fix mod than it's not 'one of the crappiest ports to hit the PC' anymore. Because that mod does fixes the biggest problem the port had.

the_bi99man

I'd say it still warrants calling it a terrible port. :PI mean, that should nothave been something that a modder needed to "fix". A PC game with a locked resolution? I'm pretty sure that's completely unprecedented. The only excuse for why it didn't have resolution options available in the first place, is developer laziness on a legendary scale.

Edit: why do some of my posts come up with this tiny tiny font size? It's been happening with random posts every now and again for the last couple days. I don't get it. I'm not changing anything to make it that way, and I can't figure out how to fix it in an edit.

Btw, DSFix modder is not a rookie GpGPU programmer.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/08/28/how-dark-souls-pc-became-awesome.aspx

"Thoman is currently working toward a PhD in computer science at the University of Innsbruck in Austria"

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="Cranler"] No way is that just a res change, theres other mods in that. Cranler

you clearly don't know jack sh!t

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="Cranler"] No way is that just a res change, theres other mods in that. Cranler

lol dark souls has a fixed resolution of 1024x720its not even 1280x720, below 1024x720 upscaled to 1080

now with fix at 1920x1080

Are you serious OP? -_-

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Get over it its real. 04dcarraher

lol dark souls has a fixed resolution of 1024x720its not even 1280x720, below 1024x720 upscaled to 1080

now with fix at 1920x1080

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

Well, that can probably be mostly chocked up to viewing distance. Either way, the point I've been trying to make throughout this thread (that loosey can't wrap his head around), is that even if you're on a big TV, and sitting far away, so 720p doesn't necessarily look bad, it would still look even better if it was 1080p. Loosey doesn't seem to understand this. He's one of those types that loves to use the "farther away from the screen makes it look better" argument, to claim lower resolutions look fine, but he doesn't realize that the same thing applies to ALL resolutions. Sitting 8 feet away from the screen makes 720p look better, but it will also make 1080p look even better, as well. The whole scale just shifts up.

He's also claimed throughout this thread that games should just keep piling on more detail, at an engine level, without increasing resolution, while completely ignoring the fact that engine level details get rapidly dimishing returns when they don't have a render resolution capable of displaying them properly, as was illustrated marvelously by the Dark Souls resolution comparison GIF someone posted a few pages back.

Edit: Here it is again. The only difference here is a jump from the console/vanilla PC standard sub-720p res, to the full 1080p allowed by DSfix. No assets, textures, or anything like that are changed. All the detail you can see in the 1080p shot is actually there in the other shot, just buried and blurred because the lower resolution simply doesn't have enough pixels to display it. And Dark Souls doesn't even have anywhere near the highest quality assets and textures that are available in games these days.

04dcarraher

its a night and day difference when you do the resolution fix.

This gif shows nicely how much just a resolution bump does to the graphics. Look how much detail is lost due to the sub HD resolution on the shield, and how jagged the sword appears to be...

Are you serious OP? -_-

Zophar87

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"] No way is that just a res change, theres other mods in that. Ben-Buja

its a night and day difference when you do the resolution fix.

This gif shows nicely how much just a resolution bump does to the graphics. Look how much detail is lost due to the sub HD resolution on the shield, and how jagged the sword appears to be...

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"] Are you trying to tell me that 720p cant render the color blue properly? Come on now. Cranler

lol dark souls has a fixed resolution of 1024x720its not even 1280x720, below 1024x720 upscaled to 1080

now with fix at 1920x1080

Probably using Sweet FX as well. Still proves the point that going 1080P makes a big difference, even when the graphics basically stay the same. Hell, even Gamecube games look pretty good at 1080P.

For 720p vs 1080p for consoles next gen, I honestly don't mind. 1080p would look sharper and make use of my TV's 1080p. On the other hand, I'm fine with 720p and it would allow for better performance, more AA, or maybe slightly higher graphical settings. The devs will balance everything out according to what they feel is best for each game. For PC gaming, I use my monitor's 1680x1050. Anything lower doesn't look very good that close up.

has any one taken a a PC game and taken a 720p picture then compared it to 1080p. So far I've seen a 480i image compared with 1080p image on an emulator, probably with extra settings A possible 720p picture that has washed out colors compared to a 1080p with better color, and what looks like heavier AF

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

lol dark souls has a fixed resolution of 1024x720its not even 1280x720, below 1024x720 upscaled to 1080

now with fix at 1920x1080

Ben-Buja

Probably using Sweet FX as well. Still proves the point that going 1080P makes a big difference, even when the graphics basically stay the same. Hell, even Gamecube games look pretty good at 1080P.

That reminds me, someone is making a Nintendo like game with Wind Waker art style in UE3 for PC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdWS4EQKGTo

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

lol dark souls has a fixed resolution of 1024x720its not even 1280x720, below 1024x720 upscaled to 1080

now with fix at 1920x1080

Ben-Buja

Probably using Sweet FX as well. Still proves the point that going 1080P makes a big difference, even when the graphics basically stay the same. Hell, even Gamecube games look pretty good at 1080P.

[QUOTE="Ben-Buja"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"] Your screens arent loading but that fix must be removing some console blur that most console games seem to have. Color vibrancy and shadow darkness would not be changing like that with a simple res change. NoodleFighter

Probably using Sweet FX as well. Still proves the point that going 1080P makes a big difference, even when the graphics basically stay the same. Hell, even Gamecube games look pretty good at 1080P.

That reminds me, someone is making a Nintendo like game with Wind Waker art style in UE3 for PC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdWS4EQKGTo

Where would someoe Post images, I've got two skyrim pictures that are identical except for the res setting. I'm not really sure how to post them

[QUOTE="Ben-Buja"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"] Your screens arent loading but that fix must be removing some console blur that most console games seem to have. Color vibrancy and shadow darkness would not be changing like that with a simple res change. Cranler

Probably using Sweet FX as well. Still proves the point that going 1080P makes a big difference, even when the graphics basically stay the same. Hell, even Gamecube games look pretty good at 1080P.

Then why is 720p even considered the mininal... since you gave your example of COD4 being 600p and looking superior to COD2 720p ?

Where would someoe Post images, I've got two skyrim pictures that are identical except for the res setting. I'm not really sure how to post them

savagetwinkie

Where would someoe Post images, I've got two skyrim pictures that are identical except for the res setting. I'm not really sure how to post them

savagetwinkie

Tinypic hosts free.

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="Ben-Buja"]

Probably using Sweet FX as well. Still proves the point that going 1080P makes a big difference, even when the graphics basically stay the same. Hell, even Gamecube games look pretty good at 1080P.

faizan_faizan

That reminds me, someone is making a Nintendo like game with Wind Waker art style in UE3 for PC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdWS4EQKGTo

You can help by voting for it on Steam Greenlight :)

Here's another comparison I just made:

Hitman Absolution, same exact settings except resolution. The native 720P shots were upscaled to 1080P

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

That reminds me, someone is making a Nintendo like game with Wind Waker art style in UE3 for PC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdWS4EQKGTo

NoodleFighter

You can help by voting for it on Steam Greenlight :)

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

Where would someoe Post images, I've got two skyrim pictures that are identical except for the res setting. I'm not really sure how to post them

Bebi_vegeta

Tinypic hosts free.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

Where would someoe Post images, I've got two skyrim pictures that are identical except for the res setting. I'm not really sure how to post them

savagetwinkie

Tinypic hosts free.

Your pictures are not identical, one is far smaller than the other and the second picture is being squeezed also. For a comparison you need two shots 1080p size with the 720p shot upscaled to 1080p so they are the same size. That's how it works, try again.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Tinypic hosts free.

iamrob7

Your pictures are not identical, one is far smaller than the other and the second picture is being squeezed also. For a comparison you need two shots 1080p size with the 720p shot upscaled to 1080p so they are the same size. That's how it works, try again.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

savagetwinkie

Your pictures are not identical, one is far smaller than the other and the second picture is being squeezed also. For a comparison you need two shots 1080p size with the 720p shot upscaled to 1080p so they are the same size. That's how it works, try again.