Is Forza the best racing franchise in history?

No Mario Kart doesn't count.

Gran Turismo used to be considered the reference as far as racing games went but it seems Forza has passed it(pun intended).

What says you?

As far as sims go, no. There are better sims out there on PC such as iRacing (though they can get spendy)

As far as that genre of racing games that's a mix between sim and casual, it sure seems like it's hit that mark.

Yes, Forza is continually great on every release.

I'd say so, it has continually delivered a refined experience with enough growth, change and updating to justify it as the best, it's not only got the console 'sim' market on lockdown, it has the arcade racer market on complete lockdown for every platform.

Mario Kart DOES count and it has my vote for best racing franchise. Burnout would be #2 and Forza would be #3.

Yes, but cows will disagree.

Mario Kart is the best racing franchise.

Maybe in arcade racing. GT is still simulation king.

Racing doesn't involve throwing missiles and lightning strikes at people. Racing simply involves outmaneuvering your opponents to reach the finish line faster.

That's why Mario Kart doesn't count. What if the Olympics allowed tripping people and greasing the tracks in the 100M? That's what Mario Kart does.

Why shouldn't mario kart count? :/

Anywho, based on reviews you'd be hard pressed find find a better.

Yes it is....and btw I remember people trashing drivatars when they first came out and I always defended them because they are awesome.

Mario Kart counts. You trying to define racing using comparisons to athletics is silly. You maintain pace and compete with others on a circuit in Mario Kart. Racing at the top level in WEC/F1/Moto GP still involves attacking, defending, pressuring and baiting your opponents - that's racing in motorsport. Racing incidents and accidents involving contact happen all the time, are acceptable in instances where no driver is punished. They just arent considered safe for obvious reasons.

But even if you count Mario Kart, As much as I like 200cc and the tracks, the games' mechanics are just dull and uninspiring from an arcade standpoint. I wish it had Sonic All Stars' handling model, which lines up closer to Trackmania a little.

While there are other racing games I enjoy more, I do think Forza is the best racing video game brand, purely on the basis of consistency and reach. It's now running two different brands where the racecraft component is solid in both. It manages to cater car enthusiasts (Forza's biggest audience), people that just enjoy good games and to some extent, people that are racing enthusiasts that likely find its host of licensed content in tracks and vehicles appealing.

lol, not even close.

Either that or Burnout but sadly EA will never make another one again. Gran Turismo hasn't been great since the PS2 era.

Hmmm that's a tough one... it's hard to compare with games/series from different generations.

But as of right now, it's easily the best racing franchise available.

@Juub1990: I think GRID beat it for a short time, but it is definitely the best sim-racer now.

Nope. The greatest racing franchises are:

1. OutRun

2. Burnout

3. Gran Turismo (PS1-PS2 era)

At least someone here one gets it. Mario Kart is a vehicular combat game first and foremost.

As for me, well i only own one current gen console because of it's racing games, and that's all i'll say on the subject.

I would say so if I had started gaming in early 2000s

Mario is the best and how can you say Mario don't count LOL. That's like saying is Lebron the best basketball player ever and JORDAN doesn't count LOL, stop it.

Midnight club.

The Forza series is amazing.

For pure sim racing iRacing is the best.

For hybrids Forza is the best.

Mario Kart isn't a pure racing game its a car combat game.

GT fell off. Was good in its heyday but didn't progress. It's still got the same gameplay from the PS2. Played GT Sport at E3 its terrible. There's a reason Sony didn't even mention it in their stage show.

Forza is nothing but quality.

Cows will disagree tho

Easily the best racing sim series on consoles. Gran Turismo has been a joke for a while now. Can't compare to what you get on PC though.

Easily

Yes it is...if you haven't played GT 3 and 4, easily the two best racing simulations, on the mainstream anyway. Forza has surpassed in terms of customisation and their racing has been superior to the last couple GTs but they still can't tough the peak of GT...no matter how much I enjoy Forza 3

To elaborate on what you're getting at, I always felt that Forza and GT fall in their own category of "sim light". They focus more on broad scope car enthusiasts rather than hardcore sims and they are better because of it. There are really no other series like Forza and GT as none out there allows you to drive so many cars or customize them in the crazy ways you can. None other focus on the game aspect of driving games as much as Forza and GT. Both have proper progression and whatnot.

Are they realistic? Not really. It can be if you limit yourself to the stock cars and logical upgrades as the base physics models that drive both series are based on reality and calculated well, but then they allow you to knock off 1500 lbs on your 76 Camaro and turbocharge the bastard to hit 600 horsepower all while having the grip of a Lotus. It's stupidly fun. Watch me do circles around modern Ferrari in my classic American Muscle car because yay video games.

So really there are only two games there, and out of those Forza has definitely become the better series. Turn 10 just knows how to make a consistently great game. Forza 5 was a lowpoint in the series since it seemed to be rushed and they tried to monetize it too much. They turned that around big time with Forza 6.

No, don't be silly. It seems like the best racing game this gen.

Road Rash > All

Not much love for OutRun here, it seems. It's a shame most gamers today never experienced OutRun 1 & 2 in the arcades. It's an experience you just can't get on home systems.

While it's not really my thing, Forza is probably the best of it's type of racing game out there.

But if you want my opinion, the best racing franchise ever is F-Zero with Motorstorm following not too far behind.

Mario Kart counts but it isn't the best... It's a fun game but I wouldn't call it a racing game just because you move forward in something that is nothing like an actual vehicle

Buurrrnnoouutttttt. Still hasn't been a game with as easy to use and cool drifting like Burnout 3.

OutRun 2. That, and Burnout 3, are the best racing games.

In terms of the actual racing PCARS has forza beat in every way, particularly with a wheel it's a real adrenaline rush.

I'm just reading my own interpretation here, but it seems to me that when @Juub1990 excludes Mario Kart, he's going for racers within the realistic setting criteria. Not necessarily realistic physics engine, just racing games that take their design from realistic cars (either real world models or inspired by such designs) and realistic track design, be that race track or city streets. So Mario Kart is in it's own style of highly stylized car and track designs, in a cartoon aesthetic.

But in that case, I gotta ask you Juub if you also exclude Wipeout and F-zero for it's unrealistic futuristic anti-grav setting? And these games, even with their unique visual designs, still share much in common with MK, as a combat racer, which is a subset of the racing genre.

I also wanted to throw in, as far as debating what counts as a "real sim", that while some games may not be "100% true to life", it's all relative to what can be accomplished within the limitations of the technology. What GT can do today would make the original seem less sim-like. Both GT and Forza are striving to be as much as a sim as they can on their respective hardware. Sure much more can be done on PC, but that sliding scale doesn't make the console games "non-sim" or "arcade" by definition. The important thing to look at is how best the games design the racing mechanic around reasonably realistic conditions - including weight to acceleration ratio, engine cylinder power, different model steering and handling, RW vs FW vs AW mechanics, braking response times, turning apex... among so many other factors.

Basically where the game penalizes that old school "pedal to the metal" mentality and the player has to consider their approach to the track, understanding that speed needs to be balanced with control, and refrain from being reckless with no regard for consequence. So long as this is the intended design behind the game, it is a sim in intent (again going by tech parameters and intended design) and not a casual arcade racer.

And going by this criteria, yes I very much agree that Forza is the best realistic setting racer, and even sim racer, that has long ago surpassed Gran Turismo.

I say it's a great franchise and they are running it right now but tbh NFS is the best franchise. NFS Porsche Unleashed is easily one of the top 3 best racing games of all time.

Mario Kart is literally vehicular combat. Racing doesn't involve bombs, projectiles, lightning strikes or anything of the sort. F-Zero would still qualify because it's simply racing. Using the car's body to overwhelm the opponent is allowed and involves no outside interventions.

To put it simply, if the game allows the vehicle to use equipment not made for racing, it doesn't qualify as a pure racer.

I also agree with the way you worded it.

Even if Mario Kart did count, it wouldn't win. It's been inconsistent at best regardless of how good Mario Kart 8 is.

I'd say FM is one of the best series. And Turn 10 constantly push it and add new features and make changes, even when they don't have to, like the competition. Polyphony has been struggling for a long time to push any area other than graphics I think.

Surpised no one has mentioned DiRT franchise

Mario Kart is the only racing game thats fun to play...so yeah, it does count.

I liked Gran Turismo until their quality went down hill. I love Forza series so I would say yes. Drive Club VR may change my mind.

I will judge once we get a GT game for this generation I will give PD the benefit of doubt since last gen was really bad for Japanese devs other than that F6 is still the best racer of this generation (F horizon is not my cup of tea).

"last gen was really bad for Japanese devs", that is a weak excuse. The gen did not make things bad for them. If it was bad, it was because of their own failures, the generation is what they made it into and are wholly responsible. If a gen is going to be good (for ANY developer) it's up to them to make it happen. They have to rise to the challenge, because it's the developers efforts that define the generation. Not the generation defining the developers, what ever their region. And I do mean this goes for everybody, not singling out polyphony.

And based on Ployphony's track record over the last 7-8 years... sorry but can't freely give them the benefit of the doubt any more. They have to earn the consumers trust.

Fixed that for you, and even then you would still be wrong.

Keep telling yourself that, meanwhile i'll still be playing the best RACING game this gen in one of the best RACING franchises ever, Mario Kart ;)

Even if Mario Kart did count I wouldn't call it much of a contender. It's really weird. People HATED the tripping mechanic in Smash Bros. Brawl, yet most praise Mario Kart which is built around random punishment for no good reason.

I'd say the best in any genre should reward players soundly for continually improving with the game's mechanics. Mario Kart attacks you for doing that. That's game design that's pretty much impossible to defend.

I remember when GT was big that its main attraction of those that I heard talk about it was that you can race any car you wanted. That wasn't a big thing for me then, I was into more arcade racers. The only reason I like Forza now is because of the Horizon games because it has the right balance of sim and arcade racing, otherwise I'd get bored with the circuit racing. Best? Well, it certainly is a looker, there's lots to do, huge car selection, great looking tracks and maps, and it sells well, they release in a timely fashion and it's a major part of Microsoft's exclusive lineup.

Anyhow, aside from the Forza Horizon games, my favorite racers this of the last decade:

• Dirt 2 & 3 - loved these, Dirt 2 had excellent course design and Dirt 3 had some of the best online for racing, I really dislike the direction the franchise has taken since, I've no desire to play the sim heavy new Dirt game, Dirt 3 had such a balance of activities from the SP rally and races, to customizable online matches with options like forced first person, damage realism and number of resets, and their Cat & Mouse mode was maybe the best online mode in a racing game I've ever played
• Motorstorm & Motorstorm Pacific Rift - there's no other extreme sport racer that quite does it for me like the Motorstorm games did, such a shame Evolution/Sony messed up a good thing by trying to make Drive Club, I'd of loved to have seen how much more beautiful these games would have looked on a current gen system. Just a violent racer, big vehicles hitting little vehicles, car parts flying across the screen, vehicles tearing up the course and tearing tracks into the mud, mud kicking up into your window... personally, I think it all went downhill with their PSP/PS2 Motorstorm game that didn't sell, Evolution probably couldn't leverage the money to make Apocalypse properly, and when that failed Sony probably wouldn't fund them without a new project idea, hence Drive Club
• Split/Second: Velocity - oh how I loved this game, the whole idea of destructive course combat really worked well here, it was a punishingly difficult game later on, lots of people complained about rubber-banding AI, but I thought it made it even more intense to play and it really prepped me for some really competitive online racing which was pretty damn fun, one of the more unique racers of last gen, it really didn't get much attention though, released same month as Mario Galaxy 2 and Red Dead Redemption, and it released next to Blur which was another racing game and I'm sure people got the two confused and they probably didn't care for either anyways, I almost never played it but I hit up Fry's when they had their 70+ inch HDTV playing it with the surround sound cranked, I played enough of it that I left with a copy that day and didn't regret it.

@madsnakehhh said:

@i_p_daily said:

@madsnakehhh said:

Mario Kart is the only vehicular combat game thats fun to play...so yeah, it does count.

Fixed that for you, and even then you would still be wrong.

@i_p_daily said:

@madsnakehhh said:

Mario Kart is the only vehicular combat game thats fun to play...so yeah, it does count.

Fixed that for you, and even then you would still be wrong.

Keep telling yourself that, meanwhile i'll still be playing the best RACING game this gen in one of the best RACING franchises ever, Mario Kart ;)

When was the last time you won a race on MK without using weapons/powerups? it's a major part of the game.

Read what the OP said and then come back with an answer. i get it you like MK but it doesn't fit the criteria of this thread, and even if it did it still wouldn't be the winner. Sorry to burst your bubble :(

@i_p_daily: TC is talking about the "Best Racing Franchise" in history, Mario Kart does count and is one of the best racing franchises in history ( and my personal favorite), just because TC lives on his own bubble doesn't mean that the rest have to...Mario Kart is a racing game and people loves the games...deal with it.

And please, don't get me the thing about Sim Racers...because then TC's thread would be even more of a joke by mentioning Forza.