Is Lair the biggest flop in SW history?

Yeah I think either Killzone or Liar.

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

It's the biggest in terms of expected score, I think, although Daikatana may have been bigger.mjarantilla

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

CB4McGusto

And it missed it by 0.2 points. Yeah, HUUUUGE flop there. :roll:

No, Lair was by far a bigger flop just by the pure magnitude of its failure as a game versus the expectations.

Yes, Playstation exclusives.

Haze was a pretty fun one, but it wasn't hyped real high and it didn't get the IGN score here lol.

But yeah I'd say Lair is the worst.

It's the biggest in terms of expected score, I think, although Daikatana may have been bigger.mjarantilla

Lair was big,

But the lead-up to Killzone was unreal, I remember there was a billboard across the street from Union that read "Playstation's Halo Killer is coming..."

Killzone fell the hardest by far.

Lair was big,

But the lead-up to Killzone was unreal, I remember there was a billboard across the street from Union that read "Playstation's Halo Killer is coming..."

Killzone fell the hardest by far.

cosmostein77

LOL can't beleive they would put that on a billboard

EPIC Fail

In terms of score, probably.

But in terms of aftermath? Definitely TP. The fallout for that lasted days and Jeff was probably the most hated man in the country for a while.

Like some have stated.

Hype/Score : Lair

Hype/Aftermath : TP

Honestly I rented lair since they updated the controls to allow for non-Sixaxis for the game...and I really liked it. I may buy it or at least rent it again so I can finish.

What about FF X-2? Wasn't that hyped up pretty bad for a game that was horrible.

A lot of people probably haven't been here long enough to remember... but Blinx the timesweeper was insane when it flopped. That was back in the days when system wars was a unregulated wasteland. There was much flaming, spamming, and account suicides.Huff

That was hyped? wow I never knew.

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

CB4McGusto

Um that only missed AAA by .2 points and it wasnt really a flop as everyone knows its an amazing game. Its floppage is based on the technicalities of SW ruels, not reality. Liar and Killzone were hyped through the roof and truely were terrible games.

Brute Force has to be up there, but its not as fresh in anyone's memory.

There are comparable flops over the years, but Lair is pretty bad.

To me the biggest flop was Big Rigs because I hyped it 9.5.

[QUOTE="CB4McGusto"]

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

TOAO_Cyrus1

Um that only missed AAA by .2 points and it wasnt really a flop as everyone knows its an amazing game. Its floppage is based on the technicalities of SW ruels, not reality. Liar and Killzone were hyped through the roof and truely were terrible games.

TP felt weak and uninspired compared to the rest of the Zelda games. It was a huge flop.

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="CB4McGusto"]

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

SSCyborg

Um that only missed AAA by .2 points and it wasnt really a flop as everyone knows its an amazing game. Its floppage is based on the technicalities of SW ruels, not reality. Liar and Killzone were hyped through the roof and truely were terrible games.

TP felt weak and uninspired compared to the rest of the Zelda games. It was a huge flop.

Thats your opinion but its 94.1 average in gamerankings says most people dont think so. Its only a flop in SW because of the rules.

[QUOTE="CB4McGusto"]

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

TOAO_Cyrus1

Um that only missed AAA by .2 points and it wasnt really a flop as everyone knows its an amazing game. Its floppage is based on the technicalities of SW ruels, not reality. Liar and Killzone were hyped through the roof and truely were terrible games.

You weren't here when Twilight Princess was reviewed, were you? The aftermath of it just scoring .2 below 9 was... well... massive. Like I said, the score itself wasn't the reason the game was a flop, it was the aftermath the Nintendo and Zelda fanboys gave.

Regardless I still loved the game. :P

EDIT: Well... its score was part of the reason it was a flop because it was hyped AAA, even AAAA by some. But the aftermath was the reason its argued that it may be the biggest flop and the reason it will be remembered.

You weren't here when Twilight Princess was reviewed, were you? The aftermath of it just scoring .2 below 9 was... well... massive. Like I said, the score itself wasn't the reason the game was a flop, it was the aftermath the Nintendo and Zelda fanboys gave.

Regardless I still loved the game. :P

Zassimick

Yeah, the difference is TP is still considered a good game and is a good game. It's not like Lair, which its hard to find anyone that actually likes it. Remember when Sony sent out a kit on HOW to review Lair?

[QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="CB4McGusto"]

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

TOAO_Cyrus1

Um that only missed AAA by .2 points and it wasnt really a flop as everyone knows its an amazing game. Its floppage is based on the technicalities of SW ruels, not reality. Liar and Killzone were hyped through the roof and truely were terrible games.

TP felt weak and uninspired compared to the rest of the Zelda games. It was a huge flop.

Thats your opinion but its 94.1 average in gamerankings says most people dont think so. Its only a flop in SW because of the rules.

It was a ripoff of A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Both of which averaged 93.5%(with 14 reviews. If there were more you had best believe it would be higher) and 97.6% respectively. It was a failure, and didn't bring something unique to the table that each 3D Zelda before it did.

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="CB4McGusto"]

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

Zassimick

Um that only missed AAA by .2 points and it wasnt really a flop as everyone knows its an amazing game. Its floppage is based on the technicalities of SW ruels, not reality. Liar and Killzone were hyped through the roof and truely were terrible games.

You weren't here when Twilight Princess was reviewed, were you? The aftermath of it just scoring .2 below 9 was... well... massive. Like I said, the score itself wasn't the reason the game was a flop, it was the aftermath the Nintendo and Zelda fanboys gave.

Regardless I still loved the game. :P

EDIT: Well... its score was part of the reason it was a flop because it was hyped AAA, even AAAA by some. But the aftermath was the reason its argued that it may be the biggest flop and the reason it will be remembered.

Ive been here since like 2004. The aftermath of Zelda's review was mostly controversy over gamespots rating as it was so out of line compared to almost every other site. Liar was hyped through the roof, was a truly terrible game and caused a huge ruckus on SW. TP was hyped through the roof, was a truly great game, and there was huge controversy over gamespots review. I think its obvious which won was the bigger flop.

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="CB4McGusto"]

LOZ: TP hands down!

Everybody and they momma thought that game would go AAA.

SSCyborg

Um that only missed AAA by .2 points and it wasnt really a flop as everyone knows its an amazing game. Its floppage is based on the technicalities of SW ruels, not reality. Liar and Killzone were hyped through the roof and truely were terrible games.

TP felt weak and uninspired compared to the rest of the Zelda games. It was a huge flop.

Thats your opinion but its 94.1 average in gamerankings says most people dont think so. Its only a flop in SW because of the rules.

It was a ripoff of A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Both of which averaged 93.5%(with 14 reviews. If there were more you had best believe it would be higher) and 97.6% respectively. It was a failure, and didn't bring something unique to the table that each 3D Zelda before it did.

You cant rip off your own game and a game doesnt need to be innovative to be great. There are very few games like Zelda so the formula wasnt tired at all.

[QUOTE="Huff"]A lot of people probably haven't been here long enough to remember... but Blinx the timesweeper was insane when it flopped. That was back in the days when system wars was a unregulated wasteland. There was much flaming, spamming, and account suicides.finalfantasy94

That was hyped? wow I never knew.

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="Huff"]A lot of people probably haven't been here long enough to remember... but Blinx the timesweeper was insane when it flopped. That was back in the days when system wars was a unregulated wasteland. There was much flaming, spamming, and account suicides.Huff

That was hyped? wow I never knew.

Xbox fans back then were like cows in 2006. They had almost no good games and were losing in sales so they hyped almost anything.

You cant rip off your own game and a game doesnt need to be innovative to be great. There are very few games like Zelda so the formula wasnt tired at all.

TOAO_Cyrus1

..yes you can. And where did I say innovative? I said unique. The game was bland, weak sidequests, and felt/looked exactly like Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past mixed together in 3D. On paper, it looks like it should be awesome. You have the perfect 2D Zelda, and the perfect 3D Zelda, but in the end you come out with a pile of crap.

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"]

You cant rip off your own game and a game doesnt need to be innovative to be great. There are very few games like Zelda so the formula wasnt tired at all.

SSCyborg

..yes you can. And where did I say innovative? I said unique. The game was bland, weak sidequests, and felt/looked exactly like Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past mixed together in 3D. On paper, it looks like it should be awesome. You have the perfect 2D Zelda, and the perfect 3D Zelda, but in the end you come out with a pile of crap.

Rippoff means you steal ideas because you cant come up with any on your own. Using the same fromula from your own games is not stealing ideas. Any zelda game is unique just from the fact that there is no other franchise like it. It wasnt quite as good as OOT but it still was an amazing game.

lets not derail this thread, our personal opinions of the game have little to do with it being the biggest flop or not.

Even though the game got good ratings GT4 scoring 8.9 with Forza getting a 9.2 next week was crazyRougehunter

I bet

[QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"]

You cant rip off your own game and a game doesnt need to be innovative to be great. There are very few games like Zelda so the formula wasnt tired at all.

TOAO_Cyrus1

..yes you can. And where did I say innovative? I said unique. The game was bland, weak sidequests, and felt/looked exactly like Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past mixed together in 3D. On paper, it looks like it should be awesome. You have the perfect 2D Zelda, and the perfect 3D Zelda, but in the end you come out with a pile of crap.

Rippoff means you steal ideas because you cant come up with any on your own. Using the same fromula from your own games is not stealing ideas. Any zelda game is unique just from the fact that there is no other franchise like it. It wasnt quite as good as OOT but it still was an amazing game.

lets not derail this thread, our personal opinions of the game have little to do with it being the biggest flop or not.

When you cannot come up with unique ideas and have to borrow them from older games, you are ripping them off. When there are no other franchises, the only thing it can do is rip games from its own franchise. TP was and still is ALttP/OoT with updated graphics and art.

It was one of the biggest. I think Twilight Princess's flop may have been bigger. Not score wise, but just the backlash from Nintendo and Zelda fanboys was large. Zassimick

Twilight Princess
Blinx
Killzone
Doom 3
fable
Super Mario Sunshine

lair isnt that big of a deal compared to these games.

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"]

You cant rip off your own game and a game doesnt need to be innovative to be great. There are very few games like Zelda so the formula wasnt tired at all.

SSCyborg

..yes you can. And where did I say innovative? I said unique. The game was bland, weak sidequests, and felt/looked exactly like Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past mixed together in 3D. On paper, it looks like it should be awesome. You have the perfect 2D Zelda, and the perfect 3D Zelda, but in the end you come out with a pile of crap.

Rippoff means you steal ideas because you cant come up with any on your own. Using the same fromula from your own games is not stealing ideas. Any zelda game is unique just from the fact that there is no other franchise like it. It wasnt quite as good as OOT but it still was an amazing game.

lets not derail this thread, our personal opinions of the game have little to do with it being the biggest flop or not.

When you cannot come up with unique ideas and have to borrow them from older games, you are ripping them off. When there are no other franchises, the only thing it can do is rip games from its own franchise. TP was and still is ALttP/OoT with updated graphics and art.

Twilight Princess
Blinx
Killzone
Doom 3
fable
Super Mario Sunshine

lair isnt that big of a deal compared to these games.

JPOBS

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"]

You cant rip off your own game and a game doesnt need to be innovative to be great. There are very few games like Zelda so the formula wasnt tired at all.

SSCyborg

..yes you can. And where did I say innovative? I said unique. The game was bland, weak sidequests, and felt/looked exactly like Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past mixed together in 3D. On paper, it looks like it should be awesome. You have the perfect 2D Zelda, and the perfect 3D Zelda, but in the end you come out with a pile of crap.

Rippoff means you steal ideas because you cant come up with any on your own. Using the same fromula from your own games is not stealing ideas. Any zelda game is unique just from the fact that there is no other franchise like it. It wasnt quite as good as OOT but it still was an amazing game.

lets not derail this thread, our personal opinions of the game have little to do with it being the biggest flop or not.

When you cannot come up with unique ideas and have to borrow them from older games, you are ripping them off. When there are no other franchises, the only thing it can do is rip games from its own franchise. TP was and still is ALttP/OoT with updated graphics and art.

Oh dear me, Nintendo had difficulty finding new ideas for the FOURTH 3D installment of a highly traditional franchise whose experience relies on GAMEPLAY more than anything else.

Tell me, how often do OTHER developers find brand new gameplay mechanics that are actually significant, and why aren't you ripping on them when they fail to do so?

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Twilight Princess
Blinx
Killzone
Doom 3
fable
Super Mario Sunshine

lair isnt that big of a deal compared to these games.

johnnyblazed88

LOL how you figure? most of those games scored 8 and above

If your only criteria is how much of a ruckus there was on SW then all those are up there.