Is Microsoft an incompetent game studio manager?

Why is it Microsoft has shut down or alienated almost every good studio they have?

I mean, they've seemingly shut down more game studio-houses than they've opened or acquired this generation...Why?

Ensemble, Digital Anvil, Aces, FASA and others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Game_Studios

Rare seems to be a shell of its former self, which is a shame since RARE was an Elite developer, as Elite as Naughty Dog is today once upon a time ago.

Then look at Bungie. Bungie wanted to get away from Microsoft so bad, that not only did they squirm, hustle and buy their way out, but now they even went to the more loving arms of Activision....ACTIVISION. That's just not right....an ironic joke, if you will.

So what's wrong with Microsoft? Why can't they manage game studios well? Are they totally incompetent?

What's wrong?

I really don't know tbh, they could stand to acquire more talent.

Youre making assumptions, just cause those studios closed under ms doesnt mean ms didnt have anything to do with it. Plenty of devs closed down over the past years and I would blame the economy more than ms.

just FYI Rare went down hill with Nintendo not MS...thats why Nintendo sold Rare

Youre making assumptions, just cause those studios closed under ms doesnt mean ms didnt have anything to do with it. Plenty of devs closed down over the past years and I would blame the economy more than ms.

pl4yer_f0und

Many of the closed studios weren't shut down durning the recession....So that's not true.

Yes, absolutely... That is why I'll be selling my 360 after finishing up my current crop of games. I'm done with M$ gaming as they've clearly shown they aren't serious about an amazing brand. They have let go of and let so many opportunities slip by it's otherwise unexplainable. Sony is the only console I need. I'm sure M$ slips even further next gen. They've screwed up their chance to take charge...

[QUOTE="pl4yer_f0und"]

Youre making assumptions, just cause those studios closed under ms doesnt mean ms didnt have anything to do with it. Plenty of devs closed down over the past years and I would blame the economy more than ms.

Unnatural101

Many of the closed studios weren't shut down durning the recession....So that's not true.

Really??? 2006-2009 werent recession years??? Shhhh dont tell GM and Chrysler.

[QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

[QUOTE="pl4yer_f0und"]

Youre making assumptions, just cause those studios closed under ms doesnt mean ms didnt have anything to do with it. Plenty of devs closed down over the past years and I would blame the economy more than ms.

pl4yer_f0und

Many of the closed studios weren't shut down durning the recession....So that's not true.

Really??? 2006-2009 werent recession years??? Shhhh dont tell GM and Chrysler.

They just make stupid decisions.

If it helps the argument then the recession actually never happend. He forgot that the head of Ensemble actually said he wasn't surprised they were shut down, FASA had been imcompetent for years, He forgot that Microsoft let bungie go *Bungie paid out no money on last check and never squirmed* but just by Him using words as squirm and wiggled we can tell exactly the source of his topic and its not fair debate.

WilliamRLBaker

I don't see Naughty Dog trying to weasel their way out from Sony.

I don't see Nintendo developers like HAL trying to run away to Capcom.

But I certainly see Bungie high-tailing it and burning rubber to get away from Microsoft.

So yes....it's a very fair debate.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

If it helps the argument then the recession actually never happend. He forgot that the head of Ensemble actually said he wasn't surprised they were shut down, FASA had been imcompetent for years, He forgot that Microsoft let bungie go *Bungie paid out no money on last check and never squirmed* but just by Him using words as squirm and wiggled we can tell exactly the source of his topic and its not fair debate.

Unnatural101

I don't see Naughty Dog trying to weasel their way out from Sony.

I don't see Nintendo developers like HAL trying to run away to Capcom.

But I certainly see Bungie high-tailing it and burning rubber to get away from Microsoft.

So yes....it's a very fair debate.

[QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

If it helps the argument then the recession actually never happend. He forgot that the head of Ensemble actually said he wasn't surprised they were shut down, FASA had been imcompetent for years, He forgot that Microsoft let bungie go *Bungie paid out no money on last check and never squirmed* but just by Him using words as squirm and wiggled we can tell exactly the source of his topic and its not fair debate.

Brownesque

I don't see Naughty Dog trying to weasel their way out from Sony.

I don't see Nintendo developers like HAL trying to run away to Capcom.

But I certainly see Bungie high-tailing it and burning rubber to get away from Microsoft.

So yes....it's a very fair debate.

I'm sure you already know that Insomniac was never owned by Sony...and interestingly, they still make exclusive games for Sony even though they are free and scheduled to make multiplatform games.

David Jaffe isnt'a dev studio. But since he did start his own studio, his studio has only made Playstation games and has no plans to make multiplatform games at this time. Eat Sleep Play is not nor was it ever owned by Sony.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

If it helps the argument then the recession actually never happend. He forgot that the head of Ensemble actually said he wasn't surprised they were shut down, FASA had been imcompetent for years, He forgot that Microsoft let bungie go *Bungie paid out no money on last check and never squirmed* but just by Him using words as squirm and wiggled we can tell exactly the source of his topic and its not fair debate.

I don't see Naughty Dog trying to weasel their way out from Sony.

I don't see Nintendo developers like HAL trying to run away to Capcom.

But I certainly see Bungie high-tailing it and burning rubber to get away from Microsoft.

So yes....it's a very fair debate.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

If it helps the argument then the recession actually never happend. He forgot that the head of Ensemble actually said he wasn't surprised they were shut down, FASA had been imcompetent for years, He forgot that Microsoft let bungie go *Bungie paid out no money on last check and never squirmed* but just by Him using words as squirm and wiggled we can tell exactly the source of his topic and its not fair debate.

Unnatural101

I don't see Naughty Dog trying to weasel their way out from Sony.

I don't see Nintendo developers like HAL trying to run away to Capcom.

But I certainly see Bungie high-tailing it and burning rubber to get away from Microsoft.

So yes....it's a very fair debate.

Microsoft's in a comfortable position as of now. As a business, they have no reason to care how many people lose their jobs, how little games they have compared to the competition, or what SW thinks of them because they're making tons of money on whatever they make on their systems. From a gamer's perspective, that's laughable, but from a business standpoint, they don't have to move until they think it's necessary. DethSkematik

That's absolutely true, but by the time they realize they should have moved they'll likely be SOL. They continue to make horrible gaming decisions. As a gamer I just have to face it that M$ has seen it's best days and that I need to step over to Sony's side. My Live gamerscore is over 70,000 and I've only played 6 or 7 games total on my PS3. However PS3 is ever improving while M$ is in a near nose dive. They squandered everything...

Your logic is horribly flawed. The name of the developer means absolutely nothing, it is the people under that name that matter. Microsoft has done a very good job of consolidating the best of the best from the many acquired companies.

Your logic is horribly flawed. The name of the developer means absolutely nothing, it is the people under that name that matter. Microsoft has done a very good job of consolidating the best of the best from the many acquired companies.

ImprovedMind

Oh the irony(someone post a picture of an iron)...

Insomniac want to 'weasel' away from Sony for the exact same reasons bungie left; they want to develop on more than one platform. :|Ninja-Hippo

Insomniac was never owned by Sony.

They were free to leave Sony well before this generation even started....even before the previous generation started.

And to really drive my point home.....INSOMNIAC still chooses to make Exclusive games for Sony.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Insomniac want to 'weasel' away from Sony for the exact same reasons bungie left; they want to develop on more than one platform. :|Unnatural101

Insomniac was never owned by Sony.

They were free to leave Sony well before this generation even started....even before the previous generation started.

And to really drive my point home.....INSOMNIAC still chooses to make Exclusive games for Sony.

But no, they don't. :? They make Ratchet & Clank and Resistance exclusively for Sony because both franchises are exclusively licensed to them. They are now signed up with EA as a multiplatform developer. So just to summarize your arguments; Microsoft suck because they shut down studios - President of Ensemble says they were a horrible business and he was amazed they weren't shut down sooner. Microsoft suck because bungie left them - bungie left because they want to make multi-platform games, just like Insomniac no longer making games just for Sony. So... er... Ninja-Hippo

I think you've totally misunderstood, or are possibly not totally getting it.

INSOMNIAC was never owned by Sony....never....Not this generation, not the previous generation, and not the previous gen. before that.

Right now, Insomniac recently signed on to make multiplat games that are published by EA....but guess what?

Insomnic is still making exclusive games for Sony....still. Or did you not know RESISTANCE 3 is coming soon?

Get it? They are moonlighting on the side, but still loyal to Sony and giving PS3 games that can't be played anywhere else.

Bungie, on the other hand, they got the heck away from Microsoft as soon as their "slavery term" was up. They went on the first thing smokin to get to Activision. That's how bad it must have been at Microsoft.....Bungie went to ACTIVISION for relief and comfort. :lol:

Not knowing the exact circumstances those studios were closed under, we're in no position to determine that.IronBass

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

[QUOTE="IronBass"]Not knowing the exact circumstances those studios were closed under, we're in no position to determine that.Unnatural101

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

Okay hold up, I dont understand why your compairing Bungie and Naughty Dog. From my understanding, Sony infuses a lot of cash into its studios, ie polyphony and its 60 million dollar budget in gt5, so obviously Naughty Dog doesnt want to leave. Ms has more of loose relationship with its studio, they arent that much invovled. But that doesnt make them incompetant. Also, HAL's games are targetted for nintendo consoles, so why would they want leave. Another thing is youre assuming again, how do you know Bungie left Ms because theyre "incompetant" ? And I dont see Bungie high-tailing it, I thought it was a pretty clean departure.pl4yer_f0und

Just as HAL's games are targeted for Nintendo consoles, Bungie's HALO games were targeted for Microsoft's consoles.

and to the bolded part:

I'm not necessarily saying Bugie left for the reason because Microsoft was incompetant.....rather, what I'm more saying is Microsoft is incompetant because Bungie left....there's actually a subtle but fundamental difference there.

What Sony and Nintendo do or stop doing does not give us any information about the circumstances those studios were closed under.IronBass

We don't need the reasons....We have the end results.

I like "cutting to the chase" ;)

[QUOTE="IronBass"] What Sony and Nintendo do or stop doing does not give us any information about the circumstances those studios were closed under.Unnatural101

We don't need the reasons....We have the end results.

I like "cutting to the chase" ;)

..

Is Microsoft an incompetent game studio manager?

Unnatural101

It seems like it. But there may be things we don't know or have all the info about.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]Not knowing the exact circumstances those studios were closed under, we're in no position to determine that.Unnatural101

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

They have several first party studios that continue to produce quality games. Turn 10, for example, is kicking Polyphony's ass.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] But no, they don't. :? They make Ratchet & Clank and Resistance exclusively for Sony because both franchises are exclusively licensed to them. They are now signed up with EA as a multiplatform developer. So just to summarize your arguments; Microsoft suck because they shut down studios - President of Ensemble says they were a horrible business and he was amazed they weren't shut down sooner. Microsoft suck because bungie left them - bungie left because they want to make multi-platform games, just like Insomniac no longer making games just for Sony. So... er... Unnatural101

I think you've totally misunderstood, or are possibly not totally getting it.

INSOMNIAC was never owned by Sony....never....Not this generation, not the previous generation, and not the previous gen. before that.

Right now, Insomniac recently signed on to make multiplat games that are published by EA....but guess what?

Insomnic is still making exclusive games for Sony....still. Or did you not know RESISTANCE 3 is coming soon?

Get it? They are moonlighting on the side, but still loyal to Sony and giving PS3 games that can't be played anywhere else.

Bungie, on the other hand, they got the heck away from Microsoft as soon as their "slavery term" was up. They went on the first thing smokin to get to Activision. That's how bad it must have been at Microsoft.....Bungie went to ACTIVISION for relief and comfort. :lol:

Pretty sure he's well aware of what he's talking about.

but yeah, that's why Bungie issued a statement claiming that Microsoft deserves respect. and they thanked them for making them into what they are today. must've been real bad.

they didn't want to make Halo for 15 years. not every developer is like Polyphony Digital you know.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] But no, they don't. :? They make Ratchet & Clank and Resistance exclusively for Sony because both franchises are exclusively licensed to them. They are now signed up with EA as a multiplatform developer. So just to summarize your arguments; Microsoft suck because they shut down studios - President of Ensemble says they were a horrible business and he was amazed they weren't shut down sooner. Microsoft suck because bungie left them - bungie left because they want to make multi-platform games, just like Insomniac no longer making games just for Sony. So... er... Unnatural101

I think you've totally misunderstood, or are possibly not totally getting it.

INSOMNIAC was never owned by Sony....never....Not this generation, not the previous generation, and not the previous gen. before that.

Right now, Insomniac recently signed on to make multiplat games that are published by EA....but guess what?

Insomnic is still making exclusive games for Sony....still. Or did you not know RESISTANCE 3 is coming soon?

Get it? They are moonlighting on the side, but still loyal to Sony and giving PS3 games that can't be played anywhere else.

Bungie, on the other hand, they got the heck away from Microsoft as soon as their "slavery term" was up. They went on the first thing smokin to get to Activision. That's how bad it must have been at Microsoft.....Bungie went to ACTIVISION for relief and comfort. :lol:

Incompetent implies they are incapable of doing it, I think they simply just don't care about it.UpJTBoogie

[QUOTE="IronBass"]Not knowing the exact circumstances those studios were closed under, we're in no position to determine that.Unnatural101

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

[QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"]Not knowing the exact circumstances those studios were closed under, we're in no position to determine that.clone01

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

No one needs to be an "industry insider" to know that MIcrosoft has lost many Game development studios this generation,

and Sony and Nintendo have not.

No "insider" required. ;)

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

Unnatural101

No one needs to be an "industry insider" to know that MIcrosoft has lost many Game development studios this generation,

and Sony and Nintendo have not.

No "insider" required. ;)

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

Unnatural101

No one needs to be an "industry insider" to know that MIcrosoft has lost many Game development studios this generation,

and Sony and Nintendo have not.

No "insider" required. ;)

I think what pisses me off the most is that Microsoft bought Rare for over $300 million dollars to produce top quality games. Now they are making simple baby Kinect games with no depth to them. If you're going to make an elite dev like Rare make a Kinect game at least make something better than a wii sports clone.

I don't think shutting studios down through choice counts as losing them.Ravensmash

If they had studios, and then one day they stopped having them, then yes....that counts as losing studios. I'm not interested in the reasons....I'm interested in the results.

Microsoft has lost many studios this generation,

Conversely, Sony and Nintendo have not.

Microsoft is less than its direct peers when it comes to keeping studios.

Since I don't think anyone here runs a game development house, I'm not sure anyone can make that call.

Yes. Very. They should have worked around the clock to bring RARE back to their former glory, instead....

If RARE went back to being the amazing developers they were during the 5th generation, (probably never going to happen) I'd go with microsoft next gen.