Is Microsoft an incompetent game studio manager?

just FYI Rare went down hill with Nintendo not MS...thats why Nintendo sold Rare

gamer-adam1

If they had studios, and then one day they stopped having them, then yes....that counts as losing studios. I'm not interested in the reasons....I'm interested in the results.

Unnatural101

"Losing" implies they were trying to keep them, and somehow failed. Which you have absolutely zero proof of.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] I don't think shutting studios down through choice counts as losing them.Unnatural101

If they had studios, and then one day they stopped having them, then yes....that counts as losing studios. I'm not interested in the reasons....I'm interested in the results.

Microsoft has lost many studios this generation,

Conversely, Sony and Nintendo have not.

Microsoft is less than its direct peers when it comes to keeping studios.

G..G...Gamtrix? is that you? i told you not to ban dodge!

[QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] I don't think shutting studios down through choice counts as losing them.HailedJohnDman

If they had studios, and then one day they stopped having them, then yes....that counts as losing studios. I'm not interested in the reasons....I'm interested in the results.

Microsoft has lost many studios this generation,

Conversely, Sony and Nintendo have not.

Microsoft is less than its direct peers when it comes to keeping studios.

G..G...Gamtrix? is that you? i told you not to ban dodge!

not getting the vibe tbh.

got to be someone else.

Ironic how while Sony was losing tons of money, they still did not shut even one developer studio while Microsoft was making profit and did do such.

MS's current CEO is the only incompetent person at Microsoft.

Ironic how while Sony was losing tons of money, they still did not shut even one developer studio while Microsoft was making profit and did do such.

RadecSupreme

I think they know how, they just dont care because Xbox Live as turned into a billion dollar business. If you were making a billion dollars, would you care? I admit, its bad for us gamers, im just sayin.Kokuro_Kun

"Turned into a billion dollar business" doesn't really translate well into monetary terms.

Of course, they also had better situations during the rest of the year.

They can barely hold themselves on the break even point, it's not really an excuse for them to law low on the gaming scene.

[QUOTE="pl4yer_f0und"] Okay hold up, I dont understand why your compairing Bungie and Naughty Dog. From my understanding, Sony infuses a lot of cash into its studios, ie polyphony and its 60 million dollar budget in gt5, so obviously Naughty Dog doesnt want to leave. Ms has more of loose relationship with its studio, they arent that much invovled. But that doesnt make them incompetant. Also, HAL's games are targetted for nintendo consoles, so why would they want leave. Another thing is youre assuming again, how do you know Bungie left Ms because theyre "incompetant" ? And I dont see Bungie high-tailing it, I thought it was a pretty clean departure.Unnatural101

Just as HAL's games are targeted for Nintendo consoles, Bungie's HALO games were targeted for Microsoft's consoles.

and to the bolded part:

I'm not necessarily saying Bugie left for the reason because Microsoft was incompetant.....rather, what I'm more saying is Microsoft is incompetant because Bungie left....there's actually a subtle but fundamental difference there.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] But no, they don't. :? They make Ratchet & Clank and Resistance exclusively for Sony because both franchises are exclusively licensed to them. They are now signed up with EA as a multiplatform developer. So just to summarize your arguments; Microsoft suck because they shut down studios - President of Ensemble says they were a horrible business and he was amazed they weren't shut down sooner. Microsoft suck because bungie left them - bungie left because they want to make multi-platform games, just like Insomniac no longer making games just for Sony. So... er... Unnatural101

I think you've totally misunderstood, or are possibly not totally getting it.

INSOMNIAC was never owned by Sony....never....Not this generation, not the previous generation, and not the previous gen. before that.

Right now, Insomniac recently signed on to make multiplat games that are published by EA....but guess what?

Insomnic is still making exclusive games for Sony....still. Or did you not know RESISTANCE 3 is coming soon?

Get it? They are moonlighting on the side, but still loyal to Sony and giving PS3 games that can't be played anywhere else.

Bungie, on the other hand, they got the heck away from Microsoft as soon as their "slavery term" was up. They went on the first thing smokin to get to Activision. That's how bad it must have been at Microsoft.....Bungie went to ACTIVISION for relief and comfort. :lol:

Ironic how while Sony was losing tons of money, they still did not shut even one developer studio while Microsoft was making profit and did do such.

RadecSupreme

Sony's focus is on their First party development as it should be, it took them more than a decade to cultivate it. Every studio that they bought with the exception of Naughty Dog and Guerilla no longer exist as individual identities. If it were MS that was doing this people would be screaming about how evil they are. Incidentally practically every studio that Microsoft has bought has retained their individuality until they were either bought or dissolved.

This thread is like saying Sony is incompetent because they decided to shrug off online focus and continue to do things they way they have been doing for years with developing a first party system. They are just approaching they way they supply content to their systems differently.

As much as PS3 fanboys love to brag about exclusives, one could say (Not me) that Microsoft went in a more forward thinking direction than Sony with it's focus on online development (for good or ill). It's certainly been the more significant path this gen.

Microsoft..... can I please have a new Perfect Dark? please?

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

Ironic how while Sony was losing tons of money, they still did not shut even one developer studio while Microsoft was making profit and did do such.

Sony's focus is on their First party development as it should be, it took them more than a decade to cultivate it. Every studio that they bought with the exception of Naughty Dog and Guerilla no longer exist as individual identities. If it were MS that was doing this people would be screaming about how evil they are. Incidentally practically every studio that Microsoft has bought has retained their individuality until they were either bought or dissolved.

This thread is like saying Sony is incompetent because they decided to shrug off online focus and continue to do things they way they have been doing for years with developing a first party system. They are just approaching they way they supply content to their systems differently.

As much as PS3 fanboys love to brag about exclusives, one could say (Not me) that Microsoft went in a more forward thinking direction than Sony with it's focus on online development (for good or ill). It's certainly been the more significant path this gen.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

Ironic how while Sony was losing tons of money, they still did not shut even one developer studio while Microsoft was making profit and did do such.

edo-tensei

Sony's focus is on their First party development as it should be, it took them more than a decade to cultivate it. Every studio that they bought with the exception of Naughty Dog and Guerilla no longer exist as individual identities. If it were MS that was doing this people would be screaming about how evil they are. Incidentally practically every studio that Microsoft has bought has retained their individuality until they were either bought or dissolved.

This thread is like saying Sony is incompetent because they decided to shrug off online focus and continue to do things they way they have been doing for years with developing a first party system. They are just approaching they way they supply content to their systems differently.

As much as PS3 fanboys love to brag about exclusives, one could say (Not me) that Microsoft went in a more forward thinking direction than Sony with it's focus on online development (for good or ill). It's certainly been the more significant path this gen.

If you want to argue that its both the PS3 and 360 who are guilty of this. Even then I don't see why its a fact that this gen is worse then last.

Microsoft's in a comfortable position as of now. As a business, they have no reason to care how many people lose their jobs, how little games they have compared to the competition, or what SW thinks of them because they're making tons of money on whatever they make on their systems. From a gamer's perspective, that's laughable, but from a business standpoint, they don't have to move until they think it's necessary. DethSkematik

Very true, as important as many people in SW think their opinion is...it's really not very important to the heads of MS. In fact its pretty damn insignificant. MS is doing better profit wise this gen than they expected, so they are more than happy with their place atm. I'm sure of it.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="heretrix"]You are conveniently forgetting that most of Sony's first party studios have already had their original development houses shuttered, reorganized and absorbed into new Sony corporate development studios well before the current recession and all have or had major games in the pipeline during the launch of the PS3.The games have all been pretty much successful so why would they close?

Sony's focus is on their First party development as it should be, it took them more than a decade to cultivate it. Every studio that they bought with the exception of Naughty Dog and Guerilla no longer exist as individual identities. If it were MS that was doing this people would be screaming about how evil they are. Incidentally practically every studio that Microsoft has bought has retained their individuality until they were either bought or dissolved.

This thread is like saying Sony is incompetent because they decided to shrug off online focus and continue to do things they way they have been doing for years with developing a first party system. They are just approaching they way they supply content to their systems differently.

As much as PS3 fanboys love to brag about exclusives, one could say (Not me) that Microsoft went in a more forward thinking direction than Sony with it's focus on online development (for good or ill). It's certainly been the more significant path this gen.

If you want to argue that its both the PS3 and 360 who are guilty of this. Even then I don't see why its a fact that this gen is worse then last.

yes , i know what you mean , they have done nothing since 2007 , and that scares me ,

ya they got 3 exclusives in 10 but none of them interist me ne more ,

and rare has went down hill period i dont need to explain why,

they only do good at their n64 ports starting with diddy kong racing on the ds -the ds people

-so much for rare not workin for nintendo ne more

lol

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

Ironic how while Sony was losing tons of money, they still did not shut even one developer studio while Microsoft was making profit and did do such.

edo-tensei

Sony's focus is on their First party development as it should be, it took them more than a decade to cultivate it. Every studio that they bought with the exception of Naughty Dog and Guerilla no longer exist as individual identities. If it were MS that was doing this people would be screaming about how evil they are. Incidentally practically every studio that Microsoft has bought has retained their individuality until they were either bought or dissolved.

This thread is like saying Sony is incompetent because they decided to shrug off online focus and continue to do things they way they have been doing for years with developing a first party system. They are just approaching they way they supply content to their systems differently.

As much as PS3 fanboys love to brag about exclusives, one could say (Not me) that Microsoft went in a more forward thinking direction than Sony with it's focus on online development (for good or ill). It's certainly been the more significant path this gen.

That in itself is an opinion.Especially since it doesn't happen with all games and not everyone is releasing unfinished crap..There have always been unpolished mediocre games. At least now you do have the option to patch it.

incompetent isn't the right word.

they certainly are capable.

apathetic is the more appropriate adjective to describe microsoft's approach to studios this gen. which is regrettable, Xbox had some really good games. by MGS

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] I don't think shutting studios down through choice counts as losing them.Unnatural101

If they had studios, and then one day they stopped having them, then yes....that counts as losing studios. I'm not interested in the reasons....I'm interested in the results.

Microsoft has lost many studios this generation,

Conversely, Sony and Nintendo have not.

Microsoft is less than its direct peers when it comes to keeping studios.

And anyway, am I the only one who always finds it hilarious when people think that their opinion in System Wars is going to make a developer or publisher or console manufacturer lose money. Microsoft is making money and they'll continue to make money; if they're doing that, then they're doing everything they've set out to do. If you think they have or had any other goal in mind, you're just naive.

(Edited for typos.)

[QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] But no, they don't. :? They make Ratchet & Clank and Resistance exclusively for Sony because both franchises are exclusively licensed to them. They are now signed up with EA as a multiplatform developer. So just to summarize your arguments; Microsoft suck because they shut down studios - President of Ensemble says they were a horrible business and he was amazed they weren't shut down sooner. Microsoft suck because bungie left them - bungie left because they want to make multi-platform games, just like Insomniac no longer making games just for Sony. So... er... edo-tensei

I think you've totally misunderstood, or are possibly not totally getting it.

INSOMNIAC was never owned by Sony....never....Not this generation, not the previous generation, and not the previous gen. before that.

Right now, Insomniac recently signed on to make multiplat games that are published by EA....but guess what?

Insomnic is still making exclusive games for Sony....still. Or did you not know RESISTANCE 3 is coming soon?

Get it? They are moonlighting on the side, but still loyal to Sony and giving PS3 games that can't be played anywhere else.

Bungie, on the other hand, they got the heck away from Microsoft as soon as their "slavery term" was up. They went on the first thing smokin to get to Activision. That's how bad it must have been at Microsoft.....Bungie went to ACTIVISION for relief and comfort. :lol:

Wait, so Insomniac was owned by Sony?

Oh right...they weren't.

So Sony never lost Insomniac in the first place....Sony never owned them.

So you are incorrect....I'm not wrong on this count.

Microsoft is the one that lost Bungie since Bungie left Microsoft for Activision.

Perhaps you are not understanding the difference between first party and 3rd party developers.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

I think you've totally misunderstood, or are possibly not totally getting it.

INSOMNIAC was never owned by Sony....never....Not this generation, not the previous generation, and not the previous gen. before that.

Right now, Insomniac recently signed on to make multiplat games that are published by EA....but guess what?

Insomnic is still making exclusive games for Sony....still. Or did you not know RESISTANCE 3 is coming soon?

Get it? They are moonlighting on the side, but still loyal to Sony and giving PS3 games that can't be played anywhere else.

Bungie, on the other hand, they got the heck away from Microsoft as soon as their "slavery term" was up. They went on the first thing smokin to get to Activision. That's how bad it must have been at Microsoft.....Bungie went to ACTIVISION for relief and comfort. :lol:

Unnatural101

Wait, so Insomniac was owned by Sony?

Oh right...they weren't.

So Sony never lost Insomniac in the first place....Sony never owned them.

So you are incorrect....I'm not wrong on this count.

Microsoft is the one that lost Bungie since Bungie left Microsoft for Activision.

Perhaps you are not understanding the difference between first party and 3rd party developers.

microsoft was all about the hardcore until nintendo showed them the casuals and its been downhill from there. i hate them and they piss me off but they know exactly what their doing for money. it pisses me off that they make a great console and destroy it just for money

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

I think you've totally misunderstood, or are possibly not totally getting it.

INSOMNIAC was never owned by Sony....never....Not this generation, not the previous generation, and not the previous gen. before that.

Right now, Insomniac recently signed on to make multiplat games that are published by EA....but guess what?

Insomnic is still making exclusive games for Sony....still. Or did you not know RESISTANCE 3 is coming soon?

Get it? They are moonlighting on the side, but still loyal to Sony and giving PS3 games that can't be played anywhere else.

Bungie, on the other hand, they got the heck away from Microsoft as soon as their "slavery term" was up. They went on the first thing smokin to get to Activision. That's how bad it must have been at Microsoft.....Bungie went to ACTIVISION for relief and comfort. :lol:

Wait, so Insomniac was owned by Sony?

Oh right...they weren't.

So Sony never lost Insomniac in the first place....Sony never owned them.

So you are incorrect....I'm not wrong on this count.

Microsoft is the one that lost Bungie since Bungie left Microsoft for Activision.

Perhaps you are not understanding the difference between first party and 3rd party developers.

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

Ironic how while Sony was losing tons of money, they still did not shut even one developer studio while Microsoft was making profit and did do such.

heretrix

Sony's focus is on their First party development as it should be, it took them more than a decade to cultivate it. Every studio that they bought with the exception of Naughty Dog and Guerilla no longer exist as individual identities. If it were MS that was doing this people would be screaming about how evil they are. Incidentally practically every studio that Microsoft has bought has retained their individuality until they were either bought or dissolved.

This thread is like saying Sony is incompetent because they decided to shrug off online focus and continue to do things they way they have been doing for years with developing a first party system. They are just approaching they way they supply content to their systems differently.

As much as PS3 fanboys love to brag about exclusives, one could say (Not me) that Microsoft went in a more forward thinking direction than Sony with it's focus on online development (for good or ill). It's certainly been the more significant path this gen.

I dont know about what you believe. but its pretty obvious that its worse to lose your job than for your development studio to lose identity. If this is a way to justify what Microsoft did with its studios then you are failing.

I reckon the bigger question is - why do cows insist on making topics asking these rhetorical questions of MS and 360 owners? Seriously, you guys make more anti MS topics than you do pro Sony ones.

Can you explain this? I'm relatively intruiged. I mean, you must be getting something out of the incessant slandering? Most of you don't own 360's, so its lack of exclusives doesn't affect you.

Yet it always seems to be the same 5-10 cows who post all these topics...are you guize all trolls or what?

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

If it helps the argument then the recession actually never happend. He forgot that the head of Ensemble actually said he wasn't surprised they were shut down, FASA had been imcompetent for years, He forgot that Microsoft let bungie go *Bungie paid out no money on last check and never squirmed* but just by Him using words as squirm and wiggled we can tell exactly the source of his topic and its not fair debate.

Unnatural101

I don't see Naughty Dog trying to weasel their way out from Sony.

no, but you did see the Warhawk and twisted metal devs weasel their way out of sony

Microsoft should buy Sony and have them manage their first-party game studios. That would be hilarious.

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Unnatural101"]

We know that Microsoft can't keep game development studios, but Sony and Nintendo can.

That's what we are in a "position to determine".

Unnatural101

No one needs to be an "industry insider" to know that MIcrosoft has lost many Game development studios this generation,

and Sony and Nintendo have not.

No "insider" required. ;)

Apparently I was dreaming when SCEE killed The Getaway & 8 Days, laying people off and zapping half the London crew, while redeploying a bunch of the rest on Home.

I was also dreaming when SCEE killed off half the Liverpool staff.

And when SCEA reduced and consolidated in America.

And Incognito going defunct.

And when they layed off people at SOE San Diego in 2009. And again the same place in summer 2010.

Yep, none of those things happened. I musta dreamt them all.

The only difference between Sony and MS is the way in which they are structured.Many SCE studios don't have a distinct identity. Sony whacks half the staff, cancels a project etc, but technically the studio remains. MS treats them all as seperate distinct entities and closes them. The end result is the same: people lose their jobs and projects get cancelled.