Is Modern Warfare 2 an "arcade shooter"?

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FrozenLiquid

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#51 FrozenLiquid
Member since 2007 • 13555 Posts

not really...it worked in theory.. they just didn't have the enemy variety to really take advantage of it. After awhile they were all the same people and you know what the trick was to all of them. COD lacks that umph, feedback. Especially compared to Bad COmpany, and i like Killzone 2s feel more than COD. Halo i'd just like something more to it than what it is now. SOmething that is more fun, to me the worst part of Halo games are the corridor shootouts...the game just doesn't excell in that area say like...a Fear. jg4xchamp

Gunplay to me is the gratification you get from just the pure combat in any game system, regardless of any other part of the game design. The best way a developer described it, or at least a developer tried to emphasize it, was when Criterion said all they wanted to do was make shooting fun in Black. I think that's why we keep saying Half Life has some decent gameplay, but when it comes to gunplay, it's weak. The presentation is amazing, level design focussed and the small puzzle elements are very welcome which makes the overall gameplay great. But shooting someone or something just doesn't feel great. By right, shooting grunts and jackals shouldn't hold up this well in just under a decade, and same with CoD enemies. I think it's the overall gameplay that affects them i.e Halo level design or CoD's respawning enemies, which, by the way, was incredibly annoying in the ****ing favelas. Thanks for the mini sandboxes IW. But **** you for the annoying respawns.

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skrat_01

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#52 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

Only Half-Life has weak gunplay

FrozenLiquid
I'd say Half Life 2's combat in general is. The firsts, is certainly good. Though Half Life 2 isn't exactly an straightforward fps anyway. Still considering how good Left 4 Dead's (especially the second) is, particularly the feedback, hopefully there will be improvements. Oh as far as location damage goes there are plenty of tactical shooters that have done so. Problem is most are stat modifiers - accuracy decrease, speed decrease, forced prone. Games like Red Orchestra did it rather well - dropping your weapon and all. Saying that I thought Dead Space's was very well implemented. Added an extra something to shooting moving creatures, crippling them rather than just 'shoot it in the head' in most homicidal unintelligent melee creatures vs you shooters.
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FrozenLiquid

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#53 FrozenLiquid
Member since 2007 • 13555 Posts

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Only Half-Life has weak gunplay

skrat_01

I'd say Half Life 2's combat in general is. The firsts, is certainly good. Though Half Life 2 isn't exactly an straightforward fps anyway. Still considering how good Left 4 Dead's (especially the second) is, particularly the feedback, hopefully there will be improvements. Oh as far as location damage goes there are plenty of tactical shooters that have done so. Problem is most are stat modifiers - accuracy decrease, speed decrease, forced prone. Games like Red Orchestra did it rather well - dropping your weapon and all. Saying that I thought Dead Space's was very well implemented. Added an extra something to shooting moving creatures, crippling them rather than just 'shoot it in the head' in most homicidal unintelligent melee creatures vs you shooters.

Yeah to clarify I can just open up the original HL or Opposing Force and have fun with the game. For some reason HL2 felt like a chore the second time through, like it was almost a sort of bittersweet gift to have that several minutes of storytelling in a safe haven before having to go off and do it all again. Now see if HL2 was made of the win that was the final moments of Episode Two that would've been a different story altogether.

I thought Dead Space was decent up until the point where all you're doing is killing the guy with a few more shots than usual. I know tactical shooters have emphasized more on location damage, and I think SWAT 4 did it too, where you had to incapacitate rather than eliminate. But I'd love a FPS that thought a little more out of the ordinary, and location damage was just one of them. What if you could totally change the behaviour of an A.I or others around him by shooting him in the leg instead of the face? Being a sadistic torturer by shooting their limbs and making the others watch/listen which could potentially make them panic? Or if you were doing headshots all the way through, how about them donning better head gear simply because you've been headshotting throughout the entire game? Then there are the usual things like if you shot them in the arm they couldn't use their weapons or if you shot them in the leg they couldn't run, or run as fast.

That, or just make a game inspired by the underground mines bit in Episode One. I love the whole buddy thing. Maybe they should make a game where you're Stephen Hawking and you hire a hitman to help you terrorize the world after watching those episodes of Family Guy. And you have to tell him who to shoot and how to shoot and how to push you around because you can't do it yourself.

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jg4xchamp

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#54 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]not really...it worked in theory.. they just didn't have the enemy variety to really take advantage of it. After awhile they were all the same people and you know what the trick was to all of them. COD lacks that umph, feedback. Especially compared to Bad COmpany, and i like Killzone 2s feel more than COD. Halo i'd just like something more to it than what it is now. SOmething that is more fun, to me the worst part of Halo games are the corridor shootouts...the game just doesn't excell in that area say like...a Fear. FrozenLiquid

Gunplay to me is the gratification you get from just the pure combat in any game system, regardless of any other part of the game design. The best way a developer described it, or at least a developer tried to emphasize it, was when Criterion said all they wanted to do was make shooting fun in Black. I think that's why we keep saying Half Life has some decent gameplay, but when it comes to gunplay, it's weak. The presentation is amazing, level design focussed and the small puzzle elements are very welcome which makes the overall gameplay great. But shooting someone or something just doesn't feel great. By right, shooting grunts and jackals shouldn't hold up this well in just under a decade, and same with CoD enemies. I think it's the overall gameplay that affects them i.e Halo level design or CoD's respawning enemies, which, by the way, was incredibly annoying in the ****ing favelas. Thanks for the mini sandboxes IW. But **** you for the annoying respawns.

I hated that running down the mountain after you have that computer download. I hated that in COD 4...i didn't want to do that crap again. So freakin annoying.

The shooting could still be a lot better in COD and Halo. Especially when it is a lot better in other shooters :P.

Now as for Dead Space I enjoyed the gunplay, the repetition, the horrible boss fights, the obvious Kendra did it plot line. They pulled an Ubisoft. Had a great concept, and then screwed up on the execution here and there.

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skrat_01

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#55 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

Yeah to clarify I can just open up the original HL or Opposing Force and have fun with the game. For some reason HL2 felt like a chore the second time through, like it was almost a sort of bittersweet gift to have that several minutes of storytelling in a safe haven before having to go off and do it all again. Now see if HL2 was made of the win that was the final moments of Episode Two that would've been a different story altogether.

I thought Dead Space was decent up until the point where all you're doing is killing the guy with a few more shots than usual. I know tactical shooters have emphasized more on location damage, and I think SWAT 4 did it too, where you had to incapacitate rather than eliminate. But I'd love a FPS that thought a little more out of the ordinary, and location damage was just one of them. What if you could totally change the behaviour of an A.I or others around him by shooting him in the leg instead of the face? Being a sadistic torturer by shooting their limbs and making the others watch/listen which could potentially make them panic? Or if you were doing headshots all the way through, how about them donning better head gear simply because you've been headshotting throughout the entire game? Then there are the usual things like if you shot them in the arm they couldn't use their weapons or if you shot them in the leg they couldn't run, or run as fast.

That, or just make a game inspired by the underground mines bit in Episode One. I love the whole buddy thing. Maybe they should make a game where you're Stephen Hawking and you hire a hitman to help you terrorize the world after watching those episodes of Family Guy. And you have to tell him who to shoot and how to shoot and how to push you around because you can't do it yourself.

FrozenLiquid

Honestly I still find Half Life 2 plays very well to this day, to the degree where the Episodes seem rather poor and uninspiring in comaprison. Really lack the scope, variety and creativity behind them, though Ep2 does have sharp storytelling.

I do agree with you that something like the ending in Episode 2 injected into the game would have been great. While Half Life 2 really is built up of gameplay shifting setpieces to add variety, a combat scenario that gives you such freedom would have been fantastic.

Which is the big problem I have with the Episodes, so much of it is baby steps, the ending of episode 2 is well, the biggest design change (aside from Alyx's improved companion a.i.).

Yeah I concur, a shooter that did something like that would be something interesting to see.

I think the first of the failed Sin Episode series did something kind of similar in tracking your skill - head shots etc. and balanced the game accordingly...

I agree I would like to take it one step further, and have the a.i. react accordingly. You shoot a guys legs - will his comrades try and help him - me a brutal barstard, will they fall back? I really think there needs to be more human reactions to a.i. than just combat patterns. Really is why I liked SWAT4 so much - the a.i. behaved in a very real way - they pretended to drop their weapons, ran away in panic, and pulled guns on you when you thought you had disarmed them.

People are unpredictable, give an A.i. enough variables and I guess they can be too, problem is making it convincing.

Otherwise a game based around buddy a.i. would be intruiging - especially not having the direct ability to do so, but being able to issue commands.
Personally i'd just like to see games, specifically shooters deal with failure differently. I'm a bit tired of the usual linear progression of level and game structure - you fail X objective, game ends. Failure can be interesting, especially looking at games like Mount & Blade, the game just keeps going.

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Darthmatt

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#56 Darthmatt
Member since 2002 • 8970 Posts

No. Go play Serious Sam or Unreal tournament and compare the difference.

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jg4xchamp

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#57 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts
I got to throw sticky bombs at Striders. I was happy :) The parts before that strider battle. were ok it's half life 2. maybe a bit more elaborate on the combat/set pieces...but it was as Skrat put it...uninspired. also....if i have to put up with one more bad vehicle section...i will shoot someone. Either make the vehicle sections fun, or don't use them.
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#58 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts

No. Go play Serious Sam or Unreal tournament and compare the difference.

Darthmatt
that those games are more fun? :shock:
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#59 xYamatox
Member since 2005 • 5180 Posts

I think the problem with MW2 is mostly the assist the game gives you. I'm not just talking about aim assist, but lots of other things.

For single player for example, there is NEVER a situation where you are by yourself. You always have a partner there to help kill off the waves of enemies, to show you the way to the next checkpoint, to inform you of a "powerful weapon" nearby, etc. You, as the player, hardly have to search for ANYTHING, since the game practically points out everything for you.

Multiplayer is a whole different beast. Between all the killstreak/deathstreak rewards (which practically play the game for you), weapon attachment that pinpoint enemies for you (Heartbeat Sensor/Thermal Scopes), no recoil in the guns, the overall aim assist (a little is never bad, but it's just too much), not to mention the new addition to secondary weapons (Full auto Shotguns, and duel machine pistols as a BACKUP weapon?!). I find it funny people even brag about being "Teh uber l33t" at MW2, since an 8 year old could be just as good in a weeks play.

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#60 mr-krinkles
Member since 2008 • 1641 Posts

I played MW2 for the first time last night with a friend. We played the split screen co-op mode. Yes it felt very arcady - not that that's a bad thing.

The lulz was he bought the game the day it was released. First time I played with him, at the end of the game I had 42 kills and he had 40. Heehee, an example of the tr00 gamer vs the casual.

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#61 AdrianWerner
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts

No. Go play Serious Sam or Unreal tournament and compare the difference.

Darthmatt

Actualy recent CoDs have felt very much like Serious Sam.