Is PC elitism justifiable?

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jedikevin2

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#101 jedikevin2
Member since 2004 • 5263 Posts

Except we don't see very many of those threads. What we do see is "Keyboard and mice are better", "consolization is ruining everything", et cetera et cetera. Rude is just a word I use as anything harsher is against rules.AncientDozer

You have not been in System Wars long enough then. Infact, go hunt down this TC's threads in System wars. For a time, we had some offhand anti Pc thread every day if not 5-6 a day. System wars works in cyles. I don't know who you speak of as "we".

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ActicEdge

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#103 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

With elitism I don't mean complaints that some games are poorly optimized for the PC interface but rather the constant complaints that come from certain PC gamers about "consolization", "dumbing down for the console public" and ever outright hate towards consoles and console games.

In some extreme cases, some PC gamers seem to hate certain games just because they are from a console background and look down on consoles and console gamers.

I think such elitism is ridiculous and I wouldn't consider anyone saying or doing this to be a real gamer.

Discuss.

KHAndAnime

It's not like we're on some equal playing field here, the PC has superior hardware and controls for many genres - obviously people find that the PC is vastly superior to consoles and are annoyed if the standards of their games are lowered because of console games. PC "Elitism" is justified.

They're not "YOUR" games. You have no ownership or entitlement to them.

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tenaka2

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#105 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Console gamers like simple easy flashy games that can be completed in a rental period.

These games sell best.

i dont see the confusion.

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ChubbyGuy40

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#106 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="nameless12345"]

With elitism I don't mean complaints that some games are poorly optimized for the PC interface but rather the constant complaints that come from certain PC gamers about "consolization", "dumbing down for the console public" and ever outright hate towards consoles and console games.

In some extreme cases, some PC gamers seem to hate certain games just because they are from a console background and look down on consoles and console gamers.

I think such elitism is ridiculous and I wouldn't consider anyone saying or doing this to be a real gamer.

Discuss.

ActicEdge

It's not like we're on some equal playing field here, the PC has superior hardware and controls for many genres - obviously people find that the PC is vastly superior to consoles and are annoyed if the standards of their games are lowered because of console games. PC "Elitism" is justified.

They're not "YOUR" games. You have no ownership or entitlement to them.

Yes they are. This isn't OnLive. We bought a unique identifier to play a copy of a game a developer created. We own that copy. We, however, do not own the actual game itself. Just a copy a publisher put on sale.

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jedikevin2

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#107 jedikevin2
Member since 2004 • 5263 Posts

[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]

[QUOTE="AncientDozer"]

Except we don't see very many of those threads. What we do see is "Keyboard and mice are better", "consolization is ruining everything", et cetera et cetera. Rude is just a word I use as anything harsher is against rules.AncientDozer

You have not been in System Wars long enough then. Infact, go hunt down this TC's threads in System wars. For a time, we had some offhand anti Pc thread every day if not 5-6 a day. System wars works in cyles. I don't know who you speak of as "we".

I've been here for quite a while and like I said before, you'll see a couple of threads by consolites but you'll see at minimum twice as much by PC gamers ranting about consolization. It's been going on pretty fierce for months. How superior PCs are to consoles. There was a day where there were five separate posts by five separate people (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't the same person) about how keyboards and mice were superior and how console gamers can only wish they had them. The next day after that, there were threads about how mods "destroyed" consoles. Cycles? Maybe. But I'm more inclined to believe it a near constant where we sometimes are lucky to have a drought.

And 9+ months ago when members were throwing out hourly anti pc threads there was no problem. Its system wars. Things come in cycles. Just how it is. If you really look back and analyse this forum, you will see its even. Its just that the anti Pc threads get more fanfare just like this thread is slowlying going up in pages.

I don't feel like looking pages back but you can just start looking back on this forum this generation... You would actually be amazed. In the end it goes nowhere. Anti threads come All the time jsut as X is better then Y comes up. Oh well, its your inclination. Benn here far to long to cherry pick on threads. It is what it is on system wars.

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madsnakehhh

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#108 madsnakehhh
Member since 2007 • 18368 Posts

No, is not justifiable, specially when PC gamers talk like if only they knew what Video games are all about, you just don't get it, and you don't know what you are missing, everything you play is garbage compared to the glorious games in PC.:roll:

Yeah, i truly hate this kind of elitism, maybe even more than console fanboism.

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madsnakehhh

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#109 madsnakehhh
Member since 2007 • 18368 Posts

Console gamers like simple easy flashy games that can be completed in a rental period.

These games sell best.

i dont see the confusion.

tenaka2

Yeah, because Zelda and Demon's Souls can be beaten in a couple of days, however Crysis will last you for years (since it's the only game they seem to talk), oh but guess what, it only last me a weekend.

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ChubbyGuy40

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#110 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Console gamers like simple easy flashy games that can be completed in a rental period.

These games sell best.

i dont see the confusion.

madsnakehhh

Yeah, because Zelda and Demon's Souls can be beaten in a couple of days, however Crysis will last you for years (since it's the only game they seem to talk), oh but guess what, it only last me a weekend.

Sucks for you. I still go back and play a little Crysis now and then. Same with Zelda game.

Its totally justifiable. We're trying to get devs to push forward and not fall backwards into the console crowd. Its no worse than console elitism. Apparently spreading the truth = elitism, wrong, and console haters on these forums.

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mitu123

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#111 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

I kinda hate that some PC gamers think their better then everyone else.

lordreaven

I thought we were.:P

We got better rigs therefore we are better.;)

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KHAndAnime

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#112 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="nameless12345"]

With elitism I don't mean complaints that some games are poorly optimized for the PC interface but rather the constant complaints that come from certain PC gamers about "consolization", "dumbing down for the console public" and ever outright hate towards consoles and console games.

In some extreme cases, some PC gamers seem to hate certain games just because they are from a console background and look down on consoles and console gamers.

I think such elitism is ridiculous and I wouldn't consider anyone saying or doing this to be a real gamer.

Discuss.

ActicEdge

It's not like we're on some equal playing field here, the PC has superior hardware and controls for many genres - obviously people find that the PC is vastly superior to consoles and are annoyed if the standards of their games are lowered because of console games. PC "Elitism" is justified.

They're not "YOUR" games. You have no ownership or entitlement to them.

:lol: They're the games we play. What's your point?
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Upparoom

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#113 Upparoom
Member since 2010 • 2111 Posts

[QUOTE="Upparoom"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

You know what, this word thoroughly pisses me off. Its not my damned fault that developers acknowledge that people who enjoy consoles are a good market and want to make games appeal to them too. Its also not my damned fault that it happens to be "your" games.Get over yourselves, please, that word is the definition of elitism.

ActicEdge

Developers wanting to appeal to a console market is understandable; nothing is wrong with wanting to make money. It's when the PC versions are set up in a way that inconveniences PC gamers is when the complaints start. These people have paid more and simply just want to get at least some of their money's worth.

The word consolization is elitist. It implies there is a problem with having a console or being similar to a console. when PC gamers blame others for console gamers for casualizing and consolizing there they are being incredibly obnoxious. Guess what, its not my fault developers are compromising "your" games and are not giving you the experience "you" want because you paid more money. That's not "my" problem or fault, why exactly is there this overwhelming will to try and "make" it so? As I said, get over yourself.

Did I ever say that I'm blaming console gamers for mishandled PC games or that I owned the rights to the games? Did anybody :|? People don't like purchasing crappy products period. Games designed with consoles in mind that are ported to the PC with no effort generally end up being crappy products. Can you blame people for wanting devs to create games that take advantage of the hundreds of dollars they've forked out?

Say Nintendo announced a cross platform game for the DS, Gamecube, and Wii. How would you like it if the Wii version was the one that sucked and didn't work properly?

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madsnakehhh

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#114 madsnakehhh
Member since 2007 • 18368 Posts

[QUOTE="madsnakehhh"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Console gamers like simple easy flashy games that can be completed in a rental period.

These games sell best.

i dont see the confusion.

ChubbyGuy40

Yeah, because Zelda and Demon's Souls can be beaten in a couple of days, however Crysis will last you for years (since it's the only game they seem to talk), oh but guess what, it only last me a weekend.

Sucks for you. I still go back and play a little Crysis now and then. Same with Zelda game.

Its totally justifiable. We're trying to get devs to push forward and not fall backwards into the console crowd. Its no worse than console elitism. Apparently spreading the truth = elitism, wrong, and console haters on these forums.

Well, to be fair, i was generalizing, just like he did.

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tenaka2

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#115 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

True gaming is pc gaming, console gaming is for the casual masses. Nasty but true.

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flashn00b

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#116 flashn00b
Member since 2006 • 3961 Posts

I could be considered a PC elitist, though this is because I constantly get annoyed by those who think that console gaming is the master race. So, i am forced to push back.

Also, at least I can play Dead Space 2 at any given location with a stationary power source due to gaming laptop.

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romans828_2002

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#118 romans828_2002
Member since 2003 • 1108 Posts

True gaming is pc gaming, console gaming is for the casual masses. Nasty but true.

tenaka2
Like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Solitaire, Zuma, Minesweeper? Those aren't for the casual masses? Please. True gaming is an appreciation for what all platforms deliver.
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DucksBrains

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#119 DucksBrains
Member since 2007 • 1146 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Console gamers like simple easy flashy games that can be completed in a rental period.

These games sell best.

i dont see the confusion.

madsnakehhh

Yeah, because Zelda and Demon's Souls can be beaten in a couple of days, however Crysis will last you for years (since it's the only game they seem to talk), oh but guess what, it only last me a weekend.

Console gamers bring up Crysis far more often than PC gamers. Irony.

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tenaka2

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#120 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

True gaming is pc gaming, console gaming is for the casual masses. Nasty but true.

romans828_2002

Like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Solitaire, Zuma, Minesweeper? Those aren't for the casual masses? Please. True gaming is an appreciation for what all platforms deliver.

Console gaming is casual and flashly, get stalker on console.

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soulitane

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#121 soulitane
Member since 2010 • 15091 Posts

True gaming is pc gaming, console gaming is for the casual masses. Nasty but true.

tenaka2

If all games on consoles are casual then I don't care, I find them fun rather than trying to be h@rdcorz!

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PSdual_wielder

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#122 PSdual_wielder
Member since 2003 • 10646 Posts

I think 'consolization' is becoming a serious issue, but the term should be replaced by casualization instead. Console gaming last gen was amazing, its just that this gen everything is getting dumbed for the sake of accessibility.

But either way, I think the pc elitism is only justifiable to a small degree, but some people(especially in sw) get completely ridiculous with their rants. Some hermits think just because they have a decent pc they should be automatically regarded by everyone else as having divine power and authoritative. Not talking with any sense whatsoever and believe what they say are true and dimiss everyone else with differing opinions as idiots. They're just making fools of themselves.

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Vandalvideo

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#123 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
Aim assist? Boo hoo. I'm sure the games that have it give everyone it so the playing field is even. So, big flippin deal.AncientDozer
I don't really see how aim assist evens the playing field to be honest. Either way, skill is going to remain static. All you're doing is artifically changing the mode of input. All parties, no matter skill level, will still be using aim assist. More skilled players will be equally more skilled with aim assist as they were without it.

For instance. While the keyboard and mouse is certainly more accurate, can you get up and walk around and STILL USE it? No. You can lie down on your back or stomach and kind of use a keyboard and mouse but it isn't very comfortable and you lose a bit of your edge.

They actually make mobile keyboards which are glovelike and can fit on your hand as you walk around. They are less common, but really speaking in absolutes like this is unwarranted. You can indeed walk around with a keyboard like interface. Also, it is merely your opinion that keyboards are less comfy.

And that tower, brimming with power, it's certainly a beauty but it's a pain in the butt to move around. A console? You can put that thing anywhere in the house, change your mind, move it with very little discomfort.

Micro-atx cases have been around for how long now people? Seriously, this argument is dead on arrival. There are PC cases out there smaller than most consoles and just as portable with no limits on power.

Do you know what a pain in the butt it is to play a two player game on one PC? Most of you are probably two young to remember but I remember clearly playing mortal kombat on the computer with two people and one keyboard. I hated it.

Because localized multiplayer is so strong right now right?

I can go on if you want.

Please do.
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romans828_2002

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#124 romans828_2002
Member since 2003 • 1108 Posts

[QUOTE="romans828_2002"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

True gaming is pc gaming, console gaming is for the casual masses. Nasty but true.

tenaka2

Like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Solitaire, Zuma, Minesweeper? Those aren't for the casual masses? Please. True gaming is an appreciation for what all platforms deliver.

Console gaming is casual and flashly, get stalker on console.

See, I'd play this game with you, but no matter what game I bring up, it will be described as casual and flashy, not because it really is, but because it is on a console. Bull.
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XenogearsMaster

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#125 XenogearsMaster
Member since 2007 • 3175 Posts
Well, PC gaming is dying anyways so who cares really...
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SPYDER0416

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#126 SPYDER0416
Member since 2008 • 16736 Posts

Fanboyism in general is never justifiable but elitism takes it to a whole new level.

So yay, your $2000 rig you just makes your games look prettier then on my $200 gaming console that gets the same experience without needing a new carsd every 3 years to play the biggest new game without crashing.

An exaggeration of course but still, PC gaming is a far cry from the absolute top experience in gaming.

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N30F3N1X

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#127 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

Before Crysis 2 was announced, I had to explain on numerous occasions why Crysis 1 wasn't possible on consoles.

Regardless of how much the graphical quality was scaled, Crysis 1 stores the basic information of a level in its entirety, streaming additional information as needed; based on the players location. This enabled one of the largest scale experiences provided in a FPS, interactive range was limited by real factors such as ability to hit a target; rather than artificial range constraints. The result of this is high ram usage, a all or nothing scenario; making it impossible to fit Crysis scale onto consoles limited memory.

This was backed up by the head of Crytek also giving this explanation. He said if it was to work on consoles, they would have to change to a cell streaming based model. This however would change part of the Crysis 1 experience, the open environment. Cell streaming games load chunks of a level to keep memory usage to a minimum, but your interactivity is limited to within those loaded chunks.

This is a perfectly reasonable, logical and sourced explanation as to why Crysis 1 cannot be ported to consoles. Given that Crysis 2 was converted to a cell streaming mode, and its scale was reduced significantly, it's far to say this is a fact.

However, many times when I gave this explanation in the past; it was met with aggression. Console gamers didn't like the idea of PC being able to do something that they couldn't, which had nothing to with with GPU and CPU performance. Some rationalized that they could simply "optimize" it to work, suggesting that there is some programming trick to magically fit 1GB+ worth of information into consoles 256mb of ram; without losing anything. Others would attack the point of using these large environments, attempting to negate their value; and hence the meaning of consoles not being able to support them. Some even went as far as to say people like me were proven wrong by Crysis 2 coming to consoles, despite its memory management model being changed to cell streaming, supporting the original argument.

But what it always ended up falling down to, was I was elitist for giving; and supporting this explanation. Even though it is essentially a technical fact, something even the head of Crytek himself has backed up, I was a elitist PC gamer for just mentioning it.

It really isn't hard to be called a elitist in PC gaming, you just have to know what you are talking about; and for console gamers to not like what you are saying. If you want to find real elitism, look to the people who reject reality; in favour for what makes their platform look good.

AnnoyedDragon

All that needed to be said, has been said.

In a nutshell, PC gamers are seen as elitist because they put their knowledge at work in SW discussions. Knowledge that comes almost naturally with experience as a PC gamer, but doesn't as a console gamer. Therefore the ignorance and anger when people prove their ignorance and act like they are entitled to their own opinion despite the fact that it's obviously uninformed.

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Raymundo_Manuel

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#128 Raymundo_Manuel
Member since 2010 • 4641 Posts

Fanboyism in general is never justifiable but elitism takes it to a whole new level.

So yay, your $2000 rig you just makes your games look prettier then on my $200 gaming console that gets the same experience without needing a new carsd every 3 years to play the biggest new game without crashing.

An exaggeration of course but still, PC gaming is a far cry from the absolute top experience in gaming.

SPYDER0416

The only thing PCs have over consoles is graphics! :o

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N30F3N1X

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#129 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

Well, PC gaming is dying anyways so who cares really...XenogearsMaster

^This is the kind of ignorance I mentioned in my previous post.

PC gaming revenue went up 19% compared to 2009, so how exactly is it "dying"?

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N30F3N1X

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#131 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

I think 'consolization' is becoming a serious issue, but the term should be replaced by casualization instead. Console gaming last gen was amazing, its just that this gen everything is getting dumbed for the sake of accessibility.

But either way, I think the pc elitism is only justifiable to a small degree, but some people(especially in sw) get completely ridiculous with their rants. Some hermits think just because they have a decent pc they should be automatically regarded by everyone else as having divine power and authoritative. Not talking with any sense whatsoever and believe what they say are true and dimiss everyone else with differing opinions as idiots. They're just making fools of themselves.

PSdual_wielder

Please show us an example of that kind of attitude.

I can give you twice as much from the other side. I'll go ahead and preemptively mention "Can PCs do HD".

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GodofEmpires

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#132 GodofEmpires
Member since 2009 • 611 Posts
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="romans828_2002"] Like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Solitaire, Zuma, Minesweeper? Those aren't for the casual masses? Please. True gaming is an appreciation for what all platforms deliver.romans828_2002

Console gaming is casual and flashly, get stalker on console.

See, I'd play this game with you, but no matter what game I bring up, it will be described as casual and flashy, not because it really is, but because it is on a console. Bull.

Yeah. I don't get how games like Demon's Souls are considered casual. I agree that many console gamers buy casual games such as call of duty and only call of duty, but many console gamers aren't like that.
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Valiant_Rebel

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#133 Valiant_Rebel
Member since 2009 • 4197 Posts

No, it's not. No kind of elitism can be justified.

For a lot of cases, I believe "consolization" is the wrong word when describing an "altered" sequel to a game. Sometimes it can be, but not always. It's more like trying to appeal to a larger market by changing the features in the sequel from the original to fit their needs. This doesn't need to be a bad occurance. It can actually be beneficial for newcomers and previous fans alike (Assassin's Creed 1 to Assassin's Creed 2). They fixed a lot of issues with the original and made a better experience in the sequel.

However, it can also be hurtful to previous fans, which is what a lot people do not like (Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age to Dragon Age 2 [I don't mean to use only Bioware games]). From what I've read, Bioware removed features and changed the core game a little bit to appeal to people that didn't like the original. This in turn caused the original fans to reject the sequels because the sequel removed features (namely RPG-like features in this case) from the game altogether.

It can also do with removing platform features as well (in this case PC). As Ferret-Gamer said, "consolization" may deal with putting the console experience on PC, something PC gamers are not used to and do not like.

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GodofEmpires

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#134 GodofEmpires
Member since 2009 • 611 Posts

True gaming is pc gaming, console gaming is for the casual masses. Nasty but true.

tenaka2

Yeah, my mom has a PC and plays pretty much nothing but FarmVille and other FaceBook games. I have a PS3 as my main system of gaming and play games such as Killzone, Uncharted, Battlefield, and many others. She's a more "true" gamer than me, right? :roll:

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aroxx_ab

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#135 aroxx_ab
Member since 2005 • 13236 Posts

[QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

Fanboyism in general is never justifiable but elitism takes it to a whole new level.

So yay, your $2000 rig you just makes your games look prettier then on my $200 gaming console that gets the same experience without needing a new carsd every 3 years to play the biggest new game without crashing.

An exaggeration of course but still, PC gaming is a far cry from the absolute top experience in gaming.

Raymundo_Manuel

The only thing PCs have over consoles is graphics! :o

+Better controls

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Teuf_

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#136 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts

System Wars is not for discussing PC gamers, or whether you think they're "elitists" or whatever.